Irish involvement in the Football League playoffs

[paul_oshea]

Towell doesn't lack confidence and authority.
He just needs competitive games in order to settle in fully, he has more than enough skill levels for that championship standard and would have little problem with reaching required fitness levels.

Are you saying that Richie, is not at the required level of fitness at the minute?

[Charlie Darwin]

Wednesday rattled here. Westwood already beaten from a free kick but saved by the post.

[geysir]

Westy was a bit sloppy getting down to that one at his near post and spilled it.

[SkStu]

not watching as im at work but the bbc text updates suggest that Westwood is having a blinder.

[geysir]

I'm just in the door so I can only report on what I see, not past history
Westwood didn't command his area there at that free kick, came off his line with a weak effort to punch the ball but missed.

[Closed Account]

He's certainly been busy. No worldies or anything but has dealt with everything comfortably enough. His kickouts have been poor though, I thought that was one of his strong points.

[tetsujin1979]

Stockdale with the save of the game so far, at the end of the first half. Brighton running out of ideas with about 15 minutes to go. Wednesday defending for most of the game

[geysir]

Sounds like all the good stuff happened in the first half, the 2nd half is just hectic, hardly a decent effort on goal.
Based on the 2nd half, Wednesday are fully deserved to hold on to their advantage.

[Stuttgart88]

Good save by Stockdale alright but he was poor for the goal, even despite the push and not very inspiring in either keg. I think Westwoo has done well to come through bodies just to get anything on the ball at times. Two good saves, but saves you'd expect him to make. The goal was an excellent delivery that got a slight nick on the way through. He's had a decent game, not a blinder

[SkStu]

BBC - picture of Westwood and the words "Is there any way past this man?"

[Stuttgart88]

Sounds like all the good stuff happened in the first half, the 2nd half is just hectic, hardly a decent effort on goal.
Based on the 2nd half, Wednesday are fully deserved to hold on to their advantage.based on the first half you'd say it was a travesty of a result, but Wednesday were comfortable in the second.

[Stuttgart88]

BBC - picture of Westwood and the words "Is there any way past this man?"
Good save just there alright, after your post!

[geysir]

That was a good save.

[TrapAPony]

BBC - picture of Westwood and the words "Is there any way past this man?"

Not that it matters as it will only be for the 3rd choice goalkeeping position but it is pity that when it comes to the Euro selection that O'Neill will go for a League 1 bench warmer ahead of him.:eek:

[geysir]

They showed the first half highlights there and Westwood was excellent, a goalie at his peak. thriving like a pig in muck.

[DannyInvincible]

Not that it matters as it will only be for the 3rd choice goalkeeping position but it is pity that when it comes to the Euro selection that O'Neill will go for a League 1 bench warmer ahead of him.:eek:

It's frustrating enough that Westwood is unlikely to be first-choice, but it would be a travesty if he didn't even make the squad ahead of Forde.

[BonnieShels]

If they get to the EPL there's every chance that he will become a real headache for Monkeano.

Did Richie get his game in the end?

[DeLorean]

Richie didn't leave the bench. Yeah, hopefully SW get promoted and he's our only PL goalkeeper playing regularly, that should force the issue nicely.

[Fixer82]

Was McGeady injured? Felt for Towell, thought he would get his chance tonight.

[BonnieShels]

I as driving and OTB reported in the 65min about how the game had gone Richie was still on the bench. I honestly thought he would get on then. I mean at that stage it was all or nothing.

What is it about Hughton that he goes numb when things are against him? That being said I hope Wednesday get promoted, always had a wee grá for them. And I hope Brighton, finally get up next year. you almost felt that whoever finished third in the Championship would be gassed come the playoffs.

[SwanVsDalton]

It's frustrating enough that Westwood is unlikely to be first-choice, but it would be a travesty if he didn't even make the squad ahead of Forde.

When it comes to being a third choice, other factors come into play other than simple ability.

The travesty (if that's the right word) is Westwood not going as one or two. Third doesn't come into it for me. And I can't see a proven guy like Westwood travelling happily to help keep two others sharp (nor should he be).

[Charlie Darwin]

When it comes to being a third choice, other factors come into play other than simple ability.

The travesty (if that's the right word) is Westwood not going as one or two. Third doesn't come into it for me. And I can't see a proven guy like Westwood travelling happily to help keep two others sharp (nor should he be).
Why not?

[SkStu]

Why not?

Who in their right mind is happy to miss 3 to 4 weeks of Sunday mass to be third choice keeper at the Euros?

[Charlie Darwin]

Who in their right mind is happy to miss 3 to 4 weeks of Sunday mass to be third choice keeper at the Euros?
Not a good Catholic boy, that's for sure. Colour me badd, Stu, you've convinced me!

[Stuttgart88]

They showed the first half highlights there and Westwood was excellent, a goalie at his peak. thriving like a pig in muck.
I'm not putting him down, he had a good game for sure. But he only made two saves of note in the first half, one a weak finish from Wilson (who has a sweet first touch) and another tipped over the bar which was hit at a lovely height for him. I thought he dealt well with some tough in-swingers, showing strength to get something on the ball when he needed to. The 6 yard box was his and he let you know it. Lest we forget, he had one seriously fluffed kick :)

There is just no comparison between him and Shay in terms of sharpness and agility, and Randolph too. He just looks as if he sees things quicker. But Randolph does look good for us.

EDIT: RTE website headline "Westwood heroics...". Am I being too parsimonious in my praise?

[geysir]

The last (point blank) save he made diving to his right, is the enduring image, so yeah, Westwood was a heroic catholic boy last night.
There isn't much to choose between him and Randolph but my choice would be for the goalie who plays week in week out.

[OwlsFan]

Just recovering from the Alamo (the first half anyway). Reminded me of Ireland in Moscow a few years ago. Fingernail stuff and the saves Westwood was asked to make, he did. That's all you can ask of a keeper. Compare that to Stockdale in both games where he should have done better in two of the goals. His kick-outs weren't up to his usual standard and in a crowded box, he isn't too dominant but which keeper is?

As for McGeady, not injured as far as I am aware. The coach picked a defensive set of subs Rather than name McGeady on the bench, he opted for more defensive cover with Jeremy Helan plus the returning Sam Hutchinson. Whether, he'll do that for the Final, where he might need to change things, who knows. His usual option is to bring on man mountain Nuhiu who is Tony Cascarino gone wrong.

[paul_oshea]

Westwood didn't have much to do but looked the part nonetheless. It's just a body language thing (which Stockdale lacked) and he and Randolph both have it.

They both have body language but one can make agile saves. Body language and looking composed speaks nothing for actually having to do something when its needed.

Given looked composed and assured when stepping up to penalties, he rarely saved one..


Reminded me of Ireland in Moscow a few years ago. Fingernail stuff and the saves Westwood was asked to make, he did. That's all you can ask of a keeper. Compare that to Stockdale in both games where he should have done better in two of the goals. His kick-outs weren't up to his usual standard and in a crowded box, he isn't too dominant but which keeper is?

And thats the only statement that matters, he made the saves he was asked and expected to make, I can't say the same about any of our other keepers, and we have proof of this in the past. We can't afford to have a keeper that doesn't (like stockdale) as we won't have the ability to recover to score the goals required - just like Brighton didn't.

[paul_oshea]

BBC - picture of Westwood and the words "Is there any way past this man?"

I'll go with the BBC.

[paul_oshea]

If they get to the EPL there's every chance that he will become a real headache for Monkeano.

Did Richie get his game in the end?

If they are still here. I can't see them staying on if they have a bad, or a good tournament.

[tetsujin1979]

You'd have to imagine Newcastle and Norwich will be among the favourites for automatic promotion next season, not sure if Brighton will be in the mix again. This might have been their big chance for promotion.

[Stuttgart88]

I'll go with the BBC.There was a way past him. It was 1-1!

[Stuttgart88]

They both have body language but one can make agile saves. Body language and looking composed speaks nothing for actually having to do something when its needed.

Given looked composed and assured when stepping up to penalties, he rarely saved one..



And thats the only statement that matters, he made the saves he was asked and expected to make, I can't say the same about any of our other keepers, and we have proof of this in the past. We can't afford to have a keeper that doesn't (like stockdale) as we won't have the ability to recover to score the goals required - just like Brighton didn't.That's a bit disingenuous. For a start, Shay and penalties is just a dumb example.

Randolph and Stockdale are incomparable. Stockdale looked shaky right from the start of the first leg.

I agree on "making the saves you should make" point but it doesn't stop there. The body language thing is important. A team - especially a team like ours - needs a keeper with a presence and defenders need to be confident in him. It was clear last night that Westwood is 100% trusted by his teammates and owns his area. I can't say one way or the other about Randolph at West Ham but Randolph for Ireland has exuded authority. It surprised me, but it impressed me. I think he immediately brought something to our defence at home to Germany that was lacking with Shay. It's an intangible, hard to quantify thing. As an ex-keeper whose teammates used to shout "Nooooo!" when I shouted "Keeeeper's!!!" I should know.

Who do I trust more? Westwood? But I think you're overplaying the Randolph as a liability thing too. That's all.

[DeLorean]

EDIT: RTE website headline "Westwood heroics...". Am I being too parsimonious in my praise?

No, you're not at all. Stockdale, as dodgy as he was over the two legs, made by far the best save of the match. You may have been too parsimonious in your praise towards that actual save alright, I thought it was really top class. I'm glad Westwood's making the headlines though, merited or otherwise. The more that helps his case for inclusion the better.

Westwood did what you would expect but didn't have to pull anything out of the top drawer really, even the save late on that Geysir mentioned was pretty routine. Two dodgy kickouts as well, one he really fluffed which could have been dangerous and the other went straight out of play high up the pitch, not that it caused any harm really, just relinquished possession a bit too easily.

I agree with Geysir when he mentioned about "thriving like a pig in muck" tough. He's hyper active looking around his penalty area, always moving and keeping himself alert. I really like this about him and I think it probably helps with his reactions as he's on the go non-stop, when something happens he only has to react physically, as he's already there mentally.

I also agree with Paul's take generally, hyperbole aside as Randolph has been very good for us. I think it's vital we have our best goalkeeper between the sticks though. It's not a splitting hairs exercise, if he can manage to get a finger on one shot that Randolph or Given can't, it could (and probably will) make all the difference. It's arguably the most important position on the pitch when it comes to small margins making a massive difference, yet there will probably be more noise made about who starts in all of the other positions.

[OwlsFan]

I am not sure that the shot which went under the wall was routine. He was guarding the other side of the goal and had to get down very quickly and save it. Perhaps because he reads the shots so well they are routine. Even the free kick which came off the post, Westwood was very close to it.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree with Geysir when he mentioned about "thriving like a pig in muck" tough. He's hyper active looking around his penalty area, always moving and keeping himself alert. I really like this about him and I think it probably helps with his reactions as he's on the go non-stop, when something happens he only has to react physically, as he's already there mentally.
That's what I was referring to, or including, in my "body language" point. The way he operates - including his busy-ness -exudes positivity and confidence.

And yes, Stockdale's save was brilliant and at a crucial time too. You wouldn't want to be relying on him though - I think that's the kind of point we all agree on. What a goal it would have been though. Super break, sumptuous cross, bullet header...

[DeLorean]

I am not sure that the shot which went under the wall was routine. He was guarding the other side of the goal and had to get down very quickly and save it. Perhaps because he reads the shots so well they are routine. Even the free kick which came off the post, Westwood was very close to it.

It was the save late on that I meant was routine, good height and close to him. Obviously his positioning helped here as well though. The one you're talking about was a decent save alright but would probably have raised questions had it gone in.

[Stuttgart88]

I am not sure that the shot which went under the wall was routine. He was guarding the other side of the goal and had to get down very quickly and save it. Perhaps because he reads the shots so well they are routine. Even the free kick which came off the post, Westwood was very close to it.The guy who took it was livid with himself. He scuffed it. The idea was to hit it low and crisp but he didn't catch it right, so I'd say it was a routine save. Great idea...

I think Westwood was beaten all ends up by the free that hit the post! Inches and fractions of seconds are everything. He reacted well - others may have just stayed rooted - but he was second favourite all the way.

[paul_oshea]

I also agree with Paul's take generally, hyperbole aside as Randolph has been very good for us. I think it's vital we have our best goalkeeper between the sticks though. It's not a splitting hairs exercise, if he can manage to get a finger on one shot that Randolph or Given can't, it could (and probably will) make all the difference. It's arguably the most important position on the pitch when it comes to small margins making a massive difference, yet there will probably be more noise made about who starts in all of the other positions.

There is no hyperbole. I think most, maybe not you, have looked at him from September/October last year. I've "seen" him since his debut against Oman, and the away games in the USA. I am saying it because I know what he is capable of and what he is not, as you say the small things become big things, or fine margins can make all the difference. I can attribute 4-5 goals at least where a better keeper would have more than likely saved them. I'd say westwood would have at least got 2 or 3 of those as well.

[Stuttgart88]

There is no hyperbole. I think most, maybe not you, have looked at him from September/October last year. I've "seen" him since his debut against Oman, and the away games in the USA. I am saying it because I know what he is capable of and what he is not, as you say the small things become big things, or fine margins can make all the difference. I can attribute 4-5 goals at least where a better keeper would have more than likely saved them. I'd say westwood would have at least got 2 or 3 of those as well.I'd say they're all fair points and you could add some silly club goals too. I've said the same thing about those same games. The difference is how you present your argument (I, POS, have unique insight...) and the scale of it (his lack of agility WILL cost us, mark my words). I think it's a question of degrees. I'm happier with Randolph than I previously had been with Forde and Given. He's been good for us. Westwood would probably have been better or at least as good, but we can't know, he missed too many games.

[tetsujin1979]

There is no hyperbole. I think most, maybe not you, have looked at him from September/October last year. I've "seen" him since his debut against Oman, and the away games in the USA. I am saying it because I know what he is capable of and what he is not, as you say the small things become big things, or fine margins can make all the difference. I can attribute 4-5 goals at least where a better keeper would have more than likely saved them. I'd say westwood would have at least got 2 or 3 of those as well.


name these goals, and provide proof that Westwood would have saved them

[geysir]

I know Westwood is no Lev Yashin but he was more than just making routine saves out there, unless the standard is "routine first class goalkeeping".

I didn't think the Brighton lad scuffed that low free kick shot, he aimed into the corner, Westwood anticipated well, got down ahead of time, got a strong arm behind the ball and secured possession under pressure from a lurking Brighton player. That's first class goalkeeping, not just routine.
A routine save would be to parry the ball away and if he's lucky out of danger.
For the last save, routine would be to come way of his line and the ball struck straight at him, he would have been applauded for "making his body big" .)
As it was, he had to dive to his right, a fractions early instinctive save to firmly block a bullet with both his arms.

[DeLorean]

His usual option is to bring on man mountain Nuhiu who is Tony Cascarino gone wrong.

I thought it was a joy to behold when he bulldozed everything in sight out of his way as he managed to retain possession late on against all the odds.

[paul_oshea]

I know Westwood is no Lev Yashin but he was more than just making routine saves out there, unless the standard is "routine first class goalkeeping".

I didn't think the Brighton lad scuffed that low free kick shot, he aimed into the corner, Westwood anticipated well, got down ahead of time, got a strong arm behind the ball and secured possession under pressure from a lurking Brighton player. That's first class goalkeeping, not just routine.
A routine save would be to parry the ball away and if he's lucky out of danger.
For the last save, routine would be to come way of his line and the ball struck straight at him, he would have been applauded for "making his body big" .)
As it was, he had to dive to his right, a fractions early instinctive save to firmly block a bullet with both his arms.

I've not watched it and I've no idea what the save was like, but I agree with you :D

I don't need to have seen the video to know that it was obviously more than just a routine save.

[Charlie Darwin]

name these goals, and provide proof that Westwood would have saved them
Considering Randolph has only conceded six goals for Ireland I'd say it's more or less all of them.

[tetsujin1979]

Considering Randolph has only conceded six goals for Ireland I'd say it's more or less all of them.
I had thought it was any goal he conceded since his debut, club or international

[Charlie Darwin]

Ah, maybe.

[seanfhear]

I wonder how long it will take Dumbfy to discover how good of form Westwood is in if Randolph /Given makes a mistake:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[DeLorean]

Brilliant effort from Derby tonight, some contrast to Saturday. Guts and bottle in abundance but unfortunately just left themselves with too much to do. They can't have any complaints after the shambles at the weekend but some pride restored at least.

Bradley Johnson and Ince were dropped for Hendrick and Weimann and the changes really worked a treat. Hendrick actually played the holding midfield role, allowing Hughes to motor further forward. Those two and Johnny Russell were the pick of the bunch I thought, lovely intricate passing movements all night. It was a really mature performance from Hendrick and he showed no signs of not having played a proper match for a few weeks. He was far more suited to the role than Hughes was on Saturday, who was a little bit lightweight for the position.

Christie was instrumental in Derby's opening goal, a powerful run down the right before whipping in a decent cross that Martin kept alive and Russell bundled in at the second attempt. Keogh had an easy enough night, no major pressure applied by Hull for the majority of the game but he carried the ball out of defence well.

Meyler came on for Hull and used his experience to slow down the game, buying a free kick or two and generally adding a bit of composure to their play.

[Stuttgart88]

Ideal scenario reHendrick, in short term at least. Sharp and effective, and available for Ireland from right now.