LOI Club Ownership

[Mr A]

This came up on another thread. Thought it'd be interesting to gather up the info on each club's ownership, I've stuck in what I know, question marks where I'm not sure. Let me know what I haven't got or have wrong:

Athlone Town
Private ownership??

Bohemians
Members owned, annual fee

Bray Wanderers
Private ownership, multiple shareholders

Cabinteely
??

Cobh Ramblers
Current?? Moving to membership with annual fee.

Cork City
Co-op with annual fee

Derry City
Private ownership

Drogheda United
Private ownership

Dundalk
Private ownership

Finn Harps
Co-op, one off payment

Galway United
Combination of local league, Salthill and Mervue plus GUST Co-op

Limerick FC
Private ownership

Longford Town
Members club?

Shamrock Rovers
Members club, annual fee (is there one guy owners a minority shareholding though?)

Shelbourne
Private ownership

Sligo Rovers
Co-op, once off fee

St Patrick's Athletic
Private ownership

UCD
??

Waterford United
Private ownership??

Wexford Youths
Private ownership??

[D24Saint]

The names of the known main shareholders would be usefull aswell, for us it Mr Garrett Kelleher 100% lock stock & barrel.

[dejadem]

Not sure Drogheda would be described as private ownership, a few years ago there was a fan ownership share issue at €1000 each. The type of ownership model is one vote per person regardless of number of shares owned.

[outspoken]

This came up on another thread. Thought it'd be interesting to gather up the info on each club's ownership, I've stuck in what I know, question marks where I'm not sure. Let me know what I haven't got or have wrong:

Athlone Town
Private ownership??

Bohemians
Members owned, annual fee

Bray Wanderers
Private ownership, multiple shareholders

Cabinteely
??

Cobh Ramblers
Current?? Moving to membership with annual fee.

Cork City
Co-op with annual fee

Derry City
Private ownership

Drogheda United
Private ownership

Dundalk
Private ownership

Finn Harps
Co-op, one off payment

Galway United
Combination of local league, Salthill and Mervue plus GUST Co-op

Limerick FC
Private ownership

Longford Town
Members club?

Shamrock Rovers
Members club, annual fee (is there one guy owners a minority shareholding though?)

Shelbourne
Private ownership

Sligo Rovers
Co-op, once off fee

St Patrick's Athletic
Private ownership

UCD
??

Waterford United
Private ownership??

Wexford Youths
Private ownership??

Longford is private owned with one major backer behind our chairman

[WoodquayBoy]

Galway United is: GUST, Galway FA, Mervue, Salthill AND Galway Soccer co-op. Each has 2 members on 11-person board, the 11th being the chairperson who is no affiliated to any of those 5 groups

[Mr A]

So effectively GUST now control 40%? (Assuming most co-op members are of a GUST persuasion)

[ThePrisoner]

Chapter and verse on 11 of PD clubs.

Bohemians - The Bohemian Football Club Limited CRO 8751

Bray - Bray Wanders Limited CRO 108824

Cork - Friends of the Rebel Army Society Limited RFS 5449R

Derry - Derry City Football Club Limited NI601341

Drogheda - Drogheda Utd FC Limited CRO 506239

Dundalk - Dundalk Town FC Limited CRO 519313

Galway - unsure at the moment

Limerick - Munster Football Club Limited CRO 131715

Longford - Domeford Limited CRO 450246

Shams - Shamrock Rovers FC Limited CRO 245954

Sligo - Sligo Football & Sports Development Society Limited RFS 4473R

St Pats - Newtonheath Company Limited CRO 189439


The above is per the latest filed returns. The above are the operating entities. In some cases the above entities are in turn owned by members' clubs eg Drogheda and Shams. Some are owned by private individuals, some by the members and some are co-ops.

Now, who can answer this - which PD club is, by default, owned by the Minister for Finance? the info is on the public record!

[nigel-harps1954]

Now, who can answer this - which PD club is, by default, owned by the Minister for Finance?


Bray, obviously. He's part of the merry-go-round. It's really him that releases all the statements.

[ThePrisoner]

Short answer - No.

[Comic Book Guy]

Cobh Ramblers moved back to a members run club

[Martinho II]

Chapter and verse on 11 of PD clubs.

Bohemians - The Bohemian Football Club Limited CRO 8751

Bray - Bray Wanders Limited CRO 108824

Cork - Friends of the Rebel Army Society Limited RFS 5449R

Derry - Derry City Football Club Limited NI601341

Drogheda - Drogheda Utd FC Limited CRO 506239

Dundalk - Dundalk Town FC Limited CRO 519313

Galway - unsure at the moment

Limerick - Munster Football Club Limited CRO 131715

Longford - Domeford Limited CRO 450246

Shams - Shamrock Rovers FC Limited CRO 245954

Sligo - Sligo Football & Sports Development Society Limited RFS 4473R

St Pats - Newtonheath Company Limited CRO 189439


The above is per the latest filed returns. The above are the operating entities. In some cases the above entities are in turn owned by members' clubs eg Drogheda and Shams. Some are owned by private individuals, some by the members and some are co-ops.

Now, who can answer this - which PD club is, by default, owned by the Minister for Finance? the info is on the public record!

with MN from Limerick it has to be Limerick?

[ThePrisoner]

with MN from Limerick it has to be Limerick?

NO

10 more tries

[Nesta99]

Ground ownership or capital assets should be a subset of this too maybe.

[WoodquayBoy]

So effectively GUST now control 40%? (Assuming most co-op members are of a GUST persuasion)
It's on the QT but . . . yup

[gufcfan]

So effectively GUST now control 40%? (Assuming most co-op members are of a GUST persuasion)

It's optics as far as I'm concerned. Anything that benefits Galway football but is not in the the interests of some will always be voted down.

[ForzaForth]

As far as I'm aware, Wexford Youths are owned by a company controlled by Mick Wallace, with Mick and Sasha Wallace being the directors.

[Charlie Darwin]

Shamrock Rovers
Members club, annual fee (is there one guy owners a minority shareholding though?)

It was originally 50/50 between the 400 Club and Ray Wilson. If I remember right, according to the last set of accounts the Members Club now owns 92%, and will eventually own 100% as intended.

[wonder88]

Was going to say UCD owned by min for finance, but they not in PD. Cork?

[Battery Rover]

Athlone are a members club

[Mr A]

Might be an idea to put in membership / share fees as well. At Harps a share costs €317.50 (if you're wondering about the odd figure, it converted from £250 punts).

[Macy]

Chapter and verse on 11 of PD clubs.

Bohemians - The Bohemian Football Club Limited CRO 8751

Bray - Bray Wanders Limited CRO 108824

Cork - Friends of the Rebel Army Society Limited RFS 5449R

Derry - Derry City Football Club Limited NI601341

Drogheda - Drogheda Utd FC Limited CRO 506239

Dundalk - Dundalk Town FC Limited CRO 519313

Galway - unsure at the moment

Limerick - Munster Football Club Limited CRO 131715

Longford - Domeford Limited CRO 450246

Shams - Shamrock Rovers FC Limited CRO 245954

Sligo - Sligo Football & Sports Development Society Limited RFS 4473R

St Pats - Newtonheath Company Limited CRO 189439


The above is per the latest filed returns. The above are the operating entities. In some cases the above entities are in turn owned by members' clubs eg Drogheda and Shams. Some are owned by private individuals, some by the members and some are co-ops.

It's a condition of licencing that clubs have a company structure too, isn't it?

[Sean South]

I'd like to see a 51% rule in the LOI similar to Germany where fans are in control of their clubs.

[outspoken]

I'd like to see a 51% rule in the LOI similar to Germany where fans are in control of their clubs.

Agree

[gufcfan]

I'd like to see a 51% rule in the LOI similar to Germany where fans are in control of their clubs.

Won't happen anytime soon.

Eamonn Naughton fought to keep Galway football out of the hands of supporters.

[Jofspring]

Would most clubs even have enough support to financially support a majority holdership?

The costs of running a club are massive. Most money men will want, and rightfully so, majority ownership if it's their bobs running the club.

[ThePrisoner]

Ground ownership or capital assets should be a subset of this too maybe.

Most, if not all, of the information on capital and assets is available. You need to do searches on the relevant companies/co-ops.

Ground ownership:

Dalymount - in the process of being sold by The Bohemian Football Club Limited to DCC.

Carlisle Grounds - owned by the local council

Brandywell - owned by the local council

Oriel Park - owned by the Casey family

United Park - owned by the FAI

Tallaght - owned by the local council

Terryland - owned by the local FA

Turners X - owned by MFA

Markets Field - owned by a local regeneration project (ish)

Showgrounds - held in trust for the people of Sligo

Richmond Park - owned by Newtonheath Co Limited

Flancare Park - owned by Longford Town Football Club Limited CRO93442

[ThePrisoner]

It's a condition of licencing that clubs have a company structure too, isn't it?

Not sure but you can check the licensing manual, it's 180 odd pages!!

A company/co-op structure would, IMHO, would be the best.

[ThePrisoner]

I'd like to see a 51% rule in the LOI similar to Germany where fans are in control of their clubs.


Sounds good over a few pints. The members of Bohs have control of the club and look whats happened. Gone from being 'custodians of spiritual home' to the social housing list.

[Stuttgart88]

Hi all, there may be a better thread for this but a pal of mine is on the board of Dulwich Hamlets, a non league club here in the UK, on Crystal Palace's doorstep. I couldn't help but think it's something the LOI could learn from, notwithstanding that there is some good stuff being done by some clubs.

http://www.theguardian.com/global/2015/aug/23/dulwich-hamlet-londons-most-hipster-football-club?CMP=share_btn_link

In general, does anyone have any links to articles on fan ownership in Ireland? A friend here is very interested in the topic.

[citybone]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_sports_teams Most league of ireland clubs are fan owned right now. A few of these are newly fan owned like Cork City fc (See copa 90 video) and Shamrock Rover's. I follow AFC wimbledon and have respect for other supporter ran clubs most notably FC United of Manchester, AFC Telford, Chelmsford and even AFC Liverpool despite their lack of success. Best of luck with your club, You should update the wikipedia page.

[Mr A]

Threads merged. At some stage I'll go back and update the original post with info provided since then.

[Nesta99]

Richmond Park - owned by Newtonheath Co Limited


Hmmm no questioning the following of the EPL and whom by St Pats owner/s

[Nesta99]

I'd like to see a 51% rule in the LOI similar to Germany where fans are in control of their clubs.

Dundalk have a proportion of supporters shareholding. While the 'owners' are the main men and the financial clout the percentage ownership by fans would act as a type of guardian of the club if say the owners tried to do something major like a name change or if possible the sale of the ground. At least thats what is intended by not having all shares in one persons hand Id imagine.

[Dodge]

Hmmm no questioning the following of the EPL and whom by St Pats owner/s

That company name pre-dates the current owner.

Previous companies have all crashed and died (like many others set up to run LOI clubs)

[Charlie Darwin]

That company name pre-dates the current owner.

Previous companies have all crashed and died (like many others set up to run LOI clubs)
Shelbourne Developments is all his idea though.

[Ezeikial]

Dundalk have a proportion of supporters shareholding. While the 'owners' are the main men and the financial clout the percentage ownership by fans would act as a type of guardian of the club if say the owners tried to do something major like a name change or if possible the sale of the ground. At least thats what is intended by not having all shares in one persons hand Id imagine.

Are you referring to DFC Trust?

[Nesta99]

Are you referring to DFC Trust?

*cough* well yes, there hasnt been a formal winding up of the Trust and i'd hope when it happens if the Trust has been entirely absorbed into the club structures then those shares will pass on to a separate supporters entity, or at least officers of the trust will continue to hold a percentage ownership on behalf of supporters still...formalities of AGM's etc would probably have to happen i'm assuming to fulfill legal obligations as a shareholding bloc of DFC with the re/election of officers, publishing of minutes (not a big job!!) etc.

[Ezeikial]

*cough* well yes, there hasnt been a formal winding up of the Trust and i'd hope when it happens if the Trust has been entirely absorbed into the club structures then those shares will pass on to a separate supporters entity, or at least officers of the trust will continue to hold a percentage ownership on behalf of supporters still...formalities of AGM's etc would probably have to happen i'm assuming to fulfill legal obligations as a shareholding bloc of DFC with the re/election of officers, publishing of minutes (not a big job!!) etc.

The Trust have disappeared in a Bermuda Triangle.

[Yossarian]

*cough* well yes, there hasnt been a formal winding up of the Trust and i'd hope when it happens if the Trust has been entirely absorbed into the club structures then those shares will pass on to a separate supporters entity, or at least officers of the trust will continue to hold a percentage ownership on behalf of supporters still...formalities of AGM's etc would probably have to happen i'm assuming to fulfill legal obligations as a shareholding bloc of DFC with the re/election of officers, publishing of minutes (not a big job!!) etc.

You're assuming the trust actually hold shares in some form or other.

[Charlie Darwin]

The Trust have disappeared in a Bermuda Triangle.
Did mypost lend them his spaceship?

[Spudulika]

So what club is government owned?

[ThePrisoner]

Dundalk have a proportion of supporters shareholding. While the 'owners' are the main men and the financial clout the percentage ownership by fans would act as a type of guardian of the club if say the owners tried to do something major like a name change or if possible the sale of the ground. At least thats what is intended by not having all shares in one persons hand Id imagine.

At the moment the company behind Dundalk is Dundalk Town FC Limited (CRO519313). Per the latest filings the company, and by extension, the club is owned and managed equally by two named individuals. This company has run the club from the 2013 season. There was a different company and different owners/directors prior to the 2013 season.

Now whether the ownership as disclosed in the CRO filings, or a % of it, is in trust for the supporters is another matter.

There is no question of the current owners selling OP as they simply do not own it. See my earlier post.

[ThePrisoner]

So what club is government owned?

St. Patrick's Athletic.

Per the records of the CRO:

Newtonheath Co Limited is owned 100% by Mancar Limited (CRO 403848).

Mancar Limited is owned 100% by Trento (CRO397505 - an unlimited company).

Trenor is owned by Garrett Kelleher (75%) and Thomas Hamilton (25%).

Now herein lies the problem. Trentor was dissolved by the CRO in August, 2012 and the assets of a dissolved company are vested in the Minister for Finance.

Have a look at the filings in the CRO and the difficult financial situation St Pat's are in.

[Nesta99]

There is no question of the current owners selling OP as they simply do not own it. See my earlier post.

I'm only too aware of the ownership model of Oriel Park and the associated difficulties associated currently. I was using an example there really - an example that could have come to pass with the previous owner who was critical of any previous Dundalk FC company or board for not trying to purchase the land from the Casey trust at some point. Something that i'd imagine he looked in to at the time.

As for any supporter ownership of the club, I dont know anything beyond what was presented at the time when Dundalk FC Supporters Trust were attempting to buy the club from Gerry Matthews, the club was subsequently sold to the current owners and I was of the belief that this included a percentage sharing with the supporters trust and position on the new board. The Trust now seems defuct in all but on paper. This may not have been the final arrangement in the end but that was certainly the impression given at the time.

[ThePrisoner]

I'm only too aware of the ownership model of Oriel Park and the associated difficulties associated currently. I was using an example there really - an example that could have come to pass with the previous owner who was critical of any previous Dundalk FC company or board for not trying to purchase the land from the Casey trust at some point. Something that i'd imagine he looked in to at the time.

As for any supporter ownership of the club, I dont know anything beyond what was presented at the time when Dundalk FC Supporters Trust were attempting to buy the club from Gerry Matthews, the club was subsequently sold to the current owners and I was of the belief that this included a percentage sharing with the supporters trust and position on the new board. The Trust now seems defuct in all but on paper. This may not have been the final arrangement in the end but that was certainly the impression given at the time.

Ok, I take the point you were making.

All the more reason for any club NOT to own their ground. Look at Dalymount. The ownership of St. Pat's and Richmond Park is mortgaged to the hilt, every blade of grass in the place pledged to the bank and for what reason? - have a look at the filed accounts.

IMO the ideal situation is the Showgrounds. Owned in trust for the people of Sligo. Can only be used for sport, can never be sold, mortgaged or pledged. The Showgrounds was bought in the late 1960s and a band of dedicated supporters walked the town and county collecting money for about five years to pay for it. And that was at a time the club had won nothing for years (the league in 1937) and anchored at the foot of the league.

As I understand the position the previous owner of Dundalk is holding the lease to OP. I hope the Dundalk supporters get their hands on the lease, surrender it to the landlord and get a new one drawn up in the name of about 20 diehard supporters in trust for the people of Dundalk. That should secure your future in OP.

Ideally, purchase the freehold of OP in the name of the people. However, if OP is already in a trust, the unwinding of a trust can be very complicated particularly from a tax position, so a long lease maybe the best outcome.

[Mr A]

I think the big question is- what are you in prison for?

[Charlie Darwin]

I think the big question is- what are you in prison for?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

[Nesta99]

GUST lads start foaming at the mouth!!