Club Budgets 2016

[Philosophizer]

We've done it loads of times, without the benefit of the trophies obviously and I don't think it has actually made any difference to our crowds. The only time they improve is when we go on a run winning games.

I don't think you can really expect any noticeable change in crowds after doing a few school visits. It should just be part of a medium-long term strategy (over 10-20 yrs) to become more intrinsically linked with your local community. I'd imagine that if it's done consistently, year on year (along with other community work), it would certainly improve attendances, as well as generally improving the amount of local goodwill towards the club, which in turn enhances sponsorship opportunities etc etc.

From small acorns big oak trees grow.

[Mr A]

Whatever about Derry, they're a solid prem div LOI team, but how the hell can USL and Donegal SL clubs offer more money than Harps?? It is the fact that they don't have to pay a LOI license fee that they've a bit of spare cash lying around.

On a similar note, it really annoys me that Donegal SL clubs would even want to poach players off Harps. Would they really rather poach a player off Harps to give themselves a better chance to win their own league at the possible expense of Harps promotion to the Prem? From my point of view (someone from leinster), i always thought that Harps represented the whole of Donegal in the LOI, not just Ballybofey. God forbid they'd try to see the bigger picture.

They have very few expenses compared to senior club, including (whisper it) in terms of tax or PRSI. If they have a local businessman backing them they can throw a few quid around. I'm not sure it's a widespread as being everywhere in the country, there are probably some areas it doesn't happen. It suits some players to be a big fish in a small pond. Whether those type of characters would ever make as senior footballers is highly doubtful in any case. But some younger players with potential may take the easy option and that's a shame.

And Irish football is riven with people defending their own little patch. There are plenty in Donegal who'd happily dance on FHFC's grave- but thankfully things a re a lot better than they used to be.

[Philosophizer]

There are plenty in Donegal who'd happily dance on FHFC's grave- but thankfully things a re a lot better than they used to be.

I never knew there were such issues in Donegal. There are big rivalries between the big clubs here in Dublin, but i don't think any fans of Dublin clubs would seriously like to see another club going out of business (even if there is a saturation of clubs).

It's just struck me that Harps are the only LOI club outside Dublin that aren't named after their town/city/county. I'm not saying that a name change would drastically improve crowds or people's goodwill towards the team, but has "Donegal Harps" or something similar ever even been considered. Might just go a small way to garnering more local support around the county - every little helps. I remember reading something in a paper a while ago about one of the committee members complaining that only a handful of people turned up at the club agm!!

[Mr A]

Actually the neutrality of the name means that people from anywhere in the Northwest can feel included. Donegal Harps is mentioned from time to time, but there are a fair few Harps fans across the border, especially in Strabane, so I'd be against it. Apart from the mere suggestion being an abomination in the first place obviously.

[L.T.F.C.]

No they're not. I have it from a reliable source in Dundalk that Towell is on 1,100 p/w, but he's the outstanding player in the league by a distance (and he'll likely be gone v soon), hence why i gave the 800-1k figure as a ballpark for the leagues best players. i doubt there are many others in the league earning upwards of 1k p/w. Maybe a couple at Cork/Rovers but that'd be it.

There are players on more than Towell then!

[Philosophizer]

There are players on more than Towell then!

I've suggested that there may be a couple, but not more than a handful i'd guess. If you know specifics pls enlighten us...

[oriel]

I can't understand why clubs won't/don't do this, no brainer, best recruiting of new fans you can do, IMO

Here are some recent examples. The first link features the iconic Dundalk FM host John Murphy (2nd photo), a former league winner too may I add!


http://www.dundalkfc.com/cara-trophy-visit/

This one is a recent schools visit.

http://www.dundalkfc.com/double-delight-at-kilkerley-ns-2/

Simple things really, but obviously helps if you have a trophy, but still nothing stopping other clubs doing school visits etc with key players.

[wonder88]

See that Everton annual accounts are out this week and it shows that they have the 8th highest revenue in England. There position in the league table at present is 7th so Wexford and Finn Harps, who both have excelled this year will have to repeat their heroics next year if the hope to avoid the bottom 2 places.
In relation to school visits, anything a winning team does is always right. I remember the last time the Cork footballers(men) won the All-Ireland there was a fair bit in the media about a training camp they had on Bere Island, nobody seems interested in what type of training camps they have last two years.

[MattB11]

I think changing the name to Donegal Harps would be second only to 'they should up sticks and move to letterkenny' on the list of things you don't suggest Harps should do, In recent years we've changed the badge to include the words County Donegal though.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think changing the name to Donegal Harps would be second only to 'they should up sticks and move to letterkenny' on the list of things you don't suggest Harps should do, In recent years we've changed the badge to include the words County Donegal though.
Londonderry Harps has an even better ring to it.

[seand]

School visits, training sessions for kids etc won't immediatly improve gates, but it is all about being seen, building goodwill and about normalising the League of Ireland experience. Keeping a high profile in Donegal or Limerick or Dundalk might just convince the odd Liverpool fanatic that Harps or Limerick or Dundalk can be 'their' local team.

[disgruntled]

Whatever about Derry, they're a solid prem div LOI team, but how the hell can USL and Donegal SL clubs offer more money than Harps?? It is the fact that they don't have to pay a LOI license fee that they've a bit of spare cash lying around.

On a similar note, it really annoys me that Donegal SL clubs would even want to poach players off Harps. Would they really rather poach a player off Harps to give themselves a better chance to win their own league at the possible expense of Harps promotion to the Prem? From my point of view (someone from leinster), i always thought that Harps represented the whole of Donegal in the LOI, not just Ballybofey. God forbid they'd try to see the bigger picture.

That's been going on forever.
There are some junior clubs around the country paying more than some LOI clubs.
Some clubs win their junior league or cup year after year & have no interest in going up to the next level.
They see the local LOI club as the enemy.

[D24Saint]

They see the local LOI club as the enemy.

the under 17 league has finally given loi teams a huge boost over a lot of these clubs , the talented younger players will choose to play for a LOI side 9 out of 10 times now imo.

[Philosophizer]

the under 17 league has finally given loi teams a huge boost over a lot of these clubs , the talented younger players will choose to play for a LOI side 9 out of 10 times now imo.

A rumoured u-15 league is also on the way. Should hopefully help even more.

[nigel-harps1954]

A rumoured u-15 league is also on the way. Should hopefully help even more.

Under-15 league is due to start in 2017.

[GCdfc]

Under-15 league is due to start in 2017.

Having being involved in schoolboy/girl football this can only be a good thing. The amount of favouritism towards players of certain teams on the representative schoolboys league squads is disgusting. It's best if taken out of the hands of the local leagues.

[nigel-harps1954]

Having being involved in schoolboy/girl football this can only be a good thing. The amount of favouritism towards players of certain teams on the representative schoolboys league squads is disgusting. It's best if taken out of the hands of the local leagues.

I disagree completely. Clubs need to work with the local schoolboys leagues and build partnerships with them. Harps, for instance, work along with the Donegal Schoolboys League and the South Donegal Schoolboys League as well as the Emerging Talent Programme when it comes to squads for the under-19, under-17s and the Harps Academy teams.

[Philosophizer]

@Nigel: Cheers for the clarification, you know your stuff. Any idea if they're letting the big 6 Dublin nursery clubs put teams in. I know they were up in arms about being excluded from the u17 league. Hopefully the FAI are staying strong though and keeping the foot down...

[nigel-harps1954]

@Nigel: Cheers for the clarification, you know your stuff. Any idea if they're letting the big 6 Dublin nursery clubs put teams in. I know they were up in arms about being excluded from the u17 league. Hopefully the FAI are staying strong though and keeping the foot down...

I've no idea, but the FAI have said previously they'll not be allowed in unless they have a first team in the senior league. Can't imagine them allowing many more Dublin teams in the League of Ireland either. But, this is the FAI and whose to know what they'll allow and not allow.

We'll know better come February I suppose if there's any of those teams considering a first team in the League of Ireland to guarantee entry to the underage leagues.

[Charlie Darwin]

I've no idea, but the FAI have said previously they'll not be allowed in unless they have a first team in the senior league. Can't imagine them allowing many more Dublin teams in the League of Ireland either. But, this is the FAI and whose to know what they'll allow and not allow.

We'll know better come February I suppose if there's any of those teams considering a first team in the League of Ireland to guarantee entry to the underage leagues.
I suspect the senior league requirement is more geared towards pushing schoolboy clubs into seeking meaningful link-ups with LOI clubs. Kevin's might get in but realistically there aren't many clubs that could afford to take the hit of fielding senior clubs like Cabinteely.

[nigel-harps1954]

A couple of budgets may well be adjusted slightly following todays news.


Four different SSE Airtricity League clubs will receive a significant boost from UEFA as a result of Financial Fair Play.

Derry City, Dundalk, Sligo Rovers, and St Patrick's Athletic will each receive €38,970 through UEFA's Financial Fair Play Payments Redistribution system for the 2014/15 season.

This is a redistribution of monies withheld from other clubs who competed in European competition in the 2014/15 season and breached the Financial Fair Play rules.

During the 2014/15 season, St Patrick's Athletic competed in the UEFA Champions League Second Qualifying Round, while Derry City, Dundalk, and Sligo Rovers each made it through to the UEFA Europa League Second Qualifying Round.

[Ezeikial]

I honestly like the application of the redistribution of monies. It cuts from the upper teams and increased the lower teams' chances.

I think the Sligo fans may take umbrage at being called a lower team

[Nesta99]

I disagree completely. Clubs need to work with the local schoolboys leagues and build partnerships with them. Harps, for instance, work along with the Donegal Schoolboys League and the South Donegal Schoolboys League as well as the Emerging Talent Programme when it comes to squads for the under-19, under-17s and the Harps Academy teams.

Well Dundalk do do that. What I think GC is on about is the bias that occurs when selecting squads (Dundalk Schoolboys League) for the likes of the Foyle Cup. Such representative sides and the young lads that are selected is as predictable as lads in the first the first 15 of a gaelic team in a small parish in Leitrim. The U15 league allows players of promise be selected, without bias and get proper coaching (no disrespect to the many very good coaches in the schoolboys league) and guidance. This hasnt been possible in the past as Dundalk FC agreed not to have underage sides, for fear that the best players of DSBL would be lost to DFC, as one issue. It was frustrating to see players head off to Shels and the like anyway, bypassing Dundalk FC due to this agreement. A good dolup off thick arrogance by both parties in the past forgot the important people, the kids. So the U15 league will in general help the development of player in a more balanced way. But there is a owenness on Dundalk to play fair with any potential money from transfers and not overselecting players. A partnership rather than a sense of poaching.

[Ezeikial]

Well Dundalk do do that. What I think GC is on about is the bias that occurs when selecting squads (Dundalk Schoolboys League) for the likes of the Foyle Cup. Such representative sides and the young lads that are selected is as predictable as lads in the first the first 15 of a gaelic team in a small parish in Leitrim. The U15 league allows players of promise be selected, without bias and get proper coaching (no disrespect to the many very good coaches in the schoolboys league) and guidance. This hasnt been possible in the past as Dundalk FC agreed not to have underage sides, for fear that the best players of DSBL would be lost to DFC, as one issue. It was frustrating to see players head off to Shels and the like anyway, bypassing Dundalk FC due to this agreement. A good dolup off thick arrogance by both parties in the past forgot the important people, the kids. So the U15 league will in general help the development of player in a more balanced way. But there is a owenness on Dundalk to play fair with any potential money from transfers and not overselecting players. A partnership rather than a sense of poaching.

What makes you think that local players will be the cornerstone of future U-17 and U-15 squads?

Once the novelty passes and the politics with the local leagues settles down, Dundalk (and other clubs) are likely to cast their net wide in terms of trying to find and develop the best players, irrespective of their location. There will be a deep irony about the reversal of trends where 14 & 15 year olds will trek from North Dublin twice weekly for elite training in Oriel

[Charlie Darwin]

What makes you think that local players will be the cornerstone of future U-17 and U-15 squads?

Once the novelty passes and the politics with the local leagues settles down, Dundalk (and other clubs) are likely to cast their net wide in terms of trying to find and develop the best players, irrespective of their location. There will be a deep irony about the reversal of trends where 14 & 15 year olds will trek from North Dublin twice weekly for elite training in Oriel
Wouldn't be that ironic considering the senior team has been doing it for decades :p

[Nesta99]

What makes you think that local players will be the cornerstone of future U-17 and U-15 squads?



I dont but some of the more established and successful local clubs do or did. The change in attitude in the the SBL admitted a Monaghan team which seemed to terrify some of the bigger egos that with their county wide pool of players and that they may become the dominant club.

[SkStu]

Bray though. Whats the story there? I know they have backing etc but is it sustainable? Is there some other dark strategy at play behind the scenes? Ive followed their circus over the last 12 months and although this opening of the purse strings appears to be positive for them, I cant help but feel it doesn't fit. Im genuinely asking these questions as I do not know and haven't really followed the most recent ins and outs.

[Martinho II]

Bray though. Whats the story there? I know they have backing etc but is it sustainable? Is there some other dark strategy at play behind the scenes? Ive followed their circus over the last 12 months and although this opening of the purse strings appears to be positive for them, I cant help but feel it doesn't fit. Im genuinely asking these questions as I do not know and haven't really followed the most recent ins and outs.

I know there was problems with McGettigans havin full control originally maybe this is all sorted now and the money is pumped lock stock and barrel.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bray are majority owned by developed Gerry Mulvey, who is backing chairman Denis O'Connor. It's rumoured Mulvey is a front for aggressive high-end residential developer Greg Kavanagh. A really suspicious person might wonder why high-end property developers would become particularly interested in a club based in a highly-desirable area of the country.

[SkStu]

cheers lads - Charlie that's where my mind goes too.

So whats the connection between McGettigans and O'Connor or Mulvey/Kavanagh?

[nigel-harps1954]

cheers lads - Charlie that's where my mind goes too.

So whats the connection between McGettigans and O'Connor or Mulvey/Kavanagh?

No connection. McGettigans aren't involved there at all now.

[SkStu]

ok - gotcha. Thanks.

So it is just some multimillionaire property developers looking to invest in a football club to **** away their millions. Seems legit.

[Charlie Darwin]

cheers lads - Charlie that's where my mind goes too.

So whats the connection between McGettigans and O'Connor or Mulvey/Kavanagh?
No connection - they both wanted the club and O'Connor won.

Kavanagh and Mulvey I don't know what the links are. Both developers so presumably some sort of business relationship.

[colonelwest]

Milway/ O'Connor also want the property gravy train to get going again as they have plans to basically turn the Carlisle into office blocks and apartments and either move the club out to the arse end of nowhere in Bray or if they can't get away with that have the pitch & small stands as the back garden/ square to all the newly built offices/ apartments and make a killing selling them then.

[pineapple stu]

...in a club based in a highly-desirable area of the country.
You do know Bray are based in Bray, yep? :p

[Dalymountrower]

You do know Bray are based in Bray, yep? :p

It`s Wicklow solidarity thing.

If you look at the monstrosities that Wicklow CC gave permission for in an actual desirable town like Greystones, I can see a cluster of high rises in the Carlisle within three years and Bray playing in the back of an industrial estate miles from the Dart line.

[Charlie Darwin]

You do know Bray are based in Bray, yep? :p
Haha yeah, apart from the skanger parts the bits on the sea, like the stadium, are pretty desirable.

[Philosophizer]

Haha yeah, apart from the skanger parts the bits on the sea, like the stadium, are pretty desirable.

I'd say the Carlisle grounds is highly desirable to a developer... right beside the sea (that means sea views from a high-rise apt blocks), dart station just around the corner, and the LUAS is planned to go right to the ground aswell at some stage. Easy to see those lads are plannin on making a killing from developing it some day. The owners aren't even denying it from what i understand. They've said that they won't seek to acquire the grounds UNTIL a new facility has been delivered by the club.

the bit i don't get is, the grounds are currently owned by the council. Would the council willingly give up such a prized piece of real estate at so the developers can make a mountain of cash??

[Seagull]

the bit i don't get is, the grounds are currently owned by the council. Would the council willingly give up such a prized piece of real estate at so the developers can make a mountain of cash??

Have a read of this to see what the council might do...http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/shock-at-sale-of-sea-life-building-31410548.html

[Martinho II]

No connection. McGettigans aren't involved there at all now.

I always thought that Brays sponsors were linked with McGettigans?

[Dodge]

Deal fell through in May
http://www.balls.ie/football/what-is-going-on-at-bray-wanderers/300789

[Mr A]

Yeah, they own the Royal Hotel, but I would be very surprised indeed if that deal were to be renewed!

[wonder88]

Seems like exciting times ahead for Bray. According to the Phoenix magazine the Kavanagh guy is known as the Ronaldo of the building/developing scene. No doubt that the Carlisle ground site is extremely valuable. But it is a public asset and even if it is controlled by Wicklow County Council, there must be some people who would be opposed to handing over such valuable property to private interests. I had hoped that we had seen the end of LoI clubs as property plays, but it looks like we have another one. Anyone know how the Doncaster Rovers story played out in the end.

[disgruntled]

I met someone at the cup semi final between Bray & Cork City who said that a deal is already signed & sealed.
This person who lives locally said the Carlisle ground will be a Luas station on the Green line which will be extended from the Brides Glen station.
They seemed to know what they were talking about so who knows what's happening.

[Mr A]

Seems legit.

[pineapple stu]

This person who lives locally said the Carlisle ground will be a Luas station on the Green line which will be extended from the Brides Glen station.
The same Luas line extension that's been planned for the past decade?

[disgruntled]

The same Luas line extension that's been planned for the past decade?

I wouldn't know to be honest.
Just putting it out there.
It would be sad to see Bray shifted off to somewhere else though.

[A Wanderer]

I wouldn't know to be honest.
Just putting it out there.
It would be sad to see Bray shifted off to somewhere else though.

Ground cant be touched for another 11 years Carlisle has to be used as a sports amenity (council clause ) so any investment by a developer would be long term project unless they can get councilors to overturn clause now that could never happen could it?

[disgruntled]

Ground cant be touched for another 11 years Carlisle has to be used as a sports amenity (council clause ) so any investment by a developer would be long term project unless they can get councilors to overturn clause now that could never happen could it?

This is the problem.