Republic of Ireland v Georgia - Thursday, 6th October 2016 -World Cup 2018 Qualifier

[liamoo11]

Pne forum seems to think mcgeady did his hammer and wil b out for 3 weeks which will b massive loss for us in these games where we may need some invention that not many others can give us

[MeathDrog]

Pne forum seems to think mcgeady did his hammer and wil b out for 3 weeks which will b massive loss for us in these games where we may need some invention that not many others can give us
Good one.

[tetsujin1979]

Pne forum seems to think mcgeady did his hammer and wil b out for 3 weeks which will b massive loss for us in these games where we may need some invention that not many others can give us
watch the txt spk, thanks

[nigel-harps1954]

Pne forum seems to think mcgeady did his hammer and wil b out for 3 weeks which will b massive loss for us in these games where we may need some invention that not many others can give us

Praise the sun.

[OwlsFan]

From the Indo:

O'Neill will have to cope without Newcastle new boy Daryl Murphy - the scorer of the equaliser in Serbia last month - due to a calf problem.

Marc Wilson (Bournemouth), Anthony Pilkington (Cardiff) and Stephen Quinn (Reading) all miss out. Quinn made a positive impact off the bench in Belgrade.
Colorado based Kevin Doyle is not expected to travel because of an ankle issue. Aberdeen striker Adam Rooney has been added to the panel.

Arter, Aiden McGeady (Preston) and Keiren Westwood (Sheffield Wednesday) were absent from training in Abbotstown this afternoon because they stayed back for assessment with their employers. Arter damaged his groin on club duty, while Westwood is a major doubt on account of a thigh injury. Manchester City keeper Ian Lawlor has been promoted from the U21 squad in the expectation that the experienced netminder will be unavailable.
James McCarthy has reported for duty to have his groin problem assessed, yet the odds are still against the Everton man making his comeback in the Dublin date with Georgia on Thursday. He did engage in light training. Leeds recent recruit Eunan O'Kane is also carrying a knock.

There was no place in O'Neill's final panel for Barnsley midfielder Conor Hourihane who was named in the provisional list for the first time.

[tetsujin1979]

Ian Lawlor called up from the U21 squad as well.
No word on any replacement for him in the U21s

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It's absurd that Hourihane can't make the final squad in fairness. Look at the amount of players missing/potentially missing in his position.

Thin on the ground with strikers too.

Long, Walters and Rooney.

I have my doubts Walters has 90 minutes in him but he'll be flogged anyway.

[samhaydenjr]

It's absurd that Hourihane can't make the final squad in fairness. Look at the amount of players missing/potentially missing in his position.

Thin on the ground with strikers too.

Long, Walters and Rooney.

I have my doubts Walters has 90 minutes in him but he'll be flogged anyway.

And you wonder why we're all so antsy about bringing in Scott Hogan, deep emotional connection to Ireland or no deep emotional connection to Ireland. Well, at least it finally gives Rooney the opportunity to step up to international level and see if he can bring club form with him - I know the SPL isn't the most prestigious league, especially outside the Old Firm, but 48 league goals in 85 appearances is still pretty impressive

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Well you know the expression: wish in one hand, sh.......

Pity about Stokes, too.

Eoin Doyle isn't pulling up trees.

I've championed a call up for Paddy Madden in recent times, but even he's having a tough time of it at Scunny - he's been rooted to their bench over the last few games.

[nigel-harps1954]

Case for Sean Maguires inclusion maybe?

[Stuttgart88]

It's absurd that Hourihane can't make the final squad in fairness. Look at the amount of players missing/potentially missing in his position.

Thin on the ground with strikers too.

Long, Walters and Rooney.

I have my doubts Walters has 90 minutes in him but he'll be flogged anyway. It's not absurd. It's a value judgment and as things stand Arter isn't ruled out yet. It's not a value judgment I share but "absurd" is stretching it. You wanted Quinn out, he's out. For ages you ask why there's no Rooney. Now he picks Rooney. Walters got an assist for Stoke's equaliser, off the bench. We know O'Neill sees McClean as an option up front. Just give over on the misery and the repetition.

[DeLorean]

Case for Sean Maguires inclusion maybe?

I'm surprised more people aren't saying this. He looks like a different option to our other strikers too, in a good way. All the noise is about Horgan despite it being a position we're pretty well stocked in. I know Dundalk's European run has fuelled a lot of that hype which is fair enough too, but if I could chose between them right now I definitely go for Maguire due to the circumstances.

[TrapAPony]

Our striking options are looking absolutely dire but enough to get over Moldova & Georgia. Badly need to recruit someone.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It's not absurd. It's a value judgment and as things stand Arter isn't ruled out yet. It's not a value judgment I share but "absurd" is stretching it. You wanted Quinn out, he's out. For ages you ask why there's no Rooney. Now he picks Rooney. Walters got an assist for Stoke's equaliser, off the bench. We know O'Neill sees McClean as an option up front. Just give over on the misery and the repetition.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1OnSeeP8Bc

@ 3:37

I don't think it was an assist.

I reserve judgment. If Arter and McCarthy join Quinn on the injury list then Hourihane simply has to be called back into the squad.

He's miles ahead of Gleeson. And three years younger.

You know things are bad when you are trumpeting the call up of a 25 year old to bring down the age profile of the squad.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Our striking options are looking absolutely dire but enough to get over Moldova & Georgia. Badly need to recruit someone.

Assuming we are on the same level as a Slovakia or a Slovenia, and using them as a baseline, look at the strikers they select for their squads - both in terms of age, Intl experience, profile and talent.

They make do with what they got.

We are fairly haughty about the strikers we call up.

Why not throw in Best, Doyle, Stokes or Madden? Or even Maguire as someone mentioned.

It's uninspiring but are they any worse than a 37 year old Milivoje Novakovic or Marek Bakos?

We are not the only country with a dearth of strikers coming through. It doesn't mean we have to deplete ourselves or leave ourselves short.

Those lads I just mentioned are all a good age too, between 26-29 like Rooney.

[TrapAPony]

Why not throw in Best, Doyle, Stokes or Madden? Or even Maguire as someone mentioned.



Best is injury prone and is hardly going to get a run out for Ireland again despite starting recently for Ipswich, Stokes is a Blackburn reserve with baggage, Doyle should have retired, Madden is a Scunthorpe sub and they are doing well without him. In any case he has never done it at a higher level than League 1. Maguire might have potential in the future but would need to be scoring on a regular basis against teams from a higher level than the League of Ireland...Adam Rooney...Is he realistically any better than Connor Sammon?

[nigel-harps1954]

Best is injury prone and is hardly going to get a run out for Ireland again despite starting recently for Ipswich, Stokes is a Blackburn reserve with baggage, Doyle should have retired, Madden is a Scunthorpe sub and they are doing well without him. In any case he has never done it at a higher level than League 1. Maguire might have potential in the future but would need to be scoring on a regular basis against teams from a higher level than the League of Ireland...Adam Rooney...Is he realistically any better than Connor Sammon?

Is there a case for Madden to be called up ahead of Maguire playing only in League One? It's hardly a higher standard to what Maguire is playing.

There's every bit the case for Maguire ahead of, or at least on equal footing to, an injury prone Best, reserve players in Stokes and Madden and even Adam Rooney, as the SPL is not of a higher playing standard to LOI Premier, no matter what argument you put out.

[TrapAPony]

Is there a case for Madden to be called up ahead of Maguire playing only in League One? It's hardly a higher standard to what Maguire is playing.

There's every bit the case for Maguire ahead of, or at least on equal footing to, an injury prone Best, reserve players in Stokes and Madden and even Adam Rooney, as the SPL is not of a higher playing standard to LOI Premier, no matter what argument you put out.

My point is that I wouldn't call up any of them. None of them are currently good enough.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Maguire didn't pull up trees in League Two. Didn't look any better than Drennan.

Stokes is a very talented player, scores goals, looked sharp against Germany & Kazakhstan when he got a rare chance. Has actually started relatively well for Blackburn IMO before things took a turn after his strop in Cardiff. I thought his Champions League performances have shown his class.

Madden has scored ****loads of goals in League Two consistently and had a decent cameo against Wales. Can play on the wing.

Even Sammon, as **** as he is, has had his moments for us. Got a few assists and showed a decent understanding with Keane at times. Very unlucky not to score on a breakaway against Spain.

The basis of my point is that we have a paucity of options but lots of teams do. Portugal won the European Championships despite not having a half decent out and out striker since Pauleta.

There's no need to get hung up on Hogan. There are some lads mentioned in the last few posts who could do a job for us, though not as a bonafide regular starter.

Sheridan is another option..

[nigel-harps1954]

Maguire didn't pull up trees in League Two. Didn't look any better than Drennan.

Maguire scored 7 goals as a 20 year old at Accrington in half a season where they finished 17th. Don't think that's too shabby really.



Stokes is a very talented player, scores goals, looked sharp against Germany & Kazakhstan when he got a rare chance. Has actually started relatively well for Blackburn IMO before things took a turn after his strop in Cardiff. I thought his Champions League performances have shown his class.


Stokes is incredibly over-rated. He failed to live up to any glimmer of potential he showed as a youngster at Celtic.



Madden has scored ****loads of goals in League Two consistently and had a decent cameo against Wales. Can play on the wing.


Again, League Two is of a worse standard than LOI Premier.



Even Sammon, as **** as he is, has had his moments for us. Got a few assists and showed a decent understanding with Keane at times. Very unlucky not to score on a breakaway against Spain.

Has he even scored since returning to Scotland?

[backstothewall]

On the Maguire suggestion, I'd be in favour of bringing him into the squad. Even if not as an official squad member it would do no harm at all to call him and maybe one or 2 others in to train with the squad.

I believe O'Neill suggested that he wouldn'the be calling up any Dundalk players to this squad due to the crazy fixture congestion they are up against. It's a reasonable position and I think he has to be taken at his word on that. But the truth is it's not terribly clear what level the top of the LOI is in comparison to the SPL or the Championship in England. Seeing a few of the best non-Dundalk LOI players training alongside players from those divisions might demystify that a little without disrupting what Dundalk are doing at this crucial stage of their season.

[geysir]

A wise person once said we would rue the days after Robbie hung up his intl boots and there's plenty of rueing going on here.
For these games we have Long, Walters and Wesley close by, along with a few good attack proficient midfielders.

The main thing I'd worry about is the imponderable, the fear that Georgia's deserved time to extract something from us is overdue.

[samhaydenjr]

Sooo...at the end of all that, Adam Rooney, with two-and-a half seasons with a scoring rate of a goal every 1.77 games, seems to be the right option to come in for now

[pineapple stu]

the SPL is not of a higher playing standard to LOI Premier, no matter what argument you put out.
I'll put out the argument that Harps are in the LoI Premier - and not even in the relegation zone.

I think the SPL is a higher standard to the LoI Premier. The top LoI teams are certainly comparable, but not the league.

Ditto the English Leagues One and Two - again, the Harps argument. And Longford, FFS. (No offence to Longford fans!)

That said, I'd probably go with Magiure ahead of Madden if we needed to bring another forward into the squad, but there wouldn't be much in it. In my opinion, obviously.

[Olé Olé]

Sooo...at the end of all that, Adam Rooney, with two-and-a half seasons with a scoring rate of a goal every 1.77 games, seems to be the right option to come in for now

I just find it impossible to overlook his scoring record in the Championship and L1 where he clearly struggled. Eoin Doyle absolutely torched L1 whereas Rooney struggled. Obviously there are other variables when comparing Aberdeen/SPL form to Brum/Championship and Odlham/L1 form.

[TrapAPony]

I just find it impossible to overlook his scoring record in the Championship and L1 where he clearly struggled. Eoin Doyle absolutely torched L1 whereas Rooney struggled. Obviously there are other variables when comparing Aberdeen/SPL form to Brum/Championship and Odlham/L1 form.

Agreed. We have serious problems upfront. Only going to get worse if nothing is done soon about it.

[DeLorean]

So I guess realistically this is probably the team for Thursday anyway? Only possible change would be risking McCarthy instead of Whelan but that seems unlikely. Maybe Duffy could come back in also. For all the withdrawals, I don't think it would have been any different anyway so it's more the bench that has been weakened and the potential to freshen things up for Moldova.

http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2016/10/1516056_Ireland.jpg

[TrapAPony]

So I guess realistically this is probably the team for Thursday anyway? Only possible change would be risking McCarthy instead of Whelan but that seems unlikely. Maybe Duffy could come back in also. For all the withdrawals, I don't think it would have been any different anyway so it's more the bench that has been weakened and the potential to freshen things up for Moldova.

http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2016/10/1516056_Ireland.jpg


I think Clark will partner O'Shea at the back...Brady will play in the Hoolahan role...and McClean will start left wing...

[DeLorean]

Actually those changes kind of reinforce the point that we're not quite as depleted as the number of withdrawals suggest.

I'd prefer McClean as a sub, especially in these type of games where a bit of craft more than brute force is needed. I'm not sure O'Neill will see any reason to drop Keogh but I wouldn't mind if he did. I really hope you're wrong about Hoolahan not playing.

[SkStu]

would there be anything to be said for a Joe Mason call up?

[musicinmouth]

I can't make the game, so if anybody in Cork needs 2 tickets, I have 2 great seats in Block 103 for face value (109 on the receipt). Just send me a private message.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

would there be anything to be said for a Joe Mason call up?

I think O'Neill implied that he wasn't committed.

[CraftyToePoke]

I think O'Neill implied that he wasn't committed.

Interesting, do you have any quote or link ?

[DeLorean]

He seemed committed enough earlier this year. (http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/sport/irishfootball/6930669/Joe-Mason-hopes-club-form-makes-Martin-ONeill-sit-up-and-take-notice.html)

O'Neill was supposed to be having another look at him, but I don't know if he's mentioned him since this. (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2016/06/28/martin-oneill-considers-wolves-striker-joe-mason-for-ireland/)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Interesting, do you have any quote or link ?

Can't link but it's today's article in Independent: Striking concerns as O'Neill gears up for battle.

[DeLorean]

Interesting alright (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/striking-concern-as-martin-oneill-gears-up-for-battle-35100594.html), very odd and vague. They could have really asked him to elaborate further on that, if they didn't. Did Mason just want a Euro call up?!


There is no update on the pursuit of Brentford's Scott Hogan, and the 64-year-old added that there could be some doubts surrounding the intentions of Wolves attacker Joe Mason despite the fact he was capped up to U-21 level.

[geysir]

Dan could have added the words O'Neill spoke about Joe Mason to the article, otherwise don't mention it all,
what we are left with it, is something sinister implied, left hanging in the air and that's poor journalism.


Should there be doubts on Joe's behalf, then he should have been informed that he won't be asked twice.

[samhaydenjr]

Is there a case for Madden to be called up ahead of Maguire playing only in League One? It's hardly a higher standard to what Maguire is playing.

There's every bit the case for Maguire ahead of, or at least on equal footing to, an injury prone Best, reserve players in Stokes and Madden and even Adam Rooney, as the SPL is not of a higher playing standard to LOI Premier, no matter what argument you put out.

I do hope Maguire can build on his season and get another chance to make it at a high level across the water, but, while I don't want to denigrate the LOI Premier, there are clear reasons why the SPL can be considered to be of a higher standard and why Adam Rooney's SPL record can be considered to indicate that he is, currently at least, a better striking option than Sean Maguire:

- Scotland is ranked 21 by UEFA, Republic of Ireland 40
- Average salary of SPL in 2014, 182789 pounds (http://the18.com/news/study-reveals-average-salaries-biggest-leagues-around-world) average salary in LOI in 2015, 16000 euros (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fall-in-wages-shows-tough-irish-reality-31144122.html). Now I know that salary differentials are not an accurate indicator of gaps in ability, but they do indicate that there is a clear difference, especially when the salary levels in the LOI indicate that Maguire may be scoring goals against semi-professional players.
- Most of Aberdeen's players have international experience up to U-21 level at least with a number of full internationals, whereas Cork City have three or four.
- There has been at least one SPL team in the group stages of the Champions League in 10 of the last 13 years




I just find it impossible to overlook his scoring record in the Championship and L1 where he clearly struggled. Eoin Doyle absolutely torched L1 whereas Rooney struggled. Obviously there are other variables when comparing Aberdeen/SPL form to Brum/Championship and Odlham/L1 form.

I think that the long-term nature of Rooney's form still gives him the edge. I feel that if he got a late chance to get a winning goal against Georgia, the confidence he has built up from scoring 64 times over the last two-and-a-half seasons would make him more apt to tuck it away than Doyle, who has lost his scoring habit since his streak for Chesterfield. Now I know Doyle is playing at Championship level, so if he went on a serious scoring run later in the season, he may climb above Rooney in the pecking order, but for now Rooney's form makes him the better option, IMO

[nigel-harps1954]

I do hope Maguire can build on his season and get another chance to make it at a high level across the water, but, while I don't want to denigrate the LOI Premier, there are clear reasons why the SPL can be considered to be of a higher standard and why Adam Rooney's SPL record can be considered to indicate that he is, currently at least, a better striking option than Sean Maguire:

- Scotland is ranked 21 by UEFA, Republic of Ireland 40
- Average salary of SPL in 2014, 182789 pounds (http://the18.com/news/study-reveals-average-salaries-biggest-leagues-around-world) average salary in LOI in 2015, 16000 euros (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fall-in-wages-shows-tough-irish-reality-31144122.html). Now I know that salary differentials are not an accurate indicator of gaps in ability, but they do indicate that there is a clear difference, especially when the salary levels in the LOI indicate that Maguire may be scoring goals against semi-professional players.
- Most of Aberdeen's players have international experience up to U-21 level at least with a number of full internationals, whereas Cork City have three or four.
- There has been at least one SPL team in the group stages of the Champions League in 10 of the last 13 years




I don't think any of the above really has anything to do with standard between the leagues. I take Pineapple Stus point regarding teams like Longford and Finn Harps being part time sides and not of the same standard, but the top half of the LOI Premier is certainly equivalent to SPL outside of maybe Celtic, and I'd even fancy Dundalk to beat Celtic this year.

Salary has nothing to do with it. Salary is different because Scottish football is supported in Scotland and have big money TV deals worth £15 million a year, top flight clubs get £3.75 million a year from TV the deal with Sky and BT. There's £3 million for winning the SPL down to just under £1 million for finishing in last place. Irish clubs don't get anything from TV coverage in comparison, and the winners of the League of Ireland get €120,000 this season, which is improved on recent seasons. 12th place gets €20,000. Easier to afford bigger salaries on the sort of money SPL teams get for simply taking part.

UEFA ranking is down to Celtic. Scotland is ranked 22nd at the minute, Ireland is 37th. Despite the absolutely astronomical differences in finances, that Ireland is only 15 places behind Scotland (bumped up the rankings because of Celtics regular CL appearances), is quite good.
If you want to look at rankings, Celtic are 44th and well above any LOI side, but after that Aberdeen & Motherwell joint 201st, St Johnstone 207th, Hearts 230th, Hibs & Dundee 267th and Inverness 289th.
In comparison, LOI sides, Dundalk 227th (one win would put them above all the rest of the SPL sides bar Celtic), St Pats 285th, Sligo 327th, Shamrock Rovers 333rd and Cork 355th aren't a huge bit different, despite the fact the LOI starts off with a much, much smaller country co-efficient points compared to the head start Scottish sides get which can make up a whole load of places easily in the rankings.

Cork have three or four with international experience? I count at least 9 with either full caps or under-21 caps, three of which are current under-21 squad members.

At least one SPL team in group stages okay, but how many times has a team outside of Celtic qualified for a group stage of either Europa or CL in the past 10 years? Since 2011-12 season, there's been two Irish sides in Group stage action. Outside of Celtic, there's been no Scottish teams in the same period.

[pineapple stu]

the top half of the LOI Premier is certainly equivalent to SPL outside of maybe Celtic
That's a huge difference to what you said originally. And I still don't know if I agree. Would Bray or Sligo compete in the SPL?

I don't think the European coefficient rankings are a great indicator of strength; they often take very few games, especially if one club has only been in Europe once in the past five years, say. Also, Pat's coefficient is based in part on games from five years ago - they're a much weaker side now.


Salary has nothing to do with it. Salary is different because Scottish football is supported in Scotland.
There's a history of LoI players moving to the SPL.

If they were good enough at present, the SPL would sign them, and higher wages would mean they'd be very likely to be taken up. But there's nobody moving that way recently.


UEFA ranking is down to Celtic. Scotland is ranked 22nd at the minute, Ireland is 37th. Despite the absolutely astronomical differences in finances, that Ireland is only 15 places behind Scotland (bumped up the rankings because of Celtics regular CL appearances), is quite good.
You can't dismiss Scotland's ranking as being "down to Celtic" (which is true) and not note that Ireland's ranking is down to Dundalk. We were 46th this year before Dundalk's campaign got going.

[nigel-harps1954]

That's a huge difference to what you said originally. And I still don't know if I agree. Would Bray or Sligo compete in the SPL?

Are they any worse than, say, Inverness or Partick Thistle? I don't think so. Far too much respect being awarded to very average sides in Scotland methinks.


There's a history of LoI players moving to the SPL.

If they were good enough at present, the SPL would sign them, and higher wages would mean they'd be very likely to be taken up. But there's nobody moving that way recently.

Maybe the interest is still there, but players aren't willing to make the move there?



You can't dismiss Scotland's ranking as being "down to Celtic" (which is true) and not note that Ireland's ranking is down to Dundalk. We were 46th this year before Dundalk's campaign got going.

Ireland started in 41st this year. My point was simply that taking out Celtic would have the two on a much more even footing in the rankings.

[pineapple stu]

Are they any worse than, say, Inverness or Partick Thistle? I don't think so. Far too much respect being awarded to very average sides in Scotland methinks.
Full-time v part-time on its own will make a big difference over a full league season. So I would say Bray and Sligo would be worse than ICT and Partick.


Maybe the interest is still there, but players aren't willing to make the move there?
Why wouldn't they move for an average salary of £180k? Or even half that?


Ireland started in 41st this year.
We dropped as low as 46th during the season, before Dundalk got going.


My point was simply that taking out Celtic would have the two on a much more even footing in the rankings.
I know. And I pointed out that you can't do that and leave Dundalk in. Dundalk bias our ranking the same way Celtic bias the SPL's ranking. Had Dundalk been knocked out by FH after two draws, the LoI would now be 42nd in Europe.

[geysir]

Why wouldn't they move for an average salary of £180k? Or even half that?

It would be about half that figure at best.
Average spl salary figures are misleading. The spl is one of the most unequal leagues in Europe when it comes to salaries, here's some recent figures average salaries paid by clubs (http://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/celtic/1321105-celtics-average-wage-bill-is-25-times-higher-than-ross-countys/)


Here's a bit useless tittle tattle but on-thread tittle tattle.
Georgia's new coach is Vladimir Weiss, who has a father named Vladimir Weiss and a son named Vladimir Weiss, all footballers.

[Stuttgart88]

Vladdy Weiss
Vladdy Weiss
Vladdy Vladdy Weiss
He gets the ball...

I think I made this joke before. You need to be a Rovers / LOI fan from the 80s.

[pineapple stu]

It would be about half that figure at best.
Yeah, I knew Celtic would skew it alright, though didn't think it'd be quite as bad as those figures show.

Hard to know how, say, players just up from the underage structure and on the fringes of the first-team affect that - and it's not even stated if that's a 52-week contract, though I presume it is.

Still, if you were on, say, E750 a week here for 35 weeks and were offered £1,500 a week for 52 weeks, would you move? I'd say the majority would.

[Stuttgart88]

It would be about half that figure at best.
Average spl salary figures are misleading. The spl is one of the most unequal leagues in Europe when it comes to salaries, here's some recent figures average salaries paid by clubs (http://stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/celtic/1321105-celtics-average-wage-bill-is-25-times-higher-than-ross-countys/)


Here's a bit useless tittle tattle but on-thread tittle tattle.
Georgia's new coach is Vladimir Weiss, who has a father named Vladimir Weiss and a son named Vladimir Weiss, all footballers.Not as good as Wolfgang Wolf of Wolfsburg though :)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Randolph
Coleman, Keogh, O'Shea, Ward
McClean, Hendrick, McCarthy (Whelan), Brady
Hoolahan
Long

I think that's the best team to get a result in view of the opposition. A team that can get the best out of all our players. Whelan and McCarthy do their best work when they don't play together. Whelan and a McCarthy functioning at 75% capacity is a nightmare on paper. It's a team that can get the best out of both Hoolahan and Long. It's a young enough team from the midfield on, with McClean, Brady, Hendrick and Long's legs to bounce off Hoolahan, along with McCarthy's engine.

We don't want a situation like the Scotland match in Dublin where you have four players in their mid-thirties all starting from the midfield onwards and there is no fluidity or pace. It completely invalidates starting Hoolahan.

Of course, Walters will start tomorrow so this is all null and void. It's just a question of where he is shoehorned in and who he replaces. Does he replace McClean? Does he start instead of Hoolahan and partner Long up top? Does he play off Long?

[nigel-harps1954]

Full-time v part-time on its own will make a big difference over a full league season. So I would say Bray and Sligo would be worse than ICT and Partick.

Bray and Sligo aren't part-time. Bray have a huge wage bill this year in fact, relative to their income and stature from what I am led to believe.



Why wouldn't they move for an average salary of £180k? Or even half that?

As per the figures posted above, why would Ger Bolger move to Scotland and uproot his family for potentially only £1,000 a week? Is it really worth it for him? He'd be as well at home on €500 or €600 at Cork.



We dropped as low as 46th during the season, before Dundalk got going.


I know. And I pointed out that you can't do that and leave Dundalk in. Dundalk bias our ranking the same way Celtic bias the SPL's ranking. Had Dundalk been knocked out by FH after two draws, the LoI would now be 42nd in Europe.

That's a fair point to a certain extent, but Celtic are only taken out because of the huge gulf in finances, equivalent to a top half English Premier Division club. If they were spending such fortunes and not succeeding in Europe, there'd be serious questions to be asked. The rest of the SPL don't have that, and that's where I'm comparing them to Dundalk and the other LOI sides in Europe. You could argue Dundalk to be taken out next season due to their financial windfall, but this year, they're on fairly even footing with the top four or five clubs in the league of Ireland financially so I left them involved in the discussion.

[pineapple stu]

Bray are part-time; not sure about Sligo. There's a difference between having a big wage budget and being full-time.

Does Bolger have a family? (I don't know) Many LoI players would be happy to go for a 52-week contract and the chance of career progression. The chance to play in Parkhead, maybe get spotted and move on like Sammon/Hoolahan. Lots of reasons. And if he goes from €500 to £1,000 a week as you suggest (and I appreciate these are makey-uppey figures), then he's more than doubled his salary - even assuming Cork are on 52-week contracts (which they might be if they're full time?). Not all players will want to, but I still think more would take such an offer than not.


You could argue Dundalk to be taken out next season due to their financial windfall, but this year, they're on fairly even footing with the top four or five clubs in the league of Ireland financially so I left them involved in the discussion.
Dundalk are one team skewing the standings, and don't speak for the entire league, or how Pat's/Galway/Bohs - lower mid-table teams - would fare in the SPL. That's my point. By all means take Celtic out when looking at UEFA rankings - but you have to take Dundalk out for a fair comparison then.

[OwlsFan]

Vladdy Weiss
Vladdy Weiss
Vladdy Vladdy Weiss
He gets the ball...

I think I made this joke before. You need to be a Rovers / LOI fan from the 80s.

I followed Rovers in the 1980s and I am struggling to relate to this one. Give us a clue.

It's not connected to

He shoots
he missed
he must be feckin pi*sed
Glory oh, glory oh

by any chance?