Liam Kelly (M Feyenoord (loaned to Oxford) b.1995)

[seanfhear]

O’Neill needs to realise / be told that the Ireland Mangers Job is a bigger Job than Him . He is just the Current Custodian .

Confidence is a good thing but arrogance is no good to man or beast .

[jbyrne]

O’Neill needs to realise / be told that the Ireland Mangers Job is a bigger Job than Him . He is just the Current Custodian .

Confidence is a good thing but arrogance is no good to man or beast .

where exactly is the MO'N arrogance in relation to Liam Kelly (the subject of this discussion)??

[seanfhear]

where exactly is the MO'N arrogance in relation to Liam Kelly (the subject of this discussion)??
More the personality of Martin O Neill’s generally .

If he has interacted with Liam Kelly as he has done in other situations as Ireland Manager then how do we know how the chemistry worked .

Martin has confidence but can also be arrogant . Martin not declaring himself quickly as un-available for some of these jobs he has been touted for is an example of his arrogance .

I could not see a player of Kelly's physical stature getting much of a look in for Competitive matches under Martin O’ Neill . Maybe Kelly was correct to ‘Swerve ‘ O’Neill’s call .

[tetsujin1979]

listening to Keith Andrews on last night's Off The Ball podcast, and they mentioned the B international against Nottingham Forest under Trapattoni where he played his heart out to get into the senior squad, and they mentioned that Sean Scannell played in that game and that he was talking about changing allegiances to the North.
It occured to me that, right now, there's as much evidence that Scannell will change allegiance as there is that Kelly will, yet we're talking about both like they will definitely happen.

[CraftyToePoke]

I agree it's a big if. It also seems unlikely that either party would reveal the contents of that message so i suspect we'll not find out exactly what was said for quite some time.


On YBIG tonight :

Kevin Palmer speaking on ‘Game On’ yesterday, confirmed that he knows Liam Kelly’s family / agent quite well, and says that at no point was MON told that Kelly was considering his England options.

Palmer also says that Reading didn’t want Kelly featuring due to a swollen ankle, and that he doesn’t see Kelly featuring in the current Ireland set-up with our current style.

Dunphy says MON needs to go and meet Kelly.

This segment begins at about 17 minutes in: http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2018/0323/20180323_rte2fm-gameon-soccerreac_c21338397_21338400_232_.mp3

[Olé Olé]

Okay so he wasn't told that. So answer your phone, pal?

[CraftyToePoke]

Okay so he wasn't told that. So answer your phone, pal?

Which I did say, or words to that effect a few posts back, about dealing with the situation respectfully & LKs failure to manage that.

Its six and two threes here but justifiable eyes on MONs decision making and communication too, already, again.

[Diggs246]

The journalist who is fighting Liams corner said something that tells me all we need to know about the players attitude. It was along the lines of Liam doesnt think he would have played if he went to Turkey. Big swinging mickey.. You go to try get selected not on the basis of some guarantee. I think MON has saved us a lot of hassle ala Grealish and exposed this guy.

[Olé Olé]

I would say that this camp offered an exponentially greater amount of benefits to someone like Kelly than a normal training camp for a couple of days in the lead up to a competitive qualifier. His failure/unwillingness to recognise this is a bit of an indictment on him, assuming all of the above is accurate.

[tetsujin1979]

FWIW Kelly misses out in Paul Clement's first squad

[DeLorean]

FWIW Kelly misses out in Paul Clement's first squad

He came on for the last half hour at Villa Park last night. Hourihane & Hogan both on the scoresheet for Villa - http://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-reading/report/375087

[backstothewall]

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/sport/16160364.Reading_FC_midfielder_Liam_Kelly_reveals_ the_real_reason_why_he_snubbed_Republic_of_Ireland/

O'Neill's assumption seems fair enough based on those comments. Certainly no other credible explanation offered.

[Ezeikial]

“It had nothing to do with feeling English or Irish, it was a personal thing between me and my family which we thought was best.“There are no ifs and buts about it, it was just how I was feeling at the time."
When asked if he could represent Republic of Ireland in the future, he replied: “We’ll see how it goes”.

No one is really any better informed as to why he turned down the call-up.

It is hardly difficult to read between the lines

[Diggs246]

"We’ll see how it goes” .....no we won't, he is a player we could do with, but not under these circumstances.

[Paddy Garcia]

Some wag made me laugh .................

https://twitter.com/rfcethan_/status/989189852557119490

[mark12345]

"We’ll see how it goes” .....no we won't, he is a player we could do with, but not under these circumstances.

Was really looking forward to Kelly playing for us. He has real ability. However I think he's going to be left in limbo if he believes he's going to play for England. Wish him the best however.

[seanfhear]

Was really looking forward to Kelly playing for us. He has real ability. However I think he's going to be left in limbo if he believes he's going to play for England. Wish him the best however.He is young . Better to give him some time to decide . I wonder does it make it slightly harder to get a contract if you are playing international football for the ‘ Not so Big ‘ countries . Afterall there are only so many going to play for England and ; Perhaps clubs may prefer their players not playing international football .

We would need some clubs and players coming clean as to how the land lies about playing international football especially for what are not considered the ‘ big international ‘ teams . Current players may be reluctant to tell all .

It would be interesting to hear the story from retired players and especially fairly recently retired players .

[irishfan86]

If that is Kelly’s logic I’d say it’s poor. A good showing at international level can mean big money for a player. I’d say Hendrick’s performance at Euro 2016 was a big reason for his 10 million pound move to Burnley that summer.

[gastric]

Using Stutt's guts and my own gastric band, I feel Kelly will end playing for us. I get O'Neill's stubbornness on the issue, I just hope there is someone who can do some mediating and convince Kelly to come on board. He certainly would be a handy asset.

[Stuttgart88]

It seems the relevant quotes have come from his club, which is unusual.

[irishfan86]

It seems the relevant quotes have come from his club, which is unusual.

I read that in the buildup to the Turkey game, Kelly was playing hurt. The club is in a relegation battle and was probably telling Ireland to feck off as they're trying to protect the player. Maybe it's as simple as short term protection of an asset and the conversation will change after the Championship season.

[colonelwest]

I read that in the buildup to the Turkey game, Kelly was playing hurt. The club is in a relegation battle and was probably telling Ireland to feck off as they're trying to protect the player. Maybe it's as simple as short term protection of an asset and the conversation will change after the Championship season.

If that was the case why not just say that though? Occam's razor and all that. If he had of said that to O'Neill he would have been fine with that and said sure we'll see how you're getting on for the next meet up then end of May/ start of June or something like that. Instead it's all ifs, buts, maybes and hedging bets with a touch of Grealishesque notions and Stephen "my two grannies" Ireland nearly thrown in.

Not to be making mountains out of molehills with his situation as of course the decision is up to himself but similar to Grealish, he's got potential, is getting poor advice from his agent to hedge his bets and he's barely avoiding relegation with Reading to League 1 and has about 30 or more other lads ahead of him in the queue to play for England. Unless he gets plucked from Reading and starts tearing it up at a bottom half of the table Premier League club in the next 2/3 years he's about as much chance of getting a game for England as Grealish has.

[elroy]

If that was the case why not just say that though? Occam's razor and all that. If he had of said that to O'Neill he would have been fine with that and said sure we'll see how you're getting on for the next meet up then end of May/ start of June or something like that. Instead it's all ifs, buts, maybes and hedging bets with a touch of Grealishesque notions and Stephen "my two grannies" Ireland nearly thrown in.

Not to be making mountains out of molehills with his situation as of course the decision is up to himself but similar to Grealish, he's got potential, is getting poor advice from his agent to hedge his bets and he's barely avoiding relegation with Reading to League 1 and has about 30 or more other lads ahead of him in the queue to play for England. Unless he gets plucked from Reading and starts tearing it up at a bottom half of the table Premier League club in the next 2/3 years he's about as much chance of getting a game for England as Grealish has.

Unfortunately as much as it pains me to say, Grealish has real talent. If he matures a little, I reckon he could be a big star in next couple of years. Shown glimpses of that potential with villa this season.

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, he is turning into a fine player. Serious talent.

[colonelwest]

Unfortunately as much as it pains me to say, Grealish has real talent. If he matures a little, I reckon he could be a big star in next couple of years. Shown glimpses of that potential with villa this season.

Agree 100%, he's always had the talent, seems to have gotten the head down and matured a bit the last year or two after his vaping and partying escapades after he broke into the Villa first team squad.

I still think though he'll at best get a couple of caps unless he really gets the head down and pushes on. In recent times the English have dropped (for want of a better word!) to looking at our top potential level of talent coming through but they still have the sheer numbers for lads to compete with to get into the senior squad.

Anyway it's the Kelly thread! We'll see what happens come end of May but I'd say we'll see no sign of him with us then either, if anything it'll be the autumn at the earliest, especially given MON's comments on it.

He has the ability and potential to make an impact pretty much straight away if he decides to keep with us with us losing lads who are retiring etc. Think we've a lot of potential over the coming years in midfield with possibly Rice anchoring, McCarthy & Hendrick (if he can get out of his funk for us) as the now senior pros in the middle and then Browne & Kelly if he sticks with us coming through. Likes of Myler, Arter & Hourihane there too gives us some decent options in CM to play around with (or over!).

[Diggs246]

Didnt make the England Squad

[seanfhear]

When I see his name up on the board I am hoping he is back on board . Is it time to move on ?

[DeLorean]

Played very well at Old Trafford this afternoon. He had the most touches of any player on the pitch (116), also most passes (90) and most tackles/interceptions (10). Solskjaer seemed to say a few words to him after the match also and mentioned that Reading had some quality players in his interview. Reading were the better side in a lot of ways but lacked a killer instinct around the box so United ran out fairly comfortable 2-0 winners.

[liamoo11]

Played very well at Old Trafford this afternoon. He had the most touches of any player on the pitch (116), also most passes (90) and most tackles/interceptions (10). Solskjaer seemed to say a few words to him after the match also and mentioned that Reading had some quality players in his interview. Reading were the better side in a lot of ways but lacked a killer instinct around the box so United ran out fairly comfortable 2-0 winners.

Good to hear. would hope he is back in March we could find a use for a technical footballer

[Razors left peg]

Played very well at Old Trafford this afternoon. He had the most touches of any player on the pitch (116), also most passes (90) and most tackles/interceptions (10). Solskjaer seemed to say a few words to him after the match also and mentioned that Reading had some quality players in his interview. Reading were the better side in a lot of ways but lacked a killer instinct around the box so United ran out fairly comfortable 2-0 winners.

Yeah I watched the game and he was constantly looking for the ball around the midfield. Really think he could be a massive player for us if he actually wants to play.... and it is a big IF

[DeLorean]

Maybe a smaller 'if' with O'Neill out of the picture, hopefully.

[ifk101]

Don't share the enthusiasm for Liam Kelly. Granted he had a tidy game against a lacklustre United, but nothing beyond what would be expected of a player in his position/ role. Not convinced he is good enough to become an established senior international and not a player I'd pursue.

[Diggs246]

Not to mention he already told us to go f**k ourselves by not accepting an international call up verus Turkey

[IsMiseSean]

Not to mention he already told us to go f**k ourselves by not accepting an international call up verus Turkey

He did accept a call up before that but was cut from the squad by MON and he has said turning down the call up for the Turkey game has due to 'personal reasons'.
We have seen MON muddy the waters before - his handling of Obafemi's call-up is proof of that.

I'd be inclined to give everyone a clean slate with a new manager in place.

[Olé Olé]

He did accept a call up before that but was cut from the squad by MON and he has said turning down the call up for the Turkey game has due to 'personal reasons'.
We have seen MON muddy the waters before - his handling of Obafemi's call-up is proof of that.

I'd be inclined to give everyone a clean slate with a new manager in place.

The situation wasn't clarified though. He could do with making it clear where he stands. The rumours were abound he was waiting for England. MON hinted that. He never refuted that.

[CraftyToePoke]

He never refuted that

I think he did.

[IsMiseSean]

The situation wasn't clarified though. He could do with making it clear where he stands. The rumours were abound he was waiting for England. MON hinted that. He never refuted that.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/reading-s-liam-kelly-explains-why-he-turned-down-ireland-call-up-1.3463161

[Olé Olé]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/reading-s-liam-kelly-explains-why-he-turned-down-ireland-call-up-1.3463161

Not very clear though. "We'll see how it goes."

[IsMiseSean]

Not very clear though. "We'll see how it goes."

Yeah, I'd agree, but I'd give the lad the benefit of the doubt if McCarthy wants to bring him on board.

If he turns down a call up again without a reasonable explanation - I'd forget about him.

[Diggs246]

If you are selected to play for ireland, you say "Yes thank you what an honour". What u dont do is play underage for all our teams and then refuse a call up for the senior team, and when u are called out by the manager for refusing the call, say it was for unexplained personal reasons. Then have a prostitute from the indo publish your weak defensive story

[tetsujin1979]

I believe they prefer to be called "journalists"

[Diggs246]

I believe they prefer to be called "journalists"

In that case I owe the apology to the prostitutes, they are honest and hard working

[The Fly]

I believe they prefer to be called "journalists"

AKA - Intellectual Prostitutes. ;)

[third policeman]

If you are selected to play for ireland, you say "Yes thank you what an honour". What u dont do is play underage for all our teams and then refuse a call up for the senior team, and when u are called out by the manager for refusing the call, say it was for unexplained personal reasons. Then have a prostitute from the indo publish your weak defensive story

I think there's broader context for the Kelly situation. It seemed during the latter days of the MON era that we were a team that no-one wanted to play for. Even players without other options were refusing call-ups or were alienated from what now seems like a dysfunctional set-up. Somehow we have to become an attractive option and that is not just about results. There's a perception thing, or a momentum thing. In the Charlton era we were attracting 2G players who could realistically have had call-ups with England and Scotland, whilst under MON even Irish born players seemed less than thrilled by the prospect of pulling on the green jersey. If we were to land 2 or 3 from Kelly, Crowley, Bamford, Rice, Redmond et al, I suspect it might generate its own momentum and begin to have an impact on the decision-making of other 2G players. At the minute we 're not an appealing option. There's a sense that we're no longer a force in international football. Like it or not that's a factor for players with choices.

[Diggs246]

I think there's broader context for the Kelly situation. It seemed during the latter days of the MON era that we were a team that no-one wanted to play for. Even players without other options were refusing call-ups or were alienated from what now seems like a dysfunctional set-up. Somehow we have to become an attractive option and that is not just about results. There's a perception thing, or a momentum thing. In the Charlton era we were attracting 2G players who could realistically have had call-ups with England and Scotland, whilst under MON even Irish born players seemed less than thrilled by the prospect of pulling on the green jersey. If we were to land 2 or 3 from Kelly, Crowley, Bamford, Rice, Redmond et al, I suspect it might generate its own momentum and begin to have an impact on the decision-making of other 2G players. At the minute we 're not an appealing option. There's a sense that we're no longer a force in international football. Like it or not that's a factor for players with choices.

First of all I don't think that's a good enough excuse for not turning up and secondly things had not really gone t*ts up at that stage

[Olé Olé]

I think there's broader context for the Kelly situation. It seemed during the latter days of the MON era that we were a team that no-one wanted to play for. Even players without other options were refusing call-ups or were alienated from what now seems like a dysfunctional set-up. Somehow we have to become an attractive option and that is not just about results. There's a perception thing, or a momentum thing. In the Charlton era we were attracting 2G players who could realistically have had call-ups with England and Scotland, whilst under MON even Irish born players seemed less than thrilled by the prospect of pulling on the green jersey. If we were to land 2 or 3 from Kelly, Crowley, Bamford, Rice, Redmond et al, I suspect it might generate its own momentum and begin to have an impact on the decision-making of other 2G players. At the minute we 're not an appealing option. There's a sense that we're no longer a force in international football. Like it or not that's a factor for players with choices.

You make a good point. Matt Doherty is Irish born and bred and cut a frustrated figure in his recent appearances for us when Cyrus Christie rambled pointlessly in front of him and the centre halves were unwilling to put him into space. Doherty came out and highlighted the apathy he felt towards the set up. If he is feeling apathetic then how can we motivate 2G players? David McGoldrick seemed to slide out of the squad, albeit his recent form has brought him front and centre, and it could be similar.

[third policeman]

First of all I don't think that's a good enough excuse for not turning up and secondly things had not really gone t*ts up at that stage

I think the malaise had set in long before the wheels finally came off.

[Stuttgart88]

I heard from a reliable source that Kelly wasn't impressed by O'Neill's "joking" with his agent about his size.

[ifk101]

He needs to grow up if that's the case.

[Diggs246]

He should have ignored Mon and been the bigger man