How many irish players would get into English Squad/First eleven... [Archive]

Peadar

08/12/2004, 11:09 AM

First eleven:
Carr

No a hope in hell!
He'd be pushing it to make the squad.

Squad:
Robbie Keane ?
Cunningham ?
Kiely
O'Shea?

Are you completely nuts!?
None of those players would make the England squad.
Defoe would be ahead of Keane.
They have centre-halves coming out their ears.
Robinson and Green are better than Kiely and John O'Shea is more suitable to the Scotland national team!

Stuttgart88

08/12/2004, 11:16 AM

Here's an article from Monday's Times entitled "England Facing Crisis". It comments on England's lack of striker options.

They don't know how lucky they are!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,27-1390561,00.html

barglee

08/12/2004, 11:22 AM

No a hope in hell!
He'd be pushing it to make the squad.

Carr is ten times better than Neville or any other English right back.....
come on look who have played right back for england in recent times...

Are you completely nuts!?
None of those players would make the England squad.
Defoe would be ahead of Keane.
They have centre-halves coming out their ears.
Robinson and Green are better than Kiely and John O'Shea is more suitable to the Scotland national team!

Ok Defoe would be ahead of Robbie but ive seen Smith/Vassell in England squad and Robbie is as good as them. Also i reckon if robbie was english he'd have been as hyped up as rooney or owen and might have had a different career.

Kiley would definetely make the squad ahead of Green.....

Jonno wud prob make the squad becaue he plays for Man U !

Hibs4Ever

08/12/2004, 11:24 AM

TEAM: Given
Duff
Kilbane

Risteard

08/12/2004, 11:32 AM

Team
Given
Duff
Keane

Rest of Squad
Andy Reid
Robbie Keane
Stephen Carr.

Its not too impressive.
But somehow i'd still fancy us to beat England if we played them today.
They're very disorganised and Kerr gets the most out of everyone.

Stuttgart88

08/12/2004, 11:33 AM

I actually rate Robert Green. It's Robinson who's way over-hyped, though in fairness to the Brits, they're as desperate for a quality 'keeper as we are for a quality goal scorer or left-back.

Have you ever noticed how many times he spills the ball back into dangerous positions instead of pushing the ball wide? I'm not a fan of Robinson at all. He does the flash stuff well but like James he's not a tournament winning goalkeeper. Thank God!

Kingdom

08/12/2004, 11:34 AM

TEAM: Given
Duff
Kilbane

Phew!!! Thank God someone else put up Kilbane's name!!!
Given
Kiely
Carr
Keane
Kilbane
Duff

barglee

08/12/2004, 11:36 AM

Team

Rest of Squad
Andy Reid

I wouldnt think so.
when the last time a division one player has made an english squad......

Kingdom

08/12/2004, 11:43 AM

I wouldnt think so.
when the last time a division one player has made an english squad......

I'd imagine it was last season when Robert Green was picked.....

Apart from that probably before the Premiership started ....... ;)

Stuttgart88

08/12/2004, 11:45 AM

I think Risteard is spot on.

In fact I only reckon that Given & Duff would make the team and Andy Reid wouldn't make their squad. Maybe if he was English he'd have got a move already though, and so on...

They've dozens of players who'd get in ahead of our guys in most positions.

What we have that they don't is real width, balance, ball retention and tempo(when we play well), better organisation on the pitch & a 'keeper consistent enough to play well through a tournament. We also have humility - none of our guys thinks he's a galactico just because he plays in the PL or wherever.

wws

08/12/2004, 11:48 AM

stupid thread

why would they want to play for england? unless they were clinton morrisson....

Kingdom

08/12/2004, 11:49 AM

.We also have humility - none of our guys thinks he's a galactico just because he plays in the PL or wherever.

Some of them do , but not all of them.......

Risteard

08/12/2004, 12:22 PM

I'd imagine it was last season when Robert Green was picked.....

Apart from that probably before the Premiership started ....... ;)
Nah.
Kevin Philips before Sunderland came up.
Or maybe Defoe after West Ham went down. ???

drinkfeckarse

08/12/2004, 12:40 PM

Are taking the mickey with Kilbane!!??? :eek:

Fair enough he's done well for us the last few games when he's played in the middle but c'mon lads get a grip :D :D

Given and Duff would be the only ones to make the starting eleven IMO. Keane obviously in the past but not now.

I think Carr would make the squad alright regularly and occasionally Robbie...if they were English of course.

KR's Post

08/12/2004, 12:56 PM

I'd imagine it was last season when Robert Green was picked.....

Apart from that probably before the Premiership started ....... ;)
That is correct. He didn't play though. But wasn't walker a first div player with leicster when he got a call.... Correct me if im wrong ;)

gustavo

08/12/2004, 1:11 PM

lads why are ye always comparing us to england. its a big inferiority complex if you ask me. i wonder if on some english national team forum they are going "how many of our squad would get in the ireland team?" i dont think so!
anyway for the record i think just shay given and damien duff would make their team .

M@ttitude

08/12/2004, 1:36 PM

Ask yourself how many French or Spanish players would get onto the English team/Squad... You'd have trouble because were brainwashed by tabloids, commentators or any English punter! England are gick! :p ha ha

gustavo

08/12/2004, 2:15 PM

i wouldnt go that far they have plenty of good players but they cant seem to gel together with any cohesiveness .

harps1954

08/12/2004, 3:17 PM

when the last time a division one player has made an english squad......

David James was actually England's first choice keeper while playing for West Ham in the First Division, before Man City signed him midway through the season. Can't remember any outfield player from the First Division though who has been in the squad since Steve Bull in his Wolves days.

Stuttgart88

08/12/2004, 3:27 PM

It hardly counts but that guy Michael Dawson at Forest was called up for one game, just for experience I think.

Karlos

08/12/2004, 3:29 PM

I think Duff and Kilbane would make the squad for their ability on the left with Duff starting. Roy Keane would make the squad but on current form I wouldn't put him ahead of Gerrard & Lampard, perhaps you could move Gerrard to the right to accomodate him but think both deserve their place in the team. Keane of 3 years ago would have made it though. I think Given is a better keeper than Robinson or Green. As much as I dislike Neville, I think he's a good pro and has proven himself at club and international level. Carr would make the squad however. I wouldn't think robbie would make the squad ahead of Owen, Rooney or Defoe.

Dublin12

08/12/2004, 3:34 PM

England have the players alright but they don't seem to have the same spirit and pride about them as our own team.I think they're are too many cliques in the England squad plus they have a 5hite manager who hasn't got the balls to call the shots when it matters most,I would say they'd have a chance of winning the world cup if Mourinho was in charge,god forbid :eek: ,especially as he seems to get the most out of the players.I still think we'd do them though whoever they have as their manager :D .

tiktok

08/12/2004, 4:06 PM

Duff and Given. Full stop.

Carr is nowhere near as good a right-full as Gary Neville btw.
Just because Eriksson picks Heskey doesn't mean that Keane is better then Beattie, Alan Smith and Andy Johnston either. ;)

Paulie

08/12/2004, 4:44 PM

Surprising that nobody has mentioned Finnan yet. He was very highly rated when he played for Fulham and while his career started poorly at Liverpool I think that he's really turned things around this season. I certainly rate him over Neville or Stephen Carr for that matter (although in Carr's case if he could just find his form from 2000-2001 there wouldn't be a full back in the premiership to touch him)

eirebhoy

08/12/2004, 4:50 PM

Duff and Given. Full stop.
Roy Keane of course. He is a better holding midfielder than Butt.

Cowboy

08/12/2004, 6:32 PM

lads why are ye always comparing us to england. its a big inferiority complex if you ask me. i wonder if on some english national team forum they are going "how many of our squad would get in the ireland team?" i dont think so!

I agree, what exactly is the purpose of this discussion?

sylvo

09/12/2004, 12:03 AM

Is Inguuurlunnd not a team who last beat us in a friendly in 1985 nearly twenty years ago, and the last time they beat us in a group match of a senior international was in 1979 (correct me if i'm wrong), so why would we want to use them as a benchmark.

If you want to use teams as a benchmark may as well say how many of our players would get into the Swiss team seeing we've played them three times in two years and have not beat them in any of those games, but maybe not seeing that none of the country buy's into the Swiss media on a day to day basis so don't feel that Ireland is a district of Basel, Berne or Zurich in the same way that so many people go along with the slave mentality towards Ingurrlunnnd and their media's self appionted football master race. :rolleyes:

sylvo

09/12/2004, 8:52 AM

But seeing as the Swiss League isn't beamed into our sitting rooms and pubs 24/7, and very few Irish kids will say that their favourite team is Basel, and Switzerland didn't occupy this country for 800 years, I suspect that comparisons between our team and England's will be more common than what might be a better comparison from a purely footballing perspective...

In that case, Italian and Spanish football gets beamed into Irish homes 24/7 and their better national teams why not check the comparison's between them and us, or even Brazil a team who we drew with this year and can watch their national team also on tv how about making comparisons to them instead of being so obsessed with some over hyped team who last beat us nearly twenty years ago
I'd be more interested in comparison's to France seeing that their the main team in our group then worrying about teams that are'nt, if Inggguuurluund were to get drawn against us I then might bother to take time to think about them until then I can't see the point in worrying about them and don't one bit understand this showing of an inferiority complex to them.

sylvo

09/12/2004, 10:50 AM

ya i see both points here. it is a sort of an inferiority complex, but in soccer the one team we always would want to beat is england, that too then must a slight case of an inferiority complex also, along with beating hte bastids because of 800 years of oppression.

There is no harm in comparing teams, but wondering who would get on anothers team is stupid, i have to agree with sly vo on this.

how are they all up in cyprus hill sylvo?? i was eating there in a lovely italian 852 green lanes at the weekend, expensive but lovely place.

I know what yer mean about having a little smile on yer face when they lose, and some of the reasons why that is, but what i'll never understand Pronane is all these people that are so obsessed about them and their so called greatness that they become more obsessed about them then they do about the Ireland team and who we are playing and what our results are.

I mean for example two fella's sitting behind me at the Brazil game legged it at about the 80th minute so that they could get down to a pub in time for the start of inguurluuund v Portugal. I mean we were only playing the world champions in our game and giving them a good game as well, or when I was sitting in a bar in Basel after the Swiss game when they beat us 2-0 and finished us going to Euro 2004, I could'nt belive the amount of happy face's walking up to me asking us did I know were there was a pub showing the inguurluuund game. The game when we beat Holland 1-0 and yet as soon as the final whistle went there was people doing a runner to get to a pub to watch them playing Germany instead of savouring a great result of our own and one of the best apmosphere's we've had at Landsdowne in a lot of years.

Anyway, things are not to bad in Cyprus Hill, I know indeed the place where you were at the weekend and I bet there was an empty pocket the next morning, but it is nice though.

NY Hoop

09/12/2004, 11:13 AM

Stuttgart88

09/12/2004, 11:33 AM

After the Dutch game in '01 we were in Bellamy's in Ballsbridge drinking our heads off and, quite unapologetically, watching Germany vs England. Hoping for a German win I might add.

Anyway, there were 5 lads in Ireland shirts cheering their heads off everytime England scored. They were singing all the Liverpool songs and were obviously cheering England because of the Liverpool contingent. The 5 goals all came from 'pool players.

We couldn't believe it. Needless to say they got some pretty strange looks.

I usually try and watch the more important England games. I have a very keen interest in seeing them lose, that's why.

I actually think it's interesting to contemplate how many of our players would get in their team. It's by no means showing any inferiority complex - I certainly don't have one. It's just that we know their players and league so well and they're the most high-profile international team in this part of the world, rightly or wrongly.

It's a useful thread because it highlights that despite the sum of the parts being greater in England's case, we'd be confident of beating them for other reasons. It's those other reasons I find interesting.

I accept that comparing us against France man for man would be interesting too, but not really Switzerland as most of us couldn't tell you anything about half their players.

Stuttgart88

09/12/2004, 12:54 PM

I had thought that comparing us against them man-for-man was pretty much the same as asking who'd get in their team. I don't see how it's a different point altogether.

I used to wince every time Roy Race scored for England in Roy of the Rovers. As a 7 year old I used to have a rabid hatred of my mate's England subbuteo team. This was long before I ever had a clue about politics or history. I just used to hate the way the Brits kept going on about how good they were, yet they never seemed to get anywhere. That's why I like seeing them lose, or certianly how I started.

The reason I think it's useful to compare our players with theirs is, as I said above, is that they're the most high-profile comparison for us.

I'd also be interested to see how we stack up man-for-man agaist a load of other teams. For example, why do Sweden & Denmark usually qualify with more ease than we do? Better players, or better tactics etc? Why did Belgium give Brazil the fright of their lives in Japan yet a high-profile England team were contained easily by 10 men 4 days later?

Schumi

09/12/2004, 12:57 PM

I just used to hate the way the Brits kept going on about how good they were, yet they never seemed to get anywhere.I always found that to be amusing. :D

crc

10/12/2004, 9:50 PM

Its completely paradoxical (or maybe it isn't), but even though I have lots of great English friends, and actually enjoy visiting the place from time to time,

I love it when England lose, in any code, and especially to Ireland.

I was too young to remember Euro '88, and the other matches since have been draws (or riots after we go 1-0 up), but I do remember some of the 6-nations victories and there are few better feelings than that.

Other memories from football are:
1. San Marino scoring the fastest goal ever against England in '93.
2. England not qualifying for '94
3. Luis Figo's awesome goal in Euro 2000
4. England being knocked out of Euro 2000
5. England being knocked out on penalties (again, and again)
6. England leading 1-0 against France at Euro 2004, until Zidane wipes the smug grin right off their face with two goals in stoppage time.
7. Niall Quinn's delicate side-foot past Seaman at Wembley in 1991

Actually, no.6 is my favourite of the ones that don't feature Ireland. I'm probably missing loads, but these are the ones that spring to mind. Just thinking about all those moments makes me happy :)

JoeSemi

10/12/2004, 11:06 PM

Team
Given
Duff
Keane

Rest of Squad
Andy Reid
Robbie Keane
Stephen Carr.

I'd give you Given and Duff Richard but Roy Keane :confused:
Don't tell me Roy Keane would get into an England midfield ahead of Gerrard or Lampard? Two of the best midfielders in Europe(and the world) at the moment and an ageing footballer who never had, or will have, the ability of either of the other two. You need to start watching a bit more footie i think ;)

1MickCollins

11/12/2004, 12:34 AM

sylvo

11/12/2004, 1:07 PM

What is the point of this thread? OK so England has better strength in depth, but the sub-text of saying Roy Keane and Duff are good enough to play for England is that we are inferior to England. England haven't beaten us since the early 80s...

That's what i've been saying, you don't ever hear any of them worrying about how many of their players would get into other teams that are higher than them on the world rankings because they've got more confidence about themselves.
We should be worrying about our players getting to the world cup in Germany not about being second best to anyone and I don't care who they are.
You would have thought that in the Ireland of 2004 that people would have moved on and got a bit of confidence about themselves instead of being worried about England and how so called great they are.

Euro 88 1-0
Italia 90 0-0
Lansdowne and Wembley 1-1
Lansdowne 95 1-0 (they gave out caps for that match so the result stands in their eye's)

No games lost there.
Let them worry about us.

Condex

11/12/2004, 3:33 PM

What is the point of this thread? OK so England has better strength in depth, but the sub-text of saying Roy Keane and Duff are good enough to play for England is that we are inferior to England. England haven't beaten us since the early 80s...

And if I remember the early eighties and the Irish that played England, it was beaten before it got on to the park, such was the inferiority complex of the team in those days. It took Jack Charlton to instill a belief into the team that they could match anybody if they played to their strenghts.

lopez

11/12/2004, 4:13 PM

Anyone on this thread not yet born the last time the ****beat us?

Crc. Tut, tut, tut! You should be ashamed of yourself naughty boy. :D Actually I'm indifferent to the tans losing in other sports as I won't get it rammed down my throat for thirty-eight years (even their rugby win was not celebrated in the ghettos and as for Paula, I spotted some of the more jingoistic of my workmates saying 'Yeah?! We couldn't give a f*ck!' when the inevitable 'the whole nation will be on tenterhooks tonight' earlier this year). My favourite BTW is still number 2, but close up behind is number 4 as it was the first joint celebration with my son (nothing like father/son bonding, eh?) but it would have all paled into insignificance if Ray had shot home later in the game mentioned in number 7.

As for this thread, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: after that pile of sh*te in Madrid, how many of the **** would get into the Ireland team (football that is, not all-in wrestling)?