What we think of Souness

[liam88]

There's only one Craig Bellamy (http://www.esthercoma.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bell.wmv)!!

:D :D :D

[finlma]

I've nothing against Souness myself but I certainly do against Belamy. He's scum of the earth. The guy is 25 and acts like a spoilt little 16 year old kid.

[liam88]

I've nothing against Souness myself but I certainly do against Belamy. He's scum of the earth. The guy is 25 and acts like a spoilt little 16 year old kid.
Aye he's no angel but go on then....what's he done that's so bad?

[finlma]

He shows a lack of respect for people around him. He's an unpleasant little man that I'd put in the same league (not footballing wise) as Robbie Savage and Lee Bowyer.

[Éanna]

There's only one Craig Bellamy (http://www.esthercoma.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bell.wmv)!!

:D :D :D
What kind of Irish accents were those fella's singing in? I didn't recognise it :D

IMO bellamy is an obnoxious little runt, he deserves a good kicking.

As for Souness, I met the guy once and he was an absolute gent. As a manager, he might not be the best, but I admire the way he stands up to little brats like Bellamy and Yorke. He represents a decency and honesty thats missing from a lot of people in modern football

[liam88]

He shows a lack of respect for people around him. He's an unpleasant little man that I'd put in the same league (not footballing wise) as Robbie Savage and Lee Bowyer.
I respect that.....I really hope he behaves better at Celtic :D

[finlma]

I respect that.....I really hope he behaves better at Celtic :D

Me too Liamo. There's no question about his ability and he'll definitely score goals in the SPL.

[Éanna]

he'll definitely score goals in the SPL.
like thats so difficult :eek: :D

seriously though, I can't see martin o'neill putting up with any of his shít.

[Éanna]

Yes,but I dont see EL players making that sort of transition......
foran, dempsey, hunt, byrne..............

[razor]

the rest are Journeymen @ best,who'd make little or no impact cross-channel in the other Lge!
Isn't that why they're in the SPL?

[Macy]

Again supplying SPL journeymen is hardly any indication of quality of the EL.....the original point :rolleyes:
Yeah, but only Hunt was anything special in the eL either...

[razor]

Again supplying SPL journeymen is hardly any indication of quality of the EL.....the original point :rolleyes:
None of these players set the EL alight either but can make starting 11 in the SPL, showing there isn't that big a gap, if any, between EL and the lower echelons (outside the top 2) of the SPL. :rolleyes:

[Bluebeard]

Yeah, but only Hunt was anything special in the eL either...
I would say that Dempsey had a pretty good season with Waterford before Dunfermline came in for him, when we weren't particularly brilliant.

[Macy]

I would say that Dempsey had a pretty good season with Waterford before Dunfermline came in for him, when we weren't particularly brilliant.
Not saying they were shít, but they weren't exceptional either compared to the rest of the league. They made an easy adjustment to Scotland. That standard of the spl, excluding the Old Firm isn't that great - wtf would Celtic and Rangers be wanting to leave if it was? And if money is the factor, why don't the TV companies want to pay for the spl?

[Junior]

That standard of the spl, excluding the Old Firm isn't that great - wtf would Celtic and Rangers be wanting to leave if it was? And if money is the factor, why don't the TV companies want to pay for the spl?

Don't think anyone here is disputing that???

[eoinh]

If you :rolleyes: say so......


The best way then is to compare scottish clubs in europe outside of the big two

Season 02/02

Vaduz v Livingston 1-1, 0-1 (Did better than Longfords terrible performance - something I still like to remind Longford Fans of. Vaduz are crap and they were even more back at this time). Liechtenstein are ranked lower than Ireland.

Aberdeen v Nistru 1-0, 0-0.

Sturm Graz v Livingston 5-2, 3-4 Livingstons Season over in Europe

Aberdeen V Hertha 0-0, 0-1 Aberdeens season over in Europe. Although to be fair they were good opposition
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03-04
Vlaznia Shkoder V Dundee 0-2, 0-4 Not bad although albanian footballs ranking is again below the LOIs.

Dundee V Perugia 1-2, 0-1 Dundee knocked out of europe. Again to be fair they were playing a good team

Hearts v Zeljeznicar 2-0, 0-0. Not bad and against a team from a ranking above the LOI

Bordeaux v Hearts 0-1, 2-0 Hearts season over in europe.
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04-05 FH Hafnarfjardar V Dunfermline 2-2, 2-1 Oh dear! Lost to a team ranked blow LOI standard and the same season an LOI team played against an Icelandic team and won. The result also means that Scotland wont have a team in next seasons champions league and will have to qualify.

Hearts v Braga 3-1, 2-2. Excellent Result especially as Braga are plying extremely well.

Hearts lost 3 of their four matchs in the group stage.

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Over the last three seasons non old firm clubs have only beaten clubs rated above the LOI three times. LOI clubs have managed it twice. Scotish teams however have been seeded because of the Old Firm, LOI teams have not been.

In cases where scottish teams have been unseeded they have only managed to win once, LOI teams have managed to win twice. From my point of view it looks like that when Scottish non old firm teams are put on the same base as LOI teams they seem to perform worse than LOI teams.

Next season all LOI teams for the first time will be seeded.


If you want to combine the Intertoto cup with the other european results, LOI clubs surpass non-firm scottish clubs in euope on all levels.

[razor]

The best way then is to compare scottish clubs in europe outside of the big two

Season 02/02

Vaduz v Livingston 1-1, 0-1 (Did better than Longfords terrible performance - something I still like to remind Longford Fans of. Vaduz are crap and they were even more back at this time). Liechtenstein are ranked lower than Ireland.

Aberdeen v Nistru 1-0, 0-0.

Sturm Graz v Livingston 5-2, 3-4 Livingstons Season over in Europe

Aberdeen V Hertha 0-0, 0-1 Aberdeens season over in Europe. Although to be fair they were good opposition
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


03-04
Vlaznia Shkoder V Dundee 0-2, 0-4 Not bad although albanian footballs ranking is again below the LOIs.

Dundee V Perugia 1-2, 0-1 Dundee knocked out of europe. Again to be fair they were playing a good team

Hearts v Zeljeznicar 2-0, 0-0. Not bad and against a team from a ranking above the LOI

Bordeaux v Hearts 0-1, 2-0 Hearts season over in europe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

04-05 FH Hafnarfjardar V Dunfermline 2-2, 2-1 Oh dear! Lost to a team ranked blow LOI standard and the same season an LOI team played against an Icelandic team and won. The result also means that Scotland wont have a team in next seasons champions league and will have to qualify.

Hearts v Braga 3-1, 2-2. Excellent Result especially as Braga are plying extremely well.

Hearts lost 3 of their four matchs in the group stage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over the last three seasons non old firm clubs have only beaten clubs rated above the LOI three times. LOI clubs have managed it twice. Scotish teams however have been seeded because of the Old Firm, LOI teams have not been.

In cases where scottish teams have been unseeded they have only managed to win once, LOI teams have managed to win twice. From my point of view it looks like that when Scottish non old firm teams are put on the same base as LOI teams they seem to perform worse than LOI teams.

Next season all LOI teams for the first time will be seeded.


If you want to combine the Intertoto cup with the other european results, LOI clubs surpass non-firm scottish clubs in euope on all levels.
If you :rolleyes: say so. :D

[eoinh]

Interesting to a point,but essentially dull....as the best SPL players make a poor Scotland side.....haven't seen any evidence of EL players making any realistic breakthrough......


I would assume thats because its easier to make a team thats ranked lower than Honduras and around the same level as Togo than one thats ranked 12th best in the world. The point I made is dull but I would venture - right! .

[eirebhoy]

Players like Hartson, Sutton and Prso would destroy the LOI.


Look at the only players that got at least 20 goals in the SPL since 95:

Henrik Larsson
Mark Viduka
Marco Negri
Jorge Cadete
Pierre van Hooijdonk

Hartson got 18 premiership goals in 97/98 yet he has never broke that in the SPL. Sutton also got 18 premiership goals in 97/98 yet hasn't got more in the SPL.
Hartson looks like he'll break 20 this season but Sutton and Prso are only on 11 and the league is 65% complete.

[razor]

Hartson looks like he'll break 20 this season but Sutton and Prso are only on 11 and the league is 65% complete.and poor oul Richie Foran languishing on a mere 9 for the season so far. :eek:

[drinkfeckarse]

To be fair I'm sure only half of those are league goals and anytime I see Forans name on the scoresheet it is more often than not a penalty. I would guess that 5 of those 9 anyway would be from the spot.

I know someone's gotta take them and put them away and that they all count however they go in, but I don't think he's the darling of the Motherwell fans just yet......

[eoinh]

Players like Hartson, Sutton and Prso would destroy the LOI.


Hartson looks like he'll break 20 this season but Sutton and Prso are only on 11 and the league is 65% complete.

What has that to do with anything? I dont see your point. BTW if youve scored 11 goals with 65% of the season gone that means if you keep scoring at the same rate you'll score 17 goals. It only takes a tiny change in your scoring average to reach 20.

Prso's average scoring rate with Monaco was 7 goals a season. Hardly impressive. He goes to Scotland and is on course to score 17 goals by the figures youve supplied. Thats a 143% increase. Simply Staggering. That maybe is an indiction of the drop in standards hes found since leaving France.

[eirebhoy]

What has that to do with anything? I dont see your point.
You seem to have gotten my point already. Hartson and Sutton managed to score 18 goals in the premiership but haven't even scored that many in a season in their 4 years in the SPL. I just can't imagine them failing to slaughter the Eircom league, which to me means the standard is a lot better.

[eoinh]

You must be the only person who thinks the standard in the SPL is better than the Premiership.

Strikers dont work that way anyway. Forlan didnt do anything in England yet is having a brilliant season in Spain, Europes greatest league.

[eirebhoy]

Strikers dont work that way anyway. Forlan didnt do anything in England yet is having a brilliant season in Spain, Europes greatest league.
I don't believe in all this "not suited to that league" stuff. The reason players don't do well in certain league's of similar standards (and there's only 2 leagues of similar standard to the premiership) is purely phsychological IMO. I predicted Forlan would do well btw:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1855948&postcount=16

...and of course the SPL is a higher standard than the premiership. :o

[eoinh]

Hartson never got near scoring any sort of significant amount in England

Suttons 18 was easily his best over many seasons. He ranged from about 4 to 11 usually


The reason players don't do well in certain league's of similar standards (and there's only 2 leagues of similar standard to the premiership) is purely phsychological IMO.

I dont disagree with you that it was psychological. But thats just as important as playing as well as having skill. The most skillful talanted players often dont make it for all sorts of reasons.

[monutdfc]

Have to say that Hartson looked way out of his depth when Wales played England at Old Trafford.
But, having said that, Celtic did beat both Liverpool and Blackburn on their way to the UEFA Cup Final. I would, however, put this down in a large way to (i) O'Neill's tactical superiority over Souness or Houllier (eg dropping Sutton onto Tugay at Ewood left Blackburn without a game plan) and (ii) Celtic being able to raise their game for the UEFA Cup without the week-in week-out challenges that the Premiership sides face.
I've nothing in particular against Celtic, jmho.

[eirebhoy]

Hartson never got near scoring any sort of significant amount in England.
24 goals in 97/98.

Sutton's record is pretty good (bar his spell at Chelsea):

Norwich - Played: 108 (14) - Scored: 43
Blackburn - Played: 145 (6) - Scored: 58

[eoinh]

24 goals in 97/98.

Sutton's record is pretty good (bar his spell at Chelsea):

Norwich - Played: 108 (14) - Scored: 43
Blackburn - Played: 145 (6) - Scored: 58

Hartson total was actually 15. Youve included league cup and FA Cup matchs and possibly international machs as well. Are you sure you havent done that for the rest as well?

[Bluebeard]

Not a fan of either, but when you cross compare on a number of levels the EPL does overcome the SPL

Proportionately fewer English players in EPL than Scottish players in SPL - i.e. harder for an English player to make it in EPL than Scottish player in SPL. Combine this with the fact that in games against similar opposition over the last five years, England tends to do better than Scotland; the fact that England have been repeatedly progressing farther than Scotland in major World and European competitions. This is merely on a broad scale of ability, noting that England has a higher proportion of population per club than Scotland does. Looking at where players are based, there are fewer English internationals in the SPL than Scottish internationals in the EPL.

OK, it may be said that this is to do with nations' respective international managers, and besides, sure aren't Celtic one of last year's five naughty teams according to UEFA (as are Chelsea and Arsenal). Right, let us look now at the calibre of foreign national player in each league, and that each league is capable of attracting. (We shall ignore the fact that the big names that go to Scotland generally speaking tend to go to only two clubs.)
The EPL has currently more players who have played in a World Cup or European Cup while at an English Club than the SPL. It also tends to attract players who's stars are rising or are top currency in the afterglow of such a competition, than the SPL, which it must be said re-kindled some stars (Caniggia being a good example, even with that shower)

But you may say that is just to do with money, the player who looks after his life after football will want ot go to a place where he can insure that he builds a nest egg. And you'd be right, but as we have seen over the last 3 campaigns, sadly here as well as in Scotland and England, it's money propels teams to Championships. But surely that also means that it is also money that means that the better players move from one league to another, thus making it a better league, in theory if nothing else.

But let's ignore that point, and look on another. Again we will ignore all but the big two in Scotland, and we'll invite all eligible English clubs. Surely the performance in European Competition averaged out between all the teams included, again, against like oppostion, rather than in games against each other, will finally prove that the EPL is the stronger of the two, as, with the exception of Celtic's glorious run in 2003, the results have been better, and even factoring that in, the average points rankings, as tallied by UEFA to decree who may have how many clubs in which competitions, are strongly stacked in favour of the EPL.

I'd still prefer to watch Dunfermline Vs Aberdeen than Man U Vs Arsenal, after all than, and the Blues against Anybody before all, but one must face the facts. Standards wise, it has to be the EPL over the SPL. Anyway, screw tehm both, I'm off back to the EL forum ;)