Champions League 2016-17

[geysir]

Valencia hung on with death grip determination onto their one goal lead v Madrid, excellent game and the atmosphere was unworldly. Not much love lost there between those two.

[osarusan]

Leicester fans singing "How sh!t must you be, we just scored a goal":D

[geysir]

6 of the 8 home teams (group runners up) have the advantage to varying extents going into the 2nd leg, flying in the face of conventional wisdom.

[BonnieShels]

Should this thread just be general (non-Irish team) European thread?

Europa draw done:

FC Copenhagen v Ajax
KAA Gent v Genk
Olympiakos v Besiktas
FC Rostov v Manchester United
Lyon v Roma
Schalke v Borussia Monchengladbach
Apoel FC v Anderlecht
Celta Vigo v FC Krasnodar

Hmmmmmmmm...

3 Belgian sides into the last-16. At least one will make it to the QF with the All Belgian Gent v Genk

A Greece v Turkey tie in Olympiakos v Besiktas

All German tie with Schalke and BormMon

[DeLorean]

Why not use this? (http://foot.ie/threads/214168-Europa-League-2016-17)

Jeez Bonnie, it only seems like a few weeks ago that you reached 10,000 posts. Now I'm luring you into number 11,000... a Foot.ie posting machine.

[BonnieShels]

Why not use this? (http://foot.ie/threads/214168-Europa-League-2016-17)

Jeez Bonnie, it only seems like a few weeks ago that you reached 10,000 posts. Now I'm luring you into number 11,000... a Foot.ie posting machine.

I couldn't find the EL thread. I don't think there's enough traffic to warrant 2 threads. I would be pro-merging them into one.

Yeah, 11000 posts outta no where and I haven't been on a lot since Christmas either!

[pineapple stu]

Wow. Bayern 10-2 Arsenal on aggregate (and still a few minutes to go)

Arsene's done a superb job at Arsenal over the past two decades of course, and I think a lot of the criticism of him is over the top, but could this be the result that tips things?

[DeLorean]

I did call it to be fair (http://foot.ie/threads/214121-Champions-League-2016-17?p=1900979&viewfull=1#post1900979) :o;)

I think things were already 'tipped'. His press conference was surreal, blaming the referee after losing 10-2. ;)

I can understand the frustration but I do think some of the protests and demonstrations are very disrespectful towards a man that's such a massive part of their history now.

Sergio Ramos doing what Sergio Ramos does in the other tie tonight. He ruined it as a spectacle actually because it had turned into a fascinating tie with Napoli dominating the first half. What a player he is though.

[CraftyToePoke]

His press conference was surreal, blaming the referee after losing 10-2

Not just him though, the BTSport lads were a bit onto the ref also, I mean yes he ruined this 90 as a spectacle maybe, but the 10-2 is all yours Arsene / Aresnal. I remember reaching for the remote soon as that began, it's simply not the situation which I had watched.

[DeLorean]

As soon as the discussion on the ref began is it?

Yeah, if it was the first leg and it turned on a poor refereeing decision it'd have been understandable, but beyond embarrassing to zoom in on it after losing 10-2. Plus, it looked the correct decision in any case, didn't it? Well, the penalty part definitely. The referee would have probably got away with giving a yellow maybe under the new rules but I'm not even sure about that. Looked like he deliberately impeded him to me without having any chance of getting to the ball.

[osarusan]

It was a penalty. Under the new rules, thought the red was a bit harsh. Looked to me like he was getting arm across him to hold hime off and make space to get a leg in, but Lewandowski dropped immediately.

If Koscienly had been on the pitch, they'd have conceded fewer, but that was as good as it would have got.

Without him they were an absolute embarrassment. The goals they conceded were shameful at any level.

I was actually thinking after the first half that even though they were going out, they'd be able to recover some pride and ease the pressure on Wenger with a decent home performance at least. But then they fell apart. The put on a lot of pressure in the first half and looked like they completely ran out of gas with about 20 minutes to go.

[OwlsFan]

His press conference was surreal, blaming the referee after losing 10-2. ;).

Arsene Whinger blaming the ref !!?? Are you sure we're talking about the same person and it wasn't a doppelganger ? Bayern were never going to come out with all guns firing sitting on a 5-1 lead and the fact that Arsenal dominated the early part of the game is not a surprise. Usually happens when a team has a comfortable lead from the first leg. I agree with Osarusan that it was a peno but that the sending off was harsh but that hardly changed the outcome or spoiled it, unless you are an Arsenal fan.

[DeLorean]

I'm not sure I like the softening of the professional foul rule. Great in theory but almost impossible to determine intent in most cases. Maybe just give a yellow (or nothing) in all circumstances where a penalty in awarded, barring dangerous tackles obviously.

[DeLorean]

Bayern fans last night. I'm sure my brain just isn't functioning but what do they mean by 'MUNICH 59 + 1€'?

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i/?img=/photo/2017/0307/r188019_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=738&site=espnfc

[BonnieShels]

Bayern fans last night. I'm sure my brain just isn't functioning but what do they mean by 'MUNICH 59 + 1€'?

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i/?img=/photo/2017/0307/r188019_1296x729_16-9.jpg&w=738&site=espnfc

There's a €1.00 advanced booking fee on all tickets. Would have been easier to just lob on "€60" on the banner given the plethora of fees and charges for Munich tickets. Also, it's a bit rich for fans of that club to complain about ticket prices!

[DeLorean]

I see. I thought Bayern (and Germany in general) had a great reputation when it comes to ticket prices? Anyway, isn't it their fans that are protesting, not the club?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaodgpSXIAILUCu.jpg

[BonnieShels]

I see. I thought Bayern (and Germany in general) had a great reputation when it comes to ticket prices? Anyway, isn't it their fans that are protesting, not the club?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaodgpSXIAILUCu.jpg

They have a generally decent reputation when it comes to tickets alight. But in the CL they are as greedy as everyone.

[CraftyToePoke]

As soon as the discussion on the ref began is it?

Yeah, if it was the first leg and it turned on a poor refereeing decision it'd have been understandable, but beyond embarrassing to zoom in on it after losing 10-2. Plus, it looked the correct decision in any case, didn't it? Well, the penalty part definitely. The referee would have probably got away with giving a yellow maybe under the new rules but I'm not even sure about that. Looked like he deliberately impeded him to me without having any chance of getting to the ball.

Not 100% on when it began but it recurred during post match broadcast, it even got to Ian WrightWrightWright suggesting it would all have been different had the ref given Arsenal the earlier spot kick. Laughable stuff, not credible at all. And yes it was the right decision, the card colour change was iffy after it, but none of this makes the ensuing collapse remotely acceptable.

[osarusan]

There's a €1.00 advanced booking fee on all tickets. Would have been easier to just lob on "€60" on the banner given the plethora of fees and charges for Munich tickets. Also, it's a bit rich for fans of that club to complain about ticket prices!
I thought it meant they were protesting about their own prices too.

[DeLorean]

They have a generally decent reputation when it comes to tickets alight. But in the CL they are as greedy as everyone.

Right. I still don't really understand how it's rich for Bayern's fans to protest about the prices though?

[BonnieShels]

Right. I still don't really understand how it's rich for Bayern's fans to protest about the prices though?

They could well dislike their own "home" ticket process but the differential to what is available at the Allianz and the Emirates isn't that huge. Just seems moany. Plus I hate Bayern.

[BonnieShels]

It's not like I'd miss anything at the Nou Camp...

Grr.

[osarusan]

Jesus Christ.

[geysir]

It was so unbelievable I just watched that last 10 minutes happen without any emotion.

[BonnieShels]

I'm disgusted here. Naturally.

[geysir]

Knowing that, just adds to the pleasure.
;)

[geysir]

Just for you Bonnie (the fat lady sure sings)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxgFEEN1JpA

[Charlie Darwin]

Hopefully Bayern and Barca are kept apart in the draw to prolong BS's angst.

[BonnieShels]

Hopefully Bayern and Barca are kept apart in the draw to prolong BS's angst.

We have the horrible spectre of them getting each other and possibly meeting Man City in a SF. The worst of all worlds.

Almost as bad as the SF lineup this year...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship

[Charlie Darwin]

We have the horrible spectre of them getting each other and possibly meeting Man City in a SF. The worst of all worlds.

Almost as bad as the SF lineup this year...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship
A SF line-up of Bayern, Barca, Man City and Sporting Fingal would be something else.

[BonnieShels]

A SF line-up of Bayern, Barca, Man City and Sporting Fingal would be something else.

I'd explode.

[DannyInvincible]

That was remarkable. Don't think I've ever seen a comeback quite like it.

[BonnieShels]

Well you haven't in the champions league. Wasn't City's game a couple of weeks ago V Monaco the greatest ever?

It was gash defending that more or less gave us both games. The over egging of it as a game is beyond a joke.

Anyway, only a week now before Man City and Pep's tactical nous out think Monaco... :rolleyes:

[DeLorean]

I'm with BS. I'm looking forward to the proper games that will inevitably include Ateltico, Juve and other such teams that appreciate the art of defending instead of these sh!te-fest 'classics'.

The second penalty decision leaves a very sour taste I think, pathetic stuff from an official at that level. Without that they're probably falling two goals short of this remarkable comeback, fuelled with character and inspiration.

I think the fella behind the goal got the first one right though, it only looks a penalty from one angle (not his) but it is pretty clear from that angle - the one to Neymar's back.

Neymar was incredible to be fair, his performance was the bigger story of the night for me. The composure and class to weight that final pass so perfectly (with his 'weaker' foot) was amazing.

[osarusan]

The stuff about character, belief, inspiration, never-say-die attitude and all that is really over-egging it.

From the point Cavani scored until the 88th minute Barca didn't have much of that. They'd pretty much run out of ideas and given up. Even the freekick had the air of a consolation to it I thought.

Still, no sympathy for PSG really. To give away such a lead twice is unforgivable.

And Barca will come up against somebody else who will exploit their weaknesses without consequently caving in.

[DeLorean]

The thing with Barca is that they can outscore anybody, obviously enough. They beat Atletico on a regular basis despite losing two CL knock-out ties against them. They could have beaten Juve by a much larger margin two years ago, even if they were lucky to get over the line in the end. The likes of Bayern and Dortmund probably won't be able to cope with them defensively, unless Bayern have stabilised in that regard under Ancelotti maybe?

Real Madrid are probably best equipped to beat them, as they have the firepower but aren't totally clueless defensively.

The quarter final draw will be intriguing.

[BonnieShels]

I'm with BS. I'm looking forward to the proper games that will inevitably include Ateltico, Juve and other such teams that appreciate the art of defending instead of these sh!te-fest 'classics'.

The second penalty decision leaves a very sour taste I think, pathetic stuff from an official at that level. Without that they're probably falling two goals short of this remarkable comeback, fuelled with character and inspiration.

I think the fella behind the goal got the first one right though, it only looks a penalty from one angle (not his) but it is pretty clear from that angle - the one to Neymar's back.

Neymar was incredible to be fair, his performance was the bigger story of the night for me. The composure and class to weight that final pass so perfectly (with his 'weaker' foot) was amazing.

Was he incredible? I mean he did some nice things at the end but before the fourth goal he was wandering around and making last -ditch half-hearted tackles. Second penalty was desperate. But when Ter Stegen fell over and the referee inexplicably went back for a free kick you could almost smell the goal coming. I just knew it.


The stuff about character, belief, inspiration, never-say-die attitude and all that is really over-egging it.

From the point Cavani scored until the 88th minute Barca didn't have much of that. They'd pretty much run out of ideas and given up. Even the freekick had the air of a consolation to it I thought.

Still, no sympathy for PSG really. To give away such a lead twice is unforgivable.

And Barca will come up against somebody else who will exploit their weaknesses without consequently caving in.

Absolutely no sympathy for PSG. That tie could have been killed off early enough and possibly turned into an embarrassment for the most honorable of clubs. Ah well... Luis Enrique... genius.

[OwlsFan]

The things I found interesting about that game were, apart from the obvious comeback:

a) The usual stuff of the team with the large advantage after the first leg half-thinking psychologically that the job is done and paying the consequences.
b) The PSG manager pacing up and down the sideline like a changed animal. I have to say I felt for him, especially after the excitement of the magical "away goal".
c) The well drilled Barca ball boys/girls who had the ball back in play almost immediately. Kept the momentum going.
d) George H, not unnaturally this time, writing Barca's obituary with 10 minutes to go. If I had the courage of my convictions I should have immediately placed an online bet.
e) I'd hate to be a referee immediately being pounced on by swarming and sdnarling players of the team against whom he has made a decision.
f) And most important of all, we are without Robbie Brady for the Wales' game because he kicked away the ball. PSG blatantly did that on at least 5 occasions without punishment. It was unbelievable. I think because they got away with it the first time they kept doing it.

[BonnieShels]

The thing with Barca is that they can outscore anybody, obviously enough. They beat Atletico on a regular basis despite losing two CL knock-out ties against them. They could have beaten Juve by a much larger margin two years ago, even if they were lucky to get over the line in the end. The likes of Bayern and Dortmund probably won't be able to cope with them defensively, unless Bayern have stabilised in that regard under Ancelotti maybe?

Real Madrid are probably best equipped to beat them, as they have the firepower but aren't totally clueless defensively.

The quarter final draw will be intriguing.

I would love to see Monaco go at Barca just for the thrill. :rolleyes:

---

At least Dortmund are through eh geysir?

[geysir]

The 5 - 10 minutes near the end of the first and second half was just perfect genius football from Barca.
It's a simplistic analysis that PSG just collapsed didn't know how to prepare their team to defend a 4 nil lead, when they were psychologically terrorised into making mistakes by a relentless attacking football from 3 of the best players on the planet.
PSG missed a one on one, hit the post, finally did score and at that point in time Barca were dead and buried, but after nailing Barca's coffin shut for a second time. PSG had to encounter their GUBU.

From what I've seen, Real Madrid would have to be the favourites and have the best balanced team, probably Bayern are closest to them.

[OwlsFan]

I also forgot to mention the 4 minutes extra time that turned in to 5, presumably added on for the penalty ?

[BonnieShels]

Adn there's teh fact that PSG completed 4 passes from the 88th min onwards... 3 of which were kick-offs.

[DeLorean]

The 5 - 10 minutes near the end of the first and second half was just perfect genius football from Barca.
It's a simplistic analysis that PSG just collapsed didn't know how to prepare their team to defend a 4 nil lead, when they were psychologically terrorised into making mistakes by a relentless attacking football from 3 of the best players on the planet.

That's a far more simplistic analysis I think.

[geysir]

That's a far more simplistic analysis I think.

The simple truth is that you're biased against many things Barca, well beyond the point of irrationality to have an intense dislike, therefore your opinions on Barca have to be taken with doses of salt.:)
Barca were awesome last night from beginning to end, from the back to the front, as were their fans for the whole game.

[geysir]

I also forgot to mention the 4 minutes extra time that turned in to 5, presumably added on for the penalty ?

Officially there were 5 minutes of extra time.

[SkStu]

For a team that had to overcome a 4-0 deficit, Barca were absolutely outstanding. When the PSG goal went in, it was curtains but they still managed to get the goals they needed to go through. Sure they gave up chances, they were always going to. To downplay the achievement and performance though is actually laughable.

And it was a definite penalty. Marquinhos and Meunier should hang their heads in shame, couldn't handle the Barca players at all and resorted to stupidity. Marquinhos practically crawled on all fours to get in the way of and take out Suarez for the second penalty.

[DeLorean]

The achievement will stand the test of time, there's no disputing that. And of course any team that overturns that sort of deficit deserves an awful lot of credit. Like them or loathe them, everybody accepts that Barcelona have been a brilliant footballing side with incredible players over the past decade or so.

Last night's game and this tie generally can be analysed/discussed on it's own merits though and I wouldn't really agree with much of yourself or Geysir's versions of how things unfolded. It seems to me like ye've been swept away by the drama of it all, laughable really for two foot.ie stalwarts. :)

I've seen Barcelona play a lot better than they did last night and I think they were gifted an awful lot, both through PSG's incompetence and that of the referee. Despite my irrational (and intense - apparently) dislike for them I thought the first penalty was the right decision, although a lot of neutral observers think it was a clear dive, that Neymar initiated the contact. I can't agree with you on the second one, the defender got himself into a poor position but there's just no way that's a penalty in my book. Not even close.

And without it - the majestic comeback falls a fair bit short one would have to assume... no tears of joy, no talk of 'more than a club', no Pique tweets of how the Catalan hospitals will need to hire extra nurses in nine months time... just a sombre feeling of regret and anti-climax followed by a post-mortem, analysing their shortcomings and how they left themselves too much to do after their shambolic showing in the first leg. Small margins.

I thought Messi and Suarez were relatively average on the night, especially by their own high standards. I don't think PSG were remotely terrorised for twenty-five minutes after Cavani scored, psychologically or otherwise. The two goals in the first half were really atrocious concessions from a Paris point of view and little to do with Barca genius.

None of that matters anyway, the simple fact remains that they won 6-5 on aggregate and are through to the quarter finals. Fair play to them, but we don't have to all agree that it was purely magical and that there were no other contributory factors to help the stars align for them to pull it off. If going through those finer details in an objective way appears to downplay the achievement, then so what.

P.S. - Did you get early release for good behaviour? :)

[SkStu]

Fair enough! Would be boring if we all saw things the same way.

I was just banned from the Current Affairs forum. Sad!

[geysir]

The achievement will stand the test of time, there's no disputing that. And of course any team that overturns that sort of deficit deserves an awful lot of credit. Like them or loathe them, everybody accepts that Barcelona have been a brilliant footballing side with incredible players over the past decade or so.

Last night's game and this tie generally can be analysed/discussed on it's own merits though and I wouldn't really agree with much of yourself or Geysir's versions of how things unfolded. It seems to me like ye've been swept away by the drama of it all, laughable really for two foot.ie stalwarts. :)
Not laughable at all
Far from being scientific, but I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of players, ex-players, managers and ex managers were swept away by the drama that unfolded.
As Didi Hamman said "I've still got goosebumps now"
"I've never seen anything like that and I'll never see anything like that again.
"They had to come back twice"


I've seen Barcelona play a lot better than they did last night and I think they were gifted an awful lot, both through PSG's incompetence and that of the referee. Despite my irrational (and intense - apparently) dislike for them I thought the first penalty was the right decision, although a lot of neutral observers think it was a clear dive, that Neymar initiated the contact. I can't agree with you on the second one, the defender got himself into a poor position but there's just no way that's a penalty in my book. Not even close.

And without it - the majestic comeback falls a fair bit short one would have to assume... no tears of joy, no talk of 'more than a club', no Pique tweets of how the Catalan hospitals will need to hire extra nurses in nine months time... just a sombre feeling of regret and anti-climax followed by a post-mortem, analysing their shortcomings and how they left themselves too much to do after their shambolic showing in the first leg. Small margins.

I thought Messi and Suarez were relatively average on the night, especially by their own high standards. I don't think PSG were remotely terrorised for twenty-five minutes after Cavani scored, psychologically or otherwise. The two goals in the first half were really atrocious concessions from a Paris point of view and little to do with Barca genius.

In the words of Verratti, post game
"We knew that all the players of Barcelona were better than us, all we had to do was play as a team, play together."
Il Barcellona ci ha costretto a giocare così bassi, "Barca forced us to play this bad"

Del, when it comes to Barca, it's sour grapes topped with bitter lemon.
Laughable really :)

[DeLorean]

I really don't care enough to be compromised by personal preferences, and I've zero affection for PSG in any case. But believe that if you like.

Re: Hamman - "I've never seen anything like that and I'll never see anything like that again."

Istanbul 2005?? - Okay they didn't have to come back twice but it surely falls in the same ball park, and far more significant in many respects (i.e. the rank outsiders making the comeback, actually winning the trophy as a result against all the odds, not only on the night but from the outset). Deportivo winning the 2nd Leg 4-0 against Milan a year or two previously also, having lost 4-1 at the San Siro.

Give me a break Didi.

Re: Veratti - saving face maybe? It appears better for them if the praise is just heaped on Barca. His fans obviously don't agree with his take on things. - http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39226413