Rugby 2016

[SkStu]

Jees Stu take a chill - 'tis only the internet.

Meh, maybe so but it is still pretty frustrating to have those sources swatted away as not good enough to prove a fairly passive comment about Healy. Plus I think you are taking a more aggressive tone from the comment you highlighted than was intended.

[Charlie Darwin]

Jees Stu take a chill - 'tis only the internet.

Lets just agree that McGrath should have possibly made the plane , Kilcoyne & Cronin should fight for the No. 1 spot in Japan if and when he does get a call and DJ Proper Church should remain on the decks for the summer hols.

I do concede that Healy would have been in the conversation with some pundits but realistically for reason's I've mentioned previously he was never really in a position to win a spot imo. OTT to say he wasn't touted alright.
You'd imagine Healy, and a few others like Earls and Zebo, will go to Japan because they'll need to be ready in case they're called in as injury cover in NZ.

[BonnieShels]

Munster truly outclassed in that second half. however I felt Sarries were lucky to get away with not having another man in the bin for a variety of reasons. Poite let them go a lot closer to the edge.

Bleyendaal's miss was the moment the game was lost. The difference that Murray makes is incalculable.

Hopefully Leinster do the business tomorrow.

[BonnieShels]

Brutal first half in Lyon.

Hopefully that last few minutes of the first half is a sign of things to come for the second half.

[BonnieShels]

Leinster doing the hard part and giving it away. Second half was a classic though...

Hopefully Lopez misses this though...

[BonnieShels]

Probably a good time as any to just call this "The Rugby Thread"?

---

RWC2019 draw tomorrow.

I'm hoping for Argentina in the group and whatever means we don't meet NZ until the SF at least. After that I couldn't give a monkeys.

Still don't get why people don't want NZ in their group. That game is a freebie. You can't play them again until the final if it comes to that. I'd take 5th in the seedings and NZ in my group tbh.

Anyone planning on a trip over?

[Real ale Madrid]

Probably a good time as any to just call this "The Rugby Thread"?

---

RWC2019 draw tomorrow.

I'm hoping for Argentina in the group and whatever means we don't meet NZ until the SF at least. After that I couldn't give a monkeys.

Still don't get why people don't want NZ in their group. That game is a freebie. You can't play them again until the final if it comes to that. I'd take 5th in the seedings and NZ in my group tbh.

Anyone planning on a trip over?

Irish rugby fans talking about the RWC in the context of the final is pretty laughable given we have never won a RWC knock-out game......EVER!

I'd love Ireland to be involved in the first match against Japan, but I just hope the draw is even sided and not lopsided like last time with Eng / Wal / Aus in same group, which, while great craic to see England knocked out, took from the tournament slightly imo. Even worse to have the 4 Southern Hemisphere teams in the SF, although its hard to see SA recover their form in time to make an impression in 2019.

Best Case scenario - Ireland , Scotland, Goergia
Worst Case scenario - Ireland, Wales, Argentina.

[BonnieShels]

Irish rugby fans talking about the RWC in the context of the final is pretty laughable given we have never won a RWC knock-out game......EVER!

I'd love Ireland to be involved in the first match against Japan, but I just hope the draw is even sided and not lopsided like last time with Eng / Wal / Aus in same group, which, while great craic to see England knocked out, took from the tournament slightly imo. Even worse to have the 4 Southern Hemisphere teams in the SF, although its hard to see SA recover their form in time to make an impression in 2019.

Best Case scenario - Ireland , Scotland, Goergia
Worst Case scenario - Ireland, Wales, Argentina.

I wasn't talking about us getting to a final. I was just talking about how people seem to think that getting NZ in their group is a bad thing. I beg to differ.

[BonnieShels]

I love me a live draw. And here it is:

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/pooldraw

[Real ale Madrid]

There is a touch of the Sepp Blatter about Bill Beaumount isn't there.

[BonnieShels]

Not at all.

Japan in Pool A

[Real ale Madrid]

Looks wise he does a bit.

Anyway - Ocenaia 2 - probably Samoa - Pool C the one to avoid from that perspective.

[BonnieShels]

Pool A looking tasty

[Real ale Madrid]

Looks wise he does a bit.

Anyway - Ocenaia 2 - probably Samoa - Pool C the one to avoid from that perspective.

Throw Argentina in there now as well. Tough.

[Real ale Madrid]

Throw Argentina in there now as well. Tough.

And France! Yikes.

[BonnieShels]

Pool C looks like a ballache. We're totally going into that one.

[BonnieShels]

reland
Scotland
Japan
Europe 1
Play-off winne

[BonnieShels]

Pool A
Ireland
Scotland
Japan
Europe 1
Play-off winner

Pool B
New Zealand
South Africa
Italy
Africa 1
Repechage winner

Pool C
England
France
Argentina
Americas 1
Oceania 2

Pool D
Australia
Wales
Georgia
Oceania 1
Americas 2

[BonnieShels]

Unfortunately it's NZ or SA in the QF. BALLS!

[Real ale Madrid]

Beat Scotland, Japan and South Africa to get to a semi final - we may as well pack up if we can't do that.

[BonnieShels]

Assuming the SA we play in 2019 is the on that's around now. Never underestimate our ability to f*** it up.

[Real ale Madrid]

Assuming the SA we play in 2019 is the on that's around now. Never underestimate our ability to f*** it up.

If we could play Scotland and Japan first and well rested going into a QF against SA then we really won't get a better chance handed to us than this.

Look at England's draw on the other hand - games against Samoa - Argentina and then France - then Wales or Australia in the QF - they will be well mangled by then.

This is a brilliant draw for us when you look at the the other options.

[nigel-harps1954]

Best chance Ireland will ever have in my opinion. That's a really superb draw in so many ways.

[BonnieShels]

If we could play Scotland and Japan first and well rested going into a QF against SA then we really won't get a better chance handed to us than this.

Look at England's draw on the other hand - games against Samoa - Argentina and then France - then Wales or Australia in the QF - they will be well mangled by then.

This is a brilliant draw for us when you look at the the other options.
If it's laid out with Japan and Scotland first as you say.

We'll have Japan in the opening game now though won't we?

[Real ale Madrid]

Current Pacific tournament standings with 2 games each remaining.

Fiji 8 pts - OC1
Samoa 4 pts - OC 2
Tonga - 1pts - P/off v Eur 3

If you are Samoa - you surely throw the remaining 2 games and finish bottom of that group and take your chances against Spain or Russia in the play-off knowing that you play Ire-Scot-Jap-Rom instead of Eng-Arg-Fra-USA in the tournament. Samoa on thier day give Japan and Scotland a good game - whereas they have no chance v France or Argentina.

[Real ale Madrid]

If it's laid out with Japan and Scotland first as you say.

We'll have Japan in the opening game now though won't we?

I reckon they put Japan in against the Play-off winner to open the tournament - Try and get them a win to start the tournament. Means our opening game will be against Scotland or Romania. That's a wild guess on my part, but would you not want the hosts to do well?

[BonnieShels]

I reckon they put Japan in against the Play-off winner to open the tournament - Try and get them a win to start the tournament. Means our opening game will be against Scotland or Romania. That's a wild guess on my part, but would you not want the hosts to do well?

You'd think but then this is uncharted territory for a host.

My thinking is that the top seed was nailed on for the audience/spectacle. We'll give that. Scotland won't. I've seen it said (on IRFU FB) we're playing Japan in Tokyo and Scotland in Osaka. But I don't know where that's coming from!

[Real ale Madrid]

My thinking is that the top seed was nailed on for the audience/spectacle.

Perhaps - but I'm thinking the whole spectacle of the opening ceremony will be enough and people will want to see Japan do well. The Romantic in me would love to have us opening the tournament in 2019 and 2023 (as hosts :) )

[BonnieShels]

You could be right. I would, hate to be in the opening game tbh. Cos I want to actually go to all of our games without breaking my inconsiderable bank.

[Real ale Madrid]

You could be right. I would, hate to be in the opening game tbh. Cos I want to actually go to all of our games without breaking my inconsiderable bank.

Would love to visit Japan - will get there eventually.
http://www.japancampers.com/

[BonnieShels]

Just go.

[Real ale Madrid]

Only another 16 odd years until dependents become independant, but on the countdown!

[BonnieShels]

Quitter

[BonnieShels]

Bid in for 2023

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/0601/879625-ireland-bid/

Let's do this!

[OwlsFan]

Fine margins again in the Lions. First try for NZ was from a forward pass (freeze frame it from where the pass was made and then caught). O'Mahoney asked the ref to review and he ignored him. Couple infringements in the scrum also led to other tries. Scrum far from the dominant set piece the Sky commentators thought it would be - hasn't been all tour. Not optimistic as it is usually the first game that NZ are caught cold. Sky commentators thought NZ place kicking would be weak and Lions (Farrell) stronger. Of course it went the other way - suffering from George Hamiltonitis.

[osarusan]

Fine margins again in the Lions. First try for NZ was from a forward pass (freeze frame it from where the pass was made and then caught). O'Mahoney asked the ref to review and he ignored him.
That's not the rule though.

The rule is based on the passing motion itself, not the location of the pass compared to the catch.

'Backwards out of the hands' is the term commonly used.

[DannyInvincible]

That's not the rule though.

The rule is based on the passing motion itself, not the location of the pass compared to the catch.

'Backwards out of the hands' is the term commonly used.

I often wondered why there was a focus on the passing motion (which can be a bit more difficult to gauge objectively) as opposed to the final destination of the pass relative to its point of origin (which would be much easier to measure), but then it was pointed out to me that not all passes will of course be caught. For example, a passer may throw the ball back to a team-mate, who may fail to catch it, resulting in the ball bouncing on the ground and potentially forward to a point on the pitch that is ahead of the line from where the pass was originally thrown.

If the rule prevented a team-mate receiving or collecting a pass that has gone forward from the point of the pass, then that would prohibit players in that team from picking up that loose ball, which would presumably have detrimental repercussions for the fluidity and flow of the game. It would also potentially punish teams for something (the bounce of an egg-shaped ball) that could be reasonably deemed beyond their control. So, it made much better sense then once those possible undesirable consequences were highlighted to me.

[Charlie Darwin]

I often wondered why there was a focus on the passing motion (which can be a bit more difficult to gauge objectively) as opposed to the final destination of the pass relative to its point of origin (which would be much easier to measure), but then it was pointed out to me that not all passes will of course be caught. For example, a passer may throw the ball back to a team-mate, who may fail to catch it, resulting in the ball bouncing on the ground and potentially forward to a point on the pitch that is ahead of the line from where the pass was originally thrown.
Well, that's not it. If the ball hits the ground then the pass is finished so where it bounces is irrelevant.

The reason they use the 'passing motion' rather than destination is because of momentum. If I'm running and I throw the ball behind me but with less velocity than I'm currently travelling, the ball with end up in front of where I threw it. So, in practice, a lot of the time when a rugby player throws the ball behind him it still ends up at a point in front of where he threw it.

[DannyInvincible]

Well, that's not it. If the ball hits the ground then the pass is finished so where it bounces is irrelevant.

Ah, I see. :o

[Real ale Madrid]

Remember lads Rugby has laws not rules - laws that are open to interpretation!

Anyway - a cracking game this am - Hurricanes 31-31 Lions. The midweek teams games have been entertaining.

[Stuttgart88]

Anyone got any views on the tackling on Murray complaints? One gif I saw looked like a blatant attempt to chop him down on his standing leg, an utter disgrace in my opinion. My instinct was to think it was just Gatland whingeing when I read about it, but then I saw a clip and it horrified me. No way was it an attempt at a block. Barbaric.

[Real ale Madrid]

Anyone got any views on the tackling on Murray complaints? One gif I saw looked like a blatant attempt to chop him down on his standing leg, an utter disgrace in my opinion. My instinct was to think it was just Gatland whingeing when I read about it, but then I saw a clip and it horrified me. No way was it an attempt at a block. Barbaric.

Same thing happened to him against Glasgow this year and there was a bit of back and forth over that as well.

It looks worse slowed down and I don't think it was malicious - but it's still clumsy and VERY dangerous and was a pen / Yellow card for me.

[jbyrne]

Anyone got any views on the tackling on Murray complaints? One gif I saw looked like a blatant attempt to chop him down on his standing leg, an utter disgrace in my opinion. My instinct was to think it was just Gatland whingeing when I read about it, but then I saw a clip and it horrified me. No way was it an attempt at a block. Barbaric.

keep an eye on murray for a second or two after he kicks each time. usually barged, pushed or similar after almost every kick. should be a pen every time

[BonnieShels]

NZ are filth and get away with murder at every turn. It's easy to win a hape of matches when you've got he ref with ye. If they were refereed as hard as everyone else you'd see a different approach.

[OwlsFan]

NZ are filth and get away with murder at every turn. It's easy to win a hape of matches when you've got he ref with ye. If they were refereed as hard as everyone else you'd see a different approach.

The ref must have been reading your comment, Bonnie. It was interesting that the two linesmen (identical twins?) were very reluctant to agree with the ref when he said that it a sending off offence.

Much and all as I am interested in the Lions, was the game worth 6 (yes 6) pages in the Sunday Times sport supplement? I know there isn't a huge amount of other sport on at the moment but that's a bit ott.

[BonnieShels]

Listen to Gavin Cummiskey here.

http://www.newstalk.com/Gavin-Cummiskey-on-Jaco-Peyper:-He-shouldnt-be-let-near-an-All-Blacks-game-again-

The world and its mother knows that NZ get away with murder. Maybe Garces will finally be the ref to show the rest how it's done. Or... he'll never get an AB game again.

[jbyrne]

The ref must have been reading your comment, Bonnie. It was interesting that the two linesmen (identical twins?) were very reluctant to agree with the ref when he said that it a sending off offence.


apparently 50 years since the last all black was sent off. says it all really.

while we are on the topic of ABs getting away with murder...... how long will the professional rugby world tolerate one team getting an extended warm up (the haka) just before KO while the other team has to stand still in the piddling cold rain??

[BonnieShels]

The excuse that's always thrown out about the haka is that the rules pertaining to it are the same rules that allow Ireland to have 2 anthems played. Albeit that only happens when we play in Dublin. They get teh poxy haka in EVERY match!

The thing is though, NZ are World Rugby's crown jewels so anything that approaches

The problem with criticizing the All Blacks (which reminds me of when one criticizes Kerry) is that the skin is so thin that you're shouted down about being a sore loser. Look at the NZ Herald anytime they play a NH team.

8 months on and I'm still annoyed at Peyper's "performance" in Lansdowne [See Kieran Read here: https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/800286268961787904]. It was a disgrace. And all we were told to do was to "carry-on" and not be sore losers. It's a jip.

Still can't find the forward [QB style pass] that they had for the final try that day. Must root it out when I have time.

EDIT: and I forgot about Barrett's "try" when no grounding could be seen.

[jbyrne]

The excuse that's always thrown out about the haka is that the rules pertaining to it are the same rules that allow Ireland to have 2 anthems played. Albeit that only happens when we play in Dublin. They get teh poxy haka in EVERY match!


but both teams have to endure Irelands Call before the match under the same conditions. there's no advantage to us

[OwlsFan]

The haka and Ireland's Call - wrist cutting stuff.

And what sort of substances was Vunipola on? He gets a clear warning from the ref "to be careful" after one of his infringements and within 2 minutes he commits another one and gets a yellow.I would check for betting irregularities around that time. He's not even a great scrummager by all accounts.

As ever, when a team gives away penalties, we hear after the game "this is something we're going to have to work on". Next game arrives: loads of penalties given away. "We're going to have to work on this". Rugby has some many technical rules, most apparently unknown by the players, and played at such a physical and frantic pace, that I wish them good luck with that.