Cork "psyche"

[rebel yell]

I think there may be something in the 'Cork Psyche' which means we are afraid to be winners. OK we won the league one year after a bizarre play-off series ( without wishing to open up that old chestnut) but when have we dominated anytime in our history. We just seem to flatter to deceive until being cruelly found out like V bohs yesterday. If we win the league cup this year, that's it for a decade without any doubt. We'll probably be 5th in the league and miss out on the intertoto this season. I hate the GAA but Cork gaa football teams often underachieve as i understand it. And Gunther should only carry the can- with the board- for 2 of those 18 years so we just can't blame him. Are we
the Newcastle- or Kevin Keegan- of Irish football always destined
to fall short? I'm always thinking this is going to be our year despite the best efforts of the board. Contrast our record to Shels, Pats and we're well behind. Perhaps they've a winning mentality and we don't.......
:mad:
20/01/2002 League championship RIP.

[Éanna]

yeah, it seems we're the bridesmaids of irish football. almost every crunch game, we end up losing. even the UCD game and the bohs game at the cross over the last month- if we'd won those, we'd be looking good.

[Jim Smith]

where City is concerned. The bottom line is that Cork City have been falling behind for seasons and its finally catching up with us. City have been winging it since about the last two Davie B seasons and the more 'professional' sides are finally begining to pull away. It often takes a season or two of full time training to really reap the rewards and I think that is what we have been seeing this season. A few new 'finds' a season just won't be enough to keep up. We also seem to be short of leadership ON the pitch. Who is there to role up their sleeves when things are going against us?

[Troy.McClure]

Originally posted by rebel yell
Contrast our record to Shels, Pats and we're well behind. Perhaps they've a winning mentality and we don't.......
:mad:
20/01/2002 League championship RIP.

Actually at the start of last season there was a league table of the history of the Premier division printed in the programme. Pats were #1 with City in 2nd place (deja vu). Shels were a good bit down the list as they were religated some years ago(!)

In the silverware section though, Id say that we are down there with Bray! :(

Everything else you say is correct though :(

[pete]

I think you've got something there Jim.

[begin rant/

Cork City has potential to be THE biggest club in the country & i've been living in dublin for almost 2 1/2 years too. Unfortunately a lot of what you here in the media from the club sounds like an inferiority complex with the "big" dublin clubs always going to be ahead of us. The reason they're ahead is sure 'n simply professional organisation as they have to fight for fans.

The clubs is churning out great young players unlike any other club in the county. You only have to look at the ex-ccfc players playing abroad to see this.

Possibly because Cork is a little isolated in the south of the country the club are able to hang onto young players easier than dublin clubs who compete amoung each other for talent. Dublin has some very strong junior teams that are ahead of the eL clubs in attracting under age players, Cork City don't really have this problem.

As the GAA have discovered dublin may have a very large population but theres a huge amount of blow ins like myself who have allegences to clubs outside the pale. Including both eL divisions dublin has 6 clubs without even mentioning the other pale clubs. CCFC have the whole city & media exposure to themselves.

Cork City is intent to follow but never lead.

[/end rant]

[A face]

It is blatantly obvious that City should be doing better, but i think (And this is not getting in a sneaky dig at the board) It has to come from the top, to get the ball rolling. Having said that the IS work being done to get us closer to it, such as the youths and under 21's. The Training programs and courses that some of the players and Liam are involved in. They (the club) tried already to bring in more pro's and it didn't work (Well everything was going to pot at the time so i wouldn't put it down to that)
The point i am making is that there seems to be more of a structure in place now to bring on the pro's and hopefully a good training system/regime to get the best out of them.

What do you all think ??

[Éanna]

agree with all of that. city have to take things by the scruff of the neck- it does require a leap of faith to go professional, but I think it would work out. city have to lead for once.

[pete]

You can professional & not fulltime of which the club is neither.

I don't think the club could go fulltime overnight but they will have huge difficulties achieving on gate receipts alone but there is scope for increasing the prices. I don't think the club necessarily needs to bring in fulltimers but surely they could start offering a career to those ypoung players that would like to play football fulltime?

IMO its very hard to be fulltime on the pitch while part-time off the pitch. Whilst accepting the club has to ensure its financial survival surely the appointment of fulltime admin/commercial people would pay for itself in increased revenue? If Noelle walked out tomorrow whow would run the club? Don't know she would want but maybe she should be appointed in fulltime paid admin/commercial role?

[A face]

They do have an office now with an address .... am i right ??, beside the club shop (even though it looks pretty bare inside i.e Not much work being done, there is nothing on the walls or table. Strange for an office.)

[Éanna]

It's a pity Greg Cantillon couldn't have been kept on because his appointment was a very positive development. Even if the club isn't going to go full-time, they could at least go professional, i.e. behave professionally.

[Snatch]

While it is true that City seem to lose a lot of the big games I don't think it is becauce of some 'losing psyche'. It's simply because we don't have a good enough team to consistantly win the gig matches. I've been of the opinion that City have been punching above their weight all season and are fortunate to be involved in big games at all.

As for this on going debate about professionalising and revolutionising the club, we must remember how hard it is to break out of this vicious circle. How can we expect the board to instantly turn things around when they are working on funds from roughly eighteen hundred supporters every two weeks.

This is probably a very unpopular thing to say on the forum but if somebody does the sums of trying to pay coaches, players and commercial managers from that income it certainly is not an easy task.

I know there are some obvious things like promoting the club better but it is still a momentous task to convert our die hard foeign football supporting legions. :(

[Citygirl]

Does anyone know which players are on professional/full-time contracts with the club at the moment?

[rebel yell]

Snatch, I was not just talking about this season. I'm talking about
our whole history. The Groundhog Day feeling of coming up short on every big occasion. A further point to consider is what would happen if we were relegated any season? I'd bet this board would throw in the towel quickly and we'd go bust. Remember we
all probably fall into the trap of thinking City are too big to go down. What also beggars belief is that 'some players weren't really up for it against Bohs'. Perhaps they don't share the fans' passions or ambitions. The board certainly don't. It seems to me that the board think an 'idea' is something you show to get you
into a Cork Niteclub. :mad:

[James]

Originally posted by Snatch

How can we expect the board to instantly turn things around when they are working on funds from roughly eighteen hundred supporters every two weeks.


but then how come da $heliban can go fully pro, with only getting a few hundred turning up no matter how big or important the game, at least when we have been doing well the crowd swells to 5/6 K

so how do $hels manage with only a fraction of the crowds we get...

and why the hell cant our board do it

[A face]

Business, they are in there for everything, The Marney affair to Dream team, they are very active, City are not.

Lads ..... what can we the supporters do to change to attitude of the board, and seriously ... something that would work, not just making noise.

[Troy.McClure]

Also the Dublin teams have far fewer travel expences than City. It costs a few hundred pounds/euro to rent a bus for a day. The Dublin players can make their own way to 5 away grounds and seeing that they would play around 8 away Dublin/Bray games per season thats a coulpe of thousand Euro they save for nothing + overnight expences for these games. We also give stick to $hels (ie by puting a $ instead of a S) for their money hunting habits, but we all know that they are right to do it. Also they blow their own trumpets so much it makes them more attractive for sponcers ("any publicity is good publicity").

[Éanna]

yeah that's a fair argument, but the flip side of it is that we get MUCH bigger crowds than $hel$.

[A face]

The club should aim for 10,000 up crowds a home games, that is a very realistic target. And the supporters club should get at least 5% of that crowd at meetings

[Éanna]

yeah, that should be a realistic target. i think 5,000 as a minimum attendance for every home game should be an immediate target, with 10,000 as a medium-term target.

[Troy.McClure]

Originally posted by Éanna
yeah that's a fair argument, but the flip side of it is that we get MUCH bigger crowds than $hel$.

Ya but the flip side of that again is that the Dublin clubs (except the mighty UCD) charge more than City and dont garentee a student price. I was charged €10 into the Bohz City match recently but got in for €5 when they played Derry. Its happened to me with the other teams aswel. :mad:

[pete]

Sorry but 10k average crowds is a fantasy figure.

Its all about your core support that you can rely apon week in week out. These are the people who go to the club shop, bar etc...

Dublin clubs tend to have their own identity & have shrong enough core bunches of supporters. For example $hel$ will generally get the same home support for most games but also rely a lot on neutrals & away supporters for a lot of their finances.

The Cork City core support is fairly pathetic in a city of its size (i'd guess have access to about 200k+ people) & have fostered no real club community. Maybe its all bcause no club bar/meeting room of its own but i don't think thats all it is.

City have a good disadvantages over dublin teams but also have a lot of advantages.

[Éanna]

10k is fantasy at the moment, but 5k isn't. I'm suggesting setting these two as goals.

[rebel yell]

Well 103FM said there was a Huge crowd at the Bohs game. I think it was estimated at 3,000 somewhere. If that figure is correct, it means either 106 FM have a poor idea of Huge or in EL terms that was considered quite big by 106FM's standards. If that's all we can get for the champions in a crunch match V a team
with reasonable away support, then I'd say a core of 2000 would be doing well.

[Éanna]

I'd say there were more than 3,000 at the Bohs game. I ould've said 4 at least.