Gaa 2016

[NeverFeltBetter]

Some bad contests this weekend: Blowout wins for Dublin and Monaghan, and a slog of a match in Thurles with a crazy number of wides. This sweeper system makes for pure dirt hurling, whatever its effectiveness. That and the Christy Ring debacle not exactly covering the Association in glory, you'd have to imagine that Antrim will be granted a replay.

[BonnieShels]

Replay scheduled for 18 June

http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/christy-ring-cup-final-replayed/

[NeverFeltBetter]

Good. Been going mad reading Meath people insisting the result should stand.

[Kingdom]

Worst bounced GAA thread for a few years, sums up exactly how bad the GAA season (at Inter-co level) has been in 2016. Honestly it's probably the worst season since 2003.

[BonnieShels]

Worst bounced GAA thread for a few years, sums up exactly how bad the GAA season (at Inter-co level) has been in 2016. Honestly it's probably the worst season since 2003.

I'd've said 2014, 2009, 2006 and 2004 at least were worse? :P

I've been considering bouncing it but honestly, this A and B muck has destroyed what was left in the joy of the qualifiers.

This is not a dig at Kerry (Ye can only play what's in front of ye), but in all honesty, to have to play Clare, Tipp and then Clare again to get to a SF is a joke! The A and B side of the draw serves to remove any chance of a surprise draw in the QF. Having A and B makes sense for scheduling the qualifiers but after the last round it should be open draw for places in the QF for the qualifiers.

Still can only see a Dublin-Tyrone final at the moment. We'll see what Cork spring this weekend.

[DeLorean]

I've been considering bouncing it but honestly, this A and B muck has destroyed what was left in the joy of the qualifiers.

This is not a dig at Kerry (Ye can only play what's in front of ye), but in all honesty, to have to play Clare, Tipp and then Clare again to get to a SF is a joke! The A and B side of the draw serves to remove any chance of a surprise draw in the QF. Having A and B makes sense for scheduling the qualifiers but after the last round it should be open draw for places in the QF for the qualifiers.

Kerry hammered Limerick in Munster in 2011 and drew them again in the quarter finals. That was before the A and B spilt to I'm not sure that's responsible for Kerry's handy run, just the way it's worked out. The only difference in 2011 is that Cork weren't ambushed in Munster so it wasn't quite as noticeable.

The A and B thing is the least of the issues, it's the entire structure. Hopefully the attendances continue to plummet, as it's about the only thing that will propel the desire for change in HQ.

[Kingdom]

I'd've said 2014, 2009, 2006 and 2004 at least were worse? :P

I've been considering bouncing it but honestly, this A and B muck has destroyed what was left in the joy of the qualifiers.

This is not a dig at Kerry (Ye can only play what's in front of ye), but in all honesty, to have to play Clare, Tipp and then Clare again to get to a SF is a joke! The A and B side of the draw serves to remove any chance of a surprise draw in the QF. Having A and B makes sense for scheduling the qualifiers but after the last round it should be open draw for places in the QF for the qualifiers.

Still can only see a Dublin-Tyrone final at the moment. We'll see what Cork spring this weekend.

Agree totally. The A and B system only works because the Provincials are scheduled horribly to begin with. Everyone accepts Sat night football is excellent. There is no reason why two provinces cannot run one weekend, and the other two the following week. Why is acceptable for some counties to play three games in three weeks in the qualifiers, but some counties can't play 3 games in two months - rubbish! I think the great thing about the qualifiers previously is that you could nearly have any potential match-up; now there's no real pleasure in the draws.

While I understand the point you're making re: Kerry - and it's been valid for a while - this year isn't a great year to make it considering they've beaten two other quarter-finalists to make the quarter-final, something no other county has done. Still, it's not great preparation for a potential All Ireland SF not getting a crack at a Mayo or Donegal.

It seems unlikely anyone is going to touch Dublin, but it ****es me off rightly the praise that Tyrone are getting. I think far too much smoke has been blown up them, and unfortunately it's only going to get worse because they are likely to make the All-Ireland final. Cork at most will keep this within touching distance of Donegal. If they beat Donegal, then it rightly raises the question of just how good everyone thinks the Ulster Championship is,

Last point Bonnie. <In recent context> There is no huge difference between Munster and Connaught for standard. For Cork and Kerry, read Mayo and Galway; for Limerick read Roscommon; for Clare and Tipperary read Leitrim and Sligo. London and New York balance out Waterford. Yet Kerry have made the Q'f's every year since inception. Mayo nor Galway have come close to that. I appreciate that there is a slight difference in that Kerry and Cork have more-often-tan-not been kept apart in the prov draw, which does make a difference naturally, but it is still a damn fine record to be that consistent.

[DeLorean]

A Kerry man wanting credit for reaching quarter finals! The expectation levels must be slipping Kingdom. :p

I don't think there's any question but Kerry have been more consistent than Mayo & Galway over the past 15 years, both of those have been putrid at various stages in that time.

Kerry have pretty much been the best or second best team in Ireland during that time, so it would have been a major shock if they hadn't made the last eight at any stage. Was Down in 2010 the only time ye actually lost a quarter final btw?

[Kingdom]

Kerry have had some shockingly bad teams since 2001 too apparently, yet it hasn't stopped them making the q/f every year, unlike Galway and Mayo, counties as storied in Gaelic football, with better club football and greater population sizes. Not looking for credit for that achievement, just think it's a nice one.

I think there was a Donegal q/f defeat in 2012 too.

[DeLorean]

Kerry have had some shockingly bad teams since 2001 too apparently

That's news to me! Yeah they took a tanking off Meath one year but a complete freak result really. Cork were pretty poor for a lot of the early qualifier days as well, for a while Kerry's biggest obstacle in Munster was Limerick.

Population sizes? We're hardly going down that road but, even if we are, surely 37 All Ireland's is a bigger stick to beat them with than a string of quarter final appearances.

I'd imagine Kerry and Mayo's populations aren't exactly world's apart anyway? And Galway seems to be pretty much split in two in GAA terms.

It's a good record (a perfect record, even), but I'd expect Kerry to make 99.999999999% of quarter finals to be honest, and I'm sure they'll continue to do so.

[NeverFeltBetter]

for a while Kerry's biggest obstacle in Munster was Limerick.



Those were the days. I can't even begin to muster enthusiasm for inter-county football in Munster anymore. You just wait for the qualifiers.

[wonder88]

We will have a better idea of where Galway are after this weekend. The drawn game v Roscomon in the rain, could be the makings of this side as happened in 1998. Too much is always made of the "great Galway forwards" in my opinion, the double All-Ireland winning team had class backs in Tomas Mannion, Gary Fahy, Séan óg de Paor. So far this year the defence, especially 1 to 4, all in their first season of championship, have been impressive. A good win over Tipp can signal that they are serious contenders. I have a worry about the midfield and if the forwards can repeat the performance they showed in the replay of the Connacht final.
I saw Clare last Saturday and I hope they can give Kerry a rattle, as one of the great things about sport is when the underdog makes a breakthrough.

[nigel-harps1954]

Clare v Kerry today was the first full match I've watched this year.

I wish I hadn't bothered.

[BonnieShels]

I'm assuming you stick round and watched he performance of the year then in Tipperary v Galway?
What a game. Conor Sweeney has to be in All Star Contention now.

There's so much I could go on about yesterday especially in Kerry v Clare. Kerry are in trouble it has to be saod, i know there's consensus that they're keeping their powder dry but outside of BJK, JOD and Darran (what a player), I saw nothing that would trouble the rest of the big 5. Dublin will tear through that HB line for breakfast. As would the McHugh's and McBrearty.

But, I watched the game yesterday on RTÉ and the lack of anything about the thuggery of Donaghy was beyond belief. On the text commentary on RTÉ.ie there was nothing either. A brief mention by Colm O'Rourke after the break at HT and then it moved to Brolly going on about how Kerry were unmotivated as if that was to excuse his actions.

We all know how biased I am against Kerry a the best of times yesterday but that just left me cold at how blatant the bias for them was. If that was Neil McGee there would have been outrage and apoplexy.

Given how ineffectual he was yesterday as well it was beyond belief that he was playing as well.

I'm sickened by it. More so by the deafening silence surrounding comment on it than by the actions as deplorable as they were.

To say I was seething yesterday was an understatement. At least Tipperary managed to brighten up the day with that football.

[wonder88]

I was at Croke Park yesterday and it is noticeable how much Kerry get away with, refs seem to apply rules to them differently.
As a Galway man it was hard to take how poor our team was; I had a worry about midfield ok but the backs got cleaned out as well, yet none was taken off, strange.
I must say that Tipp played great stuff and have some really talented players. It was also a joy to watch them celebrate with their fans, often the wins before the bandwagon really takes off are special. However they must not waste as many chances next day if they have any hope of making the final, they should have have scored six goals. Galway also had two great goal chances themselves in the first half, so Tipp have plenty to work on for next day. Yet it must have been a special day for them. Galway meanwhile confirmed that they are a 2nd division team and are still looking for at least one decent midfielder.

[BonnieShels]

I was at Croke Park yesterday and it is noticeable how much Kerry get away with, refs seem to apply rules to them differently.
As a Galway man it was hard to take how poor our team was; I had a worry about midfield ok but the backs got cleaned out as well, yet none was taken off, strange.
I must say that Tipp played great stuff and have some really talented players. It was also a joy to watch them celebrate with their fans, often the wins before the bandwagon really takes off are special. However they must not waste as many chances next day if they have any hope of making the final, they should have have scored six goals. Galway also had two great goal chances themselves in the first half, so Tipp have plenty to work on for next day. Yet it must have been a special day for them. Galway meanwhile confirmed that they are a 2nd division team and are still looking for at least one decent midfielder.

So I'm not going mad?

Like all of those interpretations of FF poll numbers as major gains, I'm staggered at how pundits keep thinking that Kerry are keeping their powder dry!

They have been brutal. And haven't played a decent game. The last proper inter-county game they had was the league final and we put paid to them with relative ease that day. All the talk after was how they now know what they need to do in the championship etc, but they clearly learned nothing. But then again the other narrative was that "but for the black card" they could have won the league final. It's just beyond belief. Sometimes I feel like I'm in this alternate reality.

The winners of the All-Ireland are playing next Saturday. That's the height of it.

Kingdom, what's the internal chat re Donaghy? Hero? What are your thoughts on his antics on Sunday?

[Kingdom]

My own take on Donaghy is that he offers nothing positive, and plenty of negatives, while detracting from the teams performance. He's the proverbial elephant in the room. While pointing to your own social media pages are never a good indicator, if I was to image my Fb updates and tweets on the days of Kerry games for the past 2 years then it would display the disgust I have for him and his antics for the past while, along with being selected. He is immobile, and doesn't appear capable of winning his own ball anymore. He is not inter-county standard at midfield either.
The punch, let's call it what it was, on the Clare player - a much smaller player too - was unforgiveable, low and cheap. Part of me hopes the ccc take a look at it, and decide to ban him, because it removes one of the problems for Kerry.
I think it also is high-time to start questioning Eamon Fitz. He definitely started off well, his coaching at colleges level is apparently legendary, and he has racked up an All-Ireland already. However, and it's a big however, he just doesn't look to believe in an alternative to the plan that he has in place at the moment. There has long been a worry that senior club football in the county is in a bad place and has been for a long time. Tralee football is in the doldrums, regardless of how many drums Stacks want to beat at matches. Rahilly's are a shambles, Mitchel's are about 10 years away from becoming a powerhouse.

I never go in for (in GAA) the talk of "how many players would play on the Dublin team?" because it's not clever, and different counties do have different styles and traditions (something McGuiness spoke well about for once). But the Kerry squad is a worry. There are a lot of players that have been around the scene for a while without making the breakthrough, or the ones that made the breakthrough didn't keep the shoulder to the grind. Jack Sherwood, Pa Kilkenny, Jonny Lyne, all haven't delivered on their promise. Even Fionn Fitzgerald is a player who you would expect to develop into a great attacking defender. But he hasn't. Part of me looks at Fionn and thinks he'd be excellent in a system Dublin employ, but it's counter-productive to do that. It's a huge worry that Marc Sé and Aidan Mahony are still go-to-guys, particularly when there is more exposure for weaker clubs in the Kerry Championships than ever before.

Paul Murphy is a great footballer. I wouldn't trade him for anyone. I think he's being charged with a horrible task, but he's a good enough footballer to cope, but it doesn't mask that we're robbing Peter to pay Paul by removing him from the half-back line. Mark Griffin & Shane Enright (if inconsistent), Begley looks like he has the makings of a really proper defender, but reference the trio above for him. If Kerry are employing a sweeper/stopper, then Peter Crowley needs to be nailed on for the role. He's made of granite, knows his limitations as a footballer, and is very clean in the tackle, and tackles well too for what it's worth. That's still two defenders short, three/four if you count that Kerry are averaging a black card a game - which is undeniably a problem now.

He has made one great call in dropping Kealy - he's just not strong enough as a keeper - yet he's obviously instructing the replacement to vary the kick-outs, despite having Donaghy in midfield for what I can only believe to be catching purposes. It's maddening. Anthony Maher not being fully fit is a huge problem, he's an automatic starter for me. David Moran has flattered to deceive since his long-awaited breakthrough after injury. Buckley returning from injury should relieve Paul Murphy of duty from attack, but it remains to be seen whether Buckley is consistent enough either.

Even allowing for all of the above, I still think Kerry are capable of beating anyone apart from Dublin. I don't believe that they are not capable of beating Dublin, just that the probability of it happening are low. I track it all back to when Ger Brennan literally stopped Declan O'Sullivan in his tracks. That was the turning point in the Kerry-Dublin relationship.


I'm no sports psychologist (obviously) but I think that the managers and the squads themselves do work in funny ways. Look at Dublin now. They have a manager that knows nothing but success from his playing and management days. Kerry were never a threat to him as a player. I'm not saying that he rubbishes Kerry in his team-talks (or anyone else for that matter) but he is able to remove the aura/history/whatever that previous Dublin managers and other counties could not*. It's works in other ways too. It's arguable if anyone other than Paudí (agricultural as his tactics were) would have removed Kerry from their nineties slump. He had no fear of Cork and was able to instill this into a relatively young and inexperienced squad.
Dublin are in the very enviable position of having reams and reams of players with either Minor, U21, Junior or Senior All-Ireland winning experience, and very little threat of adversity. That doesn't entitle you to an All-Ireland, but when you have a winning mindset, a very challenging squad, and a professional attitude and surroundings, it is very hard to beat that.
*The reverse is true for Kerry. There is always a mindset about Down that has transcended generations. There is the hang-ups with Tyrone (which there isn't with Armagh)

----------------------

Bonnie, on a fair level, what do you call the big 5? Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Monaghan, Donegal? Mayo beaten by Galway, who in turn were beaten by Tipp, who were in turn beaten by Kerry (although you could argue they were beaten by the occasion)?

Kerry will not win an All-Ireland this year, nor were they ever. The win two years ago was very much a bonus All-Ireland, because the young players that won the All-Ireland down in Limerick in the replay, have either not kicked on, or just had an exceptional 6 weeks of football for ordinary players. Maybe I'm insulated from it, being of Kerry stock, but I never feel that you get from Kerry people speaking on a National stage any aura of arrogance or self-hype. I certainly don't feel Kerry are ever en-vogue or lauded from the hills a-la Donegal or Tyrone. The level of hate that there is for Kerry here I find somewhat upsetting. I can understand hate towards individuals (for Bonnie, read Kingdom, and for Donaghy read MDMA - even writing MDMA wants me to punch the wall), but not towards the county. Everyone seems to whinge that Kerry are dirty, or that Kerry portray themselves as holier-than-thou. We don't. We know we've cynical tactics, no different to every other county that wants to win the big one. Aidan O'Mahony was the best centre-back in the country by a country mile, and then decided to have a moment of madness against Cork, and his career has never been the same. Donaghy has always been a scumbag on the field, but because he isn't contributing positively only the negatives are discussed. I've no problem with that. But does anyone actually think Kerry get away with more than other counties? Kerry could have been relegated this season from Division 1 when Donegal came down to Tralee and tried to beat us up. There's no point debating that, because that's what happened. They have their fair share of ho-ers, too, as do Tyrone and Monaghan. Dublin have at least 3 absolute knackers in their side, and I don't care how that sounds. Because it works for them, and because they are the ones winning, no attention is drawn to it.

Kerry were very poor in the All-Ireland final last year, and to be honest the rain and conditions probably helped Kerry keep the score respectable. We knew from 10 mins out that the goose was cooked. This years league final I genuinely feel was different. Whether Dublin were under-par and Kerry were improved I don't know, but I definitely felt that Kerry coped much better. The black card was definitely a turning point, but I agree with you Bonnie, I think age would have been the turning point anyway.

Apologies that turned into a bit of a ramble.

[Kingdom]

So I'm not going mad?

Like all of those interpretations of FF poll numbers as major gains, I'm staggered at how pundits keep thinking that Kerry are keeping their powder dry!



That's your problem, listening to pundits. No different to Ireland games. :eek:

[BonnieShels]

That's your problem, listening to pundits. No different to Ireland games. :eek:

I hear them. I wouldn't say I listen to them.

[nigel-harps1954]

I'm assuming you stick round and watched he performance of the year then in Tipperary v Galway?
What a game.

What a game indeed. That was well worth the watch. I missed the first 20 minutes of it but was happy I switched back for the rest. Galway were overly cocky going into it and they got exactly what they deserved.

[BonnieShels]

My own take on Donaghy is that he offers nothing positive, and plenty of negatives, while detracting from the teams performance. He's the proverbial elephant in the room. While pointing to your own social media pages are never a good indicator, if I was to image my Fb updates and tweets on the days of Kerry games for the past 2 years then it would display the disgust I have for him and his antics for the past while, along with being selected. He is immobile, and doesn't appear capable of winning his own ball anymore. He is not inter-county standard at midfield either.

The punch, let's call it what it was, on the Clare player - a much smaller player too - was unforgiveable, low and cheap. Part of me hopes the ccc take a look at it, and decide to ban him, because it removes one of the problems for Kerry.

In fairness if he's been riling you up can you imagine what he's been doing to the rest of us?

I got banned on boards for 2 days on Sunday for calling him a scumbag after the punch. And whilst I should have used less flowery language, I don't think scumbag is beyond reproach in this instance. I mean come on. How about thug?

I only got to see the match live from about the 20th min (the punch happened on 17) as I was out with the missus, but I was keeping abreast with boards and RTE text commentary. And then of course I went looking for the video of the incident as everyone on boards was going mad about it.

RTE had NOTHING to say about it. Absolutely nothing. It's these things that (what are brought up further down your post) lead the rest of us to believe there's a conspiracy or some sort of "ah sure it's Kerry" and on it goes.
My natural distaste (cos ya know, I'm a Dub) for the Kerry team has evolved into this almighty hatred since around 2009. And it's usually as a result of one man. Game after game he's defended for stuff like this and game after game he gets away with it. "Poor oul Star"

Like I said, if it Philly McMahon or Neil McGee that threw the punch it would have been headline news but as it was a Kerry player there was nothing. Even in the reviews of the game it was all talk about.

In the studio O'Rourke brought it up ever so briefly only for Brolly and Lyster to change the subject about how Kerry were "bored" out there.

As of today nothing mentioned in The Irish Times!



I think it also is high-time to start questioning Eamon Fitz. He definitely started off well, his coaching at colleges level is apparently legendary, and he has racked up an All-Ireland already. However, and it's a big however, he just doesn't look to believe in an alternative to the plan that he has in place at the moment. There has long been a worry that senior club football in the county is in a bad place and has been for a long time.

In my post before I posted it I called Fitz a spoofer. But I thought that it might come across as tempestuous.

But tbh I can't see how he couldn't be construed as such.

He manged to bag an AI with a fairly average team after resorting to hit and hope against a naive Mayo side and a handy ref in the SF. You would have thought at that point he would have said to the likes of Donaghy, O'Mahony and Cooper etc. Good luck and thanks. And then with that done set about blooding younger players that haven't really gotten a chance.

With that AI in the bag he had time to establish a new squad and a new ethos and draw a line under that other era of players. Instead as you said you have this mish mash of styles abilities and fitness and he's, for whatever reason, persisting with it.



I never go in for (in GAA) the talk of "how many players would play on the Dublin team?" because it's not clever, and different counties do have different styles and traditions (something McGuiness spoke well about for once). But the Kerry squad is a worry.
[...]

Part of me looks at Fionn and thinks he'd be excellent in a system Dublin employ, but it's counter-productive to do that. It's a huge worry that Marc Sé and Aidan Mahony are still go-to-guys, particularly when there is more exposure for weaker clubs in the Kerry Championships than ever before.

[...]

I track it all back to when Ger Brennan literally stopped Declan O'Sullivan in his tracks. That was the turning point in the Kerry-Dublin relationship.

It's a fun thing to do though. I think that the prospects of the younger players as you've mentioned have been hampered by who's around them.

I also like that you hate Kealy as much as I do. Well hate is too strong, I love seeing him in goal, but it kills me he has an AI medal.


I'm no sports psychologist (obviously) but I think that the managers and the squads themselves do work in funny ways. Look at Dublin now.

[...]

*The reverse is true for Kerry. There is always a mindset about Down that has transcended generations. There is the hang-ups with Tyrone (which there isn't with Armagh)



You're onto something there alright. It's funny, Kerry were a nothing team when I was growing up, like Brazil, and dining out on their glorious past... then 1997 happened.

The Down hang up is gas. As was the Tyrone one. Which despite the victory last year I don't think is gone.



----------------------


Bonnie, on a fair level, what do you call the big 5? Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Monaghan, Donegal? Mayo beaten by Galway, who in turn were beaten by Tipp, who were in turn beaten by Kerry (although you could argue they were beaten by the occasion)?

The big 5 I was referring to are Tyrone, Mayo, Dublin, Donegal and Kerry. Until Monaghan get to AISFs consistently (or at all then they'll stay with the "rest")


Kerry will not win an All-Ireland this year, nor were they ever. The win two years ago was very much a bonus All-Ireland, because the young players that won the All-Ireland down in Limerick in the replay, have either not kicked on, or just had an exceptional 6 weeks of football for ordinary players.

As I said above they weren't allowed kick on.



Maybe I'm insulated from it, being of Kerry stock, but I never feel that you get from Kerry people speaking on a National stage any aura of arrogance or self-hype. I certainly don't feel Kerry are ever en-vogue or lauded from the hills a-la Donegal or Tyrone.

You certainly are. The commentary on Newstalk and RTE was nauseating. I'm sorry to say that it's rare that I meet someone from Kerry around matches that have anything complimentary to say about Dublin or whoever.

I'm certainly not levelling this at you, but there is definitely a holier than thou attitude when it comes to football with Kerry people (again not all); like they are the keepers of the flame. I know the internet isn't representative but some of the stuff be it on Hogan Stand or Boards, is bordering on potty from your compatriots. And yet I don't see the same coming from other counties. Even the most mental of Rossies isn't as bad.


The level of hate that there is for Kerry here I find somewhat upsetting. I can understand hate towards individuals (for Bonnie, read Kingdom, and for Donaghy read MDMA - even writing MDMA wants me to punch the wall), but not towards the county.

It's only a natural upping of the ante. I think the rise of Ulster ball in the noughties certainly made more Kerry people bristle at the notion that they weren't kingpins anymore. I was once in Kilorglin and I was chatting to the barman during the Dublin-Tyrone QF in 2010 and he hadn't a decent word to say about Tyrone. And this was the Tyrone team that gave a masterclass in 2008. There they were playing Dublin adn all he could go on about was the northern filth yada yada.

Now I know I do a fair amount of defending of Tyrone but that sort of blindness is annoying.


Everyone seems to whinge that Kerry are dirty, or that Kerry portray themselves as holier-than-thou. We don't.

What I'll say about this is why do people think this?

The media is awash with Kerry-folk who peddle this sort of guff so naturally enough the rest of us get miffed at it.


We know we've cynical tactics, no different to every other county that wants to win the big one. Aidan O'Mahony was the best centre-back in the country by a country mile, and then decided to have a moment of madness against Cork, and his career has never been the same. Donaghy has always been a scumbag on the field, but because he isn't contributing positively only the negatives are discussed.
[...]
Because it works for them, and because they are the ones winning, no attention is drawn to it.

Kerry have done over the years gotten away with their fair share. And yes the cynicism has always been there, but when that cynicism which we all see is coupled with blinkers then it gets up people's goats.

Like I said, I didn't grow up with these all-conquering Kerry teams or great Kerry teams so I just think of them as AN Other tbh so the antics of fans around me at matches over the years makes it a tad harder to take.


Kerry were very poor in the All-Ireland final last year, and to be honest the rain and conditions probably helped Kerry keep the score respectable. We knew from 10 mins out that the goose was cooked. This years league final
[...]
The black card was definitely a turning point, but I agree with you Bonnie, I think age would have been the turning point anyway.

You see, this is why I enjoy these rants in here with you because they aren't blinkered. The consensus I got last year was that Dublin won because of the conditions etc. Bull. It was a three-point hammering if ever there was one.

---

I didn't properly get a chance to respond to this earlier.

[BonnieShels]

This came up when I went to post it:

"The text that you have entered is too long (13473 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long."

Maybe it is a ramble!

[bennocelt]

Don't know, but anytime I look at Donaghy he is a class act, big and strong and usually does the job. Must be a Kerry thing, 4 all Ireland's and still considered not good enough. :confused:

[BonnieShels]

Credit where credit's due. But we're taking about this year and his thuggery on Sunday.

[bennocelt]

a link?:)

[BonnieShels]

I searched all evening. It's omitted from the official GAA clips. So you'll have to go into RTÉ player and look at the match itself. 17min is when it happened.

[DeLorean]

Everyone seems to whinge that Kerry are dirty, or that Kerry portray themselves as holier-than-thou. We don't.

I had to laugh when you went from this ^ ... to this...


Kerry could have been relegated this season from Division 1 when Donegal came down to Tralee and tried to beat us up. There's no point debating that, because that's what happened.

I was actually at that match and it was very much a two way street. Obviously the McGee incident (on Fitzgerald) was the most unsavoury but this notion that Donegal came to bully Kerry is typical of the houlier-than-thou delusion that you think doesn't exist.

I remember the Michael Quirke (who I actually have some time for) article (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/mike-quirke-kerry-prove-they-have-no-problem-dancing-under-the-dark-lights-386383.html) in the aftermath of this match and it really was the epitome of the pretentiousness that exists amongst a lot of the Kerry support.

It was interesting that he basically said Donaghy started the whole thing off...


This was by no means one-way traffic where Kerry were inanimate victims of the intimidation and aggression of their Ulster opponents. If anything, Donaghy lit the fuse with his man-handling of Donegal’s pack leader Michael Murphy following an early hop ball. He threw him to the turf in what seemed like a statement of intent… ‘ye boys won’t come into our house and bully us today’.

Now it has to be remembered that the previous few Kerry Donegal games passed with little or no incidents, even the All Ireland final where everything was on the line. So, tell me, why was there a feeling that Donegal were so intent on coming to Tralee to beat up the poor Kerry boys? Why would Donaghy feel the need to make a statement early on? Sometimes games just spiral out of control and that's exactly what happened here and, if anything, Donaghy started the whole thing off as Quirke pointed out.

Aidan O'Mahony is the ultimate chest-out, macho warrior at the best of times, but even by his own standards he was possessed that day. How he didn't see the line I'll never know.

What I found ridiculous was that Quirke seems to accept that Kerry started it, and they were no angles in the whole affair, yet he still manages to portray the view that they were only standing up for themselves against the bold Ulster team.

His final paragraph summed up the delusion...


For years, Kerry were criticised for having a weak underbelly when faced with the Ulster grit and grind. But those days are a distant memory. If you want to play ball, they’ll play ball, but don’t be fooled, if you want to fight, they’ve no problem dancing under those lights either.

How could the likes of Seamus Moynihan, Tom O'Sullivan, Aidan O'Mahony, Tommy Griffin, Fitzmaurice, Tomás, Marc, Darragh, Galvin, Seamus Scanlon, Declan O'Sullivan, Donaghy, Tommy Walsh, Quirke himself, etc. ever be accused of having a weak underbelly when it comes to standing up for themselves? These are some of the toughest nuts to ever grace a football field.

Can he really say with a straight face that the current crop are more capable of 'defending' themselves than those guys, as that is the generation he is presumably referring to? Where Kerry have improved is their ability to mix it up tactically, they can meet defensive systems fire with fire and cope more productively with swarm tackling. That's a completely different thing.

And it is portraying a houlier-than-thou mentality. It's like "all we want to do is play beautiful football but if ye want to fight we'll be forced to stick up for ourselves".

[DeLorean]

Tralee football is in the doldrums, regardless of how many drums Stacks want to beat at matches

Didn't they beat their drums all the way to an All Ireland Club semi final just last year? Doldrums definitely has a different definition in Kerry than elsewhere. :)

Rahillys seem to be motoring a bit better now too, they've a serious amount of talent if they can tighten up a bit defensively.

[DeLorean]

Just checked out that Donaghy incident on the RTÉ player. It's a bit wild in fairness but I wouldn't be overly convinced there was that much malice in it. I wouldn't have him in the 'thug' bracket at all anyway, an annoying mouthpiece yes but it's rare enough he does anything actually dirty. I'd be slow to write him off also, if ever there was a man for the big occasion and with Dublin down O'Carroll there could be a bit of vulnerability there. Obviously he can't start midfield though.

[BonnieShels]

I have to disagree DeL but time is tight to properly respond so... :P

I'll be back on later.

In other news... Jimmy Mac is back:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0803/806688-james-mccarthy-fit-to-start-for-dublin/

[BonnieShels]

And just as we're about to start a domination the GAA go and sort out the championship mess... ish:


Proposal on the format of the All-Ireland SFC
GAA Ard Stiúrthóir Páraic Duffy has produced a far-reaching proposal on how best to restructure the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship and condense our calendar of inter-county games to give our club championships more room to breathe.

The Ard Stiúrthoir's proposal seeks to present a modest adjustment to the championship format that would produce a more exciting senior football championship within the current provincial championship structure and in a way that should not have a negative impact on the playing of county club championships.

The proposal will add eight extra matches to the provincial and All-Ireland senior football championship programme. However, when one allows for the abolition of the Allianz League semi-finals, the increase in the overall annual inter-county senior football programme is reduced to six matches.

Also, tighter scheduling and a revised policy on replays can bring improvements to the situations that affect the scheduling of club fixtures and the availability of inter-county players to clubs.

The proposal seeks to replace the quarter-final stage of the Championship with a group stage contested by the four provincial champions and the four round 4 qualifier winners. Pitting the eight best teams in the country against one another in this way would increase the number of high-quality matches at the height of the summer when playing conditions are optimal.

The new structure would provide a more exacting pathway to the All-Ireland final: the finalists will have had to compete with three of the best teams in the country at the group stage, followed by a semi-final with a top-four team that came through the same test. This will have the effect of ensuring that the finalists will have been equally tested and that the two best teams in the country contest the All-Ireland final.

Both All-Ireland Semi-Finals would be played over the one weekend which should generate greater excitement and also ensure both teams have the same period of time to prepare for the All-Ireland Final.

Under the Ard Stiúrthoir's proposal, the format of the All-Ireland senior football championship would be as follows:

PROVINCIAL CHAMPIONSHIPS: Knock-out format as at present.

ALL-IRELAND QUALIFIER SERIES

Round 1: Sixteen teams that do not qualify for provincial semi-finals

Round 2: Eight round 1 winners play eight defeated provincial semi-finalists

Round 3: Eight round 2 winners play each other on an open-draw basis

Round 4: Four round 3 winners play four provincial runners-up

Proposal 1:

(i) A Division 3 or 4 team drawn against a Division 1 or 2 team in rounds one, two or three of the qualifiers will be granted an automatic home-venue advantage.

(ii) The format of ‘A’ and ‘B’ sides to the qualifier draw will be ended.

QUARTER-FINAL STAGE

Proposal 2:

The current quarter-final stage of the championship to be replaced by a Group Stage, contested by the four provincial champions and the four round 4 qualifier winners.

The group stage will be organised on a league basis with two groups of four teams, with each team playing the other three teams once.

After the group stage is completed the top two teams in each group will progress to the All-Ireland semi-final with the Group 1 winner playing the Group 2 runner-up and the Group 2 winner playing the Group 1 runner-up

Order of fixtures in both groups

Round 1

Team 1 v Team 2. Croke Park

Team 3 v Team 4. Croke Park

Round 2

Team 1 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for provincial champions.

Team 2 V Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for provincial champions.

Round 3

Team 1 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.

Team 2 v Team 3 or 4. Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.

Note:

Home venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) and
shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee. CCCC shall
make the draws for Rounds 2 and 3.

The above fixtures format for the group stage means that each team will have one game in Croke Park,
one home game and one away game.

Tie-breakers in the event of teams finishing level on points (in order of application):

(i) Result of game between two tied teams (only where two teams are level on points)

(ii) Score difference

(iii) Highest score for

(iv) Goals scored

(v) Play-off match

All-IRELAND SEMI-FINALS:

Group 1 winner v Group 2 runner-up

Group 2 winner v Group 1 runner-up

(to be played over one weekend)

All-IRELAND FINAL

***

At its meeting on Friday 22 July, An Coiste Bainistíochta considered the attached proposal and agreed to circulate it to all counties. It will be discussed at the next meeting of Central Council.

http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/proposal-the-format-the-all-ireland-sfc/

And the PDF:

http://www.gaa.ie/mm//Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/09/77/4AugustFinal_English.pdf

[DeLorean]

They've basically targeted only only part of the GAA season that doesn't need restructuring.

[BonnieShels]

They've basically targeted only only part of the GAA season that doesn't need restructuring.

It's a stepping stone. Change is a pain in the GAA. Within 20 years the Provincials will no longer be part of the AI Championship.

[DeLorean]

A stepping stone in the wrong direction. There were some pretty decent suggestions out there, particularly the McGuinness and Parkinson ones, but they have come up with a something utterly useless. The snoozefest from May to August remains intact and the club schedules still in disarray .

[NeverFeltBetter]

Can't make sense of this proposal. The insistence from some on maintaining the provincial championships, in both codes, is rapidly moving from a well-intentioned sop to tradition to something actively harming the game. It's crying out for a group stage to knock-out structure from the start, not this weird alternative.

[Real ale Madrid]

Did Tyrone sack Harte yet? How many more years of this do they have to endure.

[BonnieShels]

Tipp should have made this count earlier. Mayo will run away with this.

[wonder88]

I think Kerry have a great chance v Dublin on Sunday. Game will sell-out. Has to be said that two 50k plus crowds on past two Sundays show that the GAA can still pull in big crowds. However I think they could reduce adult tickets prices a bit.

[BonnieShels]

They don't.


And it's sold out

[DeLorean]

Them's fightin' words, Bonnie.

[BonnieShels]

Did Tyrone sack Harte yet? How many more years of this do they have to endure.

2 more years he's getting. And so he should.


Them's fightin' words, Bonnie.

Sure when you read the nauseating bullplop from Liston in the Indo this morning how could you not want to go afightin'!



Jim Gavin has said he's expecting a big Kerry challenge on Sunday and I guarantee you he won't be one bit disappointed. I've waxed lyrical about the Dubs all year and rightfully so - they're an exceptional team and deserve to be clear favourites given they've had the Indian sign over us since Stephen Cluxton's famous free in the 2011 All-Ireland final.

It used to be the case that if I got €1 for every time someone said, 'Jaysus Bomber, ye broke our hearts', when I went up the road to Dublin that I could have retired many moons ago, but the shoe is on the other foot now.
This Kerry team and their supporters are a wounded animal and they'll put their bodies on the line to make sure they're the last team standing. They have a cause and carrying that hurt will make a massive difference.

Last year it was evident from the off that the Dubs wanted it more. You could see it in the 50-50 clashes, their work-rate on and off the ball and their tackle count, but Kerry should be able to turn the tables on those fronts. Don't tell me that Dublin have trained as hard as Kerry or they have the same hunger. When you're beaten it stings and Kerry are fitter, more motivated, better prepared and organised than 12 months ago. I expect massive improvements this weekend.

Only half of last year's team will start and that brings the freshness we need. The kick-out strategy has been worked on for a year, we won't be just hoofing it out and there'll be no underestimating Brian Fenton this time.
The ball will be kicked out before you know it to put Dublin on the back foot and I see our defence starting with our full-forward line. Some times they'll retreat to the '45, then they'll step up on the kick-out.

Eamonn Fitzmaurice has also practised with sweepers which Kerry never really did before and there's going to be more aggression in the tackle to get turnovers. Our tackle count will come from a hunger which only this Kerry team could have.
Our management have learned lessons also and I think our match-ups will be spot on. I expect Shane Enright to take Bernard Brogan, Peter Crowley to pick up Diarmuid Connolly, David Moran assigned to Brian Fenton with Killian Young on Paddy Andrews, if he is picked to start.

I also can also see Paul Murphy being detailed on Ciarán Kilkenny. Having watched Dublin again and again for the last 12 months we know them inside out, all the homework has been done.
Kerry have a great history of learning from defeats and last year will really have hurt the players and management that they didn't go gung-ho to win. We weren't adventurous. We went in as All-Ireland champions and were found wanting but Kerry will give it a right go this time.

Everything that Kerry football stands for is at stake here and we're going to see something different. I remember the hurt my colleagues had in 1977 after losing two years in a row to Dublin and this team have the same yearning for redemption.
Dublin have their heel on our throat and we will fight tooth 'n' nail to make sure they don't press down on it. I think we'll have three or four styles of play, particularly in the full-forward line, which will be called upon at different stages depending on how things are going.

If the first style doesn't work we'll have another one, and another one, and another one after that. Physically, mentally and tactically we will leave everything out there and I'm not buying the argument that we don't have pace around the middle third either.
We've addressed that issue and we'll have legs there with the likes of Tadhg Morley, Brian Begley, Crowley, David Moran and Darran O'Sullivan. None of them are short of speed.

The bench will be a potent weapon also with a host of match-winners to come in and make the desired impact. Having Bryan Sheehan, the Gooch, Marc Ó Sé and Barry John Keane, to name a few, in reserve is a nice luxury.
We were totally off the mark last year but were still within a goal of them. This time we'll really test Dublin's fitness because we have worked ferociously hard. Fear is not an issue either and they have a serious chance of stopping the Dublin juggernaut.

To Kerry people this is huge. I played four All-Ireland's against Dublin and never lost to them and I can see the hurt in the current players. I know it's there. Everyone knows what football means down here; we've been on the hind tit with Dublin for a while and it's time that was put to bed once and for all.
When Dublin play well there's no doubt they're the best team out there but it isn't all about talent at this stage. Every team has talent but it comes down to hunger and want. That's why it's so hard to win back-to-back titles and the Kerry lads will make that lung-bursting run a lot quicker than last year.

There'll be total disregard for their health. We were bullied last year and we won't be bullied this time, Kerry need this victory more than Dublin do.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/eoin-liston-we-were-bullied-last-year-but-we-wont-be-bullied-this-time-34993790.html

---

Did the League final not happen?

If Kerry are relying on hunger and revenge and all that sort of stuff it will be a massacre.

[DeLorean]

Yeah some awful tripe out there, although Alan Brogan's piece wasn't overly inspiring either. Who does the bomber write for?

Having the hunger to win is a minimum requirement, both teams will have that in spades. They did last year too, Dublin were just better.

[BonnieShels]

Yeah some awful tripe out there, although Alan Brogan's piece wasn't overly inspiring either. Who does the bomber write for?

Having the hunger to win is a minimum requirement, both teams will have that in spades. They did last year too, Dublin were just better.

Brogan at leastr gave us some insight...

Darragh Ó Sé's article on Wednesday was a load of crap.

[DeLorean]

Darragh's are always pure tripe. Declan 'Sullivan gave a decent analysis of what Kerry need to do on gaa.ie. Granted there was some of the 'we hurting so we'll perform' stuff but that's par for the course.

Looking forward to it.

[BonnieShels]

Right...

Have we all digested that?

Watched the Sunday Game, still haven't watched the replay and I'm not getting into any arguments about the referee as I think he had a great game and as a result we got a classic.

2006 v Mayo still shades it in the GOAT stakes but it was wonderful and had everything.

[Real ale Madrid]

Was it really that good a game? or was it that we have been fed absolute tripe the whole season long and it just seemed great because of that. I'm not that convinced of its true quality. Kerry got 2 very lucky goals and only for that this would have been a cakewalk. Dublin/AIG are killing football slowly one game at a time. The GAA is completely losing it amateur ethos with this - there needs to be a cap put on spending on all GAA teams.

[BonnieShels]

Was it really that good a game? or was it that we have been fed absolute tripe the whole season long and it just seemed great because of that. I'm not that convinced of its true quality. Kerry got 2 very lucky goals and only for that this would have been a cakewalk. Dublin/AIG are killing football slowly one game at a time. The GAA is completely losing it amateur ethos with this - there needs to be a cap put on spending on all GAA teams.


I was one of those who criticised the 2013 game for not being up there despite it being lauded to high heaven. I'm reserving full judgement until I rewatch the 2016 edition. But it's sticking out as a good one.

Kerry were gifted goals in one sense but those goals came after pressure on our kickouts, so they deserved them and aren't as soft as is being made out.

I completely refute this notion that we're killing the game. That's ridiculous!

For starters the AIG money hasn't begun to reap benefits (if it will at all) and secondly we've not won anything yet. This is an exceptional group of footballers brought through the ranks and we are reaping the benefits of those structures.

Kerry got to six finals in a row in the last decade... when we match maybe we'll look at it...

[Real ale Madrid]

I completely refute this notion that we're killing the game. That's ridiculous!

For starters the AIG money hasn't begun to reap benefits (if it will at all) and secondly we've not won anything yet. This is an exceptional group of footballers brought through the ranks and we are reaping the benefits of those structures.

Kerry got to six finals in a row in the last decade... when we match maybe we'll look at it...

Dublin have lost twice in 6 years. In the modern era you can't get much better than that. They are almost unbeatable now, they have got their act together in a major may in the last 15 years, and in a way good luck to them in another way but they are now resourced to such an extent that they are moving to a level that others can't match. Now if the GAA are happy that resources dictate results then fine. But if Dublin win say 3 in a row football titles then interest in an already generally poor product will wane even further.


I was one of those who criticised the 2013 game for not being up there despite it being lauded to high heaven. I'm reserving full judgement until I rewatch the 2016 edition. But it's sticking out as a good one.
.

MAybe I'm being too harsh, I'm not sure.



Kerry were gifted goals in one sense but those goals came after pressure on our kickouts, so they deserved them and aren't as soft as is being made out.


Ah come on - there is pressure on kick-outs and there is gifting possession to the opposition!

[BonnieShels]

Dublin have lost twice in 6 years. In the modern era you can't get much better than that. They are almost unbeatable now, they have got their act together in a major may in the last 15 years, and in a way good luck to them in another way but they are now resourced to such an extent that they are moving to a level that others can't match. Now if the GAA are happy that resources dictate results then fine. But if Dublin win say 3 in a row football titles then interest in an already generally poor product will wane even further.

You have somewhat of a point... look at hurling, but I think it would take a 10-in-row in football for interest to get there sue to the sheer volume that play.

Instead of Dublin falling back other teams need to come up to us and instead of bleating in the sidelines about it as always happen from smaller counties re resources, maybe ask for help? It's in our interests for the game to improve everywhere, but when the counties of Leinster actively accept their mediocrity then what can you do.

Why Wicklow for a start have never wanted help from us is astounding. There's kids growing up in Bray and surrounds wearing Dublin shirts. That shouldn't be.

I can only imagine the Dublin Co Board would be only to willing to help out and plan with other counties.

The money in the Dublin game goes from bottom to top and that's why we have this team right now. It's not like the Leinster Academy in rugby where they take the best form schools and separate them from clubs.

I mean, Fingallians and Castleknock aren't senior teams and look what they have in their squads.


MAybe I'm being too harsh, I'm not sure.

I'd reserve judgement yet...



Ah come on - there is pressure on kick-outs and there is gifting possession to the opposition!

The gift had to come from somewhere.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I lost interest in this GAA season very early on, and Limerick crashing out so quickly was only partially to blame. Kilkenny and Tipp in the hurling, again, Dublin and Mayo, again, in the football, and a mountain of negative tactics and boring stretches in both codes, that isn't made up for by a few entertaining semi-finals.