Fingal Project? [Archive]

fionnsci

19/08/2016, 10:10 PM

There's a major opportunity for a club to relocate to the Swords area. The Tallaght blueprint worked for Rovers (ups and downs notwithstanding). There's a massive and expanding catchment area there just waiting to be taken advantage of. I think either a new club, an existing local club or a current League of Ireland club (Shels) should try to establish themselves there. I'm sure Fingal County Council would love a modest stadium and club of their own given that SDCC and DCC soon will.

redarmyfaction

19/08/2016, 10:15 PM

You read my mind. Was there a lad who used to post on here called The Lep or something like that...

Aye, The Lep is right,what was the other called.

pineapple stu

19/08/2016, 10:18 PM

Lamper.sffc I think.

Gone the way of SuperGretna once things didn't work out quite how they predicted.

BonnieShels

19/08/2016, 10:43 PM

The Lep and Lamper is right. And then there was born2bwild, but he joined the dark side down in Tolka thereafter.

total hoofball

19/08/2016, 11:04 PM

redarmyfaction

20/08/2016, 12:27 AM

The Lep and Lamper were meant to be brothers they lived with their mother and took turns on the computer to post at each other on the SF sub forum here, there was posts on one of our old forums about then.

ger121

20/08/2016, 1:02 AM

What ever happened to that Sheridan guy. Was a Dublin City Fan and then switched to Shels.

legendz

20/08/2016, 7:14 AM

Back in 2003 Shels were meeting with Fingal councillors. Were Shels supporters in favour of the move? What's the story with Shels these days... are they staying put in Tolka Park?

Philosophizer

20/08/2016, 8:12 AM

Back in 2003 Shels were meeting with Fingal councillors. Were Shels supporters in favour of the move? What's the story with Shels these days... are they staying put in Tolka Park?

Tolka is owned by DCC as far as i know, but Shels have a lease on it which doesn't expire for about 50 yrs. Shels want DCC to invest in Tolka to bring it up to code. Tolka is is an awful state of disrepair at the moment - only 2 stands can be open for safety reasons, the main stand is in a bad state too. I can't ever see DCC putting any money into Tolka. There would be no point for them. DCC are committed to redeveloping Dalymount so they're obviously not going to put any money into another ground nearby. They want Dalyer to be their flagship ground, like Tallaght is for SDCC. The FAI have said on many occasions that they'd like Shels to groundshare with Bohs but Shels are still holding out hoping for something to be done with Tolka afaik.

legendz

20/08/2016, 8:53 AM

Yeah, makes sense for DCC to only invest in one ground. Dalymount Park has history. Shels were flirting with Fingal.

I know there are four local authorities: Dublin City Council, South Dublin County Council, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council and Fingal County Council. What area is Richmond Park in? It seemed understandable for Fingal to undergo a stadium project similar to South Dublin. A municipal stadia with a LoI club as main tenant.

Philosophizer

20/08/2016, 10:02 AM

What area is Richmond Park in?

Richmond park is in Inchicore, south of the liffey - in the west part of Dublin city council.

Purely in terms of geography it's a terrible shame that Rovers ever left Milltown. It's right in the centre of south-side Dublin - an ideal location for a LOI club with a 360 degree catchment area of half a million ppl. To have such a huge population in south central and south east Dublin with no major LOI club (no offence to UCD or Cabo) is an awful pity. At one stage we had 2 - rovers and shels!!

legendz

20/08/2016, 10:14 AM

White Horse

20/08/2016, 10:28 AM

Fingal had a nice team and played really good football. If you look at their lineup, with Williams, Finn, Byrne, Zyed etc., they would challenge for the title in the current league.

Philosophizer

20/08/2016, 12:47 PM

From an outsider looking in it would seem fair for DCC to help out St. Pat's in Richmond Park as well. It would look after north and south of the city. What do Pat's make of Bohs and Shels being helped out by their city council?

Well, first of all lets get 1 thing straight, Shels dont feel that they're being done any favours by DCC. They want to stay in Tolka but it's been left to fall apart.

All in all, I don't think Pats are too annoyed about it because they've got more money than Bohs and Shels so they haven't been major competitors for honours for a few years now. Kellegher funds Pats and they've got an ok little ground so all in all I think their content enough.

fionnsci

20/08/2016, 1:37 PM

Do Shels have any solid plans for the future other than hope that DCC have a change of heart regarding Tolka? I would worry about a groundshare in Dublin so hope they don't move in with Bohs. Other than the immediate hardcore, clubs in Dublin don't have widespread community loyalties that make such situation viable. It's not like Milan where everyone is going to support one of the two teams. I'm not sure that support for two teams playing in one ground would survive a few decades in Dublin.

A Shelbourne + Fingal CoCo collaboration in Swords would be massive for the league. It's the 7th largest town/city in the country and only getting bigger, no League of Ireland team, and it's far enough from the city that there'd be no real competition with any other team.

BonnieShels

20/08/2016, 1:46 PM

If Fingal Co Co were serious about establishing a football club in the area they would have joined forces with an established clubs such as Shels or Bohs

They chose to instead of going it alone with funding from a shady property developer who himself conveniently was dependent on planning permission in that region being granted by Fungal Co Co...

Sporting Fingal was the greatest vanity project in LOI history, they spent stupid sums of money on wages for 3 years for absolutely nothing and the day they ceased to exist was one of the few positives for the LOI since 2011

They were an absolute sore on the league. As bad as we had been and Bohs and every body else making a pigs ear of it, that SF were allowed to do what they did and how they did it was a disgrace and in fact ensured other teams were at a disadvantage. Their failure and collapse was one of the greatest days supporting this league. That Fingal Co Co were able to spunk that much cash at them without any issue is bizarre.

The Lep and Lamper were meant to be brothers they lived with their mother and took turns on the computer to post at each other on the SF sub forum here, there was posts on one of our old forums about then.

Explains how odd they were on here.

Back in 2003 Shels were meeting with Fingal councillors. Were Shels supporters in favour of the move? What's the story with Shels these days... are they staying put in Tolka Park?

Fingal were meeting with everyone. Don't forget were Bohs new ground was to be.

Yeah, makes sense for DCC to only invest in one ground. Dalymount Park has history. Shels were flirting with Fingal.

I know there are four local authorities: Dublin City Council, South Dublin County Council, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council and Fingal County Council. What area is Richmond Park in? It seemed understandable for Fingal to undergo a stadium project similar to South Dublin. A municipal stadia with a LoI club as main tenant.

We should move to Dalymount but I can understand the reticence. Our core support is already dwindling.

Fingal had a nice team and played really good football. If you look at their lineup, with Williams, Finn, Byrne, Zyed etc., they would challenge for the title in the current league.

Go way giving them compliments. :P

nigel-harps1954

20/08/2016, 2:08 PM

A Shelbourne + Fingal CoCo collaboration in Swords would be massive for the league. It's the 7th largest town/city in the country and only getting bigger, no League of Ireland team, and it's far enough from the city that there'd be no real competition with any other team.

This for me is bang on the money. I can't figure out why the likes of Shelbourne don't look into this, especially now given their attendances have fallen to sh!te, their ground has fallen into disrepair, and they're stuck as a mid-table First Division club. They should forget about hanging onto the memories and glory days in Tolka and start fresh out in Swords or even Malahide.

legendz

20/08/2016, 2:11 PM

Fingal were meeting with everyone. Don't forget were Bohs new ground was to be.

We should move to Dalymount
I have forgotten where was Bohs ground going to be!
Is Dalymount Park the best option for ye? A previous poster has suggested Swords or is that too far away for ye're core support...

fionnsci

20/08/2016, 2:57 PM

Shels have already moved from their traditional home once. As have Rovers, though under different circumstances. Also, I know that Metro North (IF, and I know how big an if that is, it happens - though it is currently in planning) is ten years away but it is going to have a stop in Drumcondra and three in the Swords area.

Philosophizer

20/08/2016, 3:51 PM

This for me is bang on the money. I can't figure out why the likes of Shelbourne don't look into this, especially now given their attendances have fallen to sh!te, their ground has fallen into disrepair, and they're stuck as a mid-table First Division club. They should forget about hanging onto the memories and glory days in Tolka and start fresh out in Swords or even Malahide.

Yep i've pondered the same thing a few times myself. Or they could even move back to the south side, you know, where shelbourne actually is. As ive mentioned earlier there's a massive population in south dublin and eastern south Dublin who arent served by a LOI club. they might hop on board a storied club with a glittering history. They could look into playing at Donnybrook stadium or Shelbourne greyhound stadium. Both are nice little venues and way better than the dump that Tolka has become. They wouldn't be competing with any other clubs for fans either coz Pats, Bohs and Rovers would be a fair bit away.

TonyD

20/08/2016, 4:26 PM

Sporting Fingal was the greatest vanity project in LOI history, they spent stupid sums of money on wages for 3 years for absolutely nothing and the day they ceased to exist was one of the few positives for the LOI since 2011

I'll see your Sporting Fingal and raise you Dublin City FC. Maybe not in terms of money spent, but certainly in terms of a vanity project.

Nesta99

20/08/2016, 5:47 PM

It has been years since I've been at Home Farm so memory the place is vague; Is their scope for any sort of development in Whitehall? Even a small 4k place for example in exchange for the lease on Tolka being given up totally. Home Farm would hardly want back in to senior football so Shels are no threat and maybe look to appeal to the old Drumcondra brand?

BonnieShels

20/08/2016, 6:07 PM

The only move that Shels fans generally want is one back to Ringsend.

As mentioned above ground-sharing with Bohs would be a near death sentence (but one I would welcome, even in the interim while we sort out a permanent move) but moving to Swords or Malahide especially with the taint of Fungus about the place is not a goer. We're not really in a position to be choosers but to disregard all that went before (bad and good) is rather incredible a suggestion.

What is a football club but a collection of history?

nigel-harps1954

20/08/2016, 6:18 PM

Maybe a move to Irishtown stadium would be a sensible one for Shels?

Philosophizer

20/08/2016, 6:39 PM

If Shels do move back south of the liffey Bohs would be in a great position to prosper. They would be the only club on the north side, slap back in the centre of the north city.

jinxy lilywhite

20/08/2016, 6:50 PM

Lads probably off topic but since we are talking about defunct clubs
Whatever happened to drumcondra bohs or are they current bohs?

redarmyfaction

20/08/2016, 7:42 PM

Lads probably off topic but since we are talking about defunct clubs
Whatever happened to drumcondra bohs or are they current bohs?

Bohemians are Bohemians, Drumcondra so beloved of Dunphy were a separate team, never heard of Drumcondra Bohs?????

Philosophizer

20/08/2016, 7:53 PM

Yep Drumcondra were a separate club - one of the big Dublin clubs back in the day apparently. According to Wikipedia they merged with Home Farm in 1972.

Bohs have always been Bohs.

legendz

21/08/2016, 9:08 AM

There's a major opportunity for a club to relocate to the Swords area. I'm sure Fingal County Council would love a modest stadium and club of their own given that SDCC and DCC soon will.
If a new club wants to join the league they should look at joining the underage leagues.
The U19 league currently has the 20 LoI clubs competing in it. The U17 league has 19 LoI clubs (minus Galway), Mervue United, Salthill Devon, Monaghan United Cavan FP and Kerry.
Monaghan/Cavan and Kerry are probably the start of new clubs coming on board. It's usually the way things have started off in the old U21 league and A Championship.

Martinho II

21/08/2016, 2:15 PM

Yep Drumcondra were a separate club - one of the big Dublin clubs back in the day apparently. According to Wikipedia they merged with Home Farm in 1972.

Bohs have always been Bohs.

We played the newer version of Drumcondra this yr in the LSC. according to their website its still the original club but they broke away from Home Farm from the merger and went to the LSL instead. Gary Howlett ex Shels is mgr of them!

sparky12345678

21/08/2016, 3:58 PM

I lived on Santry Avenue. So attending my local LOI club involved supporting Sporting Fingal. Politics/economics aside, Sporting Fingal by that third year was starting to form a solid fan base/community which usually came in from Swords. They had initiatives in place with local schools and clubs in and around swords as well. The potential still exists to capitalise on the population centers out that way. Clubs should be built on local identities and theres definitely a distinct Fingal identity once you start getting out past the airport... google maps basically agrees
http://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2453&stc=1

I have become a bit removed from the LOI (physically since i am based in Austria atm) while I support the LOI as a whole as best i can (esp for example in europe) and I probably lean towards Bohs if any I obv dont have a strong allegiance. How do you propose to gain fans and build that identity and sense of community around clubs?

legendz

21/08/2016, 4:31 PM

Amazing. 6 LoI clubs in Dublin and there are areas without what they might consider a local LoI club representating that area.

I have become a bit removed from the LOI (physically since i am based in Austria atm)
Austria is a great country. Been to Steirmark a few times and going back there again next month.

GUFCghost

21/08/2016, 4:56 PM

Is Harold's Cross an option?I know alteration's might have to be made to the pitch,but both Shels and Irish Greyhound Board are broke so it's seems like a good match

Philosophizer

21/08/2016, 5:20 PM

Amazing. 6 LoI clubs in Dublin and there are areas without what they might consider a local LoI club representating that area.

Well the borough of Dun Laoighre-Rathdown has 250k souls, and they finally got a LOI team in Cabinteely a couple of years ago, yet still only about 200 ppl turn up for their games so having a club to represent each council may not necessarily guarantee of a big gate. And Cabo are supposed to be v community orientated etc. In fairness tho Cabo probably aren't helped by the fact that they play in Blackrock rather than in Cabinteely itself, and lets face it most LOI fans in DL-Rathdown probably already supports Rovers, Pats, Shels or UCD.

When you look back in time tho maybe there's a good reason why the 4 main LOI clubs to evolve in Dublin were Rovers, Shels, Bohs and Pats. They were spacially positioned v well so that they each represented a side of the city. And none of them were too close to each other so that they competed for fans.
For most of the last 100 years Dublin was quite a small compact city. (Places like Tallaght, Cabinteely, Swords etc were rural villages out in the countryside.)
So from the 1920s when the league began up until the 70s approx, Pats would have represented the west side of the city (they were based in the Phoenix park for a brief stage then moved to Inchicore). Rovers were slap back in the centre of the south in Milltown. Bohs have always been right in the middle of the northside, and Shelbourne were located in the east of the city.

Not like the mess we have now where Bohs and Shels are practically next door neighbours, any Shams abandoned their brilliant original location to move out to a suburb.

legendz

21/08/2016, 5:35 PM

If the areas around the big smoke aren't being looked after there's not much hope for us in a rural county. The Oscar Traynor Cup it is then in terms of pursuing glory!

Nesta99

21/08/2016, 7:15 PM

Yep Drumcondra were a separate club - one of the big Dublin clubs back in the day apparently. According to Wikipedia they merged with Home Farm in 1972.

Bohs have always been Bohs.

Hence my question above. Unless Shels can find a process to move back to their origins taking on in some way the Drumcondra (long enough in Tolka to have put down a new set of roots) mantle could be an option in some way. I dont see really how Shels being where they are would have affected Bohs really, it is not as if Shels were playing in front of weekly gates of 5000 who otherwise would have been in Dalymount. I agree that Shels would end up on long term life support if in a Groundshare with Bohs. But the current status quo isnt healthy either so something has to happen11

legendz

21/08/2016, 7:29 PM

Shels would end up on long term life support if in a Groundshare with Bohs.
That'll definitely be the case.

Seeing as Shels have been northside for decades, they may as well go further north to Swords. If Cabinteely is in the south-eastern part of Dublin it should mean there will be a club in the 3 administrative counties and two either side of the Liffey in the city council catchment area + the students.

BonnieShels

21/08/2016, 9:00 PM

That'll definitely be the case.

Seeing as Shels have been northside for decades, they may as well go further north to Swords. If Cabinteely is in the south-eastern part of Dublin it should mean there will be a club in the 3 administrative counties and two either side of the Liffey in the city council catchment area + the students.

The students are in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown as well.

As it might come as a surprise, very few of us Dubs look to our council as a reference point for our cultural identity. While there might be a certain sense, a Fingal identity to some extent (hurling, cricket) there is in its hoop such a differentiation as to use them as reasons to divvy up our teams.

And as for Shels "might as well move to Swords" crap, give over the shiite talk would ya.

Philosophizer

21/08/2016, 9:16 PM

very few of us Dubs look to our council as a reference point for our cultural identity.

Yep, this!! The Dublin council borders dont carry anything like the weight of our county/provincial borders.

Imho the most important element to look at when thinking about any new/relocating LOI clubs would be population and making sure you're not too close to an already existing club.

legendz

22/08/2016, 6:08 AM

The students are in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown as well.

As it might come as a surprise, very few of us Dubs look to our council as a reference point for our cultural identity. While there might be a certain sense, a Fingal identity to some extent (hurling, cricket) there is in its hoop such a differentiation as to use them as reasons to divvy up our teams.

And as for Shels "might as well move to Swords" crap, give over the shiite talk would ya.
Might as well move is in the same context as someone earlier suggesting moving back the other side of the Liffey. There's such a thing as rolling discussion. In terms of divvying up teams, that's not the point. If Shels are looking at moving, and they've looked towards Fingal before, it is shrewd to move where they will have the sole support of a council. It's not the only factor to consider. If they've no desire to move there naturally it will not happen! Enjoy watching your local LoI team in action and have a nice day! :)

Philosophizer

22/08/2016, 9:49 AM

marinobohs

22/08/2016, 11:11 AM

Fingal council were certainly in favour of having a LOI team back in the day when they were talking about a stadium in Swords, but whether that desire still exists is another matter entirely. I haven't heard anything about it in years...

The inquest in Fingal CO CO over the Sporting Fingal debacle still sends shudders through the officials, so would not hold my breath waiting on Council to get involved in football any time soon.

The FAI and Dublin Co Co want Shels to move into Dalymunt. So don't expect any assistance in maintaining Tolka Park from those quarters.
Shels felt they had leverage by refusing to move to Tolka (Council, initially indicated it as both teams or none) and Shels refusal seriously risked the existence of Bohs (who needed the deal to pay off Zurich).

I suspect, as do most people, that Shels will eventually be forced into moving into Dalymount. The delay in doing so 9unless they have a viable option) will hurt whatever potential they have to develop a fan base as the revamped stadium will become linked solely with Bohs. they would be better to move now and try and put down some roots with a view to attract some of the 'new support' that will be attracted to the new shiny stadium when it eventually comes to fruition.

Charlie Darwin

22/08/2016, 11:39 AM

Maybe a move to Irishtown stadium would be a sensible one for Shels?
Won't happen as long as the people who live there live there.

BonnieShels

22/08/2016, 2:44 PM

Might as well move is in the same context as someone earlier suggesting moving back the other side of the Liffey. There's such a thing as rolling discussion. In terms of divvying up teams, that's not the point. If Shels are looking at moving, and they've looked towards Fingal before, it is shrewd to move where they will have the sole support of a council. It's not the only factor to consider. If they've no desire to move there naturally it will not happen! Enjoy watching your local LoI team in action and have a nice day! :)

Moving to Irishtown/Ringsend has merit and is worth discussing from the POV that we're from there.

The inevitability of moving to Dalyer is that, inevitable.

I'm sure we'll come around to it eventually. We're always slow on the uptake down in Drumcondra.

You'll note I said uptake, not "on the take". We were great at that.

Philosophizer

22/08/2016, 3:20 PM

Moving to Irishtown/Ringsend has merit and is worth discussing from the POV that we're from there.

What ground would be the best option? Shelbourne park perhaps, or Irishtown stadium?

Otherwise, what would the Shels faithful think of moving even further south of Shelbourne itself, possibly into the RDS or even Donnybrook stadium? Either or them would seem like a decent location, right in the heart of the south side surrounded by massive population, and either of those stadia would be lovely for a LOI club. Donnybrook might be pushing it as it's about a mile south of Shelbourne, but it's still probably closer to Shelbourne than Drumcondra.

On a slightly related topic. Does anyone know why Rovers didn't make the RDS their permanent home after Milltown? I know they had a relatively stable 5/6 year spell there in the 90s and it's probably no coincidence that they won their only league of the homeless era there. It's in a very advantageous location for a LOI club. Could they not afford the rent, or did the RDs society not want a permanent football tenant?

legendz

22/08/2016, 6:26 PM

What ground would be the best option? Shelbourne park perhaps, or Irishtown stadium?

Otherwise, what would the Shels faithful think of moving even further south of Shelbourne itself, possibly into the RDS or even Donnybrook stadium?
Moving into the RDS will be like Limerick in Thomond Park.
I'd be curious to know if Shels core members and supporters were voting on Dalymount Park or moving back southside, which way would they most likely go?