Poland V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 11th October 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[thischarmingman]

Everything that we could control, that was within our control,we didn't and couldn't control.

Well put.

[geysir]

I agree that the diamond seems to suit us better than the 4-1-4-1, but given that it was introduced to accommodate Hoolahan - who declared himself unfit to start last night - reverting to the latter shape can't really be interpreted as a blunder IMO.

As for Ward, as someone else mentioned, I think he was injured. Though, with all due respect to the lad, although he did well against Germany, we know all too well that he's hardly the answer to any left-sided defensive woes!
Ward at LB allows Brady to be played where he is much more effective.
Brady starting in midfield over LB is a no brainer imo as long as there is a full back available - Ward or Wilson.

Hoolahan did look out of sorts when he came on.

[geysir]

After coming back from the game in Cardiff that was a bit of a come down. I thought we were gonna snatch a 2-2 draw at the death.

MO'N picked the wrong team last night. He had got the perfect combination in midfield against Germany but went back to the old tried and trusted (but ultimately) unsuccessful option of Whelan. As I pointed out the other day McCarthy is miles better when Whelan isn't in the team. We have to use him as the DM for the play off games. We also need to steer well clear of starting McClean - impact sub at best.

Brady was woeful last night- keep him in midfield.

Lewandowski is a talented player but by God does he love a dive. O'Shea just kept falling into the traps, you'd think an experienced defender would be wise to such things.

I hope we end up with Sweden or Denmark. I think we could nick a score draw over there. Let's not all go back to the doom and gloom after the euphoric victory on Thursday. Emotionally and physically the players were spent, Hoolahan not being 100% was a problem and it ultimately cost us a result. Need to wrap him up in cotton wool. I just thought we'd have sneaked a draw. Oh well 2 more games....
It's an old adage by this stage going back to the away game against Sweden that McCarthy performs better without Whelan and we play better attacking football with McCarthy and A.N.other. We improved once Whelan was subbed by McGeady and Hendrick moved in closer.

It was always going to be a hectic, frantic, tough, play off game and we had to be up for that part of it but we didn't add much on top of that apart from McGeady's sublime cross into the box. Poland have improved immeasurably since their 2014 WC qual campaign and have played a far better class of football than we could manage throughout this qual campaign, they have Lewandowski but they also have Krychowiak who bossed the midfield last night.
We are worth out play off spot though.

[IsMiseSean]

Ward at LB allows Brady to be played where he is much more effective.
Brady starting in midfield over LB is a no brainer imo as long as there is a full back available - Ward or Wilson.


Cunningham is another option but he is playing for a team at the bottom of the Championship but at least he's playing regularly.
In fairness to Ward he played LB in the two games against Germany and played very well in both games. I can't remember his performance in Glasgow...

[Acornvilla]

Westwood
Coleman - Clarke - O'Shea - Wilson
McCarthy
Walters - Hendrick - Brady
Hoolahan
Long

That'd be the team I'd pick in a perfect world, Randolph could have saved that 2nd goal last night I think, and a top class keeper certainly would, but otherwise he looks pretty solid and confident. You'd worry he'll play very little football in between now and the playoffs thou, so I'd go for Westwood, but MON doesn't seem all that keen.


Edit: Was just thinking re other formations, could we ever make a 3-5-2 work? Brady and Coleman as wingbacks and McCarthy Shielding. Wes and Walters can drift around a bit, with Brady and Coleman overlapping.

Westwood
Clarke - O' Shea - Wilson
Coleman - McCarthy - Brady
Hendrick - Hoolahan
Walters - Long

I'd like to see it at some stage.

[tricky_colour]

Interesting marking (ie none!!) for for the best striker in the world


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnqTzkRHpI4
Unbelievable!!

Just shocking!!

I just find that unbelievable.

[shakermaker1982]

Walters should have gone across there, stood on him and helped out. He was originally Keogh's man but I can see why he had to leave him.

Switch off for one second against a world class striker and you will get punished.

The other thing that frustrated me last night was that we are chasing a goal, we bring Robbie on but then hit long balls up to him. It's not his game, either give him the ball the way he likes it or throw on McGoldrick or Murphy. How can you expect Robbie to win headers and flick ons when he's a foot smaller than the defenders?

[AlanOB]

In fairness, within minutes of Robbie's introduction, they brought on McGeady and moved Walters in beside him in a 4-4-2.

Robbie feeding off a knock down from a big lad worked pretty well for us once!

Not defending the long ball approach, but at least it was quickly recognised that a straight swap of Keane for Long in a 4-1-4-1 would have been ridiculous under any circumstances.

[tricky_colour]

Walters should have gone across there, stood on him and helped out. He was originally Keogh's man but I can see why he had to leave him.

Switch off for one second against a world class striker and you will get punished.

The other thing that frustrated me last night was that we are chasing a goal, we bring Robbie on but then hit long balls up to him. It's not his game, either give him the ball the way he likes it or throw on McGoldrick or Murphy. How can you expect Robbie to win headers and flick ons when he's a foot smaller than the defenders?

Yes I am not at all sure what the idea was there, it was hard to see how we were every going to get the ball to him.

[tricky_colour]

In fairness, within minutes of Robbie's introduction, they brought on McGeady and moved Walters in beside him in a 4-4-2.

Robbie feeding off a knock down from a big lad worked pretty well for us once!

Not defending the long ball approach, but at least it was quickly recognised that a straight swap of Keane for Long in a 4-1-4-1 would have been ridiculous under any circumstances.

Yes but that was Niall Quinn, he is 6'4 (1/4 inch shorter than Lewandowsk) Walters is only 6'0, you could see for Lewandowsk's goal the height difference there.

Probably would have been better to have started Murphy same as v Germany and brought on a fresh Long to use his pace
against tired legs, worked pretty well that way.

[elroy]

Listening to various media outlets in the last 24 hours, one thing caught my attention. The midfield axis of Hendrick, McCarthy, Houlihan and Brady were all very good against Germany. All very talented players and I wonder should we build our team around that axis.

Been a defender of Whelan in the past but I think the reality may be that he and McCarthy play too similar a role. Is it a coincidence that mccarthy's best game for Ireland came in a game where he was the defensive midfielder. Maybe that's too simple an analysis.

Had cause to compare the 2009 playoff team versus what we have now. Arguably the team now is marginally stronger, though we don't have a player like duffer now. Net point is though that this team should expect to be in the second tier in Europe.

[AlanOB]

Yes but that was Niall Quinn, he is 6'4 (1/4 inch shorter than Lewandowsk) Walters is only 6'0, you could see for Lewandowsk's goal the height difference there.


I accept that Walters is not the ideal target man (although he did win a lot of aerial ball in both Germany games).

I was simply arguing against the contention that we hit long balls to Keane. We didn't.

[tricky_colour]

Listening to various media outlets in the last 24 hours, one thing caught my attention. The midfield axis of Hendrick, McCarthy, Houlihan and Brady were all very good against Germany. All very talented players and I wonder should we build our team around that axis.

Been a defender of Whelan in the past but I think the reality may be that he and McCarthy play too similar a role. Is it a coincidence that mccarthy's best game for Ireland came in a game where he was the defensive midfielder. Maybe that's too simple an analysis.

Had cause to compare the 2009 playoff team versus what we have now. Arguably the team now is marginally stronger, though we don't have a player like duffer now. Net point is though that this team should expect to be in the second tier in Europe.


Yea it is rather one dimensional, ie defensive, there is little attacking threat through the middle, it is mainly out to the wing for a run down the line and it all becomes
rather predictable, we need more variety to keep the opposition guessing. ie out to the wing and then back to the centre and then across the other side
maybe, make the opposition do a bit of chasing and try and create gaps for the full back to run into.

Also I could often seen two straight lines v Germany, v Poland we were all over the place. I felt quite comfortable when Germany had the ball for some reason,
they seemed to find it difficult to create good chances. Poland seemed to drag us all over place with holes appearing everywhere.

Mind you we didn't have to score v Germany.

[Fixer82]

Have only been able to bring myself to post now after that disappointment.
Brady's delivery as shocking. McClean should only be an impact sub against a tiring defence. Long was a loss when he came off.
O'Shea and Hendrick looked nervy. Keogh did well.
Overall it seemed the occasion got to them and we really missed Wes. Have to accept O'Neill's version of events that Wes wasn't able for 90 minutes. We really need everyone firing on all cylinders for the play-offs

[DannyInvincible]

Hendrick looked nervy.

I thought he looked jaded, both mentally and physically, and just couldn't get into it. Fair enough, he was under pressure, but there were two occasions in the second half when he seemed to just lose his balance and fall over as the ball was passed to him.

Edit: Not that I wish to single him out for blame or give the impression I'm finger-pointing, but the tiredness was noticeable. It should be noted he's been brilliant throughout the whole campaign and was pivotal in creating some exceptionally important goals.

[OwlsFan]

Back from the front:

Warsaw:

The old town was a disappointment from a "craic" point of view and the "Irish pubs" somewhere you'd do well to avoid picking up a contagious disease in. Saw few enough Irish fans around there so they must have found another place of entertainment. The Uprising Museum was great, even if we had to queue for an hour to get in. Puts the 1916 Rising in the halfpenny place but perhaps we should have something similar.

Fans:

Poorest showing at a game for a long time. There was one large swathe who singularly failed to get off their collective backsides for the whole game. Spectators not supporters. One contingent even started signing "We all dream of a team of Gary Breens" as Ireland were pressing for the equaliser. Hardly the greatest rallying cry even known.

The Game

1987 still remains the last competitive victory away from home against a higher ranked side so I didn't travel with any huge ambition despite the win over Germany - what was the likelihood of two such victories in a row? What I saw (and it was difficult high in the Gods in a great stadium) was not unexpected although I didn't expect Robbie Brady to give the ball away with such regularity and thus render impotent one of our most potent weapons. People say we were tired but how did we finish the stronger? We were offered the chance (Keogh) of the miraculous result. The Gods (and I know, I was up there with them) who had looked benignly on us on Thursday, were otherwise engaged and saw fit to deny us the draw which on the whole would not have been a highway robbery based upon the second half. Hard to comment on the other players as I did not bring my binoculars with me. A fine line between defeat and a 2-2. First time Poland has qualified for the Euros under their own steam and the local fans were very happy (and friendly it must be said before and after).

The Play Offs

If we get Ukraine, we're doomed (I know it in my soul). The rest I'd say we have a reasonable chance but no more than that.

[colonelwest]

Back from the front:

Warsaw:

The old town was a disappointment from a "craic" point of view and the "Irish pubs" somewhere you'd do well to avoid picking up a contagious disease in. Saw few enough Irish fans around there so they must have found another place of entertainment. The Uprising Museum was great, even if we had to queue for an hour to get in. Puts the 1916 Rising in the halfpenny place but perhaps we should have something similar.

Fans:

Poorest showing at a game for a long time. There was one large swathe who singularly failed to get off their collective backsides for the whole game. Spectators not supporters. One contingent even started signing "We all dream of a team of Gary Breens" as Ireland were pressing for the equaliser. Hardly the greatest rallying cry even known.

The Game

1987 still remains the last competitive victory away from home against a higher ranked side so I didn't travel with any huge ambition despite the win over Germany - what was the likelihood of two such victories in a row? What I saw (and it was difficult high in the Gods in a great stadium) was not unexpected although I didn't expect Robbie Brady to give the ball away with such regularity and thus render impotent one of our most potent weapons. People say we were tired but how did we finish the stronger? We were offered the chance (Keogh) of the miraculous result. The Gods (and I know, I was up there with them) who had looked benignly on us on Thursday, were otherwise engaged and saw fit to deny us the draw which on the whole would not have been a highway robbery based upon the second half. Hard to comment on the other players as I did not bring my binoculars with me. A fine line between defeat and a 2-2. First time Poland has qualified for the Euros under their own steam and the local fans were very happy (and friendly it must be said before and after).

The Play Offs

If we get Ukraine, we're doomed (I know it in my soul). The rest I'd say we have a reasonable chance but no more than that.

Back last night myself, old town was empty, we nipped in there and within 20 mins had been nabbed by the indo, a couple of Polski tv stations and helped break a Polish line dancing world record ffs :D. The YBIG lads had the Tortilla factory booked out, the west Belfast lads were in City 24 closer to the ground and nowhere was showing the Rugby so most of our lot were spread about all over the place, we ended up just doing a pub crawl to the ground, good craic with pockets of our lot in different spots going on but everyone wasn't congregated together in the one area. Post game we ended up in a boozer that was literally built into the supports of the bridge you go over right before the stadium, about 30 Irish and a fair Polski crowd in there, knocked into town then but not much doing with everyone so spread out.

Regarding those who got Gary Breen going, I'd rather hear that and our other older songs get back in circulation instead of the 2 poxy Celtic songs on repeat and an odd chorus of Fields of Athenry that comprises our desperately poor songbook these days.

Match wise for me we were dead on our feet after Thursday which is fair enough given the effort that was put in. Whelan and McClean were extremely poor for the fresh men. O'Shea was bloody stupid for getting himself a second yellow that he knew would put him out of the first leg. As was mentioned Brady had an off night with his delivery so we got no joy from arguably the one area we could have got a smash and grab from. Lewandowski is unplayable on current form, despite his theatrics at times. Thought the ref was a strange fella, very stop start, cards for nothing really and then the pen sure. He has previous for being a gob****e though.

This time a few years ago all of us would have snapped the hand off everyone for the playoffs, we're still in with a shout and bar one or two we can at least put it up to we have the beating of the rest of the potential play off opponents. If we get through fantastic but a good campaign given the cards we were dealt and how it went, a good base to push on from for the WC group either way which is a hell of a lot more open.

[Stuttgart88]

Randolph could have saved that 2nd goal last night I think, and a top class keeper certainly would, but otherwise he looks pretty solid and confident. You'd worry he'll play very little football in between now and the playoffs thou, so I'd go for Westwoo.i don't think Coleman helped him but I largely agree. I've been called up here for being critical of Randolph in the past. It's not even that I'm critical. I'll forgive any keeper an error, it's just that I frequently feel a keeper of his ability could have done better for goals I've seen him concede. I felt that way about both goals on Sunday. That said, he made a very good save and looks like a confident keeper. I loved the swagger he showed when he came on against Germany.

Speaking of which, did anyone notice him coming out early before the second half to do a warm up, and then Manuel Neuer went out of his way to go over to him, put his arm around him and - presumably! - wished him luck. Class. I love Neuer, genius of a player. That pass last week...

I think it's becoming clear that Whelan cramps McCarthy's style somehow and there's room for only one. I thought McClean was shocking on Sunday.

[MeathDrog]

i don't think Coleman helped him but I largely agree. I've been called up here for being critical of Randolph in the past. It's not even that I'm critical. I'll forgive any keeper an error, it's just that I frequently feel a keeper of his ability could have done better for goals I've seen him concede. I felt that way about both goals on Sunday. That said, he made a very good save and looks like a confident keeper. I loved the swagger he showed when he came on against Germany.

Speaking of which, did anyone notice him coming out early before the second half to do a warm up, and then Manuel Neuer went out of his way to go over to him, put his arm around him and - presumably! - wished him luck. Class. I love Neuer, genius of a player. That pass last week...

I think it's becoming clear that Whelan cramps McCarthy's style somehow and there's room for only one. I thought McClean was shocking on Sunday.
Very harsh on Randolph. Nobody would have stopped the 2nd goal. 1st goal wasn't really his fault either. Went through bodies and was very well struck.

[SkStu]

I also thought he was fairly unsighted for the second. **** poor marking for both goals to be honest. Slow getting out to the first goal scorer and leaving the highly unlikeable but extremely excellent Lewandowski with so much room is unforgivable.

[jbyrne]

I also thought he was fairly unsighted for the second. **** poor marking for both goals to be honest. Slow getting out to the first goal scorer and leaving the highly unlikeable but extremely excellent Lewandowski with so much room is unforgivable.

for the 2nd goal I thought the centre mids were at fault for not seeing the danger sooner and picking up lewandowski. I think the replay showed mccarthy getting back to help out but far too slowly

[pineapple stu]

Very harsh on Randolph. Nobody would have stopped the 2nd goal. 1st goal wasn't really his fault either. Went through bodies and was very well struck.
I think the first goal took a deflection too. Didn't show clearly on either replay - just an inclination I got from the way the ball bounced. You can also see one of the Polish players in the box celebrate the goal almost as if it was his (by virtue of a nick)

Could be wrong on that, and Randolph wasn't moving anyway - maybe because he was unsighted, as you say.

[jbyrne]

I think the first goal took a deflection too. Didn't show clearly on either replay - just an inclination I got from the way the ball bounced. You can also see one of the Polish players in the box celebrate the goal almost as if it was his (by virtue of a nick)

Could be wrong on that, and Randolph wasn't moving anyway - maybe because he was unsighted, as you say.

the RTE commentary team also said it took a deflection from memory

[Kingdom]

Glik.

[backstothewall]

Regarding those who got Gary Breen going, I'd rather hear that and our other older songs get back in circulation instead of the 2 poxy Celtic songs on repeat and an odd chorus of Fields of Athenry that comprises our desperately poor songbook these days.


We were discussing this in the car on the way home from the Germany game. Our songs are crap. Some new stuff badly needed.

[jbyrne]

We were discussing this in the car on the way home from the Germany game. Our songs are crap. Some new stuff badly needed.

its almost impossible to get new songs for a crowd that gets together maybe 4 or 5 times a year. sure its hard enough getting the crowd to join in at all most of the time. the stadium also lacks the colour of the old ground where effectively every possible spot had a flag hanging from it.

last week my section in the east upper was full of facebookers who hardly lifted their eyes from their phones to watch the match until the last 20 mins when they started filming it!

[MeathDrog]

Glik.
A nick off Glik?

[backstothewall]

its almost impossible to get new songs for a crowd that gets together maybe 4 or 5 times a year. sure its hard enough getting the crowd to join in at all most of the time. the stadium also lacks the colour of the old ground where effectively every possible spot had a flag hanging from it.

last week my section in the east upper was full of facebookers who hardly lifted their eyes from their phones to watch the match until the last 20 mins when they started filming it!

I know. I know. It wouldn't be easy. But we come from a country famous the world over for music and song. In that journey back to Belfast we came to the conclusion that there are songs out there that are uniquely Irish, and known by most. The singing section do a great job but i would love them to introduce something new. There are a lot of songs that don't lend themselves to football, or aren't suitable politically (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHeigdGLB64), but suggestions we came up with were Dirty Old Town, Báidín Fheilimí or Danny Boy.

[geysir]

I know. I know. It wouldn't be easy. But we come from a country famous the world over for music and song. In that journey back to Belfast we came to the conclusion that there are songs out there that are uniquely Irish, and known by most. The singing section do a great job but i would love them to introduce something new. There are a lot of songs that don't lend themselves to football, or aren't suitable politically (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHeigdGLB64), but suggestions we came up with were Dirty Old Town, Báidín Fheilimí or Danny Boy.
Just in case you had other ideas, Dirty Old Town is uniquely Ewan McColl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wj7xZf8xm8#t=16

[backstothewall]

Yeah, but possession is nine tenths of the law, and we stole it decades ago now


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mPraO_sJ7A

Sure the next thing you'll be telling me the words to Danny Boy were written by an Englishman called Frederic Weatherly or that Shane MacGowan was born in Kent

[colonelwest]

We were discussing this in the car on the way home from the Germany game. Our songs are crap. Some new stuff badly needed.

The last spot we were in before heading to the ground in Warsaw there was a great singsong going on in there with all the old classics getting an airing, two young fellas leading it and fair play to them, knew the lot. After the first verse of Joxer they were on their own with most in there though!

If we could even adapt some of the old ones for the current players we'd be doing well or come up with some new ones. Jaysus even "oohhh ahhh Hoolahan" would be a start. We used to have a good varied selection and some gas ones too. With the new Landsdowne not having the vibe and atmosphere of the old and the new age bandwagon jumping, selfie generation; the old vociferous, ardent supports really not there anymore unfortunately. IF we get to France we'll have another 30k on their jollies and I'd say not even a tenth of them will have been to more than 1 of the qualifiers either home or away.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Blog on Poland game finally done for those interested, shame there wasn't a happier ending!

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/2015/10/return-to-poland-return-to-type.html

[backstothewall]

If we could even adapt some of the old ones for the current players we'd be doing well or come up with some new ones. Jaysus even "oohhh ahhh Hoolahan" would be a start. We used to have a good varied selection and some gas ones too.

He drives when he wants
He drives when he wants
Darron Gibson, He drives when he wants!

[OwlsFan]

its almost impossible to get new songs for a crowd that gets together maybe 4 or 5 times a year. sure its hard enough getting the crowd to join in at all most of the time. the stadium also lacks the colour of the old ground where effectively every possible spot had a flag hanging from it.

last week my section in the east upper was full of facebookers who hardly lifted their eyes from their phones to watch the match until the last 20 mins when they started filming it!

I suspect most crowds rely on two or three favourites. The Poles had one to the music of "Quantanda Mera" (to which most fans in England sing "You're going to be sacked in the morning") and a couple more only. I am happy with "Ireland, Ireland etc", "Fields of Athenry", "Come on you Boys in Green" and "Stand up for the Boys in Green". Not sure about "Ole Ole ole". The thing is to get the whole ground to join in.

[Fixer82]

Just in case you had other ideas, Dirty Old Town is uniquely Ewan McColl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wj7xZf8xm8#t=16

true, and is actually about the town of Salford, but alas the nature of all folk music is to borrow and adapt

[OwlsFan]

I suspect most crowds rely on two or three favourites. The Poles had one to the music of "Quantanda Mera" (to which most fans in England sing "You're going to be sacked in the morning") and a couple more only. I am happy with "Ireland, Ireland etc", "Fields of Athenry", "Come on you Boys in Green" and "Stand up for the Boys in Green". Not sure about "Ole Ole ole". The thing is to get the whole ground to join in.

Actually, one I miss is "Cockles and Mussels" which was the mainstay of the fans in Euro 88. I remember when I got back home and watched the BBC video of the game, the fans were singing that song in the Dutch game and after the Dutch scored, John Motson said "it looks like all the cockles and mussels are sold out" :( Perhaps the Ireland fan base was mostly people from Dublin at that time and Euro 88 and Italia 90 spread the interest in the international team (as opposed to at club level) further afield and that's why that song died out. Not sure why else unless Ole Ole Ole replaced it.

[tetsujin1979]

it was sung at Wembley for the 1-1 draw in the euro 92 qualifiers as well

[DeLorean]

The melody, at least, made a return in the streets and pubs of Poznan and Gdansk during the Euros

Alive alive oh
Alive alive ohh
Stephen Ireland's... grandmother's...
Alive alive ohhh

[DeLorean]

Bump.

[DeLorean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JptF8DS414M

[DeLorean]

Closed thread.