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McConville son calls on SF's McLaughlin to resign
The son of a Belfast woman murdered by the IRA in 1972 today called on Sinn Féin negotiator Mr Mitchel McLaughlin to resign after he said on television her killing "was not a criminal act". "I think Mitchel McLaughlin should resign from his post after the comments he made last night about my mother," Mr Michael McConville (left) said. Mr McLaughlin had described her killing as wrong but "not a criminal act" during a debate with the Minister for Justice last night.
just goes to show what scum fein are really about did anyone else see primetime last night and see how much sh~t mitchel mclaughin came out with.
that scum fein were not criminals even though they rob torture and undermine a sovreign taoiseach
:rolleyes:
I was just about to post it, got there before me.
Shocking and amazing what these boyos can come up with and still claim to be a democratic party.
Just the latest, in a long line, of insults to their fellow Irish men and women who they have betrayed at ever oppertunity when it suits their private aims.
Neat point made though, by someone who phoned in.
Sinn Fein have spent the past few weeks whinging about the need for 'proof' before pointing the finger for the robbery. Yet when the IRA were asked for 'proof' of decommissioning by way of a photo, they all felt the request outrageous...
Never mind all the 'proof' they never had for 1000's of people they killed when acting as Judge, Jury and Executioner
oh yea and lads dont forget Adams was never in the IRA:rolleyes:
barglee
18/01/2005, 6:23 PM
ya saw prime time.
dont understand how people vote for Sinn Fein. especially majority of nationalist population up north.
WeAreRovers
18/01/2005, 6:44 PM
exile - That's strange, on the bit I heard this morning Jean McConville's son also accused McDowell of political pointscoring using his mother's death. But don't let that get in the way of your prejudices.
Conor - Sorry to dissapoint you but outside of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib "proof" is still required for criminal prosecutions. Don't forget that Ordd also accused the IRA of the Castlereagh break-in and of running a spy-ring in Stormont. Sum total of prosecutions from these accusations? Zero. Sum total of Peace Processes wrecked? One.
SÓC - You're really going to enjoy the inevitable FF/SF coalition aren't you?
KOH
exile - That's strange, on the bit I heard this morning Jean McConville's son also accused McDowell of political pointscoring using his mother's death. But don't let that get in the way of your prejudices
KOH
ya your dead right it is political point scoring but its the truth though scum fein/ira dont think that murder robbing and torture is criminal in a democratic society.
so by your logic its ok to break the law in this country if your a member of scum fein. :rolleyes: ???????????
and your right i am prejudices, im prejudices against scum fein/ira for the way they pretend to be a democratic party in this country and how they think dont have to obey the laws of the land .
honestly the similaritys between scum fein/ira and the nazis of the thirtys are astounding even their economic policies
Sure it was a criminal act,but the 'wild west' scenario prevailing on all sides in those days in the osc-meant that all sorts of acts,inc.murder have been selectively 'labelled',as part of the process of trying to deal with this mess!
Btw,These acts inc.those by the IRA,the loyalist paramilitaries & er,the British Army!Dont think you can just point the finger @ :rolleyes: just one side.
everyone keeps sayingdont forget what the british army did nobody has
but the issue down here is the lies scum fein have told and why are they not subject to the laws of the land
dortie
18/01/2005, 7:40 PM
Try living there! :rolleyes:
Extremes breed extremes;The Tans' 'divide-&-rule' interference created this situation!Obviously,your knowledge of history is not that extensive? :confused:
Very true. Most Nationalist in the North have grown used to these particular comments from certain sections of the Southern population. It actually enrages me to read the **** that exile posts. He is either the son of a British noble man or has got a serious personal gripe with SF.
Although the people he refers to couldnt give a rats ass about his pathetic ramblings.
liam88
18/01/2005, 7:47 PM
[first post for a bit-computers still down!]
Going with Dav and exile on this one.........aye it was sick an messed up; many of their actions were and have affected members of ma family :(
Though the prisoner releases from Long Keash were even worse! People whp had shot innocent pub-goers, attacked funeral mourners with hand grenades and blown up a fish shop were among those released......the bigger picture is, unfortunatley; due to the scale of violence in the North pre-1998, the one who had the power found it necessary to let criminal acts slide for the sake of a relative peace.
Michael Stone, Johhny Adair and Paul Hill (I think) are just three who have commited some disgusting criminal acts but these have had to ' let slide and be forgotten' for the sake of the peace that exists in the North today.
I personally think there could have been a far better way of finding peace and that murderers should never be released but unfortunatley I was to young and not in the political spectrum during 1998 so I didn't really have a say.......the ones who did have a say decided on releasing them and letting what happend go and it's sad to say but we cannot do anything about that now, although the relatives and friends will never be able to let go and will, rightfully, never stop trying to change what happend.
Having said this the majority of the public in the Republic and the North voted in favour of the Agreement INCLUDING releases and subsequently letting such actions as the dissapered go into the past....mabye the need for peace was so desperate at the time that people felt it was necessary
Partizan
18/01/2005, 8:12 PM
Dortie,
but we do actually give a damn about the disgusting comments from McLaughlin and the Provos disregard of the democratic will of the vast majority of people on the island for peace.
Provisonal Sinn Fein/PIRA have no place in the democratic process as long as they engage in their criminal acts and keep private paramilitary armies that are an affront to our civil liberties and the institution of the state as a whole.
I see that you are an apologist for crime lords like Slab Murphy and his disgusting fascist cohorts that ply their sick trade and fortune off the backs of the misery of others. These sectarian monsters should never be accomodated in any political settlement. If Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness have any vestige of political priniciple, they should jettison the likes of the Slab Murphy's and join the rest of us in democratic process.
FF/PSF coalition will never happen
dortie
18/01/2005, 8:17 PM
ive been waiting for the terrorists chief apologist for foot.ie to post you must be the son of osama bin laden or have a serious gripe with the democratic principles of this country so go rob a bank or murder and torture innocent women and children and then come back and brazen it out and say it wasnt a criminal act cause im member of sinn fein :rolleyes:
or you could always send some of your facist friends round to my place and intimidate my family :rolleyes:
You would seriously need to wise yourself up.
Democratic principles ??? You obviously havent a clue as to what they are when you label SF voters/members as 'Scum' and 'Terrorists', they represent over 55% of Catholic votes up here, you have Just labelled almost 200,000 people in the same context with your biased and pro-British ramblings.
I dont consider Osama Bin Laden in the same political arena as SF either. You Just look as stupid as your posts suggest with such a remark.
As for my facist friends, I dont know any, I Just know alot of patriotic and educated people who love this country.
Always remember something in future when you refer to SF and its voters remember your not talking about a small little group of people. Your infatuation with democracy only seems to go so far as it suits your individual biased view.
ive been waiting for the terrorists chief apologist for foot.ie to post you must be the son of osama bin laden or have a serious gripe with the democratic principles of this country so go rob a bank or murder and torture innocent women and children and then come back and brazen it out and say it wasnt a criminal act cause im member of sinn fein :rolleyes:
or you could always send some of your facist friends round to my place and intimidate my family :rolleyes:
exile,
less of the personal attacks please. and while I'm at it, can you stop with the "scum fein." Your feelings are perfectly clear on the matter. I've moved the above post to rubbish. that goes for everyone in this thread- slag the politics of the situation and deabte them, but less of the personal abuse please
Éanna
Some very interesting post on this. As I've said before, the only reason I didn't vote SF last time out was because of their support for the McCabe killers. Now they've just gone and given me a second reason. I cannot believe that a man of McLaughlins political know-how and obvious intelligence was STUPID enough to say this, even if its what he was thinking. It was a despicable thing to say, and is comparable to the British Army defending bloody sunday, and the british government trying to cover it up- if you legitimise it, you're defending it. It was an appalling comment for anyone to make. I feel sorry for Adams and McGuinness- I still believe they are well-intentioned when it comes to the peace process, but surrounded by gangsters with morals like this won't get them anywhere. The history of republicanism has been full of splits and cries of treason. I had hoped that under Adams and McGuinness, the republican struggle would move onto a wholly peaceful level together and without any splits, as I thought that was the best way forward. Its now obvious that they need to ditch the kind of filth that legitimises the execution of an unarmed person, and move forard in their own right. Walking the path to peace is a hell of a lot more difficult if your shoes are caked in shít like McLaughlin
Partizan
18/01/2005, 8:40 PM
Eanna,
I think that there will be a split in the Provo ranks with Adams and McGuinness going one way and McLaughlin and Slab Murphy going another.
Plus the McCabe killers are threatening to release some hot info on Martin Ferris that could very well damage his reputation.
About Adams' and McGuinness's perceived innocence in all this sorry mess, remember both men were/are on the Army Council and knew that the south Armagh nutters were going to pull this off. This doesnt of course absolve Adams and McGuinness of previous Provo atrocities and bombings.
Under no circumstances would I vote for the Provos unless:
a) they fully renounce violence and begin decommisioning (same goes for British Army & Loyalist paramilitaries.
b) they agree to give up criminal activities and jettison Slab and co.
Under no circumstances would I vote for the Provos unless:
a) they fully renounce violence and begin decommisioning (same goes for British Army & Loyalist paramilitaries.
b) they agree to give up criminal activities and jettison Slab and co.
agreed. As I said, I honestly believe Adams wants peace and wants to make progress, but I think he's holding himself back in an effort to keep the "movement" united, and he is being dragged down by scum. More fool him
MariborKev
18/01/2005, 9:24 PM
Some very interesting post on this. As I've said before, the only reason I didn't vote SF last time out was because of their support for the McCabe killers. Now they've just gone and given me a second reason. I cannot believe that a man of McLaughlins political know-how and obvious intelligence was STUPID enough to say this, even if its what he was thinking.
Eanna- Mitchel McLaughlin is merely a preprogrammed soundbyte machine in the SF mould. He may have political nous as if you listen to archive interviews with him you will find that he trots out the same phrases again and again and any attempt to get him to answer the question posed or to challenge the answer given seems him riled and return to script. I would qestion your belief in McLaughlin's obvious intelligent, as with the modern SF the spin is more than the substance of their argument. It is the same with a number of SF politicians, as you could see with how frustrated Adams and McGuinness have become in certain interviews over the last week when their credibility has been challenged.
The Shinners have been dealt a great deal of respect over the last few year and the number of searching interviews could be counted on one hand. The last few weeks has seen a reverse in this process with interviewer not prepared to merely accept their word, and it hasn't pleased them one bit
The Shinners have been dealt a great deal of respect over the last few year and the number of searching interviews could be counted on one hand. The last few weeks has seen a reverse in this process with interviewer not prepared to merely accept their word, and it hasn't pleased them one bit
very very true. I do think they have shown a lot of political intelligence in the way they have developed their party though.
CollegeTillIDie
18/01/2005, 10:32 PM
Whatever the rights and wrongs of what went on during the Troubles in the occupied territories during the 1969-1994 period, there was no excuse for robbing post offices SOUTH of the border or shooting unarmed Gardaí during a ceasefire in 1996 !
P.S. For the record if anyone wishes to question my right to express my views on this topic here are two facts : My second cousin got shot by the Brits in Co.Armagh during the 1970's and another cousin was parlayzed in a bomb blast, and has been in a wheelchair ever since. :(
SÓC - You're really going to enjoy the inevitable FF/SF coalition aren't you?
That'll be the day I hand in my card if PSF and the PIRA continue donw the road they are currently on.
I dont see why they should have to disband the IRA but bloody hell stop them being a front for some kinda Paddy Mafia, give up their guns, renounce violence. IF anything it would show up the Unionist for the bluffers that they are, they wouldnt know what to do then.
What really gets to me is all the bullshít they insist on coming out with ( ee my sig), see Adams claiming he was never in the IRA, see Adams comments that he doesnt recognise the Irish Courts, see Ó Snodaigh's buddy, the boyos in Colombia etc etc.
Throw in what McLoughlin said and Adare and you have the most dishonest and foot in mouth Party on the Irish scene (and thats some achievement)
I wonder what Brownie would have to say about it all
WeAreRovers
19/01/2005, 12:41 PM
I dont see why they should have to disband the IRA but bloody hell stop them being a front for some kinda Paddy Mafia, give up their guns, renounce violence. IF anything it would show up the Unionist for the bluffers that they are, they wouldnt know what to do then.
They already did. The IRA statement below delivered all that and more but the Unionists and certain elements down here couldn't stomach it. Also everyone seems to forget that NOBODY is being killed in the North. Are people suffering from collective amnesia when it comes to the bad old days?
Lets move on and create proper democratic structures in the 6 counties and peace and justice for all. As long as the DUP and their southern media and political cronies continue to dictate the agenda the chances of a return to the bad old days increase all the time. As someone pointed out above - if the democrats in SF are spurned at every turn then the Slab Murphys of this world will start to take control. And nobody wants that. Do they?
Full text of IRA Statement
"More than ten years ago, an IRA cessation publicly heralded the onset of the Irish peace process. Since then, the IRA has, time and again, demonstrated its commitment to sustaining and developing that process through a series of very significant and substantive initiatives.
In the context of the work to conclude a comprehensive agreement, the leadership of Óglaigh na hÉireann decided:
- to support a comprehensive agreement by moving into a new mode which reflects our determination to see the transition to a totally peaceful society;
- all IRA Volunteers be given specific instructions not to engage in any activity which might thereby endanger that new agreement;
- the IRA leadership also decided that we will, in this context, conclude the process to completely and verifiably put all our arms beyond use;
- we instructed our representative to agree with the IICD the completion of this process, speedily, and if possible by the end of December;
- to further enhance public confidence we agreed to the presence of two clergymen as observers during this process.
The IRA leadership decided to contribute in this way to a comprehensive agreement to resolve all outstanding issues, including those of concern within unionism. For his part, Ian Paisley demanded that our contribution be photographed, and reduced to an act of humiliation.
This was never possible. Knowing this, he made this demand publicly as the excuse for his rejection of an overall agreement to create a political context with the potential to remove the causes of conflict. As the IRA leadership has said before, this is a context in which Irish republicans and unionists can, as equals, pursue our respective political objectives peacefully.
We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation.
We commend our Volunteers and the wider republican base for their patience and discipline in these testing times. Our commitment, like theirs, to our republican objectives is undiminished.
We thank those who have made genuine contributions to the efforts to find solutions to ongoing problems. While acknowledging these efforts, we reiterate our view that progress cannot be made by pandering to the demands of those who are against change.
The search for a just and lasting peace is a challenging one. The IRA leadership has risen to that challenge. The British Government and the leaders of unionism must do likewise."
P O'Neill
Irish Republican Publicity Bureau
Dublin
.
In the context of the work to conclude a comprehensive agreement, the leadership of Óglaigh na hÉireann decided:
since when does the ira go on peace missions around the world :rolleyes:
joey B
19/01/2005, 1:32 PM
If evidence was found that the IRA did not carry out the robbery surely Hugh Orde would have to resign and public apologies would be the order of the day.
I believe that Hugh Orde jumped the gun in expressing his believe that IRA carried out the robbery he should have carried out a full private investigation of the crime gathered all possible evidence and then made his assertions in public, surely all possible culprits should have throulghy investigated and they could not of done this in such a short space of time.
They already did. The IRA statement below delivered all that and more but the Unionists and certain elements down here couldn't stomach it. Also everyone seems to forget that NOBODY is being killed in the North. Are people suffering from collective amnesia when it comes to the bad old days?
Ahhh no Im not denying that things are 100,000 times better but why do they still have to go on holding onto the guns, why do they feel the need to carry out spying opperations on TDs in the Republic!?! Why kill innocent Gardaí and then call for the release of the scum that did it. Why do they engage themselves in criminal activities. Why do they beat the fcuk out of people with baseball bats in the name of justice. Give it all up. Let the fcukers have their little photo if they say thats the only reason why it aint happening. Let them call it humiliation if they want.
Give the Unionist what they claim they need and then watch them squirm when they wont have a bloody clue what to do then. EG when asked what would happen if the Catholic population increased to such an extent that they could out vote the Unionists/Loyalists a senior DUP source said they'd have to repartition obviously:rolleyes:
They are politically weak but they can always point to the PIRA and their guns. They'd be shown up for the biggots that they are (well some of them).
Lets move on and create proper democratic structures in the 6 counties and peace and justice for all. As long as the DUP and their southern media and political cronies continue to dictate the agenda the chances of a return to the bad old days increase all the time. As someone pointed out above - if the democrats in SF are spurned at every turn then the Slab Murphys of this world will start to take control. And nobody wants that. Do they?
hear hear. I agree 100%
The only question is how do you move on? How can you move on when certain elements on both sides still have their finger on the trigger.
Interesting point about the southern media though. I think at times SF get off lightly down here; see the Ó Snodaigh thing and at times they dont; Northern Bank. IMO certain senior reporters dont want to damage their realtionships with exclusive sources at times but thats just me wildly speculating
dahamsta
19/01/2005, 3:21 PM
I've edited the title of this thread. I'm sick to death of seeing people use thread titles and posts to intentionally stir the pot. From now on I'll be binning threads that take this route. Either debate topics like an adult or do it elsewhere.
adam
Peadar
19/01/2005, 3:25 PM
I'm sick to death of seeing people use thread titles and posts to intentionally stir the pot.
adam
Any chance of a sub folder of Off Topic called "Politics 'n' Stuff"?
It all gets a bit depressing sometimes. :(
As is often the case, I'm really disturbed that there seems to be the notion on this forum that somehow IRA murders north of the border were acceptable whereas those south of the border were not. :(
I don't see Sinn Fein changing anytime soon. They don't see themselves or the IRA as capable of criminal activity; all of their actions are necessary and carried out because of the injustices of the past :rolleyes: .
As for them getting a large vote in NI, I'm not surprised, they campaign under the banner of 'a vote for peace'. Unfortunately, the irony of that is lost on many of the young, middle class nationalists who've swallowed the line hook line and sinker.
liam88
19/01/2005, 3:51 PM
Isn't Adams thinking of running for president in 2011? He'll want to get McCabe's death sorted by then....can't see him winning though anyway
dahamsta
19/01/2005, 4:49 PM
Any chance of a sub folder of Off Topic called "Politics 'n' Stuff"?
It all gets a bit depressing sometimes. :(I'm seriously tempted.
dortie
19/01/2005, 6:24 PM
Dortie,
but we do actually give a damn about the disgusting comments from McLaughlin and the Provos disregard of the democratic will of the vast majority of people on the island for peace.
Provisonal Sinn Fein/PIRA have no place in the democratic process as long as they engage in their criminal acts and keep private paramilitary armies that are an affront to our civil liberties and the institution of the state as a whole.
I see that you are an apologist for crime lords like Slab Murphy and his disgusting fascist cohorts that ply their sick trade and fortune off the backs of the misery of others. These sectarian monsters should never be accomodated in any political settlement. If Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness have any vestige of political priniciple, they should jettison the likes of the Slab Murphy's and join the rest of us in democratic process.
FF/PSF coalition will never happen
The thing is they dont give a damn what others think either, their as much Irish and entitled to their opinion as their critics. Democracy as you call it.
Provisional Sinn Fein DO have a place in the democratic process, the reason, they have a massive mandate to do so. Unlike the Workers Party who did not contribute anything to Irish politics.
Who said I was an apologist for 'Slab Murphy', is this the new name you came up with lately from your biased novels/media on the IRA ?
Personally I couldnt give a damn if the FF/PSF coalition didnt happen, I dont vote SF anymore but I am a Republican and will always respond to pro-British and anti-republican remarks.
dortie
19/01/2005, 6:30 PM
Eanna- Mitchel McLaughlin is merely a preprogrammed soundbyte machine in the SF mould. He may have political nous as if you listen to archive interviews with him you will find that he trots out the same phrases again and again and any attempt to get him to answer the question posed or to challenge the answer given seems him riled and return to script. I would qestion your belief in McLaughlin's obvious intelligent, as with the modern SF the spin is more than the substance of their argument. It is the same with a number of SF politicians, as you could see with how frustrated Adams and McGuinness have become in certain interviews over the last week when their credibility has been challenged.
The Shinners have been dealt a great deal of respect over the last few year and the number of searching interviews could be counted on one hand. The last few weeks has seen a reverse in this process with interviewer not prepared to merely accept their word, and it hasn't pleased them one bit
And tell us who you believe will move Republicans away from armed struggle ? It sure as hell wont be the failed SDLP, who apart from great economic policies have had no Interest/Influence on the question of Irish Unity. As I said earlier, Im not a SF lover of any sort anymore but I believe their political spokesmen have alot more to offer than the Alex Atwoods and Mark Durkans of this world.
dortie
19/01/2005, 6:40 PM
That'll be the day I hand in my card if PSF and the PIRA continue donw the road they are currently on.
And what roads that......constitutional politics ?
I know a large number of Republicans who think they have gone too far as it is. Thats what gets to me about all this anti SF carry on. Adams and McGuinness are treading on a fine line in terms keeping the majority of their support with them. The Mr Ordes, Aherns and Paisleys of this world are only proving one thing at the minute.........their going nowhere in the political arena.
Duncan Gardner
20/01/2005, 8:06 AM
Eanna/ Da' hamsta:
While you're at it (editing out rude puns on the name 'Sinn Fein'), any chance of a similar cull on 'osc' etc.? :)
Gerry running for la Presidente? When's the sex-change operation?
Dortie: nice to see you respecting democratic mandate from the voters. I expect to see you in talks with Dodds and Greg Campbell any day now...
JohnB
20/01/2005, 10:17 AM
Ah,the infamous osc.'moral high ground'..................some loyalists would only be happy if nationalists were back in their 'submissive' role,with patent disregard for the indigeneous population!This conveniently disregards the context through which the activities of their :mad: paramilitary cohorts & the :rolleyes: not unsurprising reaction of the,er,natives.
Until this is grasped by the 'planters',as the overall reason why the nationalists indulged in 'armed struggle',it's hardly surprising that everything the latter do,is subject to loyalist 'impartial' scrutiny!Suggest the Unionist/loyalist community put their own house :rolleyes: in order,before they start lecturing others.........
PS.osc= 'Occupied Six Counties' :rolleyes: A statement of fact!TAL! ;)
Same old, same old from you Davros. Just as there was no need for British soldiers to shoot civilians on Bloody Sunday, so there was no reason for the IRA to murder in the variety of ways that they did. Unlike yourself, I recognise that whataboutery gets us nowhere.
My remarks were aimed specifically at comments made on this forum and, I'd be equally quick to complain if the situation was reversed i.e murders north of the border being seen as more repellant than those south of the border.
JohnB
20/01/2005, 12:08 PM
Fair enough,but your Loyalist mates :confused: ...... :rolleyes: they'll be feeling all left out,now you didnt give them a mention?Whataboutery indeed.....
I have no loyalist mates and don't feel the need to balance every post. But just for your benefit I'll make it clear that, to my mind, loyalists gangsters and murderers are as repellant as their republican brothers in arms.
dahamsta
20/01/2005, 1:12 PM
If this is going to continue as a back and forth between the two of you, take it to PM please.
adam
Next you'll be saying yer in favour of :rolleyes: a united Ireland,then :confused:
Anyway,if you want to take the 'osc moral high ground',it would be as well to add some balance? ;)
Have to agree with dahamsta on this one. I'll see you on another thread. ;)
Peadar
20/01/2005, 2:15 PM
Happy to take it anywhere...
You're like a dog with a bone, Dav. ;)
Peadar
20/01/2005, 2:27 PM
If I were the News of the World I could take this comment;
Happy to take it anywhere
couple it with the reports that you promised to "get lubed up for the lads" and make a four page exclusive on the demise of the "Little Budda". :D
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