Has Ireland ever been robbed?

[blobbyblob]

Looking at the ROy Carroll saga got me thinking - Has Ireland ever been robbed by a refereeing decision that could have been overturned by a video referee.

The only one that springs to mind for myself was for linekers goal against us in WC90. We should have had a throw 10 seconds proir to the ball being played in for Salt n Lineker....

Any more?

[monutdfc]

When Holland scored their winner against us in Euro '88 there was a player in an offside position. Back then the interpretation of "interfering with play" was different and many officials would not have allowed the goal. (However, it did go straight in and it would have been a very unfair decision to rule it out.)

[Aldini98]

1981, Belgium 1 Ireland 0. Ref disallowed perfect Stapleton goal and Belgians scored from a free after Gerets dived. Cost us a place in Spain '82.

You could hardly get more ****ed over by a ref. than we did.

HERE HERE !!!

[Hibs4Ever]

I remember that Dutch goal in '88 alright. Horrible. And John Aldridge's goal away to Spain when he was NEVER offside would have won us the match instead of 0-0

[green army]

AFAIK away to belgium in 81
euro 88 against holland definate offside
italia 90 should have been ireland throw.
WCQ v spain in seville??? john aldridge scored ruled offside but was onside.

[green army]

(However, it did go straight in and it would have been a very unfair decision to rule it out.)

anybody who is offside in the 6 yard box should be ruled offside. (he was pretty close top the 6 yard box. thats in the line of sight of the keeper.)

[razor]

Belgium in 97 just before they scored they're 2nd goal, i think it was a throw we should have had and it was given to them and they scored as a result.

[Éanna]

Belgium in 97 just before they scored they're 2nd goal, i think it was a throw we should have had and it was given to them and they scored as a result.
if I remember correctly, the refereeing performance in that game was abysmal

[Aldini98]

Belgium in 97 just before they scored they're 2nd goal, i think it was a throw we should have had and it was given to them and they scored as a result.

We really should hate Belgium.

Thank olivera ******, hated him, big poxy ear ring, not good enough to play for Brazil so I'll declare for Belgium.

[lopez]

Loads of them. Belgium the worst by far. Holland 88 perhaps forgivable (Van Basten was trying to get on-side) but Seville in 92 also bad, although did not cost us a place nor the game as in 82. Paris six months before Belgium 81 was also memorable (Robinson goal), Bulgaria in 1977 (apparently the ref was spotted coming out of his hotel room the night before the game being held up by two scantily clad, and very drunk, 'chambermaids'). Also - for a special mention - US Cup 92 and 96 against Italy and Mexico, refereed by an Italian-American and Cuban-American respectively.

[blobbyblob]

Aldo in Spain was a sickner alright. Defo onside.

[pineapple stu]

The only one that springs to mind for myself was for linekers goal against us in WC90. We should have had a throw 10 seconds proir to the ball being played in for Salt n Lineker....

Was that out of play? Never thought so, just remember Sheedy (?) stopping playing for a split second with his hand raised. Stupid.

Not a match we cared about, but the game against Mexico in the '96 US Cup deserves a mention - ref a Spanish-speaking American (or Puerto Rican or something) chatting to all the Mexican players before the game, awarding an apparently dodgy penalty and sending Liam Daish off for "time-wasting" and sending Mick McCarthy off for throwing the ball away...

Can't beat that Belgian game though - there was an article posted here a while back which had an interview with the ref about the game, and he was quite clearly trying to weasel out of admitting that he was bribed and threw the game.

On the plus side, though - anyone remember the second goal against Hungary in 1989 in Lansdowne? Houghton clearly pushing the defender in the back and looking around in shock when no free was given before crossing for Cascarino to score. Swings and roundabouts! :p (Bar the bribery, of course... :mad: )

[Lionel Ritchie]

....or Alan Mcloughlin being offside for our equaliser against England in Italy.

[lopez]

On the plus side, though - anyone remember the second goal against Hungary in 1989 in Lansdowne? Houghton clearly pushing the defender in the back and looking around in shock when no free was given before crossing for Cascarino to score. Swings and roundabouts! :p (Bar the bribery, of course... :mad: )Or the Turkey game in 1990. 5-0. The ref was, I think, Swedish. Apparently he was seen coming out of his hotel bedroom being propped up by two very drunk 'chambermaids'. Oh, I've already done that one. Anyway, he get's my vote for the bloke I'd like to ref every Ireland game.

[fergalr]

I think these all fall into three broad categories.

1. The blatent ones (with a strong hint of corruption)
- Belgium 81
- Bulgaria 77

2. The obviously mistaken decisions - eg
- Aldo's goal in Spain

3. The debatable decisions - eg
- throw-in v England 90
- offside v Holland 88

The blatent ones stand out - especially Belgium. There was a strong whiff about this one and its since been proven that Anderlecht were bribing refs during this period. There was a spooky interview in the Sunday Trib a couple of years back with the Portugese ref - a Mr Nazere(?) which only hightened suspicions that something very dodgy took place.

[monutdfc]

The blatent ones stand out - especially Belgium. There was a strong whiff about this one and its since been proven that Anderlecht were bribing refs during this period. There was a spooky interview in the Sunday Trib a couple of years back with the Portugese ref - a Mr Nazere(?) which only hightened suspicions that something very dodgy took place.
Was it Anderlecht who were (allegedly!) guilty of bribing a referee when they played Nottingham Forest in the European Cup in Cloughie's heyday? It was a blatant case of daylight robbery and I think Clough got in hot water for pointing it out. Anyone know the details?

[fergalr]

Was it Anderlecht who were (allegedly!) guilty of bribing a referee when they played Nottingham Forest in the European Cup in Cloughie's heyday? It was a blatant case of daylight robbery and I think Clough got in hot water for pointing it out. Anyone know the details?

Just go to google and type in:
anderlecht bribery nottingham forest

[Partizan]

Ireland Bulgaria in Sofia in 1977. A win would have set Ireland up for qualification for Argentina. With the score at 1-1 Ireland scored, only for the ref to controversially rule it out under pressure from a hostile home crowd. Stapleton was badly fouled and a brawl saw 4 men sent off, 2 from each side. The Bulgarians scored again to pretty much end Ireland's chances of going through. Even the manager of France, who won the group, stated that Ireland were robbed and the goal was perfectly good.

Maybe we should start this thread again. Have Ireland ever NOT been robbed by the ref in crucial games... :mad:

During a conversation I had with two accomplices in a cafe in downtown Sofia, I mentioned the name Gary Mackay...

went down really well I tell ya. :D

[drummerboy]

What about the two penalties awarded against Ireland when we played Macadonia. Two cases of ball to hand if I remember, one against Terry Phelan, not sure who the other one was against.

[monutdfc]

The penalty awarded against Lee Carsley in the playoff game against Turkey is another one. Handball has to be deliberate and that one was never deliberate.

[sylvo]

Was at the play off game in Bursa v Turkey in 99, so never got to see the incident again on tv, but the foul by Turkey's goalie Rustu outside the box on Connolly which should have seen him get a red card in the first ten minutes.

[sylvo]

[QUOTE=lopez]Loads of them. Belgium the worst by far. Holland 88 perhaps forgivable (Van Basten was trying to get on-side) but Seville in 92 also bad, although did not cost us a place nor the game as in 82. Paris six months before Belgium 81 was also memorable (Robinson goal), Bulgaria in 1977 (apparently the ref was spotted coming out of his hotel room the night before the game.



Was that the game were I think it was Jimmy Holmes broke his leg and the team spent the rest of the night after the game running around Sofia looking to see were they took him due to nobody knowing from the Bulgarian FA where and what hospital they were taking him to.

[lopez]

Was that the game were I think it was Jimmy Holmes broke his leg and the team spent the rest of the night after the game running around Sofia looking to see were they took him due to nobody knowing from the Bulgarian FA where and what hospital they were taking him to.It was the one in 1977 which cost us any chance of going to Argentina. There was an article by a journo in an Irish paper in the eighties (perhaps around the time of the game or us qualifying) by someone. TB read it out at an RISSC meeting. It was like: 'As I watched the game, the face of the referee became vaguely familiar. Where had I seen him before? I suddenly remembered! Falling out of his bedroom at our hotel the night before with two scantily clad ladies of the night helping him try to walk.' Could you imagine Colina in that state? :D

[Stuttgart88]

Belgium in '81 was by far the worst for me.

Gelsenkirchen in '88 was a sickener too, but just as much for the waxy nature of the goal. I never saw the Bulgaria game, only heard it on the radio.

Belgium in '87 was awarded as our throw but because play was delayed due to an injury play resumed with a Belgium throw which led to the goal.

With regard to the England game in Cagliari, just before Sheedy scored Kevin Moran fouled Chris Waddle for what I thought was a slam-dunk penalty which wasn't given. Everyone around me thought it was a penno. When it wasn't given we all shouted "Cheat, Cheat" at Waddle. Quite funny.

[patsh]

Belgium
Bulgaria
Were disgraceful decisions and we suffered because we were such a minor nation then. I don't think it would happen now, as we have a higher profile and possibly a bit more clout.
I always felt sorry for Eoin Hand in particular, because he is such a decent guy, does so many good things for soccer in this country and he had the glory and honour of leading Ireland to their first major finals snatched from him by disgusting and corrupt little cnuts....:mad:

[Sheridan]

We really should hate Belgium.

Thank olivera ******, hated him, big poxy ear ring, not good enough to play for Brazil so I'll declare for Belgium.
Uncomfortably close to home, eh?

Christ, some of this stuff is reminiscent of the English reaction to their elimination from Euro 2004. The sheer effrontery of national team fans complaining about the officiating of ITA-IRL in 1990 beggars belief. Schilacci actually scored a hat-trick in that game; his second goal was erroneously disallowed for offside, his third came from a free-kick which clearly bounced behind the line after striking the crossbar (despite the proximity of the Irish wall, which was almost closer to the ball than Schilacci himself as the free was taken.)

As for Belgium in 1997, I recall it being said at the time that only Irish national team fans could see their team draw 0-0 at home to Iceland and Lithuania, get outplayed by a superior (if still pretty hopeless) team in both legs of the play-off, and bitch about being knocked out of the World Cup by a throw-in. :rolleyes:

[finlma]

Belgium in 97 just before they scored they're 2nd goal, i think it was a throw we should have had and it was given to them and they scored as a result.

I agree that was a dodgy decision but I still hold David Connolly fully responsible for us loosing that game. Every time I see him in an Ireland squad I'm disgusted.

[pineapple stu]

Another one springing to mind - remember hearing Jack Charlton talking in one of those reminiscing shows about a blatant penalty against the USSR in Euro '88 - Tony Galvin "decapitated" by Dassayev, as he put it. Don't remember much about the game now to be honest, but think I remember something like that - anyone remember better? The win would have put us through to the semis too...

That throw against Belgium was shocking - though didn't absolve us of defending, obviously - but the lad standing beside me in Paris was muttering about it every time a decision (especially Pires!) went against us..."F***ing linesmen/referees...robbed us in Belgium and they'll rob us now!" :p

[onenilgameover]

Damn it! The last post and I was waitin to put that digusting chalenge by the Russian keeper in 1988 on Tony Galvin in....I have the tape at home he was clean through and was lifted out of it. Knocked head over heels. It was obviously a peno. We we're 1 up and probably would have crusied into the semi's. Stapleton also missed a sitter in that game. We deserved to win. Having said that it swings in roundabouts I thought Given's challenge on Van Nistelrooy in 2001 was a sure penalty......

[Sheridan]

Damn it! The last post and I was waitin to put that digusting chalenge by the Russian keeper in 1988 on Tony Galvin in....I have the tape at home he was clean through and was lifted out of it. Knocked head over heels. It was obviously a peno. We we're 1 up and probably would have crusied into the semi's.
Yet another urban legend. I don't remember the incident, but I can tell you categorically that it didn't cost Ireland a place in the semis. A victory over the USSR would have made no difference to the final group placings in the light of Ireland's defeat to the Netherlands.

Having said that it swings in roundabouts I thought Given's challenge on Van Nistelrooy in 2001 was a sure penalty......
It wasn't, actually. They still should have hammered you that day, mind.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Regularly away from home from about 1924 up to 1987.

As regards Bulgaria under the Communists. They did not lose at home in a competitive game for years until Gary Mackay scored for Scotland in that never to be forgotten 1-0 win which meant we went to Germany for Euro '88.

[crc]

What about the officials not letting Aldridge on for ages during the Mexico game at USA 94? I don't remember the details to well, but I remember being ****ed off.

The disalowed Aldridge goal in Seville is the worst decision I can remember against Ireland.

[onenilgameover]

Yet another urban legend. I don't remember the incident, but I can tell you categorically that it didn't cost Ireland a place in the semis. A victory over the USSR would have made no difference to the final group placings in the light of Ireland's defeat to the Netherlands.

Right some clarity needed...

If we had of beaten the Russians we would have all been on 6 points having all beaten the english and by virtue of beating the Russians and losing against the Dutch we would have gone through with the Dutch.

The Galvin incident is not a urban legend ye spoon I have it on tape and remember watchin live it looks like a scene from a horror movie.

Thats your point of view with the not given peno in 2001 for me it was a sure thing....

[crc]

If we had of beaten the Russians we would have all been on 6 points.
Wasn't it 2 points for a win back then?

[Sheridan]

Right some clarity needed...

If we had of beaten the Russians we would have all been on 6 points having all beaten the english and by virtue of beating the Russians and losing against the Dutch we would have gone through with the Dutch.

The Galvin incident is not a urban legend ye spoon I have it on tape and remember watchin live it looks like a scene from a horror movie.
I was referring to the thesis that a victory over the USSR would have put Ireland through (as I noted above, I don't recall the Galvin incident.)

And the only spoon here is the one you're going to need to cram that humble pie in your face, boy. The system of three points for a win wasn't introduced for major international tournaments until 1994, so a victory over the USSR would have left Ireland on four points.

Factoring in the Irish defeat to the Dutch and the subsequent USSR 3-1 England result, Ireland would still have finished third by virtue of having scored fewer goals against the group's whipping boys (England.)

Thats your point of view with the not given peno in 2001 for me it was a sure thing....
On detailed examination (four-five replays), there was no obstruction on Given's part. The referee, of course, had no such luxury, and I'm amazed he didn't award the penalty. His nationality (German) and that of the diver (Dutch) may have had something to with it....

PS: You didn't play Russia until 1994.

[Slash/ED]

No way was that a penalty in 2001. Given had nowhere else he could go, it was Van Niselrooys fault for jumping into him and falling over

[Stuttgart88]

After analysis I'd agree with the Given vs V. Nisterooy decision, but at the time I couldn't believe it.

My recollection is that a win over Russia would NOT have got us through. We'd have gone out on GD because we only beat England 1-0. We'd still have gone through if England beat Russia (by 2 goals?). My mate, a staunch republican, said that even under those circumstances he wouldn't want an England win!

Dassayev took Galvin out of it with a two-footed challenge in the box. Aldo was unlucky not to smack in a volley - it looked like he missed by miles but it was pretty close. He should have scored though. I think at the time it was Ireland's best ever performance and if Aldo had scored I think it would have been the best we'd ever scored. If, if, if...

Anyway, George Hamilton cost us the game. He kept going on and on about how we hadn't conceded a goal in 12 games.

Of those games in Sofia, is it true the Bulgarian army had their guns pointed at the Irish throughout the game, threatening to shoot fans who stood up even though it was p1ssing rain?

[gspain]

After analysis I'd agree with the Given vs V. Nisterooy decision, but at the time I couldn't believe it.

My recollection is that a win over Russia would NOT have got us through. We'd have gone out on GD because we only beat England 1-0. We'd still have gone through if England beat Russia (by 2 goals?). My mate, a staunch republican, said that even under those circumstances he wouldn't want an England win!

Dassayev took Galvin out of it with a two-footed challenge in the box. Aldo was unlucky not to smack in a volley - it looked like he missed by miles but it was pretty close. He should have scored though. I think at the time it was Ireland's best ever performance and if Aldo had scored I think it would have been the best we'd ever scored. If, if, if...

Anyway, George Hamilton cost us the game. He kept going on and on about how we hadn't conceded a goal in 12 games.

Of those games in Sofia, is it true the Bulgarian army had their guns pointed at the Irish throughout the game, threatening to shoot fans who stood up even though it was p1ssing rain?

2 points for a win in 88 - had we got that 2nd goal and won 2-0 and assume the 1-0 defeat v the Dutch USSR would have needed to beat England 3-0 to knock us out. We would have been in a strong position.

We were done in Sofia in 77 (Giles had a perfectly good goal disallowed that would have put us 2-1 up late in the game - lost to an even later winner) and 87 (winning penalty was at least a yard outside the area) but France were also done in the WC78 campaign in Sofia but then we also had a perfectly good goal disallowed in Paris that would have made it 1-1 in the 2nd half - 4 years later same story in Paris. We had too many moral victories in those days.

Belgium 81 was by far the worst. I have no doubt that Mr. Nazare was bribed. no referee could ever be that bad. That game still haunts me.

[sylvo]

And I think it was set wrong, or the plaster was too tight or something - the plane had to make an unscheduled stop somewhere in Switzerland on the way home to enable him get proper treatment because he was in agony.


Was chatting to some of the lads from the supporters club here who were over at that game, the team and most of the fans were all in the same hotel and after the match when they came back to the hotel Johnny Giles went up to them and asked if they had a tour guide with them on the trip cause they couldn't find out what was going on about Jimmy Holmes and nobody could speak English, so the team, tour guide and even some of the fans joined in the all night search for him, total madness.

Also when we played them in 87 away there was something dodgy about their winner, I can't remember totally but I know they scored in the final minutes after Stapleton had made it all level, but I remember there was something about their winner that night also.

[lopez]

Of those games in Sofia, is it true the Bulgarian army had their guns pointed at the Irish throughout the game, threatening to shoot fans who stood up even though it was p1ssing rain?I was there in 1987 and, due to superstition, I wore these green shorts at the game (we had remained unbeaten in every game I'd worn them, including Scotland that February). Anyway the Bulgarian fans were alright, but as I was walking into the ground I felt this sharp pain and turned round to see this group of policemen laughing. The next minute more sharp pain and this time a mean looking pig is staring at me waving his huge truncheon. I notice that there is a switch on the truncheon and two metal prods at the bottom. The c*nts were juicing me as I'm walking by with a police version of a cattle prod. :mad: The shorts went in the bin after this game.

Also when we played them in 87 away there was something dodgy about their winner, I can't remember totally but I know they scored in the final minutes after Stapleton had made it all level, but I remember there was something about their winner that night also.Sure was. Dodgy penalty where the foul was outside the area in the final minutes. Same Portuguese ref as at the Italy game in 1990.

[Donal81]

Interesting thread. In 1977, it was Giles' goal that was disallowed, right? There was an article in the Tribune a couple of years back in which a journo - Paul Howard, I think - went and interviewed the referee who disallowed it. They went over the video of the game and every reason the ref gave for disallowing the goal was clearly proved wrong by the video. The conclusion was that yer man was a bit of a nutter.

Belgium in 81 is just painful to watch, shocking refereeing.

Didn't Spain have two goals disallowed against us in 2002? Or was it two occasions on which Morientes was through on goal? I can remember thinking that if I'd been Spanish, I'd be raging. They got some offside decisions against them that were complete rubbish, the game should never have gotten to penalties.

Given against Holland in 2001: I thought that was a classic schoolboy goalkeeper foul - take out the man while making it look like you're going for the ball. In that Irish victories DVD, Given says it should have been a free out. And then bursts out laughing. Not a clearcut decision but I wouldn't have complained about a penalty, he definitely obstructed him. Whether or not it was deliberate was up to the ref.

We've definitely been shafted enough times but we've gotten away with murder too :rolleyes:

[gspain]

I'm not old enough to remember this btw. we were also shafted in 1965 and then shafted ourselves.

Syria withdrew so we faced Spain in a playoff for a place in the 1966 World Cup. We beat them 1-0 in Dublin and needed a draw for a place in the finals.
We led 1-0 in Seville and Andy McEvoy clipped a lovely freekick over the wall and into the net to give us a 2-0 lead and surely qualification but the referee disallowed it. Spain equalised shortly afterwards and eventually won 4-1.

Then the real shenagins. No aggregate scores in those days and no goal difference so a playoff was needed between us to decide who went to England. Highbury had been the proposed venue and with the world cup in england that seemed logical albeit in our favour. The Spanish were unhappy at the thought or thousands of ex pat Paddys roaring on the boys in green particularly after experiencing the Dalymount Roar and Iribar dropping one into his own net so they offered to let the F.A.I. keep all the gate money if they'd agree to play in Paris in front of 30,000 ex pat Spaniards who lived there and 13 travelling Irish fans. we lost 1-0 to a goal 11 minutes from time.

No dodgey ref in 1957 but still we were robbed. We'd beaten Denmark home and away and needed a win over England to guarantee at least a playoff and possible automatic qualification for Sweden. Led 1-0 and murdered them at Dalymount and were set for a famous win when Tom Finney escaped down the right and crossed for a big bumbling westcountryman called John Atyeo to score. The silence could be heard in Cork and gown men cried their eyes out. Long before I was born but have heard the tales and in Stuttgart in 1988 I thought of that game a few times in the closing minutes aprticularly when another big bumbling centeforward Mark Hately rose to head a last gasp cross but this time Packie got a hand to it. Quite a few in green still cried their eyes out though.

We were 15 minutes away from Italia 34 too leading 2-1 in Holland before collapsing to lose 5-2. A draw would have dione. We would have been strong favourites too having won 2-0 on previous visit in 1932.

[Kingdom]

Well Gary some tales there!!!

Anything else? This beats working I tell ye that !!

[pete]

Holland offside goal preventing Ireland reaching euro semi finals in 1988 would have to be most high profile of my lifetime.

[brine3]

A goalkeeper is allowed to stand his ground. If Van Nistelrooy wants to try to run through Given then it's his own fault. The Dutch are convinced that the referee didn't give it because he was a German. (They seem to have quickly forgotten Overmars' dive leading to Gary Kelly getting sent off.)

Anyway, the next day the Dutch referee Jol took petty revenge on the German nation when he refereed the England - Greece game. He gave England about 8 free kicks in the last three minutes, and we all know that Beckham eventually put one of them away. This meant that Germany finished behind England in the group.

I'd say the time we were most robbed was when Macedonia purposely let the Yugoslavians win 4-1 with some very odd defending and interesting own goals.

[lopez]

Didn't Spain have two goals disallowed against us in 2002? Or was it two occasions on which Morientes was through on goal? I can remember thinking that if I'd been Spanish, I'd be raging. They got some offside decisions against them that were complete rubbish, the game should never have gotten to penalties.Despite hundreds of cases of shirt pulling, it was the only one in numerous World Cups that it was given as a penalty. That porn-a-like who refereed the game was probably just settling the score for his penalty against us when we played Turkey in 1999.

...we were also shafted in 1965 and then shafted ourselves.Nothing like being shafted by ourselves. Ahh but Gary, things have changed since then with regards to the FAI. :D :D :D :rolleyes:

[brine3]

Indeed, robbed by the FAI in 1965. Imagine us at the World Cup in 66. We'd have had home crowds of freshly immigrated Irish at every match. And it was one of the greatest Irish teams in history too, if you ask me.

[Risteard]

What happened in 65?

[Karlos]

[QUOTE=brine3]A goalkeeper is allowed to stand his ground. If Van Nistelrooy wants to try to run through Given then it's his own fault. The Dutch are convinced that the referee didn't give it because he was a German. (They seem to have quickly forgotten Overmars' dive leading to Gary Kelly getting sent off.)

QUOTE]

I think we were lucky that Kelly even made it to the second half - his tackles on Overmars were shockingly late and was given the run around for the complete 45 minutes by him - absolutely no excuses should be made for Kelly on that day!

[pineapple stu]

Despite hundreds of cases of shirt pulling, it was the only one in numerous World Cups that it was given as a penalty.
Assume you're referring to Hierro's foul on Quinn? South Korea won a similar one against Italy, though the offence was penalised ludicrously few times.

To settle the Euro 88 thing, the group with us beating the USSR 2-0 and all other results being the same would have been...
NED 3-2-0-1-4-2-4
IRL 3-2-0-1-3-1-4
USSR 3-2-0-1-4-3-4
ENG 3-0-0-3-2-7-0

So if we'd have held on for 2-0, we'd have gone through. Otherwise, as Sheridan pointed out, we'd have lost out on goals scored. I think USSR beat Holland 1-0 in the opening game?