Keane Vs. Vieira

[Karlos]

Just watched the footage there of the two teams lining up to shake hands before the games. It appears that 90% of the Man Utd team are wearing the 'Stand Up Speak Up' sweatshirts. The exceptions appear to be (interestingly enough), Roy Keane, Gary Neville & Roy Carroll. Wonder why 3 Utd players decided not to wear the swaetshirts when the rest of the team did, including Rio & Rooney. Mightn't have anything to do with the tunnel bust up but it's interesting that 2 of the players not wearing them are at the centre of the controversy. The camera pans before the last player so can't be 100% sure if they are the only 3 but the rest appear to be promoting the cause.

[Macy]

Just watched the footage there of the two teams lining up to shake hands before the games. It appears that 90% of the Man Utd team are wearing the 'Stand Up Speak Up' sweatshirts. The exceptions appear to be (interestingly enough), Roy Keane, Gary Neville & Roy Carroll. Wonder why 3 Utd players decided not to wear the swaetshirts when the rest of the team did, including Rio & Rooney. Mightn't have anything to do with the tunnel bust up but it's interesting that 2 of the players not wearing them are at the centre of the controversy. The camera pans before the last player so can't be 100% sure if they are the only 3 but the rest appear to be promoting the cause.
That's it case proven, lock them up and throw away the key......

[Karlos]

That's it case proven, lock them up and throw away the key......


of course had it been Vieria, Henry & Almunia it would have been another example of Arsenal's ill discipline and general bad attitude to football :eek:

Regardless of what happened in the tunnel, it's disappointing to see players not support a kick racism out of football initiative (visually at least), regardless of what team they play for. It sends out a bad message.

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.football365.com/opinion/f365_opinion/story_142257.shtml

Interesting opinions. Few would disagree on the malignancy he refers too. And SKY's propoganda-like coverage of football.

[Macy]

Regardless of what happened in the tunnel, it's disappointing to see players not support a kick racism out of football initiative (visually at least), regardless of what team they play for. It sends out a bad message.
United have in the past, including the players you name and shame. They just didn't this particular day. First mention of any agreement about wearing those sweatshirts comes two days after the game, as some excuse for Vieira's behaviour. So instead of him getting the grief, we now have some Keano is racist campaign beginning.

[Risteard]

What a bunch of rich fcuking idiots.

[livehead1]

who the hell would stick up for neville. he's an obnoxious little **** and deserves a good kick anyway.

anyway, its one thing sticking up for a team mate- throwing shapes and making threats like a street hoodlum is another matter- the preserve of scum like Keane

You are chattin absolute sh*t. i play football at a very good level and have many people in the side who i wouldnt call close friends, one of them is even anti-irish but on the football pitch, when theres a game you all get together and stick up for one another. its gets the team going, the crowd going and is good for morale, also often puts the other team off. if you had played football at a good level, maybe u wud understand that but evidently not. keane may well think the neviller is a fag but hes on 100k a week to stick up for his teammates and lead them

[Junior]

You are chattin absolute sh*t. i play football at a very good level and have many people in the side who i wouldnt call close friends, one of them is even anti-irish but on the football pitch, when theres a game you all get together and stick up for one another. its gets the team going, the crowd going and is good for morale, also often puts the other team off. if you had played football at a good level, maybe u wud understand that but evidently not. keane may well think the neviller is a fag but hes on 100k a week to stick up for his teammates and lead them

Agree with this. Though you don't have to play at any decent standard. You'll get the same on a Sunday morning.

As for Keane, pretty sure he gives Gary Neville a bit of stick in his book, so it wasn't out of any love for hime personally, purely because it is his duty as captain to ensure he represents & protects his team mates. I applaud it & hope he does it for Ireland in future performances (albeit without the captains armband!!)

[Karlos]

United have in the past, including the players you name and shame. They just didn't this particular day. First mention of any agreement about wearing those sweatshirts comes two days after the game, as some excuse for Vieira's behaviour. So instead of him getting the grief, we now have some Keano is racist campaign beginning.

firstly no one suggested keane is a racist or Neville or Carroll for that matter, just thought it surprising they they didn't participate fully in the campaign and interestingly enough were involved in a tunnel bust up with a person heavily involved in the campaign (it's very possible they forgot innocently to put the tops on, Vieria asked why, Neville replied and hand bags at dawn took off) What is being suggested is a reason for the bust up not an anti keane campaign - where the hell did you pick that up from :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

. They don't usually advertise agreements on minute silences before a game either for example so there would be no need to broadcast it, sky did however elude to the fact that both teams would participate in the campaign but failed to show the players handshakes before the game where it is noticable that some players have not (for whatever reason be it sinister or accidental). Viera's behaviour has only been brought into question by Keane, what he hasn't said is why Vieria was acting in a specific manner to G.Neville - we are asked to believe that Vieria had a go and that Neville and Keane are angels and said nothing.! :rolleyes:

They only visual evidence we have of anything is Keano losing the plot, mouthing off while Vieira smiles at Poll and 3 United players not wearing the anti-racism tops at the hand shakes. Might not be connected at all, but just giving you the facts that may be related to the bust up.

[Eire06]

of course had it been Vieria, Henry & Almunia it would have been another example of Arsenal's ill discipline and general bad attitude to football :eek:

Regardless of what happened in the tunnel, it's disappointing to see players not support a kick racism out of football initiative (visually at least), regardless of what team they play for. It sends out a bad message.

Looks like people are tryin to start sayin Neville and Keane are Racists

It could easly be a simple mistake in not wearing the tops
maybe they didn't get the tops before they left the dressing room...
Maybe with the arguement the didn't get time to go back and get the tops...

The excuses can go on and on and the stories will go on and on.....
The match won't be remembered for the good football and the class goals it'll be the scuffle in the tunnel....

[Karlos]

Looks like people are tryin to start sayin Neville and Keane are Racists




no different than some people starting the 'Vieira's a bully' rumour - besides I haven't seen anyone mention that Keane or Neville are racist but it might explain how an argument can break out again be it sinister or accidental.

[joeSoap]

This whole racist thing between the sides is drivel...pure and simple. There never have been to my knowledge any direct links to racist behaviour between the sides. You simply have good old fashioned rivalry. No harm....simple rivalry. They hate each other...no harm in that, and it boils over when they meet, but please ffs, stop all this racist bull...its very petty and annoying.

As I said in an earlier post the main thing that bothers me is the blatant antics , particularly from Vieira of late, on the pitch by diving and feigning injury. Cole and Ljungberg(who went down faster than a pair of whores knickers when tapped by Silvestre) and Rooneys incessant gobbing are what irks me more than anything else.

[Eire06]

This whole racist thing between the sides is drivel...pure and simple. There never have been to my knowledge any direct links to racist behaviour between the sides. You simply have good old fashioned rivalry. No harm....simple rivalry. They hate each other...no harm in that, and it boils over when they meet, but please ffs, stop all this racist bull...its very petty and annoying.

As I said in an earlier post the main thing that bothers me is the blatant antics , particularly from Vieira of late, on the pitch by diving and feigning injury. Cole and Ljungberg(who went down faster than a pair of whores knickers when tapped by Silvestre) and Rooneys incessant gobbing are what irks me more than anything else.

Well put.. Totally agree

[Karlos]

This whole racist thing between the sides is drivel...pure and simple. There never have been to my knowledge any direct links to racist behaviour between the sides. You simply have good old fashioned rivalry. No harm....simple rivalry. They hate each other...no harm in that, and it boils over when they meet, but please ffs, stop all this racist bull...its very petty and annoying.
.

Yes agreed, they don't like each other at all but what may be racist bull to us, may not be to someone else like Patrick Vieria for example and 'IF' that's his reason for being upset, then he's entitled to be. As I've said co-incidence it may be , but shouldn't be ignored if it isn't. Either way, either story, it's all speculation and we'll probably never know. I for one will never find issues or debates surrounding racism of any nature, petty and annoying.

Although, I wholeheartidly agree, in this case it's highly unlikely than any of the 3 are racists and that the row probably has erupted over an accidental mistake on the part of those players (if indeed that's what the row was about). Again it's speculation, but as viable an angle as any other!

[Closed Account 2]

Yeah I don’t think Man United players are racist. Their manager has made derisory comments about Italians on many occasions in the past (one that sticks to mind was the one about how find Italians so untrustworthy that on holiday he's "...always checking to see if there is pasta under the sauce" prior to a champions league match in Italy), which would indicate a high degree of paranoia-induced racial prejudice. Similarly a sizable number of their fans seem to be racist (just look at the thread about it in this section)... but their players, no they’re probably not racist.

[brine3]

Does anyone have a link to either a sound or video clip of the post-match interview?

[Éanna]

tunnel incident is here anyway. hilarious.http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Un-edited%20Tunnel

[eirebhoy]

Lads listen closely from the 16th second, Keane actually says the following:

"You know where Senegal is? Well f*cking play for them then" :D

[Kingdom]

In one of today's paper (The Indo) it gives evidence contrary to the opinion that there may be something racially motivated with the 3 lads . Apparently all the jerseys had the anti racism logo by the Nike swoosh. So that would be their contribution.
Perhaps?

[Longfordian]

"I'm a bigger non-racist than you.."

[eirebhoy]

In one of today's paper (The Indo) it gives evidence contrary to the opinion that there may be something racially motivated with the 3 lads . Apparently all the jerseys had the anti racism logo by the Nike swoosh. So that would be their contribution.
Perhaps?
Correct. Have a look at the clip and you wouldn't have a need to say "apparently". ;)

[Karlos]

TV images do show Arsenal in the black tops and Utd not wearing them - they had no choice with the jerseys as they were pre-printed with the logo. Apparently Ferdinand who is associated with the 'Stand Up Speak Up' programme has apologised to all concerned with the programme in private.

I did give that very same evidence 2 days ago!

It's old ground now, but the report I got from a journo friend was there was an issue over the SWEATSHIRTS that every player wore, bar the 3 united lads, not the pre-printed shirts thay 'had' to wear. The sweatshirts carried a much larger logo on the front & back advertising the campaign.

Don't wish to keep going over this at this stage.

Happy Friday night to all :D

[Karlos]

Lads listen closely from the 16th second, Keane actually says the following:

"You know where Senegal is? Well f*cking play for them then" :D

is that not a bit ironic, coming from a man who knows where Ireland is but wouldn't play for close to 2 years!!! :D :D :D

(sorry couldn't resist!) :)

[Éanna]

Lads listen closely from the 16th second, Keane actually says the following:

"You know where Senegal is? Well f*cking play for them then" :D
LOL. just heard it there after a few listenings. Much as i can't stand him, fair play to the man for coming up with such a sharo comment in the middle of all that :D :D

[Karlos]

I see Mr. G. Neville, the man at the centre of the tunnel incident, has indeed, critisised the 'stand up, speak up' campaign at last as was suggested as the catalyst for the Vieira - Keane bust up! :mad:

Neville Critisises Anti-Racism Campaign (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/articles/16513013?source=Evening)

[Macy]

Any other threads you want to post this on? Neville criticises Nike, not the message.


Neville said: "We don't have a big problem with racism in this country, you can think of probably one or two incidents in the last five or 10 years. We have to make sure that the campaign is conducted in the right manner and not done just for PR like some of the sports companies seem to be doing at the moment. The FA and the England team have always campaigned against racism very well, we have just got to be aware that it is not cheapened slightly by companies like Nike getting a lot of PR out of it for nothing."

[Karlos]

no, just the two threads the post is relevant to will be sufficient.

[cullenswood]

no, just the two threads the post is relevant to will be sufficient.

If an Arsenal player or a player from any other team had made those comment I dont think you would be posting it everywhere.

[Karlos]

If an Arsenal player or a player from any other team had made those comment I dont think you would be posting it everywhere.


well you don't know me then do you. If it was an Arsenal player who said it, there wouldn't be a big rush to defend him here either, I'd imagine! :confused:

p.s. just to clarify 'everywhere' - that's infact just the two threads where the anti-racism campaign has been discussed. Posting in two relevant threads is now seen as spamming the board in some peoples eyes, pathetic :mad:

[NeilMcD]

I agree with nevilles comments, Nike are only doing it as a party of advertisig. I saw nevill been interviewd this mornign and he spoke well and its obvious that he is not a racist but that he believes that this is the wrong way about going about it. This is the problem with capaigns etc. if somebody refused to take part then that person gets challenged. Viera had no business having a go against Neville for not wearing the tracksuit. Its a free world and he can do what he wants, and it does not mean he is a racist.

[Macy]

He says where he lives there is no problem with racism. I thought he lived in England. It mihgt not be rampant in green and leafy Cheshire amongst the houses of multimillionaires, but if he thinks England (like many other countries) does not have a problem with racism he (i) is highlighting his own stupidity and (ii) should get a copy of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry sent to him immediately.
As per the Off Topic thread, I think the first sentence of the quote could be challenged. Not convinced the UK is the worst in Europe by any means, certainly compared to what I hear and see in this country, but it is still there to some degree.

However, on the actual campaign I think he has a valid point. If Nike were genuine they would have no problem removing their name and logo from the campaign releases, Henry, Vieira, Ferdinand et al not mentioning them in press conferences....

[SÓC]

If Nike were genuine they would have no problem removing their name and logo from the campaign releases, Henry, Vieira, Ferdinand et al not mentioning them in press conferences....

Very good point. Let them have their tick on the label inside the jersey instead.

[NeilMcD]

He says where he lives there is no problem with racism. I thought he lived in England. It mihgt not be rampant in green and leafy Cheshire amongst the houses of multimillionaires, but if he thinks England (like many other countries) does not have a problem with racism he (i) is highlighting his own stupidity and (ii) should get a copy of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry sent to him immediately.

I think he means in relation to football as he says that in teh last few years there have been only one or two incidents. I dont think he is that stupid that there has been only 2 incidents of racism in the whole of England. He Meant footballing related racism.

[Karlos]

I think he means in relation to football as he says that in teh last few years there have been only one or two incidents. I dont think he is that stupid that there has been only 2 incidents of racism in the whole of England. He Meant footballing related racism.


I can think of 2 incidents in late 2004 in the UK alone that are football related

1. Dwight Yorke incident at Blackburn

2. Chelsea fans 'alternative' lyrics to the Vieira song which I had the pleasure of witnessing first hand

If G. Neville really believes that there is only one or two incidents in ten years in english football, he'll need to get around the 92 english league clubs more often. Almost every game I've been to in the UK i've encountered some form of racist abuse and/or chanting allbeit by a minority.

The most recent England one I can recall outside the Spain game was the England-Turkey game and the racist chanting that went on at that one. It's a much bigger problem than unfortunetly G. Neville has suggested in that article.

[Closed Account 2]

Central Manchester has seen a lot of racially motivated attacks over the past 18 months or so, I remember a particularly nasty one where 3 Latvians walking home were set upon by a gang who beat one of them to death because he "spoke with a foreign accent". Its strange that his statement seems to ignore these incidents happening in the city that his club claims to represent.

Similarly he doesnt seem to take into account the disgracefull scenes (usually media inspired) that frequently occur when the England football team (of which he is usually a member) play someone like Germany (e.g. German tourists, and even German-made cars attacked post Euro 96), Argentina (e.g. Argentine Restaurants attacked in Central London post France 98) or Portugal (e.g. Pub of Portuguese Fans attacked in Thetford after Euro 2004).

[thecorner]

what he is on about is nike cashing in on the anti-racism and he is dead right