View Full Version : Rovers stadium deal falls apart
Report on RTE this morning that South Dublin County Council, have refused to extend the planning permission for the Tallaght Stadium. Rovers have said no money has passed hands & the deal was dependant on the planning permission extension.
Hibs4Ever
16/12/2004, 7:14 AM
Christ. That means at least another season of their supporters vandelising our place :mad:
Has there been any statement fron Rovers on this yet?
This is as big a f*ckup as the Bertie Bowl.....:(
Has there been any statement fron Rovers on this yet?
LOL, even if they did who'd believe them. It fell through because the Clarkson deal hadn't been signed, so cast your minds back a few weeks to the announcement of the Clarkson deal being completed.
Time for the Rovers fans to take over, or breakaway and do an AFC Wimbledon on it. SDCC hold the cards, if they come out and say they won't give any planning for anyone bar Shamrock Rovers FC/ AFC Shamrock Rovers and related developments, then the people who stand to make the money out of the ground will soon fook off. Do a flancare around the rest of the ground to get in and income coming in and then complete the white elephant that is the current stand. All imo obviously....
Ronnie
16/12/2004, 9:40 AM
Whats the story? Is the deal gone so and Rovers are no nearer a home that they were this time last year? While they were never going to be in Tallaght for the 05 season, will they have a chance of getting there for 06?
Passive
16/12/2004, 10:15 AM
Christ. That means at least another season of their supporters vandelising our place :mad:
No S4E, it doesn't. It means that unless we **** the lying *******s who have brought this club to it's knees out of the club there won't be an SRFC next season.
Tony Maguire - you are a liar. You lied to us all and it's time to pack your bags and **** off.
forza
16/12/2004, 11:10 AM
No S4E, it doesn't. It means that unless we **** the lying *******s who have brought this club to it's knees out of the club there won't be an SRFC next season.
Tony Maguire - you are a liar. You lied to us all and it's time to pack your bags and **** off.
:eek:
dublinred
16/12/2004, 11:29 AM
I was at the last game in Milltown will be coming up to 20 years in a few years time it amazing the club survived being on the road so long.
joeSoap
16/12/2004, 11:32 AM
Wonder what Roddy has to say about this??.....5/4 he's gone before the start of the season??
OneRedArmy
16/12/2004, 11:39 AM
Bad new for the EL as a whole.
joeSoap
16/12/2004, 11:44 AM
Hopefully there will be a way out of it. Someone is bound to come on board when they see whats available from a potential point of view. I would say in Maguires defence that he wouldn't have foreseen any hitches with the planning. Surely this is open to appeal?
Maybe something should be learned from all this, and the making of announcements and managerial appointments etc should be kept on ice, like we're doing, until everything is 100% signed, sealed and delivered.
joeSoap
16/12/2004, 11:52 AM
Our struggle continues - no sign of the builders retruning to the stadium site despite statements from our Chairman since the end of last season that we were only weeks away from restarting. Our players being sold despite a statement from the Board that no " under contract" players would be released and an effort by the club to have us play our home games in the "Cess Pit" .
It seems at least the Board have listened to the fans and we will play on the southside of the city.
Perhaps the threat of a protest by the fans at home games or the non entering of the ground on match days have made the Board think twice.
It will be a long and difficult season for the fans but the "Hoops" will always remain united in their love of the club
"Just f##k them all. This is a season which is us against them all. Backs against the wall. They are all out to get us. Despite everything its going to be a great season (a bit like 96/97 all over again) relegation is the enemy,no,everyone is the enemy. We are on our own lads. This is the type of season which will test our loyalty, our dedication, our commitment and our love for Rovers. Get 100% behind Rovers. Full stop. Us against the world - we the supporters have to be 100% behind Rovers - its going to come down to the wire. Rovers, the team, need us more than we need them. Its up to us to give the Hoops the extra man"
LFC in Exile
16/12/2004, 12:06 PM
It fell through because the Clarkson deal hadn't been signed,
Interesting. No deal signed. So that means legally he can walk away. So the lack of a contract works in Rovers favour a few weeks ago and now returns to bite them on the ass.
Joe, I don't think this can be appealed because what SRFC were looking for was an extension to the time of the planning permission at this stage (I am open to correction). The two years to build it has passed, and a declined planning extension can only be "appealed" by means of a judicial review - i.e. very expensive and very uncertain.
I do have sympathy for Rovers fans - but the club acted dishonourably (if legally) in the Roddy saga, so why would they expect honour from Maguire now. If you have a sharp operator runningyour club you can't cheer when he scre ws over someone else and complain when he scre ws over the fans. :ball:
Ringo
16/12/2004, 12:16 PM
Interesting. No deal signed. So that means legally he can walk away. So the lack of a contract works in Rovers favour a few weeks ago and now returns to bite them on the ass.
Joe, I don't think this can be appealed because what SRFC were looking for was an extension to the time of the planning permission at this stage (I am open to correction). The two years to build it has passed, and a declined planning extension can only be "appealed" by means of a judicial review - i.e. very expensive and very uncertain.
I do have sympathy for Rovers fans - but the club acted dishonourably (if legally) in the Roddy saga, so why would they expect honour from Maguire now. If you have a sharp operator runningyour club you can't cheer when he scre ws over someone else and complain when he scre ws over the fans. :ball:
i've avoided gloating so far, but this is a very good point. Maguire should have kept quiet until everything was in place. Roddy will be sick, no money coming into the club. After all the $hite Roddy & Maguire came out with over written contracts , its come back to haunt them & few will have any sleepless nights over Rovers being shafted. If you live by the sword etc etc.
patsh
16/12/2004, 12:31 PM
Is there a strong possibility that this could be the straw that broke the camel's back?
Can Rovers actually survive this time?
I hope this is not the end of the club, and I really hope that that minging cnut Seery doesn't try to use this to get his "club" back into the Premier division....:(
exile
16/12/2004, 12:32 PM
Wonder what Roddy has to say about this??.....5/4 he's gone before the start of the season??
il take it there great odds :D :D
drinkfeckarse
16/12/2004, 12:44 PM
Is there a strong possibility that this could be the straw that broke the camel's back?
I hope not, the league would be a poorer place without Shamrock Rovers :(
Ringo
16/12/2004, 12:49 PM
I hope this is not the end of the club, and I really hope that that minging cnut Seery doesn't try to use this to get his "club" back into the Premier division....:(
Rovers like all teams will be in the premier division as long a they have a licence, its in Rovers hands, no ones elses.
pineapple stu
16/12/2004, 12:49 PM
Joe, I don't think this can be appealed because what SRFC were looking for was an extension to the time of the planning permission at this stage (I am open to correction). The two years to build it has passed, and a declined planning extension can only be "appealed" by means of a judicial review - i.e. very expensive and very uncertain.
Exactly what Aertel are saying...
Shamrock Rovers' plans to move to a new stadium in Tallaght have been hit by a major setback with the news that South Dublin County Council has refused to further extend planning permission for the project.
The county planners turned down the application because they felt it was not clear that extending the planning permission would result in the timely completion of the development.
It's reported that the council was also uncertain over the precise nature of the relationship between the club and its new investor, Conor Clarkson, who was reported to have pumped E9 million in the club in October.
However, a source close to Rovers is quoted in the Tallaght Echo as saying that Clarkson has not released any funds to the club, and that any decision to do so was dependent on securing an extension to the planning permission.
The source added Mr Clarkson was seeking to redesign the stadium to introduce more commercial elements in the second and third phases of development.
It's understood the council's decision cannot be appealed to An Bord Pleanála, but the club could seek a judicial review. Rovers have been homeless since the sale of the Milltown ground in 1987.
I would say in Maguire's defence that he wouldn't have foreseen any hitches with the planning.
They're cursing Maguire on the Rovers ultras board because they say that they (the fans) had predicted something like this months ago, but Maguire had pressed ahead anyway. Also talk about setting up a new club in the AFC Wimbledon mould, though I don't know if anything will come of that, or if it's been mooted before even.
LFC in Exile
16/12/2004, 12:55 PM
Also talk about setting up a new club in the AFC Wimbledon mould, though I don't know if anything will come of that, or if it's been mooted before even.
But AFC Wimbledon had to start non-league. AFC Hoops in the UCL? :confused:
pineapple stu
16/12/2004, 12:56 PM
That's a big problem alright. Though if Rovers were subsequently to fold, there'd be a league place open...
jimhacker
16/12/2004, 12:56 PM
I hope not, the league would be a poorer place without Shamrock Rovers :(
Would it?
No more phantom
announcements about the stadium, no more player strikes over unpaid wages, no more managerial merry go round................yeah I'd really miss all that!
Oh! and no more R.Collins - although that's probably pushing it!
CollegeTillIDie
16/12/2004, 1:09 PM
Maybe if it all goes pearshaped.. Rovers and Shels can develop a new stadium jointly in a green field site and go back together where they belong. After all they both started out in Ringsend, might be some kind of synergy if they jointly developed a stadium... Either that or Baldonnel beckons!
I would say in Maguires defence that he wouldn't have foreseen any hitches with the planning. Surely this is open to appeal?
Maguire and the rest of the Rovers board have no defence over any of this. Maybe if he'd ever been open and honest with the fans. I've been hearing 3 to 4 weeks for years now.
OneRedArmy
16/12/2004, 1:44 PM
Would it?
No more phantom
announcements about the stadium, no more player strikes over unpaid wages, no more managerial merry go round................yeah I'd really miss all that!
Oh! and no more R.Collins - although that's probably pushing it!
If and when Rovers get to Tallaght it will be good for the League. Crowds would rival those of even the mighty Cork City ;) and I'm a big believer in improved facilities being a good thing generally in terms of getting people through the turnstiles and improving revenue.
Just think of the alternative. Dublin City back in the Premier........
Slash/ED
16/12/2004, 2:17 PM
It's worrying alright, unless they go through some kind of appeal, and that looks unlikely, does this spell the end of Rovers? Despite what some people think it would most definitely be a bad thing for the league if that happened. What are Rovers going to do next to try and make this thing happen?
Longfordian
16/12/2004, 2:22 PM
Remember they rejected an approach from Liam Buckley and some mates of his, wonder if that's still an option for them if Clarkson fcuks off?
Sheridan
16/12/2004, 2:24 PM
Just think of the alternative. Dublin City back in the Premier........
Who do you think you're kidding, Derry would f*cking love that. It would save them a fortune in electricity bills (the reliability of the Brandywell floodlights being inversely proportional to Dublin City's position in the league table, as we all know.)
LFC in Exile
16/12/2004, 2:27 PM
(the reliability of the Brandywell floodlights being inversely proportional to Dublin City's position in the league table, as we all know.)
Which means they are very reliable now. :)
If this true would ahve to assume Tallaght stadium pretty much completely dead now. With Rovers support down at probably alltime low will be hard to keep the numbers coming through the gates.
Only lesson to be learnt is not start a project until got guaranteed funds to at least complete the first phase. Rovers might have been unlucky with builder strikes & the such but clearly Tallaght was too ambitious for a struggling eL club let alone oen on top of the league.
Shel$ would do well to learn these lessons if move to Donabate, same for Drogs or any other clubs new plans.
If this true would ahve to assume Tallaght stadium pretty much completely dead now. With Rovers support down at probably alltime low will be hard to keep the numbers coming through the gates.
Only lesson to be learnt is not start a project until got guaranteed funds to at least complete the first phase. Rovers might have been unlucky with builder strikes & the such but clearly Tallaght was too ambitious for a struggling eL club let alone oen on top of the league.
Shel$ would do well to learn these lessons if move to Donabate, same for Drogs or any other clubs new plans.
Personally I think the stand was too abitious. They would've been better going for a more modest design at first and getting in there. Even at €3.5 million (which given building inflation since) it always was a waste of money, let alone at the €11 million they'd have to pay back ifthe clarkson deal is ever done. I doubt flancare, which for all it's faults seats 4,500 - 6,000, 1500 covered, cost that much in total.
Personally I think the stand was too abitious. They would've been better going for a more modest design at first and getting in there. Even at €3.5 million (which given building inflation since) it always was a waste of money, let alone at the €11 million they'd have to pay back ifthe clarkson deal is ever done. I doubt flancare, which for all it's faults seats 4,500 - 6,000, 1500 covered, cost that much in total.
I think sometimes clubs are obcessed with the extra pub or gym facilities. Even abroad some clubs do this but others just build new seated stands @ basic price. I think Sunderland got basic 40k stadium for only £25m sterling.
Costs are a lot higher in this country for for 11m Rovers would still have only had a 1 sided ground with i think only 4k seats. I know Rovers wanted the extra facilities to pay for the ground but ultimately its those extra facilities that have killed it.
Is there any reason Rovers couldn't open the stand as it is & close off the unfinished sections as afaik its structurally sound now?
drinkfeckarse
16/12/2004, 3:12 PM
Would it?
No more phantom
announcements about the stadium, no more player strikes over unpaid wages, no more managerial merry go round................yeah I'd really miss all that!
Oh! and no more R.Collins - although that's probably pushing it!
IMO to lose any club with a long and proud tradition such as Rovers would make the league a poorer place.
They have fallen on hard times but all EL clubs have from time to time, (fair enough Rovers have been wandering for years and should've had it sorted by now) but we shouldn't turn our backs on them.
If we are trying to raise the profile of our league, then teams such as them are vital to it IMO. It doesn't help the league having new teams join every few years and then fold, what it needs is continuity to build upon.
OneRedArmy
16/12/2004, 3:40 PM
Who do you think you're kidding, Derry would f*cking love that. It would save them a fortune in electricity bills (the reliability of the Brandywell floodlights being inversely proportional to Dublin City's position in the league table, as we all know.)
I wonder where you'd gone my delusional little friend :p
Good to see you're still blaming everyone else and their brother for your relegation.
Being a conspiracy theorist, I'd say you should have more interest in how, when we were safe with nothing to play for near the end of the season, we managed to tear strips of your lot for 45 minutes, go 2 nil up, sub our best player (K Brennan, thanks for that btw) and then concede 3 in the last 10 minutes.
How much more help did you want?
Sheridan
16/12/2004, 3:43 PM
IBeing a conspiracy theorist, I'd say you should have more interest in how, when we were safe with nothing to play for near the end of the season, we managed to tear strips of your lot for 45 minutes, go 2 nil up, sub our best player (K Brennan, thanks for that btw) and then concede 3 in the last 10 minutes.?
Because you're cr*p? :p
As for Killian, thank Rod of the Rovers for that. If he's not capped at under-21 level next season I'll be very surprised.
thejollyrodger
16/12/2004, 4:46 PM
I just heard the news on the radio there. Really Bad news:( . The E.L really needs Shams. I wonder why planning permission was refused though, if they had financial backing.
Maybe tallaght would be the best place for Shels to move, put in the money and develop a joint stadium with Shams.
Bald Student
16/12/2004, 5:16 PM
do Rovers own the land on which the pitch is developed,
The county council ownes the land. Rovers have a 250 year lease. I don't think rovers are finished either as they have a valuable asset, the worst that will happen is that they will loose some of it, possibly to the GAA (if you remember they were very interested in taking over the stadium a year ago).
For some light humour, check out http://www.rte.ie/sport/2004/1216/rovers.html
The related stories at the bottom include:
Soccer: Rovers in Tallaght by September - Colwell, Nov 09 1999
GalwayFrancis
16/12/2004, 6:35 PM
anyone have any pics of the state that tallagh is in now?
Buller
16/12/2004, 7:28 PM
i do, unfortunetly :o
strangeirish
16/12/2004, 7:29 PM
anyone have any pics of the state that tallagh is in now?
Yep, see here (http://www.web-insider.us/030708_iraq_14.jpg)
sligoman
16/12/2004, 8:03 PM
Report on RTE this morning that South Dublin County Council, have refused to extend the planning permission for the Tallaght Stadium. Rovers have said no money has passed hands & the deal was dependant on the planning permission extension.
Just want to laugh at a pathetic club! :D :D :D
pineapple stu
16/12/2004, 8:06 PM
The stand actually looks fairly impressive (if you fill in the gaps). Shame, 'cos the league needs more grounds like that. If you know what I mean...!
pineapple stu
16/12/2004, 8:07 PM
Yep, see here (http://www.web-insider.us/030708_iraq_14.jpg)
I shouldn't laugh, but :D
i feel sorry for genuine Rovers fans. The board has once again lied & ****€d them over. I here a lot about Rovers history & tradition., if its to survive there needs to be huge changes at the top.
Martinho II
16/12/2004, 10:04 PM
the lieing and the bullyboy tacticsfrom the rovers board has to stop now as with every passing day they are losing any part of any goodwill the other supporters ofthe other eircom league teams had for them.
even though I hate the minority of their support i feel sorry for the hardcore that have to suffer for years on end. the board should have kept quieton their plans until things were finalised. i have no sympathy for the board whatsoever.
as mentioned in another post shels should move there and have rovers as their tenants in tallaght.
a sad day for rovers.
Slash/ED
16/12/2004, 10:06 PM
as mentioned in another post shels should move there and have rovers as their tenants in tallaght.
Why? I think it'd be great if Rovers got to Tallaght but I don't see why Shels should put money towards the stadium when it doesn't suit them at all just for the sake of Rovers.
The Sheliban
17/12/2004, 5:58 AM
I've had a great deal of sympathy for Rovers fans since the KRAM days, but just because a team has been around for a long time doesn't give it an automatic right to survive. Sometimes if the patient is terminally ill, its time to put her out of her misery, rather than trying to keep her alive on a life-support machine.
Question - will the thousands still flock to Tallaght if Rovers get relegated?
paudie
17/12/2004, 8:11 AM
Rovers were always my least favourite LOI team, because they were so successful basically.
However,despite the poor behaviour of the club during the Roddy Collins fiasco I hope they get into Tallaght. They are a big part of Irish football history. On the other hand they shouldn't get favourable treatment from football authorities regarding licences/relegation etc.
The attitude of South Dublin Council is ridiculous. Every night on the news we see Dublin residents/councillors complaining about lack of leisure facilities for young people in places like Tallaght but when a chance appears to do something practical like giving Rovers a hand to finish the stadium they run a mile. They're not even being asked to give money, just extend planning permission.
Don't be surprised if some housing developer has his eye on the stadium to buy the land on the cheap to make another couple of million
The attitude of South Dublin Council is ridiculous. Every night on the news we see Dublin residents/councillors complaining about lack of leisure facilities for young people in places like Tallaght but when a chance appears to do something practical like giving Rovers a hand to finish the stadium they run a mile. They're not even being asked to give money, just extend planning permission.
Don't be surprised if some housing developer has his eye on the stadium to buy the land on the cheap to make another couple of millionBut this is part of the problem, as far as I understand it. Rovers were given that ground, which is public land, but it seems that whatever way they have gone about it, some land at least will be given into the hands of developers, for nothing, basically.
Rovers fans, am I accurate or talking total sh*te?
joeSoap
17/12/2004, 8:41 AM
Rovers were always my least favourite LOI team, because they were so successful basically.
Kinda like a liverpool thing of the 80's and a ManU thing of the 90's....quite sad. :rolleyes:
Don't be surprised if some housing developer has his eye on the stadium to buy the land on the cheap to make another couple of million
Seeing as Rovers have a 250 year lease on the property, they can still more or less call the shots as regards tenency of the ground.They are still in a decent enough position as regards a pay off from any prospective developer.
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