Champions League 2015/6

[DeLorean]

I think I'll always have a bit of a black mark against him for the way he froze out our Wesley! To be fair, I'm sure it was nothing personal and he was only doing what he thought was best for Norwich, but I think he was poor management in any case.

I saw an hour of the game last night in total as I missed fifteen minutes either side of half time. I suspect Chelsea must have been good during this period because they were completely outplayed in the hour that I saw, bar the header from Costa that was miraculously saved. I'd take PSG far more seriously than I did last season I think, obviously Di Maria is a huge addition but they're just another year down the road in terms of development, in a similar way to Juve last season or Inter Milan in Mourinho's final year. I'd give them a decent chance against anybody now. They were very impressive last night and I'll be surprised if they don't finish the job at Stamford Bridge. Cavani looked like a man with a point to prove when he came on as well.

I'm really looking forward to the Juventus-Bayern tie.

[DeLorean]

Two lovely goals from Draxler last night for Wolsfburg. He seemed to claim the match ball afterwards as well, not sure it works that way Julian! Didi Hamman was saying that De Bruyne, who Draxler replaced at the start of the season, is further on in his development but that Draxler has the potential to be as good if he can find a bit more consistency. He was excellent the night they knocked Manchester United out as well. Arsenal had been heavily linked with him for a long time when he was playing for Schalke, not sure why it didn't end up happening. Wolfsburg in a precarious position as a result of the Volkswagen emissions scandal, it's scary how reliant the city as a whole is on one company. A basic but interesting piece on it here. (http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/12/volkswagens-home-city-wolfsburg-enveloped-in-fear-anger-and-disbelief.html)

[OwlsFan]

Two lovely goals from Draxler last night for Wolsfburg. He seemed to claim the match ball afterwards as well, not sure it works that way Julian!

Since they must have at least 6 balls ready to throw in when the ball goes out of play, I am not sure about this keeping the ball business anyway since more than likely it wasn't the ball used for the goals.

I think the Volkswagen emission rumpus is now forgotten. Might have hit sales for a while but the Germans have a way of coming back from the ruins :)

[DeLorean]

I think the Volkswagen emission rumpus is now forgotten. Might have hit sales for a while but the Germans have a way of coming back from the ruins :)

If you're confident about that you should buy some VW shares while they're cheap :)

[OwlsFan]

If you're confident about that you should buy some VW shares while they're cheap :)

Thanks for the tip :) They seem to be slightly on the up again:

2393

[geysir]

I think I'll always have a bit of a black mark against him for the way he froze out our Wesley! To be fair, I'm sure it was nothing personal and he was only doing what he thought was best for Norwich, but I think he was poor management in any case.

I saw an hour of the game last night in total as I missed fifteen minutes either side of half time. I suspect Chelsea must have been good during this period because they were completely outplayed in the hour that I saw, bar the header from Costa that was miraculously saved. I'd take PSG far more seriously than I did last season I think, obviously Di Maria is a huge addition but they're just another year down the road in terms of development, in a similar way to Juve last season or Inter Milan in Mourinho's final year. I'd give them a decent chance against anybody now. They were very impressive last night and I'll be surprised if they don't finish the job at Stamford Bridge. Cavani looked like a man with a point to prove when he came on as well.

I'm really looking forward to the Juventus-Bayern tie.
Despite a perceptible dip in Zlatan's influence, I also think PSG are a more serious team than last season but the in house competitiveness of the french league has dipped.
My take is that PSG will improve in the 2nd leg.
Around April or so, Zlatan can break a leg.

[shizzle787]

The CL qualifying includes some teams that shouldn't be in the competition, and a reworking of the qualification process will lead to a better tournament.

First, the runners up of leagues ranked 10-15 do NOT belong in the CL. They are not champions, and they are not from big leagues, and most years they do not qualify for the group stage. I would assign them to the Europa League playoff round (there will be ample room for them when I change the CL qualification).

So in review, the access list:
Leagues 1-3: 4 teams
Leagues 4-6: 3 teams
Leagues 7-9: 2 teams
Leagues 10-54 (excluding Liechtenstein): 1 team

Automatic Group Stage Participants (26):
CL/EL winner
Champions (1-12)
Runners up (1-6)
3rd place (1-4)
4th place (1-3)

Qualifying (46 teams fighting for 6 spots):

Playoff Round (6 losers drop into EL group stage):
Champions (13)
3rd place (5-6)
9 winners from previous round

3rd Qualifying Round (9 losers drop into EL playoff round):
Champions (14-16)
Runners up (7-9)
12 winners from previous round

2nd Qualifying Round (losers are out of Europe):
Champions (17-27)
13 winners from previous round

1st Qualifying Round (losers are out of Europe):
Champions (28-54, excluding Liechtenstein)

The Europa League qualification will remain roughly the same.

[OwlsFan]

The CL qualifying includes some teams that shouldn't be in the competition, and a reworking of the qualification process will lead to a better tournament.

First, the runners up of leagues ranked 10-15 do NOT belong in the CL. They are not champions, and they are not from big leagues, and most years they do not qualify for the group stage. I would assign them to the Europa League playoff round (there will be ample room for them when I change the CL qualification).

So in review, the access list:
Leagues 1-3: 4 teams
Leagues 4-6: 3 teams
Leagues 7-9: 2 teams
Leagues 10-54 (excluding Liechtenstein): 1 team

Automatic Group Stage Participants (26):
CL/EL winner
Champions (1-12)
Runners up (1-6)
3rd place (1-4)
4th place (1-3)

Qualifying (46 teams fighting for 6 spots):

Playoff Round (6 losers drop into EL group stage):
Champions (13)
3rd place (5-6)
9 winners from previous round

3rd Qualifying Round (9 losers drop into EL playoff round):
Champions (14-16)
Runners up (7-9)
12 winners from previous round

2nd Qualifying Round (losers are out of Europe):
Champions (17-27)
13 winners from previous round

1st Qualifying Round (losers are out of Europe):
Champions (28-54, excluding Liechtenstein)

The Europa League qualification will remain roughly the same.


My head aches :)

I see they are thinking of making winning the FA Cup as guaranteeing a CL place in England. Good idea.

[geysir]

Impressive Bayern are chomping at the bit in Turin, meanwhile Barca are taking life easy at Arsenal.
I hope these two teams meet this year.

[OwlsFan]

What I can never understand is why Arsenal can't keep the ball against Barca like they do against most other sides. If Barca play a pressing game so well, why don't the other teams do the same against Arsenal (favourites to win the EPL and yet always are second best Barca). Do you have to be extremely skilled footballers to play the pressing game ? Surely not.

Answers on a postcard please to bemused of foot.ie

[DeLorean]

Impressive Bayern are chomping at the bit in Turin, meanwhile Barca are taking life easy at Arsenal.
I hope these two teams meet this year.

The last two times they met it was fairly one sided, or at least pretty much over after the 1st Leg. The fact that each team have been capable of ending the tie so quickly might add to the intrigue, but I think Bayern have gone backwards under the infallible Pep.

Juventus butchered their own chances last night with their inexplicably cagey first half performance, they were tactically all over the place and made it very easy for Bayern, who obviously deserve some credit for knocking the ball around well. I was expecting Juve to approach the game in the same way they did in the 1st Leg of last year's semi final against Real Madrid. That night they seemed willing to accept the fact that they would be open to the counter attack but really started the game on the front foot, they were aggressive but disciplined and purposeful. It was in complete contrast to their first half approach last night, where they just sat back and invited wave after wave of Bayern pressure and were never likely to hold out, especially without Chiellini.

They started with a 4-4-2 which played into Bayern's hands also as they could do what they wanted in the midfield sector. Mandzukic seemed to get a Jonathan Walters type task of helping out defensively down Juve's left when Bayern had possession (which was most of the time) so it left Dybala totally isolated and visibly frustrated up front. Bayern looked borderline shambolic at the back at times when Juve threw caution to the wind in the second half, I wouldn't take them too seriously as contenders.

[DeLorean]

What I can never understand is why Arsenal can't keep the ball against Barca like they do against most other sides. If Barca play a pressing game so well, why don't the other teams do the same against Arsenal (favourites to win the EPL and yet always are second best Barca). Do you have to be extremely skilled footballers to play the pressing game ? Surely not.

Answers on a postcard please to bemused of foot.ie

I suppose most teams are capable of playing the pressing game but it might not always be the best tactic if you struggle to do anything with the ball once you win it. You could leave yourself open when Arsenal win it back themselves, that's probably why most teams just sit deep and try to frustrate them. Southampton had a lot of joy against them with a pressing game over Christmas and I remember Everton really getting in their faces and winning 3-0 a couple of years back. Liverpool tanked them that same season when they were motoring well with a high pressing game under Rodgers. It has worked but it takes a decent side on top of their game to execute it properly and managers (of the lesser sides particularly) will almost invariably choose the more cautious approach.

[geysir]

The last two times they met it was fairly one sided, or at least pretty much over after the 1st Leg. The fact that each team have been capable of ending the tie so quickly might add to the intrigue, but I think Bayern have gone backwards under the infallible Pep.

Juventus butchered their own chances last night with their inexplicably cagey first half performance, they were tactically all over the place and made it very easy for Bayern, who obviously deserve some credit for knocking the ball around well. I was expecting Juve to approach the game in the same way they did in the 1st Leg of last year's semi final against Real Madrid. That night they seemed willing to accept the fact that they would be open to the counter attack but really started the game on the front foot, they were aggressive but disciplined and purposeful. It was in complete contrast to their first half approach last night, where they just sat back and invited wave after wave of Bayern pressure and were never likely to hold out, especially without Chiellini.

They started with a 4-4-2 which played into Bayern's hands also as they could do what they wanted in the midfield sector. Mandzukic seemed to get a Jonathan Walters type task of helping out defensively down Juve's left when Bayern had possession (which was most of the time) so it left Dybala totally isolated and visibly frustrated up front. Bayern looked borderline shambolic at the back at times when Juve threw caution to the wind in the second half, I wouldn't take them too seriously as contenders.
Did you lose money on the game?:)
Both teams were missing serious players. Bayern were missing 2 CHs Batstuber and Boateng (plus the reserve CH). Both teams started the game at a pelter, my reading of it was that Bayern came out the better of the two, took total control after 15 mins, forced Juve all the way back. They managed to strangle the life out of Juve until the 70th minute. I would take Bayern serious.
Juve finally managed to come off the ropes, Kimmich (a stand in CH) makes a bad mistake and Juve were back in with a shout.
When Juve changed their approach and went wide, they made hay down the right wing and instead of losing 3 nil they could have ended the game by grabbing a worthy winner.
That's why we/some love this CL.

[DeLorean]

No bets, I was just hoping for and expecting a different kind of contest. It ended up being entertaining obviously but I expected much more from Juventus in the first half, they're not as inferior as they contributed to making themselves look I don't think. Bayern definitely took control after 10/15 minutes but I think they were allowed to take control to a certain extent, almost as much as forcing Juve all the way back. There was very little attempt made to put pressure on the ball from the home side.

I know both teams were missing players but we've seen this before with Bayern. They don't seem to be able to stem the tide when their opponents have their spell. A 0-1 aggregate deficit became 0-4 against Real Madrid in the blink of an eye two years ago. Last season they looked strong at the Nou Camp until they conceded and then bang, 1-0 becomes 3-0 in no time and the tie is dead. Again in the second leg they conceded twice in fifteen minutes after giving themselves some hope early on. Even against Manchester City they managed to turn a 2-1 win into a 3-2 defeat in the last five minutes, granted they had already topped the group. The best teams just manage these periods better and they don't have anything that sets them apart from all the others.

Clearly they're still in the top four or five teams in the competition but I think things would have to fall into place for them to win it, like somebody else taking out Barcelona for example. When I say I don't take them seriously it's relative to their standing as probably second favourites, I don't think it's really justified and personally I wouldn't touch them with your króna. :)

[bennocelt]

Did you lose money on the game?:)
Both teams were missing serious players. Bayern were missing 2 CHs Batstuber and Boateng

Really, he is like a big hole in defence:D

[geysir]

I haven't seen much of Boateng since WC 2014, where he was very good and impressed.

I thought PSV were a welcome surprise last night, a very tidy organised team and tough, out-toughing Atletico. To the end they were still raring to go even though down to 10. The 2nd leg should be of interest.

[geysir]

I don't think it's really justified and personally I wouldn't touch them with your króna. :)
Not even from my cold dead hands could my krona be freed.

I see your point, but more so in the context of the betting odds, where there is a biggish gap between Bayern @ 3/1 and 3rd place RM @ 11/2
and those odds are offered where Bayern still have work to do and RM are virtually home and hosed in the last 8 after impressing in Italy against an inform Roma.
Presumably Bayern's odds would become even warmer should they overcome Juve and it remains to be seen if they are deserved of that.

[geysir]

Ref says Man U player Lingard dives in the box and gives him a yellow card.
Fortunately for us viewers watching the game on stream quality video, Michael Owen is the co-commentator and could inform us after almost instant deliberation, with guru like wisdom, that the Man U player hurdled the outstretched leg and then fell. Michael said you can't do that (as in it's a no no in the diver's handbook). What Lingard should have done was leave the leg in and let it drag to make contact with the outstretched leg.

Sad to say but the art of the perfect dive may be a dying spectacle.

[DeLorean]

Two trebles in a row is surely unprecedented?

[shizzle787]

It won't happen. No one has won the CL consecutively since Milan in 1990. Although this Barcelona is a great team, somehow it will fall apart (according to history). My gut feeling is that they will fall apart BEFORE the final. I feel the Bayern/Juve winner will run into Barca before the final and beat them.

[geysir]

It won't happen. No one has won the CL consecutively since Milan in 1990. Although this Barcelona is a great team, somehow it will fall apart (according to history). My gut feeling is that they will fall apart BEFORE the final. I feel the Bayern/Juve winner will run into Barca before the final and beat them.
Welcome shizzle. Gut feeling is a cherished and valued phenomenon on this board.

[DeLorean]

I have a similar gut feeling. Maybe it's more hope than expectation, I'm not sure. I think it might be the final that they're caught though, as they'll be very difficult to outscore over two legs. I'd give the Madrid teams the best chance against them, followed by Juve and maybe PSG.

[geysir]

I have a similar gut feeling. Maybe it's more hope than expectation, I'm not sure. I think it might be the final that they're caught though, as they'll be very difficult to outscore over two legs. I'd give the Madrid teams the best chance against them, followed by Juve and maybe PSG.
Hope 6 Expectation 2

[BonnieShels]

Hope I find, is always defeated in my case. See last year.

[geysir]

Hope exceeded expectation by a factor of 3 to 1, is what I think of Del's "More in hope than expectation"
In other words, not much real chance and the rest of the space filled out by hope.

[geysir]

By some quirk of whatever, an inform Roma should have got back into this CL tie, but the Madrid goalie was in superb form and able to make the saves.
Otherwise, a boring night for the CL.

[BonnieShels]

So a normal CL night.

It's all about the Europa League these days. Or so the BBC tell me.

[geysir]

A normal wednesday Cl, as in yet another epl club bites the Cl dust.
PSG were stretched to the pin off their collar for about 5 or 10 minutes.
The french boulevardiers are the dandy team of the CL.

[geysir]

Phillip Cocu has proved his mettle with PSV, not just a pretty face and a dapper dresser.

[DeLorean]

They say that goalkeepers can only make themselves heroes in a penalty shoot-out, well the two guys last night put that to the test. They were brutal, especially Oblak. It seemed the only way somebody could miss was by failing to hit the target and Narsingh eventually obliged. I only saw extra time but it seems the right team went through, with Atlético having 26 attempts on goal last night alone. Better for the competition too I think even if that is a bit elitist!

Juventus are without Marchisio and Dybala for tonight, and maybe Chiellini and Mandzukic too. Bayern were able to rest a couple of key men at the weekend too so everything is in their favour now really. RTÉ have chosen to show (the delicately poised!) Barcelona Arsenal game by the way. :rolleyes:

[geysir]

AM had the players with more talent and ability but Cocu won the tactical plaudits with the way he had PSV set up, quite a stunning performance from a dutch team... considering.

But any sympathy one might have for PSV can disappear as fast a burning euro note.
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2016/03/15/champions/1458058756_705557.html

[geysir]

Looks like Bayern are still resting their key players. Great stuff from Juve so far.

[BonnieShels]

The lads on Setanta are making out that these Italian lads are some sort of minnows about to have a "famous victory".

[geysir]

if only Pirlo was out there, Bayern would be pulped by now.
That was a bad mistake by the juve player to lose possession outside the box for Bayern's equaliser.

[BonnieShels]

Criminal from Evra.

There is nothing redeeming about Bayern. Nothing. Horrible team.

Lichsteiner should have buried this tie. As should have Morata around 70'.

[BonnieShels]

Obviously Pogba being fouled is fine. This last 8 is going to be heart breaking. Only Atletico left to soothe the soul.

[BonnieShels]

Thiago should've gone there. And Juve get a throw. Mother of...

[geysir]

Huge anti climax in Munich.

Bonnie, you always have the EL.

[BonnieShels]

I do? That's the one with more than one English club in it right?

No chance of watching Dortmund tonight though.

[geysir]

I thought you were a certified dortmund fanboy.
Perhaps it's a seasonal thing?

[DeLorean]

Some average enough sides remain but it was always going to be that way after the last 16 pairings were made... Benfica, Wolfsburg and Manchester City in particular. If these three avoid each other I think we'll have three fairly predictable quarter finals. Juventus were unlucky but overall they can only blame themselves, not topping their group given they beat Manchester City twice was borderline criminal, but reflective of their sloppy early season domestic form. Sitting so deep in the first leg until they needed to chase the game was the wrong move also, I think their first half performance last night emphasised this even further. A gallant effort all the same given their injuries and the position they found themselves in the first leg.

[geysir]

Are Juve blaming anyone? It's more likely they are taking responsibility for their shortcomings and can appreciate their honest efforts over the 2 legs which made this a contest of epic proportions. Allegri said as much in the post match interviews, didn't mention the injured players or their goal being disallowed, unlike Wenger or Jose or Fergie or a host of other managers with less class than Allegri. Exhaustion got to them in the end, the Bayern subs added so much to their efforts, Juve's subs didn't have that impact. I thought Evra had a very good game but was running on fumes in the end, legless.

[DeLorean]

Are Juve blaming anyone?

Not what I was implying at all, more speaking as a general frustration of how much easier they could have made it for themselves. Agree re-substitituons, I suppose Juve's were made with a 2-0 lead in mind though whereas Bayern needed game changers.

[DeLorean]

Champions League quarter-final draw...

Wolfsburg (Germany) v Real Madrid (Spain)

Bayern Munich (Germany) v Benfica (Portugal)

Barcelona (Spain) v Atletico Madrid (Spain)

Paris St-Germain (France) v Manchester City (England)

The quarter-finals will take place on 5-6 April and 12-13 April.

As someone on Twitter said, it couldn't have been more seeded if it was seeded :)

[BonnieShels]

I thought you were a certified dortmund fanboy.
Perhaps it's a seasonal thing?

YEah it is seasonal. From August to May.

But more in reference to the difficulty watching anything in my other half's house given the technologies present rather than my lack of will to.


Champions League quarter-final draw...

Wolfsburg (Germany) v Real Madrid (Spain)

Bayern Munich (Germany) v Benfica (Portugal)

Barcelona (Spain) v Atletico Madrid (Spain)

Paris St-Germain (France) v Manchester City (England)

The quarter-finals will take place on 5-6 April and 12-13 April.

As someone on Twitter said, it couldn't have been more seeded if it was seeded :)

I had a similar thought myself. I wan't even surprised when I saw the draw on clicking into the Grauniad app.

So in an ideal world we will have Benfica v Wolfsburg and PSG v Atletico...

[geysir]

Good news that the two top games, Barca v AM and PSG v MC are on different nights.

[Charlie Darwin]

PSG v MC is probably only a top game by default. PSG and Bayern will win easily. Wolfsburg-Real may turn out to be the best game of the lot.

[geysir]

Wolfsburg might put it up to RM but I seriously doubt it. In the Bundesliga there's a big gap in quality between Bayern and Dortmund and then Dortmund are a county mile ahead of the rest. Wolfsburg are much more likely to be hammered by Madrid.
PSG v MC is an attractive tie on merit. Pellegrini has form in these situations.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Roma and last year's Schalke are a similar level to Wolfsburg and they put it up to Real, Schalke in particular. You're right in that Wolfsburg are probably way too loose and defensively suspect, which even a misfiring Real will pick off, but they have the capacity to score enough to keep it interesting. PSG v Man City, as with all games involving Man City, will be puke to watch.

[DeLorean]

Real Madrid will be as good a through after the 1st Leg I think.

I'd be surprised if PSG weren't well on their way by half time in the 2nd Leg. Pellegrini has been tactically inept in a lot of big games in his time at Manchester City. PSG are just better at the moment anyway. I'm not sure why you say Man. City are puke to watch though Charlie? If anything they're too open which can lead to decent spectacles? Not that I enjoy watching them too much myself, having said that.

I think Benfica could be competitive enough against Bayern but you'd have to fancy Bayern to have enough over two legs. It might have actually been better for Benfica to have the home leg first though I feel, giving themselves a better chance of having something to hang on to. Then again, Basel and Porto both took very positive 1st Leg results to Munich in recent seasons but were ripped apart in the 2nd Legs.

Atletico really need to stay in the tie at the Nou Camp, avoid a two goal plus defeat and it's really game on for the 2nd Leg, but Barcelona seem to beat beating them fairly regularly in the last year or two.

Edit- came across this (http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/35825777) shortly after posting. Possibly answers the question I asked CD to some extent. I was thinking more generally over the past few years really.