Is Graham Souness anti-Irish

[drummerboy]

About 4 years ago there was an article in the national newspapers hinting at Mr Souness's dislike of Irish players. Will this speculation re-emerge at Newcastle now that Andy O’Brien is likely to be the first casualty, and is said to be on his way. Shay Given actually went to his manager’s office to find out if Newcastle was trying to sell him. This was due to articles appearing in the papers about Givens possible transfer and Souness's admiration of Brad Friedel. It will be interesting to see where Steven Carr fits into his plans. Now recovered from his injury he is almost ready for first-team action again. Taylor, his young deputy, has been impressive.

[inexile]

he must be because he is picking titus bramble ahead of o brien now personally id rather have steven hawking in there before them,on a serious note though,seems to have given steven reid a bad time at blackburn,and didnt do carsley,mcateer,mahon,alan kelly any favours when he was in charge there in fact he seemed to have treated them very harshly,remember mcateer scored his famous goal in the middle of his blackburn hell,and alan mahon was one of their better players in helping them to promotion then was jettistoned and alan kelly was sent to the 3rd team never mind the reserves

[4tothefloor]

All the evidence points to him being anti-Irish, personally I just think he is a very angry man who can't relate to his players - look at his fiasco with Cole and Yorke. Look at the balls up he made of Liverpool. A lot of people will point to his quick sales of Staunton & Houghton at Anfield, his treatment of Irish players at Blackburn, and now it seems to be happening again at Newcastle. The only two Irish players he has had time for were Ronnie Whelan at Liverpool and Damian Duff at Blackburn - but what manager could leave these players out?

On the other hand, he did sign Steven Reid for Blackburn in the first place, even though Reid isn't out and out Irish anyway. He signed Mahon. Apart from Duff, the Irish players at Blackburn were average to be honest. McAteer is the kind of guy that gets on everyones tits, just the kind of character that Souness warms to, so you can see why there was friction there. O'Brien isn't up to it at Newcastle, Villa is more his level, so no surprise to see him being moved on. It'll be more interesting with Carr and Given though. Carr is a narky ******* so somethings bound to happen :D

On top of all that, I think Souness is actually married to an Irish catholic. I'm open to correction on that, but I remember him rubbishing these anti-Irish claims before by saying he visits Ireland regularly to visit his wifes family.

[eirebhoy]

I could name just as many Irish he has been OK with than those who he has treated badly. Someone asked him if he was anti-Irish and he cleared it up there and then.

[Éanna]

I don't think so. i think its just the celtic brigade getting on their high horse because he was with rangers- I remember meeting him when he was southampton manager and they played city in a friendly a few years ago. Struck me as a very nice guy and was more than willing to sign autographs

[Risteard]

was he not the guy who brought in Mo Johnston and made serious efforts to hunt bigotry out of Ibrox?

[Plastic Paddy]

Ahh, you couldn't let this thread go without your usual anti-Celtic fan rant, could you, Éanna? :rolleyes: Still, at least we've been spared the usual derogatory comments about "barstoolers"; well, for this time, at least.

Is Souness anti-Irish? No. Did he break the mould at Ibrox as Risteard points out? Yes. Is he a good manager? No, not really.

:ball: PP

[sylvo]

Ahh, you couldn't let this thread go without your usual anti-Celtic fan rant, could you, Éanna? :rolleyes: Still, at least we've been spared the usual derogatory comments about "barstoolers"; well, for this time, at least.

Is Souness anti-Irish? No. Did he break the mould at Ibrox as Risteard points out? Yes. Is he a good manager? No, not really.

:ball: PP



I agree, I don't think Souness is anti Irish either, I don't think he's a good manager either, his wreaking of the Liverpool team in the early 90's and signing George Wayar's cousin :D who turn's out could hardly kick a ball sum's that up for me.

[Macy]

Don't particularly rate Souness, but not convinced he was to blame for the dippers. The team Dogleash had inherited were past it when Souness came in, and Dalglish didn't have the bottle for building his own team there.

As for the anti-Irish rubbish - if you look at the Irish players he has had, or continues to have, "problems" with they have generally been average players of dubious quality/ past it. Only exception really is Given currently.

Personally, I think it's people looking at his Rangers links and jumping to conclusions - not forgetting all Irish players are great and automatically deserve first team starts...

[Superhoops]

Personally, I think it's people looking at his Rangers links and jumping to conclusions...
'People' being Celtic fans who think that anyone with a Rangers connection is anti-Irish, anti-catholic, a loyalist, an orange ba**ard, the anti-christ, the devil incarnate, blah, blah, blah.

There is no evidence that Souness is anti-Irish. Sure, at every club he has been at during his career he has got rid of some mediocre players, some of who happened to be Irish.

Since arriving at Newcastle, I don't remember him putting Given and O'Brien on the transfer list cos they were Irish. What he has done is to sign a couple of players who he considers are better players than O'Brien. If he was in a position to do so, I am sure he would have no problem signing Duff for example.

I also seem to remember when he was at Blackburn he was involved in setting up some connection between Blackburn and Bohs around the same time he was letting Alan Kelly and Jeff Kenna go and was keen to sign Alan Mahon who was playing in Portugal.

I am no fan of Souness. He was a decent enough player, as a manager I am sure more was expected of him but to start labelling him as anti-Irish is a bit off the mark.

[sylvo]

I thought he was a good enough manager, he turned Rangers on its head and did well with Blackburn.


Conor i'd be asking serious questions about the fella if he could'nt turn Rangers around in 86 seeing that they got the biggest cash injection that any Scottish team ever got and he got the first run of the cheque book on what was to end up 14 year spending spree by them.

A lot of Liverpool fan's I know pretty much blame him for helping their slide, after all he did take over the league champions and then went selling off some of their better players. There was crack's but they blame him for making them worse.

He did ok with Blackburn, got them promoted and a league cup, also went and bought a player for Southampton on the basis of who his cousin was supposed to be, and it turned out the bloke couldn't kick a ball.

He ain't no Stein, Busby or Shankly.

[sylvo]

[QUOTE=Macy]Don't particularly rate Souness, but not convinced he was to blame for the dippers. The team Dogleash had inherited were past it when Souness came in,


Yea ARGGGHHH Kid, they were like champions when he took over, which was at a time when your lot were still watching them with envy.


Mancunian's have a great taste for life do they, even the one's that live in place's like Swinton, Atherton or Tyldesley. :D

[Pat O' Banton]

[QUOTE=Macy]

Mancunian's have a great taste for life do they, even the one's that live in place's like Swinton, Atherton or Tyldesley. :D

They've got a great taste for addidas tracky bottoms, white Reeboks, Nike hoodies and burberry baseball caps, as well as arguing directly outside Mrs O' Banton's window at 2am. :eek: ;)

[lopez]

'People' being Celtic fans who think that anyone with a Rangers connection is anti-Irish, anti-catholic, a loyalist, an orange ba**ard, the anti-christ, the devil incarnate, blah, blah, blah.

There is no evidence that Souness is anti-Irish. Sure, at every club he has been at during his career he has got rid of some mediocre players, some of who happened to be Irish.Who the f*ck mentioned Celtic? Just you and Eanna by the looks of things. :rolleyes: If Drummerboy is that much a part of the 'celtic brigade' I would have thought he'd at least spell his name right and put a 'h' between b and o of boy.

They've got a great taste for addidas tracky bottoms, white Reeboks, Nike hoodies and burberry baseball caps, as well as arguing directly outside Mrs O' Banton's window at 2am. :eek: ;)Is that in Maaan-chest-urrr? Or Palmers Greek? :D

[drummerboy]

I not a Celtic fan, although I have a soft spot for them due to the Irish connection. I don't hate Rangers and my question was not instigated by the fact that Souness was a Rangers manager.

Its probably is just a coincidence but over the years he “moved on or banished to the reserves for long periods” players like Steve Staunton, Alan Kelly, Jeff Kenna, Jason McAteer, Alan Mahon, Lee Carsley and now Andy O’Brien. I think he will probably fall out with the ever scouling Steven Carr.

On the other hand he always praised Damien Duff even though he did sell him and seemed to lots of time for Jonathan Douglas who hasn't been given a look in by Mark Hughes.

If I was a Newcastle fan I would be worried.

[Plastic Paddy]

I not a Celtic fan, although I have a soft spot for them due to the Irish connection.

:eek: Careful Drummerboy. People have been excommunicated for saying less than that round here...


If I was a Newcastle fan I would be worried.

I'd be more worried if I were the Newcastle chairman, knowing that Pee-niss was frittering my money away on ex-Rangers has-beens and never-weres. Still, it's only Freddy Shepherd we're talking about, and I couldn't think of a nicer chairman for the Beast to impoverish.

:D PP

[Macy]

Its probably is just a coincidence but over the years he “moved on or banished to the reserves for long periods” players like Steve Staunton, Alan Kelly, Jeff Kenna, Jason McAteer, Alan Mahon, Lee Carsley and now Andy O’Brien. I think he will probably fall out with the ever scouling Steven Carr.
Arguably Staunton was let go to early, but the rest are average at best. Even Carr hasn't really been up to his old standards recently.

btw He had no choice but to sell Duff due to the clause in Duff's contract. He did of course replace him with another Irish man.

[Aldini98]

I dunno if it's fair to say that Sounness wrecked the Liverpool team. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dalglish bail out because he was given money to buy Jimmy Carter and David Speedie and saw that the writing was on the wall for the Liverpool era? Sounness certainly didn't do much with them, and there was that famous Sun story which alienated the fans, but he didn't inherit the best set-up either. I thought he was a good enough manager, he turned Rangers on its head and did well with Blackburn. Martin O'Neill did well with Leicester and turned Celtic around and one would think he walks on water. Similarly, at Newcastle, he inherited a bit of a mess, with an excess of players up front and a paucity of good centre halves. If he's still doing badly after he's introduced a few players, then I might judge him differently alright.

Sorry for getting off the point, but Dalglish left because the board insisted on Beardsley playing against Everton the that 4-4 F.A. Cup draw when Dalglish wasn't picking him because he was turning up late for training. To add insult to injury, Beardsley scored in the game and ran over to the bench to celebrate.

[Éanna]

:eek: Careful Drummerboy. People have been excommunicated for saying less than that round here...
and ignored for saying it too. I've said pretty much the same, and I'm still apparently "anti-celtic" :D

[Macy]

and ignored for saying it too. I've said pretty much the same, and I'm still apparently "anti-celtic" :D
Barstooler. Been to glasgow once have we? :D

[Plastic Paddy]

and ignored for saying it too. I've said pretty much the same, and I'm still apparently "anti-celtic" :D

You know what sensitive types we Celts are, Éanna, especially round here... :o :D

:D PP

[Éanna]

Barstooler. Been to glasgow once have we? :D
never been in glasgow. never even been in scotland actually. I just admire any club with such vocal and passionate support. that and O'Neill is a great manager

[RedX]

Souness anti-Irish...what a load of rubbish..i agree with the point that its coming from the boring Celtic brigade making up these silly stories..Souness is a decent manager and his only problem comes about when these rich kids that dont give there heart to the club he manages dont make a proper effort...thats his problem..Fair dues to Souness...

[Lionel Ritchie]

I'm ready to be corrected on this but did Souness not have to move on some of his Irish contingent because of the rules at the time regarding foreigners? Basically the spine of the team he inherited had up to 4 Irishmen outfield and a zimbabwean in goals and he'd not be allowed play that team in Europe.

I recall a fair bit of uproar among 'pool fans at the time that John Aldridge -born down the road from Anfield-was being designated a foreigner with the argument the other way going he couldn't have it both ways and be Irish in international weeks and English for club purposes.

[Closed Account 2]

So far as I remember English teams could play 3 Foreign and 3 "Assimilated" players.

Assimilated meant I think, Scottish, Welsh, Irish or Northern Irish. If the squad had more than 3 of the above then they could use them as part of the 3 foreign slots.

ie if a predominantly English squad with say 6 Scots (or Irish or a mix of both) in it then all 6 could play (3 as foreign, 3 as assimilated).

However if that team had 6 Germans instead then they could only play 3 at any one time.

Thats at least the way it was in the early 90s

[sylvo]

They've got a great taste for addidas tracky bottoms, white Reeboks, Nike hoodies and burberry baseball caps, as well as arguing directly outside Mrs O' Banton's window at 2am. :eek: ;)


You've got it all ahead of yer there hoss, any second thoughts. Maybe Arrrgghh kid Macy could tell yer the nicer parts of town to go out in, seeing you are a fellow 2g and that. ;)