Athlone Town want league to emulate MLS

[Battery Rover]

Any views on this

http://www.the42.ie/athlone-town-want-league-of-ireland-emulate-mls-2222159-Jul2015/

[Mr A]

Makes a fair bit of sense. Won't happen though.

[seand]

I'm pretty sure it's in UEFA's rules that member countries' leagues can't be a closed shop and have to have promotion/relegation

[Mr A]

They didn't say it'd be a closed shop. It could be open to new clubs under a new structure.

[Longfordian]

Wasn't there some suggestion that the league has to have two tiers in order to meet the criteria for a UEFA Licence or something?

[Louth4sam]

I think it's absolute nonsense. Dragging down overall standard of the league by diluting it with poor clubs is the last thing we need to do. The best teams need to be in the top league and the bottom teams of the league need to have some motivation.
Where is the motivation on Bray or Limerick to better themselves in July if there is no relegation to worry about. We would likely have 2 good sides at most in each division and the rest made up of teams with no chance.

The MLS's success is the fact that there has been massive money pumped in to it not it's structures

[outspoken]

Total toys out of the pram stuff from athlone. You wouldn't mind them making a statement like this if they were 15 points clear at the top of the division but they are struggling to even get into the play offs, they must have real financial worries down there if they are making statements like this which follows earlier statements earlier in the season. Where were these calls for change when the got promoted and thought they had seen the back of the graveyard division ? Exactly.

[Nesta99]

Change nothing!! (until Dundalk's days in the sunshine are over)

[Titan]

Change nothing!! (until Dundalk's days in the sunshine are over)

Can't thank this cos I'm on phone but I would if I could! :)
Even though you're making a joke (and a good one) there are those at all bigger clubs who think that exact way.
This is one of the reasons it won't happen.
Something like this should happen though.
End of season playoffs would be great. The top 6 involved. Lots of interest and lots of coverage.

[Nesta99]

Play-offs for the league title I dont believe would generate much more interest imo. I think its daft actually, like often in Rugby a team finishes clear at the top then win nothing as the lose a one off semi or final. Its is something that could possibly be tinkered with for Europa League places...maybe! As far as i'm concerned we already have a competition that is the big game close of season affair. To have league finals and a Cup final is overkill. All the restructuring that is needed is the mindset of the FAI and by extension the media involvement in the League. Like Scotland domestic football stories should be back page of the papers for all divisions and foreign leagues get inside page space - we of course do it arseways! At the end of it all though market interest will drive anything - to improve market interest is a big task but we shouldn't feel like we are battling the national association on top of everything. I've mentioned before that it was interesting while living in England that football fans followed their West Hams and Spurs but not at the entire expense of the local Southend or Colchester clubs and the fans also didnt expect a Premier League experience in L2 OR 3. Here the game is compared with whats seen on TV and when its not the same its called muck. Serious inferiority complex if you ask me.

I get where Athlone are coming from, even worse when restructuring did happen Dundalk were promoted and relegated again within weeks. Wexford Youths are in the hunt for promotion and they are not in existence the length of time that some clubs including Dundalk spent in the 1st Division. Sorting out our own clubs boardroom management would be a good start before talk of league restructuring. Lose the quick fix hopes or seeking loopholes like Waterford. The 1st Division does need something to be done but I dont see any magic wands lying around and an MLS model would be a disaster.

[White Horse]

The team who gets the most points are the champions. There are already two cup competitions.

In my opinion, a country of Ireland's size cannot support more than 10-12 clubs in the top level. Perhaps we should be looking at a regional conference type league underneath a single division LOI. In that way there would be a link and pathway between junior and senior football.

[Mr A]

Change nothing!! (until Dundalk's days in the sunshine are over)

This nicely sums up 95% of the responses to any proposal for change in the LOI.

[Longfordian]

Only one thing for it

http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA1LzAyL2ZmL1B5cmFtaWRzLjI4ZjFhLmpwZwpwCX RodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/38f554e0/b15/Pyramids.jpg

[jinxy lilywhite]

This nicely sums up 95% of the responses to any proposal for change in the LOI.

I disagree . most clubs understand and take that the loi is rotten. There are some great folks involved in the clubs especially volunteers who deserve the utmost respect from the loi family.

The suggestion from Athlone is one of desperation. It is tough in the 1st. We had 8 horrible seasons in it that I hope never again to be in it. But the truth is that the teams there are not good enough and 2 tiers are needed. To use the MLS model where it is in a country of over 300m and the clubs are the majority franchises it would never work here.

There is no quick fix to get the league to the standard that we all want. Improvements are needed at the top level from the fai but also the clubs themselves. Bit by bit and little by little. Add in also time and money which none of the clubs have

[TheBoss]

Maybe a 20 team league could work like this... after first round robin phase, i.e. 19 games, the league splits into 2, i.e. positions 1 to 10 in top group and positions 11 to 20 in the bottom group. That accounts for another 18 games (9 home, 9 away), bringing the total to 37 games. Gives all teams at least 18 home games, some 19. But their needs to be incentives for teams in the bottom group to play, that seems to be at least one issue from this idea. (Just thought of this idea in no great detail ;))

[outspoken]

Promotion and relegation is needed they are the only games that attract bumper crowds to have bray V Derry in the battle of who finished 19th in a 20 team league with no relegation will only do one thing for the league and it isn't improve it

[gufcfan]

Promotion and relegation is needed they are the only games that attract bumper crowds. to have bray V Derry in the battle of who finished 19th in a 20 team league with no relegation will only do one thing for the league and it isn't improve it

Never even mind that, what about all the other teams realistically out of the running for Europe?

People thinks there are problems now? Clubs would drop like flies. Monaghan type situations would be an annual occurrence.

[Spudulika]

The team who gets the most points are the champions. There are already two cup competitions.

In my opinion, a country of Ireland's size cannot support more than 10-12 clubs in the top level. Perhaps we should be looking at a regional conference type league underneath a single division LOI. In that way there would be a link and pathway between junior and senior football.

Ireland can support 4-5 team who will aspire to be professional, and another 2 part-time and the rest amateur. 10-12 is massively optimistic.

We don't need promotion-relegation to make it interesting. It doesn't necessarily mean that who finishes top at the end of the regular season are champions. If it is marketed right and supported by the FAI, media and sponsors, it could be massive. Supporters will b!tch for a while, then get behind it and continue to b!tch about the next pain in the neck item. However the 3 main stakeholders in this, FAI, media and sponsors - will never back something that could make senior football in Ireland a success as it would mean too much work.

[White Horse]

Ireland can support 4-5 team who will aspire to be professional, and another 2 part-time and the rest amateur. 10-12 is massively optimistic.

We don't need promotion-relegation to make it interesting. It doesn't necessarily mean that who finishes top at the end of the regular season are champions. If it is marketed right and supported by the FAI, media and sponsors, it could be massive. Supporters will b!tch for a while, then get behind it and continue to b!tch about the next pain in the neck item. However the 3 main stakeholders in this, FAI, media and sponsors - will never back something that could make senior football in Ireland a success as it would mean too much work.

Dublin should be able to support two teams. Cork, Derry, Sligo, and Dundalk have the necessary support base to have decent budgets.

Then their are the "sugar daddy" clubs. Pats at the moment, but Limerick and Drogheda in the past.

10-12 is probably optimistic.

[nigel-harps1954]

Everyone should just rally together, each of the other 19 clubs donate around €30,000 every season, and push Finn Harps on to League and European glory.

We all know it's the only way forward.

[Spudulika]

Dublin should be able to support two teams. Cork, Derry, Sligo, and Dundalk have the necessary support base to have decent budgets.

Then their are the "sugar daddy" clubs. Pats at the moment, but Limerick and Drogheda in the past.

10-12 is probably optimistic.

It depends on what we mean by support. In Dublin you have Rovers with their fans and money, and 2-3,000 between Pats and Bohs (and Shels). Cork for sure, Derry yes, Dundalk yes (though we know what'll happen in a downturn). Sligo are sugar daddy too but with 1,500-2,000 fans. Unless it is just ripped apart and starts again, which would mean Drogheda goes, Cobh, one of Athlone or Longford. 10 pro "franchises" with 2 groups of 20 (north-south divisions) below it with 1 or 2 spots available depending on play-offs.

Or else there is a proper pyramid and have at it.

In Russia all clubs are sugar daddied (can I say that?). In fact in Eastern Europe I could not name a single one in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus (even BATE), the Baltics, Moldova or Serbia who are professional and not dependent on a single person, company or government for survival. BATE have ploughed their money into facilities and coaching, but they still pay very big wages. So if they can thrive, so can we.

10 fully pro clubs, backed by business, fans and government (as they did/do in Norway) and we might have a chance.

[Charlie Darwin]

Who's Sligo's sugar daddy?

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Looking forward to this reply

[Jofspring]

Doesn't every single club in this league have someone pumping some but of money into them? I find it hard to believe any club is run purely either off fans money and/or advertising sponsorship. Some obviously are getting more financial support than others.

[Charlie Darwin]

Doesn't every single club in this league have someone pumping some but of money into them? I find it hard to believe any club is run purely either off fans money and/or advertising sponsorship. Some obviously are getting more financial support than others.
No. Bohs and Rovers don't, apart from members' dues. Sligo don't to the best of my knowledge. There are sponsors who are linked with members of club hierarchy like Pepper, Mr Green, Fyffes, etc, but it's not benefactor money.

[El-Pietro]

Doesn't every single club in this league have someone pumping some but of money into them? I find it hard to believe any club is run purely either off fans money and/or advertising sponsorship. Some obviously are getting more financial support than others.
where do you think Cork City are getting money?

[Charlie Darwin]

where do you think Cork City are getting money?
Cork don't have any money, John Caulfield confirmed as much earlier in the season.

[Spudulika]

Who's Sligo's sugar daddy?

There is a gentleman, known to most of us - if not then you've been letting the grass grow under your feet (mega hint there) who told me that without his financial support Sligo would be gone. Of course the same gentleman loves to beat the drum of being a promoter of Irish business and winning contracts etc, though the truth is rather different.

[Ezeikial]

There is a gentleman, known to most of us - if not then you've been letting the grass grow under your feet (mega hint there) who told me that without his financial support Sligo would be gone. Of course the same gentleman loves to beat the drum of being a promoter of Irish business and winning contracts etc, though the truth is rather different.

I put this into Google Translator. It said


Google says "He is a well known undertaker, and he has told me he gives loads of dosh to Sligo. He is also thinks he is a good drummer, but I disagree"

[Ezeikial]

No. Bohs and Rovers don't, apart from members' dues.

Is the oft repeated contention of Rovers having a Aussie based benefactor just waffle?


There are sponsors who are linked with members of club hierarchy like Pepper, Mr Green, Fyffes, etc, but it's not benefactor money.

Fyffes were club sponsors at Dundalk before the current owners took over. It is a purely commercial deal - and one that has been very cost effective for Fyffes

[nigel-harps1954]

Doesn't every single club in this league have someone pumping some but of money into them? I find it hard to believe any club is run purely either off fans money and/or advertising sponsorship. Some obviously are getting more financial support than others.

Harps have nobody pumping money in either. All through sponsors and fans.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

There is a gentleman, known to most of us - if not then you've been letting the grass grow under your feet (mega hint there) who told me that without his financial support Sligo would be gone. Of course the same gentleman loves to beat the drum of being a promoter of Irish business and winning contracts etc, though the truth is rather different.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish-soccer-league/2008/0715/234662-sligorovers/

Quite a few people helped get us out of this hole in 2008. Delaney even gave us 5k at one stage. None of them are a "sugar daddy" that is pumping money into the club every year to keep it going. Maybe he should take it easy on the grass.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is the oft repeated contention of Rovers having a Aussie based benefactor just waffle?
The Aussie-based supporter is a higher-up at Pepper and helped organise the sponsorship.

[Ezeikial]

The Aussie-based supporter is a higher-up at Pepper and helped organise the sponsorship.

Was this guy a benefactor to Rovers prior to the establishment of Pepper in Ireland?

[Charlie Darwin]

Was this guy a benefactor to Rovers prior to the establishment of Pepper in Ireland?
He put up half the money to buy the club out of examinership but far as I know he's not in a position to be putting any more in. The club's accounts indicate they've only drawn down shareholder funds in the last couple of years.

[Bunny Kelly]

As crazy as it sounded Niall Quinn was right & we should be looking to sell out TV rights to the Asian market (well he said African) the football betting market is massive & given the lack of big leagues over the summer there would be decent demand for just anything to watch & bet on

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33594354

[peadar1987]

The FAI and the clubs should have acted to stop the rot in the past, before we lost Monaghan, Kildare, Fingal, Kilkenny, and all of the teams who competed in the A Championship (Castlebar, Carlow, Tralee and Tullamore).

If even a couple of them had been saved from going under, we could have two 12-team divisions, instead of one decent division and an absolute graveyard.

[Louth4sam]

As crazy as it sounded Niall Quinn was right & we should be looking to sell out TV rights to the Asian market (well he said African) the football betting market is massive & given the lack of big leagues over the summer there would be decent demand for just anything to watch & bet on

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33594354

I didn't think it sounded crazy at all. If we got 50k each from 20 countries that is a massive increase on prizemoney. A major issue is the stadia. There is two or three that would look adequate on TV but the rest would look terrible.

[peadar1987]

I didn't think it sounded crazy at all. If we got 50k each from 20 countries that is a massive increase on prizemoney. A major issue is the stadia. There is two or three that would look adequate on TV but the rest would look terrible.

Tallaght, Dalymount, Eamonn Deacy, Turner's Cross and the Showgrounds would probably look okay. Richmond as well if there's a decent crowd. You could probably get enough matches being played between those grounds to make an okay programming schedule.

[Bunny Kelly]

Agreed the initial funding in a lot of places would have to go into sprucing up the grounds & developing them for TV coverage, but when you the setting for some games on 365 punters aren't that picky

[Macy]

I actually think it's an alright proposal - I have posted similar in the past. You can maintain interest down the league by having cup and shield play off's as well, and hold a big finals day or weekend with 3 or 4 games.

The reality of the status quo is that we are maintaining enough teams for two divisions by the skin of our teeth, every year. The way things are going, it's inevitable that a single division is going to become the only option due to a lack of senior clubs. In the meantime, we've lost clubs that could potentially have made a go of it in a more inclusive structure.

[Kingdom]

I'm really surprised that either a Tralee or Kerry side hasn't been brought into the LOI at this stage. I know Legendz is the oracle on Kerry football around here, but football is booming in the Kingdom, and they'd have a decent side at home at first division level all things considered. The problem I'd see would be that none of the clubs would be big enough in themselves (incl Dynamos and Park) to make a proper fist of first division, and whether all clubs would buy into a Tralee team or a Kerry team that incorporated the best talent in the county, I don't know.

I know that the A Championship idea suited them really well.

This is a very unfortunate situation in Irish football. If you were starting things with a blank canvas, then a one-division, centrally contracted franchise system with Northside & Southside Dublin, Cork, Waterford, Limerick, Dundalk, Sligo, Donegal (the traditional areas) would probably be the easiest remedy, but you just cannot discount clubs that have been mainstays of the LOI, or supporters of those clubs, when those clubs have not done anything wrong so to speak.
UCD is a prime example. As a club that could grow to be a Rovers or a Dundalk, it's never going to happen, but they are well run, get on with their business and develop players, so why should they lose out.

Someone above made the point about co-habiting supporters in England. I've seen this first hand with a club called Eastbourne Borough. They're a 7th tier side with a tidy little ground and a social club, yet you would be hard-pressed to ever hear someone around the town call themselves a Boro' fan. It's all London clubs, Liverpool (weirdly) or Brighton.

The medicine is going to be very hard to swallow in the coming seasons for Irish football.

[mcgonigle]

Looks like the SPL were listening in!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33594354

[Nesta99]

Every cent matters bit 1.5million over 3 years split across 42 clubs is roughly 36k each or 12k per year. Its a pretty mediocre deal and I'd have thought SPL would command double that easily. It is certainly a way to go if the FAI would push in that direction. They should seek some guidance from their Scottish counterparts.

Actually now that ive read the article in total as part of a 20mil overall deal seems more like it.

[outspoken]

Didn't the Irish league do a deal with an online betting company recently to live stream games? Surely this is a very simple thing for the FAI to set up. This is why in my opinion the league should be running itself. It's time we left the FAI to focus on their darling national team and the aviva debt, we could achieve so much more on our own.

[Nesta99]

Do you remember when the league was run by itself?

[gufcfan]

Didn't the Irish league do a deal with an online betting company recently to live stream games? Surely this is a very simple thing for the FAI to set up. This is why in my opinion the league should be running itself. It's time we left the FAI to focus on their darling national team and the aviva debt, we could achieve so much more on our own.

A higher up in an overseas company I worked for told me how suspicious and unwilling to engage the FAI were when they tried to do some business with them. It would have been mutually beneficial. The same company (at the time at least), had deals with some huge leagues.

[outspoken]

Do you remember when the league was run by itself?

It was during a time when the country totally lost the run of itself I feel this time round and now we've seen the alternative (FAI) we'd be in a much better position. What's needed really is a independent and separate body to run the league just like in England but that's never going to happen so we only have the 2 options

[Nesta99]

I get what you are saying and maybe the league now would do a better job than previously. It would require total co-operation among all the clubs, it's tough to get egos to work together within one club, Bray being the current example. The league was running itself also long prior to the land boom and it wasnt a pretty picture then either. To fund full-time administrators etc wouldnt be without cost to each club. When Dundalk win the Champions League this season we will lead the break away!!

[PartySaint]

I don't like the idea of no promotion or relegation at all but it could work in terms of sustainability for clubs but the league prize money would need to be raised and the league fee's lowered.

If you take Galway as an example, if they knew that they weren't going to get relegated and were getting half decent prize money at the end of the season they could practically go amateur, not pay players, get the club on a good foundation then start building a team with the prize money they've built up over 2 or 3 years and make a push for Europe. Clubs would be a lot more stable and it could be good for competition in the league