PDA

View Full Version : No Football or Rugby at Croke Park



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

gspain
08/02/2005, 9:51 AM
From today's Indo

It looks like the former presidents will scupper the motion on opening up Croke Park again.

Still what would you expect from a committee that contains Peter Quinn, Con Murphy, Pat Fanning, Sean McCague and Jack Boothman.


President's men may KO Rule 42 plea


WITH the deadline for the submission of motions for discussion at this year's GAA Congress only a day away, there are growing fears that proposals to change the rules regarding the use of Croke Park may not even make it onto the agenda.

Eleven counties were stunned when informed last Thursday that their motions on Rule 42 - which deals with the use of GAA property - were out of order. They were given until 5pm tomorrow to re-submit amended motions but they were not informed as to how precisely to tidy them up so that they meet the criteria set down by the vetting committee.

It led to a frantic weekend as officials from various counties consulted with each other in a desperate attempt to come up with the correct wording. Their efforts are ongoing and will continue right up to tomorrow's deadline, by which time all 11 counties are expected to present amended motions.

However, there is absolutely no guarantee that the new versions will be accepted by the Motions Committee, which is comprised of GAA president Sean Kelly, Director-General Liam Mulvihill plus former GAA presidents.

The high-powered group caused uproar last year when they ruled all motions relating to Rule 42 out of order and they could be poised to strike again unless counties manage to plot their way around the intricate technical details involved in framing a complicated motion.

Roscommon's Tommy Kenoy, a long time advocate of renting Croke Park for rugby and soccer, said that while counties were being given an opportunity to re-submit motions, the decision as to whether they were in order would again fall to the committee which had rejected them twice before.

"It's very frustrating," he said. "The fact of the matter is that 11 counties want to discuss Rule 42 but we're still not sure if it will even be on the agenda. We have been told that our motions, as drafted, are not in order but we're not being provided with alternative wording so all we can do is make amendments as we see fit and hope they pass the vetting committee.

"People outside the GAA - and indeed a lot inside it too - will be amazed that what should be a relatively simple task of getting a motion onto the Congress agenda is proving so complicated," he said.

Counties have been told that a change to Rule 42 also requires amendments to Rules 3, 4 and 5 which deal with the aims and objectives of the Association, plus Rules 43 and 44 which covers ownership of grounds. It's all highly complicated and has led to claims that the Motions Committee are deliberately introducing technicalities to prevent debate on the use of Croke Park.

Former Munster Council chairman, Noel Walsh, who has been to the forefront of the campaign to open up Croke Park was disgusted when a motion that had been passed by the Clare County Convention was marked out of order last week.

"It's absolutely crazy. Special Congress agreed last autumn that in cases where motions were deemed to be defective, they would be corrected at national level and resubmitted by the county involved. Instead of that, we're being told that our motion is out of order but are left to our own devices as to how to amend it. I contend that a decision of Special Congress is being subverted.

"The trouble is that whatever wording we come up with, it's open to interpretation and if the Motions Committee decide it's out of order then there will be no debate on Croke Park this year. That would be a PR disaster for the GAA as it's clear that the vast majority want it discussed.

"Isn't it amazing that it was possible to get Rule 42 on the agenda a few years ago and now we seem to be all tied up in rules and technicalities? It makes you wonder what's going on," said Walsh.

Walsh and Kenoy also questioned the speed with which counties were obliged to re-submit motions that were ruled out of order. Congress won't take place until mid-April but only motions submitted by 5pm tomorrow evening have any chance of making the agenda.

Laois and Cavan are other counties who are trying to redraft their motions ahead of the deadline.

Anthony Delaney, whose club Shanahoe have pushed the Rule 42 issue in Laois for several years, said that they would be making every effort to get the wording right but conceded that they were operating in a vacuum as they weren't being told what precisely would satisfy the Motions Committee. Niall Dolan, (Ramor Utd, Cavan), is also trying to get their motion in order but, like all the others, is unsure as to what the Motions Committee require.

"It would be very disappointing if there were no debate on Rule 42 this year either but there's a danger of that happening because there is no guarantee the amended motions will be accepted," he said.

Seán Kelly, who is in favour of amending Rule 42, has said that he is hopeful that counties will be able to correct the motions so that they pass the vetting committee but others are less optimistic.

Noel Walsh said: "The reality is that we don't know precisely how to proceed. We will do our best to get the motions right but it's not easy when you're not quite sure what was wrong with them in the first place. 11 counties have spoken on the issue - surely that should be enough to get on the Congress agenda. All this technical stuff means nothing to the ordinary GAA members. They have strong views for and against opening Croke Park but instead of having an intelligent debate on the matter, we're bogged down in procedures as to how to get it onto the Congress agenda. It makes no sense."

It would be a blow to Kelly's Presidency if, for the second successive year, a proposal on this issue failed to go before Congress.

He is due to step down at Congress 2006 so effectively this is his last real chance to address the Croke Park issue which was a central plank in his candidacy.

Kelly favours opening Croke Park but there is a growing volume from other forces who are intent on thwarting him.

SÓC
08/02/2005, 12:02 PM
No surprise really.

The GAA will break their own rules before they all 'Sacar' into Croker

ollie
08/02/2005, 12:12 PM
i think it is only a matter of time really before they allow other sports in. either the pressure from the people for it will grow or financially they will have to..

Éanna
08/02/2005, 2:32 PM
to hell with them. Why should Irish football go begging on its knees to these ignorant banjo-whacking rednecks.

Whatever about their justification for not allowing football on the basis of it not being an All-Ireland sport, they have no right to do so with rugby whatsoever. Shows them up for the bigots they are. the government should threaten to repossess croke park for the tax-payer who paid for it.

lopez
08/02/2005, 3:17 PM
to hell with them.
Damn right!

these ignorant banjo-whacking rednecks.
Sums them up fairly.

the government should threaten to repossess croke park for the tax-payer who paid for it.Here! here! :mad:

Macy
08/02/2005, 3:21 PM
the government should threaten to repossess croke park for the tax-payer who paid for it.
Exactly. No funding to any GAA club until they lift their sectarian ban.

Pat O' Banton
08/02/2005, 3:50 PM
Rather than being fired up about it like Lopez, Eanna et al I'm severely disappointed. The FAI have to go begging due to the state of Lansdowne and the fact that UEFA will not let us use the buckets again, which means a joke capacity and stopping many people from seeing their country play. Either that or the FAI will have to follow the well worn path to Holyhead and emigrate in order to play home matches, which when we have a superb, massive stadium standing empty (and running up debts) is nothing short of farcical.
I have to disagree with the redneck comments and say that the only bright side to the argument is that one third of the voting counties are prepared to put the motion forward, which shows that there is a groundswell of support at grass roots level for the plan, just hope that the dinosaurs at the top realise this sooner rather than later.



i think it is only a matter of time really before they allow other sports in. either the pressure from the people for it will grow or financially they will have to..

We've been saying this for years, nowadays I'm not so optimistic. What looks like happening is that the FAI and IRFU will have to pump millions into a stadium that could be better used developing youth structure, facilities at grounds around the country and improving the overall all lot for the Football/Rugby fan while the GAA will have to pump millions into servicing a debt on a stadium that could be better used developing youth structure, facilities at grounds around the country and improving the overall all lot for the GAA fan (and despite what some at higher GAA level may believe the two things are not mutually exclusive - indeed and whisper it some of the best GAA players greatly admire footballer and rugby and the players of these sports)

Éanna
08/02/2005, 3:55 PM
stopping many people from seeing their country play.
most of them don't deserve to anyway. They make 4 or 5 games a year, and sit in a pub supporting "their team" or spending a fortune travelling to England to see "their team" once or twice a year, and then sit in Landsdowne road unable to make any decent stab at an atmosphere because they haven't the first clue about being a proper football fan anyway. Serves them right. Maybe if they had spent more of their time and money supporting Irish football instead of filling Sky's pockets, the FAI would be in a position to do something better

Pat O' Banton
08/02/2005, 4:01 PM
most of them don't deserve to anyway. They make 4 or 5 games a year, and sit in a pub supporting "their team" or spending a fortune travelling to England to see "their team" once or twice a year, and then sit in Landsdowne road unable to make any decent stab at an atmosphere because they haven't the first clue about being a proper football fan anyway. Serves them right. Maybe if they had spent more of their time and money supporting Irish football instead of filling Sky's pockets, the FAI would be in a position to do something better

This is the FAI we're talking about here, do you think that these will be the people to lose out ? :eek:

lopez
08/02/2005, 4:02 PM
It is the height of stupidity - or bigotry - by the morons within the Grab All Association that they are taking this dog in the manger stand. Some people will say 'good luck to them. they built a lovely stadium etc. while the FAI blew their money on hookers in Warsaw.' That's cr*p.

Firstly, the GAA never paid a penny in wages to their players relying on the - ironic - notion of 'corinthianism' of 19C Muscular Christianity imported from Britain. One of the things that forced the GAA to set up - especially with regards to the 'Athletic' bit - was the previous discrimination against anyone who broke a sweat for a living: i.e. Lord Sh*teface of Ballyb*llocks was allowed in as he just sat on daddy's pile all day while his stable boy wasn't because he had an unfair advantage being a labourer.

Secondly, is the in-your-face discrimination. While the Irish in Britain have been working for years against discrimination we have our own bigots doing exactly that at home. Imagine the uproar if British councils put the boot into every attempt at the GAA playing the game (drinks licences, planning permission, turning down applications for playing on public fields as it is a 'foreign game.') And let's not forget the use of football grounds in England whenever the GAA thought about a spot of proselytising. The only good news is the undoubted disgust outside the Croke Park ivory tower within the GAA. Clubs and counties should take matters into their own hands and rent out their property.

Macy
08/02/2005, 4:05 PM
Rather than being fired up about it like Lopez, Eanna et al I'm severely disappointed. The FAI have to go begging due to the state of Lansdowne and the fact that UEFA will not let us use the buckets again, which means a joke capacity and stopping many people from seeing their country play. Either that or the FAI will have to follow the well worn path to Holyhead and emigrate in order to play home matches, which when we have a superb, massive stadium standing empty (and running up debts) is nothing short of farcical.
I think that's clouding the issue at this stage, and lets the GAA off the hook - the debate has been done nearly as much as the celtic are irish debate with regards to Bertie Bowl/eircom Park/No Government support for FAI stadium etc. The issue now is where now, and I hope the FAI shame them into it by moving games to Old Trafford/Anfield/Park Head.

cullenswood
08/02/2005, 4:09 PM
most of them don't deserve to anyway. They make 4 or 5 games a year, and sit in a pub supporting "their team" or spending a fortune travelling to England to see "their team" once or twice a year, and then sit in Landsdowne road unable to make any decent stab at an atmosphere because they haven't the first clue about being a proper football fan anyway. Serves them right. Maybe if they had spent more of their time and money supporting Irish football instead of filling Sky's pockets, the FAI would be in a position to do something better

Ah not more of this "I'm a real fan cos I've been to a million Cork City games" bullsh1t snobbery again

Pat O' Banton
08/02/2005, 4:10 PM
I think that's clouding the issue at this stage, and lets the GAA off the hook - the debate has been done nearly as much as the celtic are irish debate with regards to Bertie Bowl/eircom Park/No Government support for FAI stadium etc. The issue now is where now, and I hope the FAI shame them into it by moving games to Old Trafford/Anfield/Park Head.

Macy, I'm not disagreeing with yous about use if Croke Park for non GAA sports. It is an inevitable consequence of the GAA head in the sand mentality that the FAI will either have to play in front of 22,000 at Lansdowne or move to Ingerland, don't see how this either clouds the issue or lets the GAA of the hook.

Pat O' Banton
08/02/2005, 4:21 PM
Ballyb*llocks

I remember going through there one day, think I was on my way back from Ballynawestbrit ;) :D

Duncan Gardner
08/02/2005, 6:52 PM
What the boy O'Banton said really.

It'll be interesting to see the GAA response to a formal invitation to share NI's proposed new super stadium, Pairc na Long Kesh :p

SÓC
08/02/2005, 7:07 PM
check out Article 40.3.2 of Bunreacht na hEireann for starters...

Typical Kerry salmon of knowledge:D

They cant stop giving the boys money, think of the upraor from Frank Murphy and Co

Éanna
08/02/2005, 8:09 PM
Ah not more of this "I'm a real fan cos I've been to a million Cork City games" bullsh1t snobbery again
Nothing to do with City, and nothing to do with snobbery- the simple fact is that these people plough their money into foreign leagues (mainly England and Scotland) and expect the FAI to carry on regardless. If I'm wrong, why didn't you disagree with me, or offer another reason, instead of just having a go at me?


If we ever wanted to fill Croker,we'd have to inc.Celtic fans,'bar-stoolers',EPL/GAA/rugby fans & even :rolleyes: ...... :o the ManUre brigade,FFS!
Dont think there are 80k EL fans these days who are regulars,even presuming they'd all travel to Drumcondra!
Absolutely true. But thats not the main point I was making. The point I was making was that if every barstool-dweller who sits in a pub on a saturday watching "his" team was involved in Irish football at any level- from schoolboys up to the eircom League- then the footballl lobby would be much stronger, and would have some chance of competing with the GAA for all the money that seems to be floating around. Its all well and good blaming the government (who I can't stand), the GAA(who I despise) and the FAI(do I even need to start)- but the simple fact is that people can't expect to just turn up for 90mins a few times a year, and have everything magically run like clockwork in the background.

gspain
08/02/2005, 9:19 PM
Lansdowne is not full of barstoolers it is full of people who play and work in football but most do not support our national league. We have far far more people playing football in this country than any other sport.

Now the real argument for opening Croke Park is the hundreds of millions of euro and hundreds of jobs that this country will lose die to home football and rugby games played in England. The England rugby game in 2003 was worth €90 million to the economy with no vacant hotel bed down to Portlaoise.

Some of the backswoodsmen are too stupid to understand the consequences but the smart evil bigots like must be told in no uncertain terms by the government that their funding is going to be curtailed if they don't open up the stadium. Bertie has had the balls to stand up to the provos recently so maybe he'll stand up to the GAA now and stop bankrolling Croke Park.

If we do have to go to England then from a footballing sense it won't be the end of the world.

pete
08/02/2005, 9:24 PM
I've had enough of reading about the GAA edging towards a change only for the conservative sector to raise their heads to scupper again :rolleyes:

I really don't car what the GAA do with Croke Park as its their own decision but i do object to the government giving them open cheques qith no conditions. Sure the govt threatened the FAI with bllocking their funding for annual expenses if they didn't advertise an internal position!!! Hows about threatening the GAA funding if not drop sectarian ban???

wexfordclockend
10/02/2005, 2:08 PM
Whilst I think the Rugby & Soccer teams should be playing at Croker while Lansdowne is rebuilt I have major reservations regarding both FAI & IRFU.

I even get english people slaging the GAA off for this issue but I don't see Twickenham having England games / FA cup / League cup finals there while Wembley is rebulit?

These two (FAI & IRFU) have failed to invest in stadia over the decades not just Dalymount/Lansdowne but most provinical gounds as well for example Munster can only play in front of 17,000 fans in big matches.

In fact of all the money from decades world cups / 6 nations / Euros & friendly internationals none appears to have been put aside /invested for upgading stadia.

Go to the goverment & tell them you have X amount of cash & they will give you more to finish the job. Thats what the GAA does!

I know there are people on here who hate the GAA & its sports, (why ask to use its stadium then?) fair enough but if the FAI / IRFU was run the same way there would be a decent stadium built by now!

Regarding the GAA I am one of the growing numbers that would perfer Hurling to split from Gaelic Football / GAA .

I do not see Hurling surviving & expanding in those counties where football is dominant. In 4 or 5 counties Hurling is on its deathbed.

Macy
10/02/2005, 4:07 PM
I even get english people slaging the GAA off for this issue but I don't see Twickenham having England games / FA cup / League cup finals there while Wembley is rebulit?
It's not in the RFU rule book that they can't though. They failed to reach agreement for football - a big difference imo.

gspain
10/02/2005, 5:10 PM
Whilst I think the Rugby & Soccer teams should be playing at Croker while Lansdowne is rebuilt I have major reservations regarding both FAI & IRFU.

I even get english people slaging the GAA off for this issue but I don't see Twickenham having England games / FA cup / League cup finals there while Wembley is rebulit?

These two (FAI & IRFU) have failed to invest in stadia over the decades not just Dalymount/Lansdowne but most provinical gounds as well for example Munster can only play in front of 17,000 fans in big matches.

In fact of all the money from decades world cups / 6 nations / Euros & friendly internationals none appears to have been put aside /invested for upgading stadia.

Go to the goverment & tell them you have X amount of cash & they will give you more to finish the job. Thats what the GAA does!

I know there are people on here who hate the GAA & its sports, (why ask to use its stadium then?) fair enough but if the FAI / IRFU was run the same way there would be a decent stadium built by now!

Regarding the GAA I am one of the growing numbers that would perfer Hurling to split from Gaelic Football / GAA .

I do not see Hurling surviving & expanding in those counties where football is dominant. In 4 or 5 counties Hurling is on its deathbed.

The F.A.I. did try to build a stadium. The government forced them to stop and row in behind Abbottstown. the rest is history.

Twickenham is available if the English FA want it. Wales played home rugby Internationals at Wembley and the FA Cup Final is played at a rugby ground. No other "sporting" organisation refuses to make it's facilities available to other sports. However no other "sporting" organisation has policies on the "struggle for national liberation".

The GAA are entitled to do what they like with their facilities however they should not be entitled to continue to receive public money considering the hundreds of millions that will be lost to the exchequer if our home football and rugby games are played in Britain.

Macy
11/02/2005, 9:17 AM
If you call what they managed to do 'trying to build a stadium', then I too should point out that I tried to build a stadium once. Well, I drew a picture of one when I was about 9. But that's as good as the FAI managed, and I didn't even get to lie to everyone and say all the seats were sold and my credit card debt cleared...
Conor, the lies about seat sales only started when the FAI were forced into trying to go it alone with no Government funding at all, whilst at the same time the promises of millions for rowing in behind Abbotstown. If you want to start talking about stadium lies, where do you want me to start on FF?

Donal81
15/02/2005, 5:37 PM
The FAI have never seriously attempted to build their own stadium. They approached the government in the same pathetic, mismanaged, amateur fashion that they always handle things. Bertie may well have done a number on them with Abbotstown - what were they expecting, honesty? - but that was only a number of years ago. Considering the increase both in the interest in Irish soccer and the increase in the profile of soccer in general, they never managed to make one concrete proposal and realise the benefits of having their own stadium on their balance sheet. Idiots.

As for Croke Park, we'd be doing well to remember that it's not a national stadium and never has been. It's a GAA stadium, not an Olympic Stadium or a Millenium Stadium for general use. While the GAA received much State-funding, so do so many sporting organisations and it doesn't allow the tax payer to determine how they operate. I love soccer and GAA and would love to see soccer in Croker but I don't think referring to the GAA as rednecks and banging on about how sectarian they are will change their mind.

It's their stadium, for better or worse, and the sooner people realise this, the better. If we want to see Ireland and France in Croker, we better accept where they're coming from. Shouting abuse at them won't help anything.

The lack of debate in the GAA is pathetic for an organisation which prides itself on its grassroots. The organisation clearly wants to talk about it. How a small group can prevent this is beyond me.

gspain
15/02/2005, 11:23 PM
The FAI have never seriously attempted to build their own stadium. They approached the government in the same pathetic, mismanaged, amateur fashion that they always handle things. Bertie may well have done a number on them with Abbotstown - what were they expecting, honesty? - but that was only a number of years ago. Considering the increase both in the interest in Irish soccer and the increase in the profile of soccer in general, they never managed to make one concrete proposal and realise the benefits of having their own stadium on their balance sheet. Idiots.

As for Croke Park, we'd be doing well to remember that it's not a national stadium and never has been. It's a GAA stadium, not an Olympic Stadium or a Millenium Stadium for general use. While the GAA received much State-funding, so do so many sporting organisations and it doesn't allow the tax payer to determine how they operate. I love soccer and GAA and would love to see soccer in Croker but I don't think referring to the GAA as rednecks and banging on about how sectarian they are will change their mind.

It's their stadium, for better or worse, and the sooner people realise this, the better. If we want to see Ireland and France in Croker, we better accept where they're coming from. Shouting abuse at them won't help anything.

The lack of debate in the GAA is pathetic for an organisation which prides itself on its grassroots. The organisation clearly wants to talk about it. How a small group can prevent this is beyond me.

So we should stay silent about sectarianism and doff our caps and please Mr Bigot can we use your stadium.

There is a sectarian element in the GAA. Not the majority but they hijack the GAA for political and sectarian purposes.

Judging by the smiles tonight Sean Kelly and Bertie have thwarted the bigots tonight but they'll be waiting in the long grass come congress.

deadman
16/02/2005, 12:18 AM
i hear - good authority here - THE motion is through

but i don't think even a motion about an all ireland side is practically on any level.

no need to start another discussion on this - i'm sure there's plenty of that in the foot.ie annals somewhere -

and the IFA would only joke, as they have done in the past, that of course they'd welcome the FAI back with open arms if they wanted to "return" under the control of the IFA

Superhoops
16/02/2005, 12:44 AM
It's their stadium, for better or worse, and the sooner people realise this, the better. If we want to see Ireland and France in Croker, we better accept where they're coming from. Shouting abuse at them won't help anything.
Even if the GAA agree to open up CP, there are still likely to be restrictions on playing soccer and rugby games there. Rugby may not be too bad as it is usually played weekends but with many soccer internationals being played midweek (France for example) there are other practical reasons which may prevent such games taking place:
- planning permission did not include provision for midweek evening fixtures
- the local residents are likelty to object as such games would breach the terms of the agreement reached with them.
- the Garda will probably object because of traffic congestion, especially with the congestion in that area due to the Port Tunnel work and the lack of any parking provisions. On big GAA days, there are usually some parking facilities at Clonliffe College, I don't believe these are likely to be available, especially in college term.
- are there flloodlights in CP? Not an insurmountable problem but no doubt there will be a debate as to who pays.

So, not entirely in the hands of GAA.

Donal81
16/02/2005, 9:11 AM
So we should stay silent about sectarianism and doff our caps and please Mr Bigot can we use your stadium.

There is a sectarian element in the GAA. Not the majority but they hijack the GAA for political and sectarian purposes.

There may well be a sectarian element in the GAA but that doesn't mean the FAI has a right to Croke Park. Referring to the GAA as Mr Bigot is exactly what I'm talking about.

gspain
16/02/2005, 9:33 AM
There may well be a sectarian element in the GAA but that doesn't mean the FAI has a right to Croke Park. Referring to the GAA as Mr Bigot is exactly what I'm talking about.

The F.A.I. have no rights to Croke Park. I've never argued that. The taxpayer has a right to se epublic money spent properly and in future particularly if hundreds of millions of euro and hundreds of jobs are lost to this economy.

It is not just a sectarian element in the GAA it is rules and policies of the organisation.

However we should no stay silent about just so we can use their grounds.

Is it acceptable that 11 yearolds play for the Gerard and Martin Harte Memorial Cup? - 2 IRA members killed on Active service in 1988. Can you imagine the outcry if 11 yearolds were playing football for the Billy Wright memorial Cup in Portadown?

Is it acceptable the the official policy of the GAA is still "To Support the struggle for national liberation"

Is it acceptable that the GAA's main trophy is used by the Tyrone captain Peter Canavan in a photo op with former IRA man Joe Cahill? Not to mind he was happy to bring the cup to Belfast but not to an Omagh secondary school.

Is it acceptable that the then Tyrone captain Sean Teague and the same Peter Canavan appear in GAA kit in SF/IRA election literature using the GAA logo and not a word said in public by the GAA on the incident.

Is it acceptable that Casement Park is opened up for IRA rallies?

I could go on.

There will always be a sectarian element in the GAA. There is a sectarian and racist element in the crowd at Lansdowne Road too but the F.A.I. for all their faults do not have any sectarian or racist policies.

gspain
16/02/2005, 10:21 AM
I'm not referring to specific instances although I've ehard the odd throwaway remark in my time.

Simply there is a sectarian element in society and a racist element - very obvious in the treatment of foreigners. I witnessed a crowd shout racist abuse at 2 young Chinese girls who tried to stop a truck driver do a runner after damaging their car. Most of the 20 onlookers took up the abuse once one person told them they should go back to their own country. I think we're more tolerant than Britain or france but there is still a an undercurrent of bigotry among a certain section.

Now my point is no doubt some of this element go to Lansdowne road. It is not obvious at Lansdowne road. I'm sure it is not obvious at Croke Park.

The difference is the F.A.I. do not have any sectarian or racist policies and the GAA do have sectarian policies. It should be about sport.


Begrudgingly I would accept people are guilty of 'sectarian'views @ LR......that'd be many of the crowd(most Celtic fans & Their detractors,who seem to dislike them with equal zeal!),but overt racism @ LR......never?

Unless you're counting a substantial portion of the crowd,25+,who can remember the disgusting behaviour of the Tans,a decade ago yesterday.....a wonder that no-one was killed,IMO.

As for the GAA,as Lopez(in ano.thread) & I said before,the GAA will be inevitably tied to the history of a good while yet.You have to view the GAA,in the context of which it's existed,esp.in the osc........it may not appear or seem very open-minded.However,consider the enviroment under which it's operated & that a no.of its' member have been taken out by Crown forces & you can see some reason for their relative paranoia.

I dont generally agree with this,but ultimately,instead of us all sniping on here,we should start up an online petition & publicise this to the national Irish media!I know of 1-2 sympathetic ears,who could help set the ball in motion............

joey B
16/02/2005, 10:28 AM
It is pure bigotry, the GAA had no problem letting Muhammed ALI box there.

lopez
16/02/2005, 11:05 AM
...I witnessed a crowd shout racist abuse at 2 young Chinese girls who tried to stop a truck driver do a runner after damaging their car. Most of the 20 onlookers took up the abuse once one person told them they should go back to their own country. I think we're more tolerant than Britain or france but there is still a an undercurrent of bigotry among a certain section...With the exception outside the George & Dragon on some scummy estate in Oldham or Bradford etc., I'd have to say I can't imagine that this incident would happen in Britain. Not because there are no racists but that the first one would be given dirty looks by the others.

gspain
16/02/2005, 12:57 PM
With the exception outside the George & Dragon on some scummy estate in Oldham or Bradford etc., I'd have to say I can't imagine that this incident would happen in Britain. Not because there are no racists but that the first one would be given dirty looks by the others.

This happened just up form Doyle's Corner on either the first Tuesday in February or March last year. Obviously a respectable area. I called the guards to sort out the traffic dispute which they did in a fair and evenhanded manner as expected. The truck driver wasn't racist but did try and avoid responsibility although I heard afterwards that truck drivers can side swipe a car and not even know it.

It was a woman in her 60's that made the initial comment and a few of varying ages followed her.

I imagine such incidents are rare.

Éanna
16/02/2005, 1:38 PM
It is pure bigotry, the GAA had no problem letting Muhammed ALI box there.
Is boxing a 32-county sport? Don't the GAA say that they only want 32 county sports in their grounds? If they were to allow rugby and not football, that would be fine by me, but they're just hypocrites right now

footballplease
16/02/2005, 3:41 PM
Probably jumping the gun, but if we do get to play the two big autumn games at Croker, we may have a problem with the decider against the swiss scum as the the game is scheduled for a Wed night. :eek:

gspain
16/02/2005, 4:13 PM
Probably jumping the gun, but if we do get to play the two big autumn games at Croker, we may have a problem with the decider against the swiss scum as the the game is scheduled for a Wed night. :eek:

France is also scheduled for a wednesday night. Floodlights aren't really an issue - we can play on a wednesday afternoon - did that often enough in the 80's and early 90's.

I cannot see any of the current games being moved even IF Croke Park is opened up and that is a huge IF. Sean Kelly has won one battle with the backwoodsmen but not the war. There are some very capable guys in the GAA totally opposed to opening Croke Park and they will do what they must to scupper this.

The GAA may only open Croke Park on trial basis while Lansdowne is being redeveloped - gets them off the hook with the government re the money lost to the economy and may be allowed by a simple majority rather than 2/3rds majority.

Anyway I would be reluctant to play France in a new stadium. Lansdowne for all its faults is our home ground and we are very strong there in familiar surroundings. Croke Park is not ideal for football as the pitch is far too big hence the crowd will be further away. I would rather stay in Lansdowne for France and Switzerland and take full advantage of home advantage to qualify for Germany. I know this is selfish to the extent that I will have a ticket and 45,000 fans would get tickets if it was moved. However we need every advantage for these games.

While Lansdowne is being redeveloped we should play in Croke Park if it is available.

green army
16/02/2005, 4:38 PM
i dont know if its true or not but i heard that the stands in croke park are too steep and contraviene ufea regulations. does anyone know if its true or not. i think it could b bullsiht.

anto1208
16/02/2005, 6:32 PM
simple fact is the gaa are a bunch of narow minded rasists , simple as that .
its nothing to do with foreign games its english games they dont want , if i can see american football being played in a gaa ground then why not rugby or football .

stuff about the stand is rubbish uefa have said that the second its opened they want to hold the champs league final there

mypost
17/02/2005, 4:06 AM
As for Croke Park, It's a GAA stadium, not an Olympic Stadium or a Millenium Stadium for general use. While the GAA received much State-funding, so do so many sporting organisations and it doesn't allow the tax payer to determine how they operate. I love soccer and GAA and would love to see soccer in Croker but I don't think referring to the GAA as rednecks and banging on about how sectarian they are will change their mind.

It's their stadium, for better or worse, and the sooner people realise this, the better. If we want to see Ireland and France in Croker, we better accept where they're coming from. Shouting abuse at them won't help anything.

The lack of debate in the GAA is pathetic for an organisation which prides itself on its grassroots. The organisation clearly wants to talk about it. How a small group can prevent this is beyond me.

No, it isn't a GAA stadium, it's the Irish people's stadium. We, Irish taxpayers funded it, so we should have a say about who uses it.

Incompetent O' Donoghue, was on TV3 News last night, saying that the decision to have a debate on Rule 42 was great for the "democracy" of the GAA. Sorry, but you don't put the words "GAA" and "democracy" in the same sentence. They don't know what it means! This Communist-run organisation showed their contempt for democracy last year, by dismissing all the proposed motions on Rule 42 on technicalities. They have resisted all attempts to change their precious rule in the past, no matter what that they stand to benefit from a change in their policy. It can only be made at their annual shindig every April, when it suits them, not the country. That ain't democracy. This issue doesn't need a debate at all, the stadium should be opened up immediately and unconditionally to other sports, in the national interest.

If it is changed this year, it will be impossible for Ireland to play rugby and football games without floodlights until 2006 at the earliest, at the world's most famous 3-sided stadium. With the rugby team having finished their 6 nations campaign, and Ireland's WC games against France, and Switzerland to be played on Wednesdays, games will have to remain at Lansdowne for now, unless the FAI think that they can fill Croker with 2pm kick-offs on working weekdays. Unlikely!!

gspain
17/02/2005, 8:55 AM
Unfortunately the government handed over public money to the gAA without any strings attached so it is their stadium. They can do what they like with it.

However if the bigots are allowed to win in the GAA they should be aware of the consequences and this should be no future government funding if they have the guts to stand up to them. I do think it was significant that Bertie Ahern was on tv with Sean Kelly on Tuesday night and hardly a coincidence.

Furthermore if businesses in this country (and Dublin in particular but many towns all the way to Dundalk, Portlaoise and Wicklow) are to lose hundreds of millions of euro then the organisations that sponsor the GAA must be held to account. What is Diageo's policy on the "struggle for national liberation". how do the Bank of Ireland feel about 11 yearolds playing for a cup named after 2 terrorists killed on "active service"?

Note one argument put forward is that there is more money been given to Lansdowne than the €150 million+ the GAA got. This is correct however the government will own a stake in Lansdowne and can obviously influence what is played there. The pitch will be big enough for GAA etc. Of course that won't be necessary for the government to intervene because the IRFU and F.A.I. like every other non sectarian sporting organisation on this planet would gladly offer the facilities to other sports for a fair rent if they were not needed at the time.

pete
17/02/2005, 9:48 AM
IMO the GAA have lost their chance. If i'd "opened" Croke Park to foreign sports "who are a domestic threat" before the FAI/IRFU/Govt got their act together for the redeveloped Lansdowne they'd have a lot of control over rugby & football here + would have their cut from at least 10 internationals a season.

Just opening the ground while lansdowne redeveloped actually helps the FAI/IRFU more.

Eire06
17/02/2005, 10:10 AM
Apparantly one of the biggest problems for people against opening Croker is that the don't want God save the Queen played there and the thought of a union Jack flying over croker is just wrong....

But would it not have been there at the special Olympics, was the anthem played there, if an english participant won it prob was... Anyone know??

tiktok
17/02/2005, 10:35 AM
But would it not have been there at the special Olympics, was the anthem played there, if an english participant won it prob was... Anyone know??

Yeah, there definitely would have been, which is why I don't really get the argument. Sure if we ever play another Irish Rugby International up North it'll be God Save the Queen and Ireland's call played.

drummerboy
17/02/2005, 10:37 AM
The motion will need a two-thirds majority to be passed. This is highly unlikely. Perhaps if it was a simple majority it would be passed but it is not. So it will be put to bed for another year.

boc123
17/02/2005, 11:07 AM
Will a lot of people on this forum refuse to go to the matches in Croke Park if it is opened up to soccer due to the fact that a lot of people think the GAA is so backward/evil etc..????? or will principals go out the window at that stage???



BTW Conor74, i'd agree with all the points made in your last post.

dublinred
17/02/2005, 11:35 AM
Relax, Croke park will be opened if the price is right the govt won't let home internationals go out of Ireland and will cut a deal with the GAA before the big vote.

Eire06
17/02/2005, 11:54 AM
Yeah, there definitely would have been, which is why I don't really get the argument. Sure if we ever play another Irish Rugby International up North it'll be God Save the Queen and Ireland's call played.

Ya but thats not in Croke park...

I know a lot of people that would take great offence in God save the queen being played there and theyre reason is that they are still bitter about Bloody Sunday and it would be disrespectful the memory of the people who were killed by the black and tans

tiktok
17/02/2005, 12:07 PM
I know a lot of people that would take great offence in God save the queen being played there and theyre reason is that they are still bitter about Bloody Sunday and it would be disrespectful the memory of the people who were killed by the black and tans

...and I'm sure there are English people who had friends and relatives killed by the IRA who don't like hearing ambhran na bhfiann played at Twickenham, but like those in the GAA they'll have to put that to one side.

Eire06
17/02/2005, 12:23 PM
...and I'm sure there are English people who had friends and relatives killed by the IRA who don't like hearing ambhran na bhfiann played at Twickenham, but like those in the GAA they'll have to put that to one side.

Yes but they were murdered in Croke Park...

Don't get me wrong I think the GAA have no right to say no to opening to the soccer and rugby teams because they seem to pick and choose as they please who can and can't play there which is unfair.. US, American Football, Special Olymipcs ect... ect...
If they just kept it to themselves then maybe they would have a right but thats another story...

I do think that we should stick to Lansdowne because were having a good run of things there at the moment and why change a good thing.. Its our home ground..

But if its a choice between Croker and England\Scotland, then they have to open it...

Schumi
17/02/2005, 12:47 PM
will principals go out the window at that stage?
No need to resort to murder.