will anymore eL players get capped next year?

[drinkfeckarse]

How is the odd match against the Old Firm while consistently playing a lower standard of player better than the odd match against Lille, Split, Deportivo, Rosenborg and co while consistently player a lower standard of player.

Well without being cheeky here, Shels aren't guaranteed to play teams of that calibre all the time. Ye might get knocked out after 2 games next season, ye might not.

It is just my opinion too that the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen provide better opposition than most of the EL teams. They have squads full of full internationals (albeit Finland, Scotland etc) and U21 players and not a lot of EL clubs can provide that.

[Paulie]

Because when I watch football I like to see things done right, and people who make stupid mistakes bug me.


And, like I said, I hate giving any money to the FAI

I'm sure that the Irish team will feel honoured to know that you bother to watch them at all. As for stupid mistakes there are those who would regard picking EL players for the international team as a stupid mistake.

Valid point about the FAI. I don't like the fact that when going to see the team I support that I have to give them money but if that's the price I've to pay then so be it.

I think what this boils down to, and it appears as though the majority of posters on this thread agree with this, playing in the EL is not a criteria for playing in the international side. If Kerr did not go to EL games people would be complaining about the fact that he didn't know anything about it. He has been involved in the league for God know how many years, has come to the conclusion that players are not up to the standard of international football that we aspire to and so people's reaction is to slag him off, all of a sudden he doesn't care about the league. Would you possibly consider that he may have a point?

[Éanna]

As for stupid mistakes there are those who would regard picking EL players for the international team as a stupid mistake.

there are. they're called idiots/barstoolers/sky loving morons. people who's opinion doesn't count.


Valid point about the FAI. I don't like the fact that when going to see the team I support that I have to give them money but if that's the price I've to pay then so be it.
fair enough, thats just a matter of opinion, and each to his own there IMO


I think what this boils down to, and it appears as though the majority of posters on this thread agree with this, playing in the EL is not a criteria for playing in the international side.
you're right. thats why landsdowne is full of people who don't know how to make an atmosphere and why eL grounds aren't full.


If Kerr did not go to EL games people would be complaining about the fact that he didn't know anything about it. He has been involved in the league for God know how many years, has come to the conclusion that players are not up to the standard of international football that we aspire to and so people's reaction is to slag him off, all of a sudden he doesn't care about the league. Would you possibly consider that he may have a point?he has come to that conclusion. but since he stopped working in this league there has been a continuous improvement, and I don'r think he fully appreciates it. He might care about the league, I'm sure he does- I just think he's not doing a great job in how he deals with the league.

Look, I don't suggest that we should suddenly fill the side with untried players in a crunch qualifier. the vast majority of eL players are NOT good enough. But those who are deserve their chance without having to move abroad. And giving a guy 60 mins or even 45 in a meaningless friednly won't harm anyone.

[Paulie]

you're right. thats why landsdowne is full of people who don't know how to make an atmosphere and why eL grounds aren't full.

he has come to that conclusion. but since he stopped working in this league there has been a continuous improvement, and I don'r think he fully appreciates it. He might care about the league, I'm sure he does- I just think he's not doing a great job in how he deals with the league.

Look, I don't suggest that we should suddenly fill the side with untried players in a crunch qualifier. the vast majority of eL players are NOT good enough. But those who are deserve their chance without having to move abroad. And giving a guy 60 mins or even 45 in a meaningless friednly won't harm anyone.

So far as the atmosphere at Lansdowne is concerned, yes it is pretty poor. I've been to enough Ireland away matches however to know that nearly every time we go away we outshout the home support. Yet when these same supporters go to see us play at home there is not nearly the same noise from them. Just for whatever reason home supporters at intl. games tend to be quieter than they should be. This is not just an Irish phenomenon.

As for Kerr not being aware of the continuous improvement in the EL, he still goes to games so you would think that he'd be aware if players were approaching intl. class.

Regarding giving the EL lads a proper run out. I agree that there is a point in giving them a proper run out if Kerr feels that they have a chance of future call ups, and not just for friendlies. Otherwise I can't see a point. You might say what then is the point in calling him up to the squad at all if Kerr's mind is already made up and the player has no real future in the squad. I would agree with that. There is no point.

[Slash/ED]

Well without being cheeky here, Shels aren't guaranteed to play teams of that calibre all the time. Ye might get knocked out after 2 games next season, ye might not.

But they already have played teams of that calibre and proven themselves, the same as you've said there could be said of Hearts and Brian Kerr said it's Hearts European results that are getting Maybury into the team. There's very little between Hearts European results and Shels, only seeding sent them a whopping one round further than us.


ust my opinion too that the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen provide better opposition than most of the EL teams. They have squads full of full internationals (albeit Finland, Scotland etc) and U21 players and not a lot of EL clubs can provide that.

The same Aberdeen Bohs knocked out of Europe? We've internationals here, Shels have four and another who's sat on the bench but didn't get capped for a senior internnational team and that's from countries like Ireland and Cameroon, Ndo went to two world cups ffs! Bohs have two, Drogheda have a Finland international and there's more. And the league is bloody filled with U21 internationals!

[gypsyfella]

But they already have played teams of that calibre and proven themselves, the same as you've said there could be said of Hearts and Brian Kerr said it's Hearts European results that are getting Maybury into the team. There's very little between Hearts European results and Shels, only seeding sent them a whopping one round further than us.



The same Aberdeen Bohs knocked out of Europe? We've internationals here, Shels have four and another who's sat on the bench but didn't get capped for a senior internnational team and that's from countries like Ireland and Cameroon, Ndo went to two world cups ffs! Bohs have two, Drogheda have a Finland international and there's more. And the league is bloody filled with U21 internationals!

Jesus the selective arguments on here are something else!!!

Hearts have been in Europe more regularly than Shels, not just this year.. they beat Bordeaux away from home last year..theyve plenty of Scottish internationals with experience. theyve sold lots of players to Premiership teams in recent years... none of which Shels or any irish team has...

Aberdeen that Bohs beat are miles off the Aberdeen Bohs would play today - would Bohs beat Celtic in Parkhead? Aberdeen did this year...
its experience he;s getting at i think and none of the players in this league have enough at a sufficiently high level...

and im not a BK fan ....

[harry crumb]

Why hasnt Brian Kerr been at Turners Cross...?

[Stevo Da Gull]

A B-Team is certainly the way to go but I dont understand why the EL players who do well for the U-21's are overlooked, they perform well against players from quality league's but are overlooked because they're still plying their trade in the EL- Did'nt K Doyle, Houlihan and J'O Flynn get good reviews when they played , just give them a chance!


And I am not really anti-kerr but the Jason Byrne cap baffled me a bit, he sent on Jayo for stoppage time :eek: :mad: would it of really hurt to have actually given him a chance and put him on with a good 20 mins to go :confused:

[eirebhoy]

There really are some ********'s on this forum. You would think Kerr would prefer Ireland to fail rather than cap an Eircom league player. Cop on people.

[harry crumb]

Its just the frustration of being a League of Irelan fan. We see our national team up to 12th in the world rankings but our league is still light years behind(facilities)

[Colm]

I see a mention of Graham Barrett earlier on in the thread. Would this be the same Graham Barrett who was made look extremely average on a regular basis by Wes Houlihan and John O'Flynn when they were all playing for the Under 21's.

I also see a mention of Steven Elliot. Would this be the same Steven Elliot who Kevin Doyle kept out of the Under 21 team last year.

I honestly don't think Brian Kerr even attended a Cork City game this year, he certainly never showed his face in Turners Cross and I didn't see him any away games. Cork City came within a whisker of winning the league and had a historic run in Europe yet the manager of our national team couldn't even bother his arse to go to a couple of games. He missed out on seeing Kevin Doyle who is undoubtedly better than many of the strikers who currently make it into the squad.

[thejollyrodger]

regarding the facilites, the minister is about to announce a new development out in abbotstown for Rugby soccer and GAA. Its going to be world class faciliites. There was an article in the indo a few days ago, maybe sunday.

Personally I dont belive E.L players should play for Ireland until they are playing in the Champions League

[eirebhoy]

Would this be the same Steven Elliot who Kevin Doyle kept out of the Under 21 team last year.
When was this? I think you'll find that you're wrong.

[Slash/ED]

Jesus the selective arguments on here are something else!!!

Hearts have been in Europe more regularly than Shels, not just this year.. they beat Bordeaux away from home last year..theyve plenty of Scottish internationals with experience. theyve sold lots of players to Premiership teams in recent years... none of which Shels or any irish team has...

Hearts then went and lost 2-0 at home to that Bordeaux side. A side inferior to the side Shels drew with and lost to, who are actualy challanging for the French league. Shels have four internationals with over 40 caps between them one of which has played in two world cups, another player who's been in a senior squad and made the bench but didn't get capped. They've a player elected for U21 player of the year for Ireland ahead of many current internationals and quel suprise he's not been capped yet but the people deemed inferior to him at U21 level have.

And Shels have been in Europe pretty much every season over the past decade :confused: Every season Owen Heary has played for Shels they've qualified for Europe.

And what Hearts players are now in the premiership? I'm not calling you a liar I just can't think of any myself. Shels, incidentally, had Richie Foran who's got a better scoring rate in Scotland then he had in Ireland despite the fact that in Scotland he's playing for a mid table team and in Ireland he played for one of the top teams and I believe he's even played games in mid field this season! And how exactly does selling players equate to a high standard of play?


Aberdeen that Bohs beat are miles off the Aberdeen Bohs would play today - would Bohs beat Celtic in Parkhead? Aberdeen did this year...
its experience he;s getting at i think and none of the players in this league have enough at a sufficiently high level...

and im not a BK fan ....

No but the last LOI team to play in Parkhead drew.

If the criteria is experience Heary has plenty of it. He's played against Rangers, Rosenborg, Sloga Jugomagnat Skopje, Brøndby, Hibernians ( :o ), Olimpija Ljubljana, KR Reykjavik, Hadjuk Split, Deportivo and Lille all home and away and all in Europe, more often than not directly against internationals. Not to mention friendlys which would include teams like Leeds. That's also ignoring what you precieve to be a lack of quality here when he comes up against the like of Kearney, you know, the one starring for our U21s at the moment. He has been superb in pretty much every single one of those games, that's more experience at a high level than alot of our players have, like Elliot who got picked very early on in his career (Just using him as an example, I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be picked but experience wise he was way behind).

If those teams listed aren't a sufficently high level than Ireland have a far better team than I thought.

[Qunnie]

Personally I dont belive E.L players should play for Ireland until they are playing in the Champions League

How many irish international have played in the CL??? Not many I tell ya that much but EL players must play in the CL before they can play for Ireland? Now thats just Rubbish! :rolleyes:

[gypsyfella]

Hearts then went and lost 2-0 at home to that Bordeaux side. A side inferior to the side Shels drew with and lost to, who are actualy challanging for the French league. Shels have four internationals with over 40 caps between them one of which has played in two world cups, another player who's been in a senior squad and made the bench but didn't get capped. They've a player elected for U21 player of the year for Ireland ahead of many current internationals and quel suprise he's not been capped yet but the people deemed inferior to him at U21 level have.

And Shels have been in Europe pretty much every season over the past decade :confused: Every season Owen Heary has played for Shels they've qualified for Europe.

And what Hearts players are now in the premiership? I'm not calling you a liar I just can't think of any myself. Shels, incidentally, had Richie Foran who's got a better scoring rate in Scotland then he had in Ireland despite the fact that in Scotland he's playing for a mid table team and in Ireland he played for one of the top teams and I believe he's even played games in mid field this season! And how exactly does selling players equate to a high standard of play?



No but the last LOI team to play in Parkhead drew.

If the criteria is experience Heary has plenty of it. He's played against Rangers, Rosenborg, Sloga Jugomagnat Skopje, Brøndby, Hibernians ( :o ), Olimpija Ljubljana, KR Reykjavik, Hadjuk Split, Deportivo and Lille all home and away and all in Europe, more often than not directly against internationals. Not to mention friendlys which would include teams like Leeds. That's also ignoring what you precieve to be a lack of quality here when he comes up against the like of Kearney, you know, the one starring for our U21s at the moment. He has been superb in pretty much every single one of those games, that's more experience at a high level than alot of our players have, like Elliot who got picked very early on in his career (Just using him as an example, I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be picked but experience wise he was way behind).

If those teams listed aren't a sufficently high level than Ireland have a far better team than I thought.

hearts players = David Weir, Naysmith, Ricardo Fuller, Colin Cameron (was for cpl years)... others from SPL who are in Premiership last cpl years.. James MCFadden, Malky Mackay, Gary Holt, Barry Ferguson...

not bad for a **** league... the point is that these play in tighter games against better players on a more regular basis. ALl those games that Heary (one of the best in the league no doubt) have been over a few years, and also unfortunately for him, he;s playing in a position where we have more than enough competition...

Also how many of those games did Shels win? just playing them is not good enough.

as for Shels players with caps - its a bit chicken and egg- but Kerr will only be interested if theyre playes with recent caps - why is Ndo not with a better team? seriously?

i'd love to see the day there are plenty of eL players in the irish side, but i really dont think theres any player right now who would make it. or shoudl make it.

as for Maybury - he is better than any full back in the league and he IS STILL 5th choice for ireland...

[Longfordian]

Before any mods get in, can I be the first to say "Attack the post not the poster" :) ..Seriously you come across a wee bit angry, it's the festive season, let it go.

[dcfcsteve]

why dont ya **** off with your british **** you ****ing ****.
**** shels and scotish football, cork city are the biggest and best club in ireland and europe!

Well thought and structured arguement there Shed Res.

Good work..... :rolleyes:

[Slash/ED]

hearts players = David Weir, Naysmith, Ricardo Fuller, Colin Cameron (was for cpl years)... others from SPL who are in Premiership last cpl years.. James MCFadden, Malky Mackay, Gary Holt, Barry Ferguson...

not bad for a **** league... the point is that these play in tighter games against better players on a more regular basis. ALl those games that Heary (one of the best in the league no doubt) have been over a few years, and also unfortunately for him, he;s playing in a position where we have more than enough competition...

Also how many of those games did Shels win? just playing them is not good enough.

Well it's not about Shels winning them it's about Hearys own performances and he was superb against all of those teams, most of which are international quality. I agree about the competition, I'm not saying Heary should start for Ireland but he's better cover than Maybury.


as for Shels players with caps - its a bit chicken and egg- but Kerr will only be interested if theyre playes with recent caps - why is Ndo not with a better team? seriously?

Maybe because the leagues not as bad as you think? Maybe because he wants to play in a team that's playing European football and could have qualified for the champions league last season? And all of the caps are recent bar Moore.


i'd love to see the day there are plenty of eL players in the irish side, but i really dont think theres any player right now who would make it. or shoudl make it.

as for Maybury - he is better than any full back in the league and he IS STILL 5th choice for ireland...

He's third choice for Ireland and Heary is a far better full back. Maybury isn't even the top full back in the SPL.

[gypsyfella]

Well it's not about Shels winning them it's about Hearys own performances and he was superb against all of those teams, most of which are international quality. I agree about the competition, I'm not saying Heary should start for Ireland but he's better cover than Maybury.



Maybe because the leagues not as bad as you think? Maybe because he wants to play in a team that's playing European football and could have qualified for the champions league last season? And all of the caps are recent bar Moore.

He's third choice for Ireland and Heary is a far better full back. Maybury isn't even the top full back in the SPL.

u-21 caps i take it youre speaking of?

he;s at least 4th choice behind Finnan, Carr, O'Shea and most likely behind Harte when he's recalled next year...

[Slash/ED]

u-21 caps i take it youre speaking of?

he;s at least 4th choice behind Finnan, Carr, O'Shea and most likely behind Harte when he's recalled next year...

No, Byrne, Crowe and Ndo have all been cappe within the last season or two.

And he's only behind Finnan and Carr for the right back position for us. O'Shea is our left back and Harte can't even make the squad! He's third choice right back and second choice left back.

[eoinh]

Ironic people are praising Hearts in the week that they have set scottish football back. And if those Ukrainians gain more points theyre ****ed.

[gypsyfella]

No, Byrne, Crowe and Ndo have all been cappe within the last season or two.

And he's only behind Finnan and Carr for the right back position for us. O'Shea is our left back and Harte can't even make the squad! He's third choice right back and second choice left back.


Byrne - 90 seconds. Crowe (decent shift to be fair), Ndo - when?

he;s a dual sided full back.... Harte will be back next year...

[gypsyfella]

Ironic people are praising Hearts in the week that they have set scottish football back. And if those Ukrainians gain more points theyre ****ed.

not praising Hearts mate,, just showing the difference in quality of players they have had.... look at the list who's moved to the prem - i think that is some indication..

[gypsyfella]

Awrih' mate? Fackin 'ell this place is full of fackin' Paddies. Anyway mate, nice to meet anuver Eastender. C'mon the 'Ammers, fackin' 'ell let's give the Owl Bill a right kickin' mate...

emmmm. ok pal. mo chara. mein freund. mon ami.

pe rud is mian leat fhein.

GF.

[Slash/ED]

Byrne - 90 seconds. Crowe (decent shift to be fair), Ndo - when?

he;s a dual sided full back.... Harte will be back next year...

First of all I doubt Heart will be back, secondly if he is it wont change the fact Maybury is our third choice right back, not fifth.

Ndos last cap came in 2003 iirc, could be wrong though.

[Stevo Da Gull]

IMO - Maybury getting in the Ireland team at right back ahead of Heary is a joke. Just give Heary a chance,90 mins in a friendly or whenever, just give the man a chance!

[Sheridan]

To return to the question originally posed...I'd quite like to see Andy Myler get capped (mind you, how would we know he wasn't faking?) :eek:

[Rocky]

I reckon Kerr only gave Crowe and Byrne a chance to get the fans on his side, a PR stunt. It worked too. If they were good enough to get in once why didn't he call them up again!?

[CollegeTillIDie]

hearts players = David Weir, Naysmith, Ricardo Fuller, Colin Cameron (was for cpl years)... others from SPL who are in Premiership last cpl years.. James MCFadden, Malky Mackay, Gary Holt, Barry Ferguson...
...
Colin Cameron played in the EL about 10 years ago didn't he for Sligo Rovers?

[Stevo Da Gull]

Colin Cameron played in the EL about 10 years ago didn't he for Sligo Rovers?

Yeah,I believe so

[MariborKev]

Scored a hatrick to prevent Sligo from nearly being relegated

[mypost]

While I think it's universally accepted that 95% of National League players are not up to International football, I believe the very best players (the obvious ones), are certainly good enough to make the squads, and even play more than 1 minute in friendlies, and if not, France and Switzerland, certainly against the likes of Cyprus, Andorra, and Faroe Islands.

Only about half of the current squad play regularly at club level in England. The rest play in lower leagues, often with little security at bankrupt clubs, don't have much experience, are injury prone or unfit, and/or don't get their game at club level. Yet Brian, like previous bosses before him, has a bias against the NL, and won't pick our leagues' players for love nor money. Then when the English lower league players screw things up in a game, he whinges that we don't have a big enough pool of players to choose from, which is laughable. He has the best of an entire league willing and able to play for him, but refuses to play them. The best NL players also have a limited amount of European experience, which is more than can be said for the likes of Alan Lee, Gary Breen, and Graham Barrett, who can never play in Europe for their clubs.

Who is the better striker? Jason Byrne, or consistent failure, David Connolly?
Who is the better defender? Colin Hawkins, or out-of form, unwanted at club, John O'Shea?

There's no harm in playing our league's best players in friendlies, and at least, giving them a go. In fairness, they're the only players who want to play in friendlies these days!! If they play badly, the result doesn't matter.

Just resorting to English-based players for all games, limits our options, when we have a whole league of players to choose from for friendlies, and competitive games against really poor teams. They're more motivated, would increase the NL profile, and they should be allowed a window of opportunity in those games to show what they can do.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Mypost

Spot on. The only question mark over some eL players might be the fitness of the better part-time professionals. There are a larger number of full-time professional players in the eL now than at any time in the history of domestic football in this state. This is reflected in the improved results recently in Europe over the 1990's for example.

[Rocky]

[QUOTE=mypost]
Who is the better defender? Colin Hawkins, or out-of form, unwanted at club, John O'Shea?
QUOTE]

I couldn't compare Colin Hawkins to John O'Shea in fairness!!

[Slash/ED]

Who is the better defender? Colin Hawkins, or out-of form, unwanted at club, John O'Shea?


That'd be the only part of that post I'd disagree with, O'Shea is clearly on a different planet to Hawkins but otherwise I agree completley.

[mypost]

Perhaps not Colin Hawkins, but you get my point, which is that there are players playing in our league who are better than what we can find in England, and we can play them in games against very poor teams and friendlies, to give them a window of opportunity. The English-based players, and their clubs don't want them playing friendlies, so why not play the best that we have here? They are fit, full-time, willing, available, and against certain teams, good enough to play in competitive games.

Next June, we have 2 vital qualifiers against Israel, and the Faroes. They are banana skins, where the squad will be tired after a long English season, and who will find it difficult to stay fit, after a couple of weeks break from the game. Are you serious to say the NL's best players can't compete against the Faroes??? They would be fit, in-form, available, and ready to bring home the three points.

Brian whinging that we have a limited playing pool is ludicrous. We have an entire league of players to choose from, the best of which are available on tap to play for us. Give them a chance.

[Slash/ED]

Next June, we have 2 vital qualifiers against Israel, and the Faroes. They are banana skins, where the squad will be tired after a long English season, and who will find it difficult to stay fit, after a couple of weeks break from the game. Are you serious to say the NL's best players can't compete against the Faroes??? They would be fit, in-form, available, and ready to bring home the three points.


That is a superb point. When we play the Faroes the players will be at the end of a tireing season and most of them probably wont be fully fit and fully motivated. The EL players would be fully fit, would play out of their skins if given the chance as they'd see it as an amazing oppurtunity and are clearly easily good enough to handle the Faroes team.

[Éanna]

mypost, well said. two excellent posts.

[dynamo kerry]

myposts claim regarding the squad deserves analysis - who is playing on a regular basis here is the last squad called up by kerr.

Republic of Ireland squad: Given (Newcastle), Colgan (Barnsley), Kenny (Sheffield United), Maybury (Hearts), Finnan (Liverpool), Cunningham (Birmingham), Carr (Newcastle), O’Brien (Newcastle), Doherty (Norwich), Dunne (Manchester City), Breen (Sunderland), Holland (Charlton), O’Shea (Manchester United), Miller (Manchester United), Kilbane (Everton), Reid (Nottingham Forest), Kavanagh (Cardiff), Quinn (Sheffield United), Barrett (Coventry), McGeady (Celtic), Duff (Chelsea), Lee (Cardiff), Macken (Manchester City), Elliott (Sunderland), Keane (Tottenham).
"
playing regulary at div 1 or prem level has to be acceptable surely.

goalies: given, (obvious) kenny - surely no complaints there. colgan (odd choice, surely stack would be better but he's in no danger of playing really)

2 of 3 ok choices so far

defenders:
Maybury (Hearts), ahem- playing regularly in sweatyland
Finnan (Liverpool), been a league regular for the last 10 games or so
Cunningham (Birmingham),
Carr (Newcastle), injured was regular
O’Brien (Newcastle), injured- straight back in to replace titus
Doherty (Norwich), injured for a while -played last 3 games(badly)
Dunne (Manchester City), regular- good season apart from today.
Breen (Sunderland), regular
O'shea - essentially dropped for most games.

with the exception of O'shea the rest are all regulars at prem or div 1 standard and except for maybury, no irish based player would really come close. hawkins? awful season. no div one player he.

7/9 for defenders maybury and o'shea (who is been kept out by heinz ffs)

Midfielders:
Holland (Charlton), regular
Miller (Manchester United), AWOL
Kilbane (Everton), reg
Reid (Nottingham Forest), reg
Kavanagh (Cardiff), reg
Quinn (Sheffield United), reg
Barrett (Coventry), sporadic at best

gotta give 5/7 on midfielders but miller looks good enough long term and would play at many other clubs. barret is another story.


strikers
McGeady (Celtic), was on bench for ages. now starts
Duff (Chelsea),
Lee (Cardiff), regular - crap season though
Macken (Manchester City), ahem
Elliott (Sunderland), squad rotation. club leading scorer I think
Keane (Tottenham). squad rotation

5/6 here -

so the only players not getting their game at all are macken, o'shea and miller.
barret has played in 70% of coventry's games. doherty was injured a fair bit but not always. he's still appeared in 11 prem games this season. (50%)


Only about half of the current squad play regularly at club level in England. The rest play in lower leagues, often with little security at bankrupt clubs, don't have much experience, are injury prone or unfit, and/or don't get their game at club level

in actuality of the last squad 21 play all the time for their clubs. If you want to call div 1 a lower league which it is but still superior to EL btw then, yes it's exactly half with 12 players regualryl getting their game in the English prem (not counting RMK)

I don't know what bankrupt clubs has to do with anything. none are bankrupt AFAIK although many of them have the typical financial problems of many teams in england, almost all have debt of some kind. sunderland are doing quite well now mind you.

experience? by my count only mcgeady and elliot are novices at club level the rest are easily in the 100+ game club. As for international experience, well I don't see how that is a massive point against them as it's the same for domestic based players.

injury prone: who are you on about with this 'point'? any stats regarding people being more or less injury prone than others?

bottom line: the irish squad with the exception maybury, macken and colgan is fairly justified. o'shea and miller would be starters anywhere else except chelsea and arsenal.

even maybury could be replaced with harte, colgan with stack and macken with morrison and we'd still be no nearer an EL player. All of this without counting RMK.

I do agree however the odd 25 minutes for the likes of doyle would be fabulous. playing against the faores though is too much of a risk.

[CollegeTillIDie]

goalies: given, (obvious) kenny - surely no complaints there. colgan (odd choice, surely stack would be better but he's in no danger of playing really)


No point in mentioning Stack till his fate before the English Court system is known. Not making any judgements whatever the verdict as this is the country which produced the injustices of the Birmingham Six , Guildford Four and Judith Ward. And that is just the three I can remember at the moment. :(

[pineapple stu]

Have to agree 100% with dynamo kerry's post. Only post to really put head over heart and actually analyse things properly. Can possibly add in Stephen Reid (plays regularly for Blackburn when not injured), Colin Healy (ditto for Sunderland), Rory Delap (Southampton), Alan Quinn (Sheff United) and there's probably a couple of others.


I do agree however the odd 25 minutes for the likes of Doyle would be fabulous. Playing against the Faroes though is too much of a risk.
Realistic, but true, in my opinion.

[dynamo kerry]

just to make another few points about the irish squad.

the team that starts usually would be(roughly)
given
carr
cunningham
o'brien
finnan/o'shea/maybury
Holland/kilbane
Keane
Duff
Reid
Keane
Morrison

Nearly All prem players. all getting their game except o'shea and he's not even really first choice at LB anymore. If Reid isn't a prem player by Jan 29th I'll eat my snowboard. We only get into the div one lads when you start looking at barrett for RW but stephen reids return to form nixes that and after that you're talking about stephen elliot in as striker - gotta be third choice now(deservedly so). The rest are not going to get a competitve game really but are stil better than all but maybe half a dozen players in the EL

speaking of which, the same few names keep popping up all the time. Heary, Doyle, Byrne, Crowe, thats pretty much it. If anyone mentions John O'Flynn after the season he's just had I'll be laughing all the way home. On these 4 or 5 names people say the league is worth seriously looking at? Maybe if there were 20 or even 10 names. There aren't you know.

ps and another thing for those of you who wish it was an 'irish' team. stick kilbane in for holland and all that leaves you to complain about is morrison. Not half bad. Also, the English FA didn't build all those teams in england into the powerhouses they are. the clubs themselves did due to the large support they have in large urban centres. the EL isn't small simply because the FAI are gob****es, history, economics and GAA are also massive factors. Keep crying the beal bocht though, it's massively entertaining.

The LOI's time will come but one has to wonder will it ever be at a point where clubs will have attendances in the 20K range which surely must be necessary in order to pay the wages to have top players. The TV money will never be there in the same way as in england or even scotland so attendances wil lhave to rise in order to move things on in a big way. There's no point being biter about it, only alienates people dunnit?

[sadloserkid]

Put them into a better league, be it the Premiership, Championship or La Liga and then he will see if they can cut it.

At a PC somewhere in the Levante training ground Ian Harte has probably collapsed in a heep of cynical, jaded laughter...

[drinkfeckarse]

Maybe something to do with the gallons of drink I've had over the last few days but I haven't a clue what your point is there SLK.......

[sadloserkid]

Maybe something to do with the gallons of drink I've had over the last few days but I haven't a clue what your point is there SLK.......

Well competing in what I think is officially Europe's top-rated league doesn't seem to have done Mr.Harte's career much good has it?

[drinkfeckarse]

Well competing in what I think is officially Europe's top-rated league doesn't seem to have done Mr.Harte's career much good has it?

Yeah but he was outta the picture in the Premiership too so it's hardly relevant.

My point was about EL players going to a higher league to see if they can cut it not players moving between them.

[dynamo kerry]

You present your post as some statistical analysis, but statements like that clearly show your bias. You assume that Div. 1 is automatically better. There is no factual basis for such assumption - nor in fairness to you can there be. I mean, I see a team like Leeds packed to the brim with players that I believe would struggle in the eL (bar the excellent David Healy and Neil Sullivan). I don't think sweeping generalisations, like 'English Div. 1 is better than the eL' are appropriate. I think each player should be dealt with as an individual, not, as Kerr has done, dismissed en masse because of where they play.


fair enough. but at least I clarified what I was judging all of that on. They are stats in essence as the original statement was that people weren't getting their game full stop or that clubs financial irregularities have a bearing.

I don't think you can ignore what a player has against him every week if you want to say how good he is. There are lads in div 2 who look fabulous and have great seasons and are technically great but who won't cut it at a higher level. It's the old argument that players need to be playing against a decent level week in week out. Fact is in the LOI, only a few times a season are the good players facing good players. It's a lot more common in the english first division.

by your logic, some lad playing in the kerry district league who scores 50 goals should get a call up. an extreme example but either you need to expand on your thinking or I'm picking you up wrong.

[drinkfeckarse]

fair enough. but at least I clarified what I was judging all of that on. They are stats in essence as the original statement was that people weren't getting their game full stop or that clubs financial irregularities have a bearing.

I don't think you can ignore what a player has against him every week if you want to say how good he is. There are lads in div 2 who look fabulous and have great seasons and are technically great but who won't cut it at a higher level. It's the old argument that players need to be playing against a decent level week in week out. Fact is in the LOI, only a few times a season are the good players facing good players. It's a lot more common in the english first division.

by your logic, some lad playing in the kerry district league who scores 50 goals should get a call up. an extreme example but either you need to expand on your thinking I'm picking you up wrong.


Well said.

[Slash/ED]

fair enough. but at least I clarified what I was judging all of that on. They are stats in essence as the original statement was that people weren't getting their game full stop or that clubs financial irregularities have a bearing.

I don't think you can ignore what a player has against him every week if you want to say how good he is. There are lads in div 2 who look fabulous and have great seasons and are technically great but who won't cut it at a higher level. It's the old argument that players need to be playing against a decent level week in week out. Fact is in the LOI, only a few times a season are the good players facing good players. It's a lot more common in the english first division.

by your logic, some lad playing in the kerry district league who scores 50 goals should get a call up. an extreme example but either you need to expand on your thinking or I'm picking you up wrong.

Yet Kerr has said he can pick Maybury based on Hearts European form, which is apparently far superior (read one round better) than anyones in the EL, if it was just about the players he faces week in week our Kerr wouldn't have made the distinction between the old firm, Hearts and the rest, they'd all be pretty much equal.

Kerr has also given more time to English second division players, or league one or whatever it is, than he has to domestic players. Not even someone who was standing out at that level either.