Liam Miller and United

[BobbySands]

Must say, I feel sorry for him. A year ago he was on the periphery of the Celtic team and geting a few high profile games (a la Mc Geady). This year ? On the outer fringes of the Utd second team and through bad luck and Fergusons arrogance probably heading the way of Stephen McPhail.

[Éanna]

how did he expect to walk from the celtic team into the Man Utd team? He had a couple of good games in europe, and played ok in the SPL, but lets face it, impressing at celtic means being able to control a ball! He was never going to walk into the Man Utd team- no chance. He has yet to prove ANY of the hype surrounding him

[Closed Account 2]

It was clearly the wrong move for him, as many suggested it would be at the time. At best he's wasted a year or more of his career barely making the bench, at worst his set for a spiral of mediocrity (hard to think of a Man Utd reject who has genuinely become a top class player since David Platt)... maybe Savage but its hard to say he's top class. If Miller doesnt leave soon he could end up like other failures from that club Greening, Wallwork, or that Serbian-Swedish player who now seems set to warm the bench for Rangers (Djordic was it?)... doesnt bode well for his Irish team prospects... a club like Villa, Charlton, even Man City would have been better.

[Superhoops]

F*** Miller. Serves him right for listening to the wrong advice
Nothing to do with wrong advice. He was overhyped at Celtic, mainly by their fans. He just is not good enough for top flight football, just another ordinary player.

[Plastic Paddy]

but lets face it, impressing at celtic means being able to control a ball!

Very good Éanna. Did you write that one yourself? :rolleyes:

**** Miller. Serves him right for listening to the wrong advice. He's still being handsomely paid for doing nothing.

:ball: PP

[the 12 th man]

Nothing to do with wrong advice. He was overhyped at Celtic, mainly by their fans. He just is not good enough for top flight football, just another ordinary player.


leaving out personalities and club loyalties:
personally i think he is good enough.
i think he is good on the ball and has enough ability too be more involved at utd. :)

[Plastic Paddy]

Nothing to do with wrong advice. He was overhyped at Celtic, mainly by their fans. He just is not good enough for top flight football, just another ordinary player.

I don't think that we hyped him in the way you suggest tbh. Like most fans starved of signings, we were looking anywhere for our next saviour, so to speak. Miller came along at what we thought was the right time, and just when we felt he was settling in the Celtic first team, he upped-and-offed without so much of a by-your-leave (but after a couple of interviews in which he and his mother (ffs!) stated plainly that Celtic was his boyhood club and he was going nowhere. No wonder the fans felt cheated by him).

Now in Aiden McGeady we have a player worthy of the hype, the supporters are fairly reticent when it comes to building him up. But then we're all pretty jaundiced of late at Celtic. This is the worst Rangers side in living memory and we're only just marginally better than them. But I digress.

Miller took a risk, and so far it hasn't worked in footballing terms. For Ireland's sake, I hope it does. For Miller's sake, well, I've put my views on this elsewhere...

:ball: PP

[Plastic Paddy]

Spot on as ever, Mister Davros. :D

Happy New Year, btw. Will you be watching the match today?

:D PP

[Superhoops]

You clearly know nothing about Celtic fans;'over-hyped'is the not the apposite adjective......for Mr.Miller!(
Dav, I don't agree that I know nothing about Celtic fans. What I don't know anything about is their psyche!

However regarding Miller and being hyped by those same fans, I had seen Miller play a few times for Ireland U-21 (I seem to remember he was loaned out to a Danish club on one of these occasions, I may be wrong). He looked a decent enough player, as did others like Sean Thronton for example, but there was no indication that he was outstanding.

It was only when he played in the CL games of 2003/2004? that Celtic fans raved about his performances. I never saw any of these games but several Celtic fans that I know were of the opinion that Miler was 'the business' and would be 'a natural successor to RMK in the Ireland set-up'. I am sure this was the view among many Celtic supporters and others who had seen him play in these games. This was before there was any mention of him going to MU. When he announced he was going to MU, these same Celtic fans probably understandably, changed their tune. MU fans quickly latched on to the 'next RMK' hype.

As regards Miller playing for Ireland, I don't care what club he plays for, I am only interested that he is good enough. From what I have seen so far he is light years away from being 'the business' or 'a natural successor to RMK in the Ireland set-up' (Celtic fans descriptions, not mine!). He will be 24 next month, hardly ancient, but you would expect him by now to have progressed a lot further than he has. Getting taken off by MU against Exeter is hardly the form of an emerging international player!

IMHO, over hyped is an apposite adjective to describe when he was at Celtic and currently is not good enough as a first choice for Ireland's midfield. I hope that changes and he makes the breakthrough, but in respect of our WCQ campaign, time is running out for him and I have seen nothing to suggest he will come through. I wonder if anyone else has?

[eirebhoy]

Miller was overhyped an awful lot more from the people in the game (coaches, players, ex-players) then he was by the Celtic fans. Everyone that coached him was raving about him including the ex-Celtic player (I think it was player) that managed him on loan.

[brine3]

hard to think of a Man Utd reject who has genuinely become a top class player since David Platt

Karel Poborsky wasn't half bad at Euro 2004.

Miller's time will come. Scholes, Giggs and Keane will be fading soon. That's three open spots in the Man Utd midfield.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Potential?

Miller is not far off being 25 when is he ever going to fulfill this potential?
Should have stayed at Celtic he'd be a first team regular this season.

[Éanna]

Very good Éanna. Did you write that one yourself? :rolleyes:
I'm deadly serious. Half of the players at Celtic have no technical ability whatsoever- take petrov and thompson out of the midfield and the rest of them can hardly pass the ball. Just stating fact, not having a go. My point was, its easier to look good at celtic when you're surrounded by very average players, than it is at a better team like man Utd for example

[Éanna]

Potential?

Miller is not far off being 25 when is he ever going to fulfill this potential?

spot on. there's been so much talk and so little action.......

[M@ttitude]

Yeah but he'd still be at Celtic, he done the right thing by taking a risk.. Its the only way to move up and fair play to him for having the guts to jump in at the deep end, he's a good player, different to what UTD are used to but the team will learn to adapt to his style, thats why Ferguson bought him, heres a quote from fergie when he bought him "I was very impressed with several points in his game," said Fergie. "I was impressed with his ability to see the space in front of him. His running off the ball was superb, and I thought here was a player who was different from what we have at United. Give it time folks and try support a player who is trying to break into one of the biggest clubs in the world..

[eirebhoy]

I'm deadly serious. Half of the players at Celtic have no technical ability whatsoever- take petrov and thompson out of the midfield and the rest of them can hardly pass the ball. Just stating fact, not having a go. My point was, its easier to look good at celtic when you're surrounded by very average players, than it is at a better team like man Utd for example
You do realise that Celtic's first choice midfield is McGeady-Thompson-Lennon-Petrov? You must have forgotten McGeady as he's our most valuable player by far IMO. Lennon is a holding midfielder and does his job well, although people expect him to be something he's not therefore have higher standard's for him. Juninho hasn't started since October. Hartson is the best passer of the ball with his head in Britain IMO. He also is superb at holding it up and is actually a very good passer. The defence isn't very strong but what can you do with Quinn as chairman?

[Éanna]

hartson is an excellent player, as is sutton- both very underrated and wasted on the SPL IMO. I thought McGeady was a striker? Anyways, Lennon- he might be a holding midfielder, but he still should be able to pass a ball properly

[Plastic Paddy]

I'm deadly serious. Half of the players at Celtic have no technical ability whatsoever- take petrov and thompson out of the midfield and the rest of them can hardly pass the ball. Just stating fact, not having a go. My point was, its easier to look good at celtic when you're surrounded by very average players, than it is at a better team like man Utd for example

Having watched the game - properly - this afternoon, your assessment wasn't too removed from the fact. We were awful, end of. :(

:mad: PP

[eirebhoy]

No, McGeady is a midfielder. Supposedly at his best when given a free role behind the front 2 but MON plays him on the left wing mostly.

[brine3]

Stick the skillful players out on the wing. Typical MON attitude really. He's got Juninho in his squad but he sticks him out on the wing too. If he had any clue he'd build his midfield around Juninho.

Sometimes I wonder if MON is a one trick pony when it comes to tactics. He's still playing the same 3-5-2 he was playing at Leicester City. He's probably the best motivator and man manager in the game, but when it comes to tactics he's not the greatest.

[Donal81]

I never saw Miller play for Celtic and have seen him a couple of times for Ireland and Man Utd. He's probably the quietest player I've come across, it's like he's afraid to make himself heard, which just isn't good enough. I don't wish to have an unfair go at him as I haven't seen him play enough. What was it that got everyone raving about him in the first place? Man Utd is normally an ideal place for a young player to go to, what happened?

[Slash/ED]

as would most SPL players,FFS;As ever,Get a Reality check......... :(

Like Juan Sara you mean? :)

[Plastic Paddy]

Like Juan Sara you mean? :)

Never mind Juan Sara, I think Sara Lee would cut it in the eL. :p ;)


Stick the skillful players out on the wing. Typical MON attitude really. He's got Juninho in his squad but he sticks him out on the wing too. If he had any clue he'd build his midfield around Juninho.

To be fair, he doesn't even play him out there. I thought today would have been the ideal day for the wee one to prove himself, but MON thought that Alan Thompson and Jackie MacNamara were a better option. He got lucky. :rolleyes:

:ball: PP

[Superhoops]

I never saw Miller play for Celtic......What was it that got everyone raving about him in the first place?
As I posted previously, it was his performances in the CL games of 2004/04 that started the raving (whether it was by Celtic fans, ex-pros, managers or the press is immaterial). Like you I never saw him playing these or any games for Celtic, so could only go by what was being said and written.

I have only seen him since on the occasions he has played for Ireland, 5 starts and 2 as sub. In his full games, he was ordinary against Poland, had a decent game against Romania (but not worth the MOM award), he was woeful against Nigeria (but so were the rest of them), he was ordinary against Bulgaria and again against Croatia where the best thing he did was head a ball off the line just after half-time. In the games he came on, 20 minutes against Czech Republic, his debut, and after about an hour against Faroes, he could hardly be described as making an impression.

He did not feature in any of the three 'major' games, away to Holland, Switzerland and France, so we have not had the chance to see if he can do it on the big stage.

Can he do it? I am not convinced, yet! I hope I am wrong.

[eirebhoy]

He's still playing the same 3-5-2 he was playing at Leicester City.
He hasn't been using the 3-5-2 since the end of the season bar a couple of times he was forced to.

[Plastic Paddy]

As I posted previously, it was his performances in the CL games of 2004/04 that started the raving (whether it was by Celtic fans, ex-pros, managers or the press is immaterial).

That's a less-than-subtle change of direction you're making. Where's the apology to Celtic fans then? ;)


Can he do it? I am not convinced, yet! I hope I am wrong.

Likewise, although if he continues to fall flat on his arse career-wise, I'll find it hard to sympathise.

:) PP

[McCanada]

I think Donal81 hit the spot with Miller...He just seems afraid to show what he's got, from what little I've seen of him. A lack of confidence? He seems to show a lot of good touches and movement in midfield, but seems to suffer from a lack of concentration as well? I don't know...

I always laugh when people see him as a Roy Keane type...He's the same size, from the same place, but that's it...He lacks Keane's ability to control and take over a game, and in no way comes close to his physical attributes, except perhaps for his engine...Has Miller or anyone else the size of Keane (height and weight) been able to physically dominate midfield as Roy has? Few are as good in the air at Roy's size too, in my opinion....Those are the main attributes that Roy has, along with his old ability to run like mad for 90 minutes, and I don't think Miller on his best day is has all of this...He's more a creative type, no? Having said all that, he still HAS to be better than Darren Fletcher!

[Superhoops]

That's a less-than-subtle change of direction you're making. Where's the apology to Celtic fans then?
No change of direction subtle or otherwise so I don't think any apology is required. Eirebhoy pointed that Miller was overhyped by people other than Celtic fans, I have no reason to doubt him and hence the inclusion of these others.

The point I was making earlier was that all the hype I ever heard about Miller was from people I know who are Celtic fans. No doubt they based their views on what they had seen. As it transpires, Celtic fans went cold on Miller, not because he did not live up to the expectations of how good a player he was or would become but simply because he turned his back on Celtic and moved to MU.

As I posted earlier, I could not care less what club he pays for as long as he can do the business for us. I would have been quite happy if he had lived up to the hype regardless of who hyped him up. So far, he has been disappointing playing for Ireland.

[Pat O' Banton]

My mind may be playing tricks on me but I think his game is a lot more resricted at ManUre. At Celtic he would pick the ball up deep and move forward with it, lay it off and he would also make good runs into the box ala his goal against Lyon, from what I seen of him playing for ManUre (against Chelsea and Norwich early on int he season) he is simply playing as a kind of link up midfielder to pick the ball up and move it on, this defo makes him look lessof a player than at Parkhead.
Leaving aside the disappointment of his move (why do any of us ever listen to players who say that their dream is to play for Club Y as they have supported them all their life) I felt that it was badly timed, as he hadn't established himself in the SPL never mind moving to a tougher league, he needed at least another season at Celtic before going south. Potential definately there but playing reserve team football or bench warming at Old Trafford will mean that his career stagnates.

[Macy]

Celtic fans were raving about him when he had those good games in the Champions League, I'm sure you'd find threads on foot if you looked back.

Irish United fans thought he was a great signing as he was going to be the new Keano, not convinced the Manc's thought so.

United would never have signed him if he wasn't available for free.

Celtic didn't tie him down to a long contract before he made those great appearances - so harsh to blame him for taking the opportunity

People forget how old Miller actually is - talk of potential, give him a run in the team, etc etc. He'd want to produce soon as he's getting towards his "prime"

Whatever about when he signed, he's beginning to lose the OT crowd - just by simply not being up to it. I can think of 3 reserve teams put out in Cups this season where he's failed to stand out despite being one of the senior players, being subbed in two as far as I recall (Exeter on Saturday, and I think he was subbed in the last of the group games in Europe). Lets face it, if you're not standing out in a team that includes Richardson and Bellion you're in trouble.

[Plastic Paddy]

No change of direction subtle or otherwise so I don't think any apology is required. Eirebhoy pointed that Miller was overhyped by people other than Celtic fans, I have no reason to doubt him and hence the inclusion of these others.

Of course there's not. I'm only pulling your leg. :)


Leaving aside the disappointment of his move (why do any of us ever listen to players who say that their dream is to play for Club Y as they have supported them all their life) I felt that it was badly timed, as he hadn't established himself in the SPL never mind moving to a tougher league, he needed at least another season at Celtic before going south. Potential definately there but playing reserve team football or bench warming at Old Trafford will mean that his career stagnates.

God, you're so bloody reasonable, Pat. Why can't you be bitter and twisted like me regarding Miller? :p

:D PP

[AmenToThat]

I have mixed emotions regarding Miller
As a Celtic fan I hate the little ****er but Im also an Ireland supporter so part of me wants him to do well because it will be of benefit to the national team
Bottom line is though that for alot of his time at Celtic fc he was injured and was always assured of getting his chance when he got fit (which he was).
He took it and as soon as Man U came sniffing around him he was off!

Yes celtic definitally were wrong to let him go into the final year of his contract but as was stated he was injured alot of the time.
He was wanted by Celtic, adored by the fans and was to be given the biggest contract of any young player in the history of Scottish football (not far behind what Man U offered).

The irony is his departure has open the door for McGeady who if he fulfills his full potential will be ten times the player Miller ever will be..........
Infact hes already better in my opinion so as far as Im concerned Miller can sit in the stands in Old Trafford for the next four years like the traitorous little ****e he is.

[Stuttgart88]

I have mixed emotions regarding Miller
As a Celtic fan I hate the little ****er but Im also an Ireland supporter so part of me wants him to do well because it will be of benefit to the national team

Why only part of you? Haven't you got your priorities mixed up?

I was disappointed he left CP because I'm a Celtic fan and because I felt it was the wrong move at the wrong time for him, and for the Irish team.

But I'll always be rooting for the guy and I hope he does well for himself.

[Donal81]

I have mixed emotions regarding Miller
As a Celtic fan I hate the little ****er but Im also an Ireland supporter so part of me wants him to do well because it will be of benefit to the national team
Bottom line is though that for alot of his time at Celtic fc he was injured and was always assured of getting his chance when he got fit (which he was).
He took it and as soon as Man U came sniffing around him he was off!

Yes celtic definitally were wrong to let him go into the final year of his contract but as was stated he was injured alot of the time.
He was wanted by Celtic, adored by the fans and was to be given the biggest contract of any young player in the history of Scottish football (not far behind what Man U offered).

The irony is his departure has open the door for McGeady who if he fulfills his full potential will be ten times the player Miller ever will be..........
Infact hes already better in my opinion so as far as Im concerned Miller can sit in the stands in Old Trafford for the next four years like the traitorous little ****e he is.

You're playing for a mediocre team in a brutal league. The biggest club in the world asks you to move and play for them. I assume you'd turn it down, then?

[Plastic Paddy]

Celtic are hardly mediocre. Had it escaped your notice that the club are SPL champions? And as for the five points that an admittedly past-its-best side won in this season's Champions League? Mediocrity exemplified. :rolleyes:

In any case Donal, you're expecting us - as football fans - to be too reasonable in this context. Miller crossed the line when he claimed when interviewed on more than one occasion that he was a fan of Celtic. If he was, he'd not have left the moment ManUre came sniffing. He devalued what it means to be a Celtic supporter. And that's why we're still sore about his departure.

:ball: PP

[Stuttgart88]

I don't know. It happens in all walks of life. Company A offers you a pay rise to leave Company B so you go.

OK, it's not quite the same in football where you're financially secure for life before you're 25 but the broad principle applies. Maybe he wanted to test himself on what is undoubtedly a bigger stage.

I said at the time that I felt he was wrong to leave & he must have been badly advised. My viewpoint was that of an Irish fan - I wanted to see him develop by playing more football. As I just said in the Andy Reid thread, the Premiership is not the be-all and end-all. Celtic is undoubtedly a big enough club and high enough standard of football for an Irish international. In fact I'd be very happy if Reid was to join Celtic for example.

But he had only just got into Celtic's first team. Two excellent CL performances and a few very accomplished performances in the SPL was all he had done. I saw him against Fulham pre-season 2003 and he looked real quality. But he was totally pants against Villereal. He's also injury prone and anyone could have seen he'd struggle to hold down a place at MUFC. Another full season at CP would have been much better for him. He's 24(?) and has played how many first team games ever?

[drummerboy]

You can't blame Miller for trying to better himself. Celtic diddered over offering him a new contract. Be honest, they took him for granted. This loyalty thing amazes me. Don't forget pro footballers are hired hands. Their career is short. When a new manager arrives they can be out the door, ask Andy O'Brien. So if somebody comes along and offers him more money to play for a bigger club, you can't blame them. Football is an industry, people forget about all the kids that don't make it and are discarded after 3 or 4 years.

[wws]

couple of things -ALL players leave for the biggest club - there is no such thing as loyalty in football if the player has any self regard or wish for self improvement (on every level footballing and financial) - the only "loyal" players are those not required by bigger clubs or simply too chicken to try their luck in a bigger pond

Manchester United is a better gig for Miller so it was a no brainer move.

Thats the move dealt with.

As for Miller himself - theres only two possibilities - he's lost his form since the move - or b) he was always no good


it looks increasingly like he was no good....

[Donal81]

Celtic are hardly mediocre. Had it escaped your notice that the club are SPL champions? And as for the five points that an admittedly past-its-best side won in this season's Champions League? Mediocrity exemplified. :rolleyes:

In any case Donal, you're expecting us - as football fans - to be too reasonable in this context. Miller crossed the line when he claimed when interviewed on more than one occasion that he was a fan of Celtic. If he was, he'd not have left the moment ManUre came sniffing. He devalued what it means to be a Celtic supporter. And that's why we're still sore about his departure.

:ball: PP

He can easily be a fan of Celtic while playing for Man Utd. I don't think I'm expecting too much reason here - a player gets offered a better deal with a much better club in a much better league: why the hell should he stay? Football clubs toss away footballers they don't need but footballers are expected to show loyalty that they know won't be repayed. I know following football doesn't equate with a reasonable attitude but come on, the chap had a chance to play for Man Utd and get out of that poxy league. I appreciate that a Celtic fan might miss him but to castigate him for leaving? Come on...

[Condex]

I've seen lots of small/light players who could look after themselves
eg Dennis Wise

but Miller is getting sand kicked in his face in every match I see him play and the number of games is getting fewer.

[gspain]

Liam Miller was on £800 pw at Celtic. Man Utd offered him £25,000 pw Celtic had stalled on a new contract even when Alex Ferguson was seen at a champions league game at Celtic Park. The eventual offer of £11,000 per week was decent enough but too little too late.

Why should a Cork lad show any more loyalty to one British club over another?

It appears Celtic learned their lesson and tied Aiden McGeady down straight away. Seems like a very smart move.

Now of much more concern is his form this season. He was not picked for a central midfield 3 last night of Fletcher, Djemba Djemba and Fortune. Enough said. I think Liam Miller is a very good player but he must be short of confidence now. Man Utd was a great move financially but a year of first team football would have been much better.

[Condex]

Agree that he is technically good, but he does not have the time on the ball he seems to think he has, also he hasn't the strnegth to shield the ball properly.

He might be better off moving to the continent where the football is less robust.

[Superhoops]

.....He needs an arm round the shoulders and a loan move somewhere.....
MON and Celtic!

[AmenToThat]

You're playing for a mediocre team in a brutal league. The biggest club in the world asks you to move and play for them. I assume you'd turn it down, then?

The guy was a hero to the fans getting regular football and getting to play the cream of European football till christmas each year (Barcelona and AC this year).
Wheres he at now?
Maybe getting a game when Ferguson plays his 'reserves' and afraid of his own shadow.
Yep great move alright.
:rolleyes:

[Donal81]

The guy was a hero to the fans getting regular football and getting to play the cream of European football till christmas each year (Barcelona and AC this year).
Wheres he at now?
Maybe getting a game when Ferguson plays his 'reserves' and afraid of his own shadow.
Yep great move alright.
:rolleyes:

What are you talking about? Did I say it had been a fabulous move for him and everything was rosy? No I didn't so I don't see what you're getting at here. I just said that it's easy to understand why he moved. :confused:

[drummerboy]

I think the gulf between the Premiership and the SPL is huge. Barry Ferguson was Captain of Rangers and Scotland. He was touted as the best midfielder in the SPL. He went to Blackburn and what happened. SFA. Even though he had Souness there to shield him he has been a huge flop and wants to return home. It says it all really.

[livehead1]

barry ferguson a flop? have you seen him recently for blackburn, he's been outstanding. He has been a practical ever present and is the captain of a premiership club, he's a leader!

n im a celtic fan!!!

[eirebhoy]

In fairness Davros, I doubt very much that Gibbons even seen the Exeter match. People are looking too much into him being subbed off first in that match. He made the bench against Liverpool ahead of the likes of Djemba and Kleberson.

[Plastic Paddy]

barry ferguson a flop? have you seen him recently for blackburn, he's been outstanding. He has been a practical ever present and is the captain of a premiership club, he's a leader!

n im a celtic fan!!!

Seconded. It weould be a backward step for him to return to the SPL, and no mistake. He should be looking at bigger Premiership clubs in the future, not a return to the SPL. Unless it's with Celtic, his wife's team. :eek: ;) :D

Oh, and FWIW, I'd have him at CP like a shot.

:ball: PP

[AmenToThat]

barry ferguson a flop? have you seen him recently for blackburn, he's been outstanding. He has been a practical ever present and is the captain of a premiership club, he's a leader!

n im a celtic fan!!!

Agreed from the match reports Iv read recently regarding Blackburn hes been pretty much the driving force and the star player of the team!
So as a Cetlic fan I hope he stays south of the boarder :D