Austria v Rep of Ireland - Ernst Happel Stadium, Vienna - Sat, 12th Nov 2016 - WCQ

[Stuttgart88]

Is that it now ? Any more after thoughts ? :)

Yeah, sorry, I was in an airport with only a mobile phone to hand.

[OwlsFan]

Also wanted to add we shouldn't get too carried away either because things can change very quickly as we even saw in the last campaign.

I don't think anyone here is getting carried away. We have seen our limitations (e.g. home to Georgia). What I am ecstatic about is the fact that we have at long last won away against a higher ranked team and, in terms of the Group, puts us in the driving seat. Of course it can all go pear shaped and the fat lady's voice is only a distant bit of tinnitus in the ear but we have beaten the Austrians away from home. Enjoy. Worry about what comes next later.

[p2011]

It's been commented on in the papers, but I thought the same as it transpired: what a great, great, great goal! A proper counterattacking goal.

Two thoughts:
The goal only happens because we have Hoolahan between the lines (and you can clearly see him literally between two lines of red on the replays). We wouldn't have scored that goal under all those years of 4-4-2. Hoolahan did lose the ball a lot on Saturday, admittedly. More than he normally does. But this is not fatal when there are two other midfielders and 4 defenders behind him. But the gains! His neglect (and our failure to play a 3rd man in midfield) for years is such a shame. Especially away in that sort of situation.
The goal also happens because Austria are committing men forward and they suddenly (unexpectedly for them, as they were looking for a soft foul) lose the ball. They are backpedalling, out of shape and we have space to run into. Because other teams now have to come at us in this group (and Austria did on Saturday too), we will be seeing more of this. Ideal conditions for the likes of Long, and for McClean and Hendrick from wider positions.

[DeLorean]

We have more championship players than we've had in a squad for a long time too, but its not affecting our performances adversely.

The opposite maybe? I'm really starting to think that we are better served by having players at the top end of the Championship rather than battling relegation in the PL, in a lot of cases anyway. Could anybody argue that Ciaran Clark's situation hasn't improved from last season despite dropping a level? He was basically getting dropped every so often by Aston Villa as a result of the amount of goals they conceded - they had to be seen to be trying things to improve. In reality Fabio Cannavaro at his peak would have made little difference to their defensive woes. Brady, I think, is too good for the Championship alright, but should be playing for a mid-table PL team at least.

[Kingdom]

The opposite maybe? I'm really starting to think that we are better served by having players at the top end of the Championship rather than battling relegation in the PL, in a lot of cases anyway. Could anybody argue that Ciaran Clark's situation hasn't improved from last season despite dropping a level? He was basically getting dropped every so often by Aston Villa as a result of the amount of goals they conceded - they had to be seen to be trying things to improve. In reality Fabio Cannavaro at his peak would have made little difference to their defensive woes. Brady, I think, is too good for the Championship alright, but should be playing for a mid-table PL team at least.

Clark's situation is improved by having a really impressive defensive coach as his manager, in addition to the change of circumstance. The fact that he has a no-nonsense-taking bullock as his partner for Ireland has to help too.

[DeLorean]

Yeah I wouldn't be a much of a Benitez fan but he's miles above that level and defensive organisation is his forte. Clark can only benefit from playing under him. It was good management by O'Neill to stick by the pair for Vienna. Keogh probably has legitimate reason to feel hard done by but I definitely rate Duffy and Clark higher.

[Kingdom]

I'm a huge Benitez fan.

[DeLorean]

I'm a huge Benitez fan.

Don't I know. :)

[backstothewall]

Keogh probably has legitimate reason to feel hard done by but I definitely rate Duffy and Clark higher.

They look like the perfect partnership. It's almost uncanny how any weakness either of them has is a strength for the other.

In his first book Mick McCarthy wrote about his partnership with Kevin Moran, and how although Dave O'Leary was probably a better player than either of them, they were just good together and enjoyed playing with each other. There is maybe an element of that going on here.

[EAFC_rdfl]

They look like the perfect partnership. It's almost uncanny how any weakness either of them has is a strength for the other.

In his first book Mick McCarthy wrote about his partnership with Kevin Moran, and how although Dave O'Leary was probably a better player than either of them, they were just good together and enjoyed playing with each other. There is maybe an element of that going on here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li4GfSsJxpk

could.not.resist.

[paul_oshea]

I really enjoyed this read:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/john-giles-our-rivals-are-getting-far-too-much-credit-from-martin-oneill-and-from-the-players-35221405.html

I highlighted the point a while ago and again at the last double header when McClean came out playing down our ability and expectations. O'Neill has built a mentality around the players being underdogs and needing to draw from spirt less so much skill, I dont mind that too much but don't keep downplaying our ability and upping the opposition's.

Like the Serbia game it wasn't get out of jail draw, it was one where we could have won, but yet it was turned on his head like it was a great 1 point away from home. Our talent pool as Giles suggests is not somehow less than Austrias, Wales or Serbis bar 1 or so player(s). There are no great teams and need to start believing in our own ability a bit more. Getting the win in Austria was a start, we need to keep this going. We should be expecting to beat teams.

[jbyrne]

Like the Serbia game it wasn't get out of jail draw, it was one where we could have won, but yet it was turned on his head like it was a great 1 point away from home.

we should have been 3 - 1 down to Serbia by the time we equalised. it was a point won in my opinion as we hardly threatened from 2nd minute until about the 75th

[Yard of Pace]

No. Please no.

For once....since god knows when, there is no negativity, or scandal, or intrigue, or some other nonsense following our team around. Let's not invent some. Who cares that O'Neill and the players talk like we're underdogs? Ranieri did it all the way with Leicester. How did that end?

We're top of the group with a gap. And everyone is happy. There's no Jack Grealish fiasco, the management aren't falling out with any players, no one even mentions Darron Gibson anymore. We've just lost a player who scored over 60 international goals and he barely gets a mention. And when he does it's that we're not missing him. I could go on and on.

Please. Let's not try to invent some kind of negative angle to have a moan about. Whatever the management are doing is working. Let's just be happy. I'm loving it.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The lad who scored the winner in the Euros? Wasn't he a PL flop with Swansea? Playing for some mid table French team now?

I get what Giles is saying.

There isn't much to fear in Intl football anymore.

Holland and Portugal make hard work of teams like Luxembourg.

You look at teams like Spain and Germany and wonder how they are going to replace retiring players.

Iago Aspas, Aritz Aduriz and Serge Gnabry wouldn't have got near their squads let alone teams four years ago.

No complaints though re: O'Neill. It's just a trifling thing. He isn't slowly sapping the confidence of his players like his predecessor.

[DeLorean]

Good man YOP. I like Giles but I think that's a pretty crap piece to put it bluntly. O'Neill may have questioned the quality of our squad at times but I think he's been pretty upbeat for a long time now. He often says "they are a very fine side", when talking about the opposition. Big deal, no point in giving the opposition an extra incentive by saying something like "ah, they're no great shakes really!". It's just common manners, I can't ever remember him implying that we're inferior to the opposition, bar Germany, but that's a no brainer and it didn't do us any harm anyway.

We were blessed to get a draw in Serbia... it's was an absolutely brilliant point under the circumstances and looks like an even better point now. There was only one team that deserved to win that game and it sure as hell wasn't us. Yes, if we'd just decided to play a bit better then we might have won (cos football is really that simple!), but we didn't so we were lucky to draw. How anybody can still think it was anything other than a good draw is beyond me to be honest. If I was from Serbia I would have been seriously frustrated with the two points dropped.

[Yard of Pace]

I apologise. Roy Keane had a go at Ronald Koeman. There could have been loads on it. But there wasn't.

Koeman didn't have a go back. McCarthy didn't whinge about it. There was nothing further, which says all you need to know.

How marvellous is that???!

In a year of utter turmoil regarding everything else in the world, we have something we can sit back and smile and feel proud about. At the risk of sounding like that character off the Fast Show, it's all just brilliant.

[Yard of Pace]

If I was from Serbia I would have been seriously frustrated with the two points dropped.

When they don't qualify, the worst player at Serbian training sessions will be made to wear a horrid jersey with "I had an Ireland" on it. It's possibly already even happening.

[DeLorean]

When they don't qualify, the worst player at Serbian training sessions will be made to wear a horrid jersey with "I had an Ireland" on it. It's possibly already even happening.

What will inevitably happen though is that Serbia will top the group a point or two ahead of us in second. We'll lose the playoff and Paul will let everybody know that it was the two points dropped in Serbia that cost us and how he called it at the time.

Or else the complete opposite will happen, in which case Paul will say that it reinforces his point even more. ;)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

We went in front playing somewhat on the front foot and equalized when we were, again, on the front foot.

So, naturally one concludes we could have taken all 3 points if we played that way the entire game.

Judging by his cameo, it would have made more sense starting Murphy but this would have required a change in personnel that wasn't and won't be entertained for a second.

The Serbian defenders couldn't get to grips with him at all.

[jbyrne]

We went in front playing somewhat on the front foot and equalized when we were, again, on the front foot.

So, naturally one concludes we could have taken all 3 points if we played that way the entire game.


a result can only be assessed based on what actually happened and after what went on in the Serbia game we were lucky to get the point

[paul_oshea]

we should have been 3 - 1 down to Serbia by the time we equalised. it was a point won in my opinion as we hardly threatened from 2nd minute until about the 75th

The difference between Serbia and Austria was they were less impotent up front, but Serbia were more porous at the back. We should have capitalised on that. Individual mistakes aside our defence has been very good. Eradicate those and we have a top class defence.

[paul_oshea]

Good man YOP. I like Giles but I think that's a pretty crap piece to put it bluntly. O'Neill may have questioned the quality of our squad at times but I think he's been pretty upbeat for a long time now. He often says "they are a very fine side", when talking about the opposition. Big deal, no point in giving the opposition an extra incentive by saying something like "ah, they're no great shakes really!". It's just common manners, I can't ever remember him implying that we're inferior to the opposition, bar Germany, but that's a no brainer and it didn't do us any harm anyway.

We were blessed to get a draw in Serbia... it's was an absolutely brilliant point under the circumstances and looks like an even better point now. There was only one team that deserved to win that game and it sure as hell wasn't us. Yes, if we'd just decided to play a bit better then we might have won (cos football is really that simple!), but we didn't so we were lucky to draw. How anybody can still think it was anything other than a good draw is beyond me to be honest. If I was from Serbia I would have been seriously frustrated with the two points dropped.

Maybe its like the 5 stages, he started us off believing we were real underdogs, really not worth much and slowly built up the team confidence, then he nurtured a they are better than us but we can overcome that with our self belief and our spirit and our determination and our steelines. The next 2-3 stages just involve making us world beaters :P

Seriously though perhaps initially it was to dampen expectations, and thats why he was saying it. Now they have evolved he is less concentrating on the negative(them and us) and more on the positives(us).

Either way, the lads have to stop thinking they are inferior to these average teams and start breeding a winning mentality. We have international quality players to a good, decent standard and our results are showing that. Lets start acting like that. It's not a negative YOP, its actually a positive im trying to draw on. I'm not settling for the auld Irish lets be just happy with our lot.

[paul_oshea]

We were blessed to get a draw in Serbia... it's was an absolutely brilliant point under the circumstances and looks like an even better point now. There was only one team that deserved to win that game and it sure as hell wasn't us. Yes, if we'd just decided to play a bit better then we might have won (cos football is really that simple!), but we didn't so we were lucky to draw. How anybody can still think it was anything other than a good draw is beyond me to be honest. If I was from Serbia I would have been seriously frustrated with the two points dropped.

They weren't though, and I watched with a "neutral" at the game and they were saying Serbia weren't really up to much either, that Ireland should be able take them. Maybe on TV it looked a lot more fraught than it actually was, but being there I felt we could(and should)take them. We disagree i know so Ill move on :)

[Yard of Pace]

Lets start acting like that. It's not a negative YOP, its actually a positive im trying to draw on. I'm not settling for the auld Irish lets be just happy with our lot.

It's a negative in that you're desiring the players and management to change their approach. I think we should just leave things be as we're top of the table by 2 points and have just beaten a team who my father has been waiting for us to beat since 1971. Limerick's last All-Ireland was more recent.

I don't believe for a second that Coleman or O'Neill see us as inferior or underdogs or a team with not much quality. But their words, if they are worth thinking about, in my opinion, will probably help the Austrians, Welsh and Serbs to feel even more peed off for the next four months. And that's a good thing.

[DeLorean]

They weren't though, and I watched with a "neutral" at the game and they were saying Serbia weren't really up to much either, that Ireland should be able take them.

I meant after the match.

[OwlsFan]

The difference between Serbia and Austria was they were less impotent up front, but Serbia were more porous at the back. We should have capitalised on that. Individual mistakes aside our defence has been very good. Eradicate those and we have a top class defence.

Eradicate individual mistakes in any defence and you'll usually have a top class defence. That is normally the difference between winning and losing: the team which make the least errors win. Just about every manager finds fault with how the opposition scored. For our goal, Wimmer was out of position, imitating a dying swan when touched my Meyler and that is probably what their manager bemoaned.

I am still not sure how people say that Serbia were there for the taking when they played us off the pitch for most of the game other than for the period around our first goal. Did we fall back or were we pushed back? A mixture I'd say. On the basis of the play, we were blessed with a point. I have NEVER seen an Irish team dominate a major team away from home, other than perhaps in Paris but we won't go there.

I am still not convinced by this side (the Georgia first half comes to mind) but it is a team which can get results no matter how much on the back foot and that's a great strength. Giles doesn't need to be a genius to see that international football is not as strong as it was from a talent point of view but it is stronger from an organisational point of view and the team which works the hardest and makes the fewest mistakes is always in with a shout: our results against Germany show that. We are becoming hard to beat and are able to score even if pinned to our collars.

I don't think any Irish team ever regarded itself as a TEAM to be inferior. Under Trap we had this fantastic unbeaten away run which hardly smacked of inferiority. What we have been coy about is taking foreign teams on at "the passing game" in which style of play rightly or wrongly we regarded ourselves to be inferior, possibly due to most players being brought up in the hurly burly of the English league. O'Neill's team is not a "passing team" but I don't believe for a minute that he regards the team as being inferior to any of the other teams in the group. It is of course frustrating seeing the ball being given away but so long as the results keep coming, I am not too bothered.

[EAFC_rdfl]

They weren't though, and I watched with a "neutral" at the game and they were saying Serbia weren't really up to much either, that Ireland should be able take them. Maybe on TV it looked a lot more fraught than it actually was, but being there I felt we could(and should)take them. We disagree i know so Ill move on :)

God dammit I keep missing out on stuff cause I am only watching the match on TV :mad:

[Stuttgart88]

I felt we were the architects of our own near-downfall in Belgrade. We started great, they looked awful and purely through our own lack of composure and ambition let them back into it. They needed no second invitation and the more we let them play the more confident they became, with an inevitable outcome. The fact that we got back into it almost as soon as we started trying showed what we might have left out there. In the overall scheme of things it was a great result in many ways, but on the objective merit of that night and that night only I felt that it was more a lost opportunity to win than a gained draw, not least because their keeper was a total bag of nerves and a liability we should have exploited.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Couldn't make the Austria trip last week due to various commitments but having finally got to see the full game on Friday, here's my few thoughts on a brilliant victory!

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/2016/11/wien-ner-alright.html?m=1

[tetsujin1979]

dgO4Occ8y8o

[tetsujin1979]

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