View Full Version : article about licensing in the indo
AT the top of the first flight of stairs inside the FAI's HQ in Merrion Square is the hub of the association's club licensing system.
Beyond the white door is a narrow office where four people somehow manage to successfully compete with filing cabinets and desks for enough space to work in.
Over the past few weeks in this cramped space they've been steadily burning the midnight oil in preparation for this weekend's meeting of the First Instance Committee.
The 22 Eircom League clubs had until December 17 to submit their licence applications showing how they measured up to the five key criteria of infrastructure, personnel & administrative, legal, financial and sporting.
When the applications arrived in Merrion Square they were broken into their five constituent parts and handed to five experts for analysis. FAI Technical Director Packie Bonner examined the sporting criteria and an accountancy firm went through the financial criteria. Those looking at the infrastructure requirements have visited all 20 league grounds (two clubs are ground-sharing) over the past month to check clubs have done what they say they have.
The detailed reports of all the experts have now been submitted and when the seven members of the Committee gather at a Dublin hotel on Friday they will be presented with 22 reports and recommendations from Bob Breen, the FAI's Club Licensing Manager.
Nonetheless, they'll go through each licence application with a fine toothcomb and decide what type of licence, if any, each club should receive. Any club which fails to get a licence will not be able to play in the Eircom League this year.
Last season the First Instance Committee refused to award club licences to Shamrock Rovers and Limerick because neither had a suitable ground to play their games in at the time but both successfully appealed that decision.
With the introduction of the Club Infrastructure Plan the spotlight has now switched and it will be financial criteria where clubs could be in trouble.
"Providing we get all of the information that the clubs are required to submit, every club has the opportunity to cross the line. But there will be a more intensive examination this year of financial criteria," explains Breen.
"Clubs looking for a licence will need to have their financial affairs in order because no grants will be given to them by the Government if they don't have a club licence."
Recent discussions between the FAI and the Government has resulted in a strategy for finally drawing down the £3million which was allocated in December 2003 to help clubs meet their infrastructural requirements.
The Government have been given copies of each club's stadium certificate report and club infrastructure development plan and work that needs to be done has been prioritised. The 20 clubs with grounds of their own will benefit, with priority being given to the four clubs who have qualified for Europe this season.
Two years into licensing, Breen believes that the benefits are now beginning to accrue, not only to the clubs and the Eircom League but to the association and football in general.
The Department has compiled a massive database of information that can handle queries ranging from those of a schoolboy club in Kerry wanting to know where to buy corner flags from a reputable supplier in their area to a request from international boss Brian Kerr to know next November what the size the pitches will be at the 2006 World Cup finals.
Before Christmas FAI Interim chief executive John Delaney admitted that mistakes had been made in the licensing process but there is certainly a determination on behalf of the association to make sure that credibility is restored.
Positive proof of that could arrive in the coming week when UEFA will announce if the FAI has complied with its exacting standards. Two audits of the association's licensing department were carried out in May and November of last year by external auditors.
The thumbs up from UEFA would have tangible benefits for the FAI. By becoming a certified association, it would be entitled to have the running of its licensing system funded by the governing body, something guaranteed to put a smile on the face of the association's moneymen.
It's a further indication of UEFA's commitment to licensing and next week we'll find out just how serious the Eircom League clubs are about it.
Gerry McDermott
Bootroom
© http://www.unison.ie/
patsh
19/01/2005, 10:48 AM
It says that this year they will concentrate more on the financial criteria. Does anyone know what exactly this means?
I'm not having a go at any club, but last season Rovers had no ground, but still managed to get a licence. It's common knowledge that they are financially up sh*t creek, SPA could be in trouble, so could Bohs, but is there any real danger that these clubs will be refused a licence?
dcfcsteve
19/01/2005, 10:53 AM
Hell no.
The Eircome League is like a school class where nobody is allowed to be given bad marks.
I predict a good few A Licenses, with the rump of the league on b's. No failures, and certainly no attempt to do what the rules say should happen to any clubs who do fail - i.e. not be able to join the rest of the class next term.
I'm not having a go at any club, but last season Rovers had no ground, but still managed to get a licence. It's common knowledge that they are financially up sh*t creek, SPA could be in trouble, so could Bohs, but is there any real danger that these clubs will be refused a licence?
Ifthe rule is that wages can only be a certain percentage of turnover (and I forget whether that was true and haven't time to re-read the document), most clubs in the league will be struggling to make it.
No one will be refused a licence though - they'll find a fudge somewhere....
the problem from the start has been the fai and league not the clubs - the clubs were promised the quid pro quo - get ure plan in place and we'll fund it - it was all BS - they never funded anything and left the licensing committee look like fools
Cork will struggle to gain one, with no ground of their own and a wage bill as large as dolans waistline
patsh
19/01/2005, 11:01 AM
Cork will struggle to gain one, with no ground of their own and a wage bill as large as dolans waistline
and the obssession goes on and on and on and on and........:rolleyes:
Hmmmm......
Rovers - no ground, financially f*cked : got a licence
SPA - Stadium of Utter Sh*te, a disgraceful hole, financially in trouble - got a licence
City - Have put huge sums into the upgrade of the Cross so thats its probably the best ground in the country, financially sound club
So much for what passes for your "argument".....:rolleyes:
....or maybe its too close to the bone for you to bear, put your head in the sand, you may as well, theres eff all to see in the trophy cabinet - maybe you can frame a few press cuttings listing all the excuses - they must run in to the 100's now :rolleyes:
patsh
19/01/2005, 11:11 AM
....or maybe its too close to the bone for you to bear, put your head in the sand, you may as well, theres eff all to see in the trophy cabinet - maybe you can frame a few press cuttings listing all the excuses - they must run in to the 100's now :rolleyes:
Now, Now little boy, your obssession is becoming embarassing. Have a look at your own f*cked up little club and try to get over your jealousy of Cork City.
This is largely a cork city type forum and so you're going to get a lot of people all slapping each other on the back and agreeing with each other - it takes on a sort of agreed skewed version of reality - if I spoil the cosy concensus by pointing out that you haven't won anything under the manager - who is constantly moaning to the media - its just pointing out hard fact. If it gets up the noses of patsh and his crew - so what? Thats not obssession - its more community service - helping people here get some perspective.
dcfcsteve
19/01/2005, 11:58 AM
This is largely a cork city type forum and so you're going to get a lot of people all slapping each other on the back and agreeing with each other - it takes on a sort of agreed skewed version of reality - if I spoil the cosy concensus by pointing out that you haven't won anything under the manager - who is constantly moaning to the media - its just pointing out hard fact. If it gets up the noses of patsh and his crew - so what? Thats not obssession - its more community service - helping people here get some perspective.
To be fair WWS, what has any of this got to do with licensing...?
nothing, its a reply to the above two posters
MariborKev
19/01/2005, 12:05 PM
cork cty will find it easiest of all to get a liecence id say. great stadium, good finances, everything above board etc. which is a lot more than can be said for nearly every other eircom club..
Yes, thats why youse were first to get it last year isn't it..........
Have to agree with WWS here, of course there is probably a majority of Cork City fans amongst the eL fans round here but some of you do get delusion at times. See the post regarding the think that Jet2 decided to launch the Cork Belfast route in order to capitalise on the Rebel Army :rolleyes:
well getting back to licensing its not a level playing pitch for all clubs - if the euro qualifiers are favoured in infrastructure grants well than how the hell can the other clubs be judged on the same stringent criteria - its inherently unfair and a ridiculous imposition - of course it will be fudged - and so it should be.
Our clubs cannot raise capital costs and operate as well - therefore most of the government graants are pretty much lying idle
we need to unlock these funds by doing away with requirements to provide matching funds from the clubs own resources and we need to spread them evenly instead of unfairly favouring certain clubs and those who moan loudest
paudie
19/01/2005, 12:53 PM
well getting back to licensing its not a level playing pitch for all clubs - if the euro qualifiers are favoured in infrastructure grants well than how the hell can the other clubs be judged on the same stringent criteria - its inherently unfair and a ridiculous imposition - of course it will be fudged - and so it should be.
Our clubs cannot raise capital costs and operate as well - therefore most of the government graants are pretty much lying idle
we need to unlock these funds by doing away with requirements to provide matching funds from the clubs own resources and we need to spread them evenly instead of unfairly favouring certain clubs and those who moan loudest
Surely it makes sense to aid Euro qualifiers first since they have to comply with even more stringent UEFA ground criteria. it wouldn't reflect on the league as a whole if there was only 1 ground in the country was capable of holding a UEFA cup game.
Once the Euro qualifiers are up to scratch for UEFA the rest of the money can be distributed to other clubs.
I don't think there's any hope of doing away with the requirement for clubs to match grants. As far as I know this applies to all Department of Sport and Lottery grants, not just EL grants.
In an earlier post you said the fact that Cork City rent their ground should be a negative factor in getting a licence. Are you kidding!! As far as I know all Italian and most German clubs rent their grounds from the local council.
Why should a club be penalised for having a perfectly legal and straightforward rental agreement in place? Derry rent their ground as well.
OneRedArmy
19/01/2005, 1:01 PM
no other club in ireland will ever be as big as cork city.
WHat a ridiculous comment! I presume you're either very young or don't know your LoI history, as if you did you'd know that even avoiding the issue of trophies won, the crowds come and go with most clubs over the years.
For example, I'm sure some Derry fans thought the same way in the mid-late 80's when we filled every ground up and down the country. Needless to say it didn't last. And we even won a few trophies.
Getting back to the licensing, I would say infrastructure shouldn't be a problem for Cork, but I've no idea on how they or any other teams stand re the financials or admin requirements. It all depends how detailed the testing of the financials is by the FAi's financial consultants.
I'm sure there'll be some sort of fudge to keep everybody happy again though.
Citygirl
19/01/2005, 1:14 PM
Yes, thats why youse were first to get it last year isn't it..........
Have to agree with WWS here, of course there is probably a majority of Cork City fans amongst the eL fans round here but some of you do get delusion at times. See the post regarding the think that Jet2 decided to launch the Cork Belfast route in order to capitalise on the Rebel Army :rolleyes:
ever heard of a sense of humour? you hardly think that was serious?
If it gets up the noses of patsh and his crew - so what? Thats not obssession - its more community service - helping people here get some perspective.
Here s a little community service for you: go see a doctor. It might help you.
You managed to turn an thread about club licencing into yet another attack on Dolan, his weight and Cork City. Get a life and cop yourself on....:rolleyes:
MariborKev
19/01/2005, 1:35 PM
That example may be a hyperbole but there are countless others, some of the Cork fans posting on the IL forums has me in stitches
See the "no other club will ever be as big as Cork City" within this thread as further evidence of the burgeoning over importance which unfortunately has become prevalent amongst some(and there are loads of exceptions) of the "Rebel Army"
That example may be a hyperbole but there are countless others, some of the Cork fans posting on the IL forums has me in stitches
See the "no other club will ever be as big as Cork City" within this thread as further evidence of the burgeoning over importance which unfortunately has become prevalent amongst some(and there are loads of exceptions) of the "Rebel Army"
Take it easy!
Supporters of all clubs are bound to make out that their club is the biggest, the best etc.
Do supporters of Derry say their club is sh*te, going nowhere etc?
Some people are a bit ott in their claims for their club, but there are some who are positively ridiculous in their attempts to have a go at some clubs. Witness the ludicrous comment on Cork City, Pat Dolan and his weight. What has that got to do with licencing. It would be humourous, if it was not yet another of a string of endless posts in the same vein.
I love the way some posters love to think they are winding people up, yet when a few things are posted back at them, they get all offended....:rolleyes:
It's a forum, people slag, wind up other posters, slag off other clubs and exagerate about their own clubs. We wouldn't have a lot to post about otherwise would we?
and anyway I think you should stay in your own country, and stop posting in ours.
OneRedArmy
19/01/2005, 1:48 PM
and anyway I think you should stay in your own country, and stop posting in ours.
What country are we posting in, the Free State or the People's Republic of Cork? :D
What country are we posting in, the Free State or the People's Republic of Cork? :D
:D :D :D
Nice one!
answering every post with "ure obssessed" is just insulting my intelligence with what little you have of your own
counter ANYTHING I say by all means - but ffs use some imagination or thought in your replies :rolleyes:
it was a cheap shot at his waistline, granted - but ppl take him and his pronouncements too pompously around these parts - on any cursory examination a lot of wot he comes out with is pure blarney! in its purest form!
back on topic - licensing - to the poster that said matching funding cant be done away with - oh yes it can - and has - if theres a will theres a way - the GAA have by passed most requirements and been given "no strings" gifts - in relation mainly to croke park (on a local level sporting organisations in constituencies of prominent ministers always bypass the letter of the conditions of grant aid - its a fact of life in this country)
Enforcing licensing without even handed infrastructural support is simply wrong and defeats any purpose to the scheme. It really is a matter for the FAI to bargain a granta aid programme from government - otherwise like last year - they can fck off with their licensing requirements
jofyisgod
19/01/2005, 2:20 PM
It really is a matter for the FAI to bargain a granta aid programme from government - otherwise like last year - they can fck off with their licensing requirements
Agree 100%-clubs are almost being dumped up shít creek without a paddle.
If we did this properly, i doubt anyone would get a sodding licence. It's shoddy and almost certainly too early for most clubs.
Longfordian
19/01/2005, 2:28 PM
The stupidest part of the licensing process was the clubs voting in the manual unanimously then finding they couldn't comply with it, our manual is, on paper, one of the most extensive submitted to UEFA
harry crumb
19/01/2005, 2:28 PM
I think finance is a good area to focus on as too often in recent times clubs are getting into difficulties with wages and there is a lack of long term thinking.
Kilkenny are a great example of a club living within their means. They are gradually improving their stadium and have a long term strategy. Ok they might not be setting the league alight, but compare their finances to Shamrock Rovers or Dundalk.
holidaysong
19/01/2005, 2:41 PM
I think finance is a good area to focus on as too often in recent times clubs are getting into difficulties with wages and there is a lack of long term thinking.
Kilkenny are a great example of a club living within their means. They are gradually improving their stadium and have a long term strategy. Ok they might not be setting the league alight, but compare their finances to Shamrock Rovers or Dundalk.
Our recent bad press with the pfai over wages ain't going to do us any favours in the finance area - the one area they marked as focusing on.. :(
Our recent bad press with the pfai over wages ain't going to do us any favours in the finance area - the one area they marked as focusing on.. :(
In fairness, your bad press was a result of you not honoring wages, rather than the fault of the players union.
holidaysong
19/01/2005, 2:49 PM
In fairness, your bad press was a result of you not honoring wages, rather than the fault of the players union.
I didn't mean to imply it was their fault for mouthing off about it, they were entitled to do it but if the FAI are focusing on finance and making sure players are paid etc before a licence is granted we may not be able to make such assurances.
dcfcsteve
19/01/2005, 2:55 PM
I didn't mean to imply it was their fault for mouthing off about it, they were entitled to do it but if the FAI are focusing on finance and making sure players are paid etc before a licence is granted we may not be able to make such assurances.
Not having a go at Dundalk, and I'd hate to see anything happen to the club, but there should be no way in the world a club that can't even assure the FAI that its players will be paid should be allowed in the league. It makes everyone else look amateurish, and gives the whole league a bad name. Could also feck-up the fixture schedule if such a team was to bomb-out mid-season.
Are any other clubs in this boat as well (Rovers ?) ?
See the "no other club will ever be as big as Cork City" within this thread as further evidence of the burgeoning over importance which unfortunately has become prevalent amongst some(and there are loads of exceptions) of the "Rebel Army"
In fairness, while that statement may come accross as being a little OTT, it is actually probably true. Whether you like it or not at the moment Cork City are by far the biggest club in the country and I think the only other club with the potential to be as big is Derry.
As for wws and his obsessed ramblings, we should be used to the jealous SPA fans by now lads. They'd love to have Dolan back but instead they are stuck with some Jackeen traveller lookalike nobody who won't be able to stop their clubs decline. The jealousy is best ignored.
Anyway, back to licensing. I heard last week that only 4 premier clubs (of which City were one) were taking it seriously and submitted their application on time. If that's true, and I have no reason to doubt it, it is a joke and shows what a shambles the FAI and so many clubs in our league are.
thats the nature of league of ireland football
all clubs are living beyond their means - even shels - the envy of every other club are openly speculating
football, especially league of ireland football does not offer consistent - constant revenue streams - every club that kicks of this new season will be praying for a good run, a good cup run - any revenue - none of them will have a budget which exactly matches their weekly outgoings every week
people are really missing the point here
Anyway, back to licensing. I heard last week that only 4 premier clubs (of which City were one) were taking it seriously and submitted their application on time. If that's true, and I have no reason to doubt it, it is a joke and shows what a shambles the FAI and so many clubs in our league are.
so a club who insist on substandard training facilities is taking it seriously :rolleyes:
get off the high horse - no structured grant aid is forthcoming so we're ALL in a mess - and licensing is pure pr window dressing
so a club who insist on substandard training facilities is taking it seriously :rolleyes:
get off the high horse - no structured grant aid is forthcoming so we're ALL in a mess - and licensing is pure pr window dressing
As I said 4 clubs are taking it seriously (or as seriously as they can possibly take it) and Cork City are one of those clubs. You can guess at least one more of them. The fact that clubs like Pats and Rovers are allowed hold everything up is a disgrace.
answering every post with "ure obssessed" is just insulting my intelligence with what little you have of your own
counter ANYTHING I say by all means - but ffs use some imagination or thought in your replies :rolleyes:
How can I insult your "intelligence" when you display none whatsoever?
Your "intelligent" post about UEFA club licencing consisted of a ridiculous statement about Cork City and a cheap, petty shot at Pat Dolan, which is the norm for most of your postings.
In any discussion thread, I will agree/disagree with any posts you can muster up on the topic. However, endless digs at CCFC/Pat Dolan, no matter what the thread, deserve nothing but the contempt I have already expressed.
holidaysong
19/01/2005, 3:18 PM
Not having a go at Dundalk, and I'd hate to see anything happen to the club, but there should be no way in the world a club that can't even assure the FAI that its players will be paid should be allowed in the league. It makes everyone else look amateurish, and gives the whole league a bad name. Could also feck-up the fixture schedule if such a team was to bomb-out mid-season.
Are any other clubs in this boat as well (Rovers ?) ?
Although maybe they should, I doubt the FAI would kick us out.
As I said 4 clubs are taking it seriously (or as seriously as they can possibly take it) and Cork City are one of those clubs. You can guess at least one more of them. The fact that clubs like Pats and Rovers are allowed hold everything up is a disgrace.
your basis for that assertion?
aside from rambling speculation now.
The only hard facts we have are from your manager - you train in substandard facilities according to him - I wonder what Packie Bonner has to say when marking the "sporting set up" column
substandard facilities - yeah - leading the way - taking it seriously!
Are any other clubs in this boat as well (Rovers ?) ?
Are Bohs in trouble? Not to the same extent as Rovers maybe, but there seems to be a lot of concern on their mb about finance.
In fairness, while that statement may come accross as being a little OTT, it is actually probably true. Whether you like it or not at the moment Cork City are by far the biggest club in the country and I think the only other club with the potential to be as big is Derry.
Ah come one, it's not that long since Cork were getting smaller crowds than the Dublin clubs they now claim to be dwarfing.
Ah come one, it's not that long since Cork were getting smaller crowds than the Dublin clubs they now claim to be dwarfing.
TBH not really.
Even when things were "going badly" for us post Bishopstown we'd still have the some of the highest attendances going, alot with Pats (at the time) and Derry (depending on how they were doing). Of course there were ups and downs but if you did out an average over the past say 8 seasons I'd put down a fair few quid in saying that City would come out on top
But then again we'll never know since attendances dont have to be reported publicly
Ah come one, it's not that long since Cork were getting smaller crowds than the Dublin clubs they now claim to be dwarfing.
Not really Macy. Even at our lowest points we still got at least as much as the Dublin clubs if you were to work out the averages.
Up until a few years ago we were getting small enough away crowds alright but now we have by far the biggest away support aswell.
Anyway, lets try and keep this on topic from now on. So licensing...........
and what difference has it made?
answer none. theres seems to be no payback in terms of revenue for the club or ability to finance the best players or provide them with training facilities. Shels have consistently miniscule crowds but have infinitely more resources at their disposal
They have made the "bigger crowd than u" argument redundant - in effect its irrelevant - a club with a following no bigger than dublin city have p.ssed all over cork in every aspect of filding a top team and providing them with the best facilities
Longfordian
19/01/2005, 3:33 PM
Where did the 4 clubs taking it seriously come out of? We've certainly been taking it as seriously as we can, a lot of work going into it
Where did the 4 clubs taking it seriously come out of? We've certainly been taking it as seriously as we can, a lot of work going into it
I'd be assuming Longford would be one of those 4 alright. I'd also think Derry, who's the other one?
I obviously can't say where I heard it but I have no reason not to believe it.
yup
sounds like rambling blarney alrite
Longfordian
19/01/2005, 3:42 PM
I think most clubs are going to have some issues that have to be solved but it's harsh to say they're not taking it seriously..Well for all I know maybe they're not but it's hard to imagine it. I'd say Shels being a Euro qualifier would have to be taking it seriously
observer
19/01/2005, 4:07 PM
Hey Soc, just an off thread comment but couldn't help noticing your signature comment from Adam's regarding "Crime's like this". Very interesting in view of recent statements from Sinn Fein regarding what does not constitute a crime.
Ye can go back to the arguing now lads. ;)
A face
19/01/2005, 10:45 PM
sounds like rambling blarney alrite
I think for the most part, City fans would stay kinda quite but i cant help but think that alot of them as staying quitely smug when they witness your posts.
Not having a dig at you, but sometimes it is more dignified to stay quite instead of rattling off like your good self, just advising ya is all !!
I suppose when you win something- quietly smug might be appropriate- but you never do!
A face
20/01/2005, 1:11 PM
....
wws .... i was trying to give you a way out, i forgot you have to have the sense to take it aswell though :p
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