View Full Version : Release Garda Killers?
Far too level-headed and sensible for the majority on here. Most of them are barely-disguised partitionists who don't give two hoots about peace on this island and the quality of life for Dortie and the rest of the North's people. :(
KOH
there is not an irishman here that are partitionists halfwit this thread is not about the quality of life of people up in ulster
this about 4 scumbags who were freelancing to line their own pockets this is a fact and muredered 2 gardai in the process.
dortie sinn fein have been seen as your neccesary protectors up with ye for the last 30 yrs with due reason i accept that they were needed to a certain extent.
but the issue people have down here is that sinn/fein ira are commiting criminal activitys down here and getting away with it so they can be kept in the peace proccess this is unnaceptable to the 80% of people according to the media down here.
gerry adams is always talking about lisenting to the people and he wants a democratic ireland of equals well the majority of people dont what these criminal murders realeased so why is he not lisenting to us .
WeAreRovers
06/12/2004, 4:55 PM
[QUOTE=exile]there is not an irishman here that are partitionists halfwit this thread is not about the quality of life of people up in ulster
[QUOTE]
A man with your spelling and writing skills would be well served by not calling other people halfwits. :rolleyes:
KOH
[QUOTE=exile]there is not an irishman here that are partitionists halfwit this thread is not about the quality of life of people up in ulster
[QUOTE]
A man with your spelling and writing skills would be well served by not calling other people halfwits. :rolleyes:
KOH
your right my spelling is crap but a least im not blinded by the lies of scum fein but least i can distinguish between whats moraly right and what are a bunch of murderers no better than the highjackers of 9/11 who think its ok to flout our laws
if it bombs and murders like a terrorist then it is a terrorist so they should be dealt with accordingly and their supporters are just as guilty
It sounds like the DUP and Sinn Fein will come to agreement tonight.
Ian Paisley wants to be able to view pictures of the arms being destroyed which i think in all honesty is a quite legitimate request.Personally, I can't see it happening.
Paisley's request is neither reasonable nor fair.
He just wants to rub the Shinners noses, and by extension, a large section of the population, in the dirt.
Is he saying that De Chastelain is a liar, and his word can't be trusted?
I would be the first to decry the terrible things the IRA has done, but somehow presenting Paisley as a "democrat" who has the high moral ground almost sickens me as much as any IRA killing. That man and his cohort have been the most malignant force on the island for 50 years. They are utterly sectarian, totally bigoted and spread nothing but hate, fear and ignorance. What about Paisley's armed groups?
What about his organised hate campaigns against Catholics?
His pogroms?
Lets be honest here Eoin, this "deal", if it ever comes to pass, is between an organisation who directly murdered innocent people in the name of freedom and a "movement" who have poisoned and warped the minds of people so badly that they went out and murdered innocent people in the name of "defending" an apartheid, sectarian statelet.
Its a sorry pass that we have to look to the likes of these for peace....:mad:
Lets be honest here Eoin, this "deal", if it ever comes to pass, is between an organisation who directly murdered innocent people in the name of freedom and a "movement" who have poisoned and warped the minds of people so badly that they went out and murdered innocent people in the name of "defending" an apartheid, sectarian statelet.
Its a sorry pass that we have to look to the likes of these for peace....:mad:
I agree totally, Patsh. But, if it means that Paisley signs up to a deal then showing him some photographs is worth it.
It is noticable that nobody is suggesting that these photographs be shown to the public. I suppose the little man doesnt count.
I agree totally, Patsh. But, if it means that Paisley signs up to a deal then showing him some photographs is worth it.But is it really?
So you can show him some photos of an amount of guns, explosives etc being destroyed. But how does anyone know if this is all they have?
The whole idea of this is to trust the other side, some bit at least.
He wants a photgraph to use as propoganda and nothing else.
It can be filmed, video or anything else you want. All that proves is that a certain amount of weapons are being destroyed, its purely a symbolic thing, and as we know, symbols can be used and abused with terrible results up North.
It is noticable that nobody is suggesting that these photographs be shown to the public. I suppose the little man doesnt count.It's my understanding that he wants them published.
Rovers Fellow!
07/12/2004, 10:01 AM
Exactly, nobody knows for sure exactly how many weapons anyone has anyway. Some trust and risks have to be taken. Paisley just wants to humiliate republicans, him and his follwers still and always will see nationalist/republicans as below them. This decommisioning issue shouldnt even be an issue, as General De Chastelean, under the terms of the GFA was the man responsible with the decomissioning body to deal with this issue. They were satisfied with the 3 acts carried out by the IRA, but Paisley and even Trimble before him have decided they wanted it done theyre way, which completely undermines the GFA. It just deflects away from issues such as policing, demilitirisation and All Ireland bodies, and general equality for everyone, which have not been fully dealt with, these are the very reasons that the majority of republicans/nationalist and people in 26 counties voted for this agreement, and the brits have allowed the bigots of unionism use decommisioning as a way to delay and water down the GFA. Its a shame thats happened, but not surprising.
Dotsy
07/12/2004, 10:52 AM
Listening to Danny Morrison and others on the radio this morning it seems certain that there will be no deal done. The IRA are not going to agree to publishing any photos and the issue of releasing Garda McCabe's murderers will be parked. Whatever the rights and wrongs on either side I think people need to realise that the GFA is for all intents and purposes dead in the water. The DUP are not going to abide by it and since they are the biggest Unionist party I can't see what is achieved by continualy referring to it as if it still gospel. A deal is going to have to be done between the DUP and SInn Fein on terms acceptable to both parties. I have no idea when that will be but I suspect it won't be before Paisley is replaced as head of the DUP. What is also clear is that the governments have no plan B. They are not going to force through something over the heads of the two parties.
I personally don't think all the blame for this can be but on the DUP/Paisley, although it certainly suits Sinn Fein to protray it as such.
We already had the Good Friday Agreement which afaik the IRA were supposed to put an end to use of all their weapons. Why has this not happened? If committed to democratic means why need a store of weapons even if they old & of little use?
SF/IRA are the masters at media spin & now they so committed to destroying the weapons they are afraid of Paisley using the pics of them as propaganda. Give me a break! They can really only be using that as a bargaining trick. Heard yesterday that the killers only have 2 years left on sentence which makes their release even more ludicrous.
btw SF have 12-15% of the vote in whole island so have no right to dictate to anyone.
Anyone know if latest deal will mean the IRA will stop extorsion, smuggling, kneee caping, survellience on politicians or will there be a another final final deal for that?
IMO the IRA haven't had a political purpose for amny a year now & are just a bunch of organised criminals.
Fair_play_boy
07/12/2004, 12:42 PM
I personally don't think all the blame for this can be but on the DUP/Paisley, although it certainly suits Sinn Fein to protray it as such.I agree. To be fair to Paisley, he is representative of a certain type of nut in Ulster. If he is to achieve a workable settlement, he has to frame it in a way that appeases the hard men and women who are behind him. There is no point in him coming to the negotiation table with a position that would alienate him from those unionists who are every bit as racist as the 1960s white South African leadership.
Thinking about Paisley and his speech last Friday (the "swallow hard" one) it would be the ultimate irony in Northern politics if the final settlement happened on his watch. Of all the figures in Ulster unionism, one would have predicted hell freezing over before fingering him as the one to do the business. It must be really difficult for David Trimble to see his auld enemy taking the peace process into the last few moves of the endgame, knowing that it could have been achieved long before now if Paisley had not been such a bollicks.
Fair_play_boy
07/12/2004, 1:01 PM
This is quite a thread in a soccer forum! Most illuminating.
SF/IRA are the masters at media spin & now they so committed to destroying the weapons they are afraid of Paisley using the pics of them as propaganda.Dortie's point above about the peace process hanging by a thread probably explains this better than any other. From previous statements by the IRA, they protested that there has never been a precedent in history where an "undefeated army" had to surrender their weapons. Their agreement to destroy them was the compromise that followed, as there was probably less loss of face doing that. The Unionist demands for verification resulted in de Chastelain's involvement. In a province where symbolism is very strong, these were very carefully worked out moves, not to let either side have the experience of being humiliated by the other. In this context, IMO, the propaganda use of photographs of IRA weapons being destroyed is not on. As they risk failure to keep the hard liners onside, Sinn Fein are right to make this objection, IMO.
Heard yesterday that the killers only have 2 years left on sentence which makes their release even more ludicrous. . . . or less repugnant, whichever way you look at it.
Anyone know if latest deal will mean the IRA will stop extorsion, smuggling, kneee caping, survellience on politicians or will there be a another final final deal for that?
IMO the IRA haven't had a political purpose for amny a year now & are just a bunch of organised criminals.Sinn Fein will probably do very well in the elections, coming out of the traps after the peace process is completed. However, if they fail to deal quickly with former IRA members' involvement in organised crime, their public support will probably fall off pretty quickly. Mind you, it took Fianna Fail nearly 80 years to address that problem within their own ranks!
No way should they be released. Regardless of what anyone says I can't see how this murder is in any way shape or form connected with the Northern peace process.
They killed a Garda while robbing a post office in Limerick at a time when the IRA was supposedly on ceasefire, how can anyone justify relasing them? It's got nothing to do with the Good Friday agreement.
dortie
07/12/2004, 2:14 PM
dortie sinn fein have been seen as your neccesary protectors up with ye for the last 30 yrs with due reason i accept that they were needed to a certain extent.
but the issue people have down here is that sinn/fein ira are commiting criminal activitys down here and getting away with it so they can be kept in the peace proccess this is unnaceptable to the 80% of people according to the media down here.
gerry adams is always talking about lisenting to the people and he wants a democratic ireland of equals well the majority of people dont what these criminal murders realeased so why is he not lisenting to us .
I might be a republican but who said I supported Sinn Fein ?? Your actually very blind to the situation up here, so much so that its scary. The man you like to demonise.. Mr Adams is actually seen as too moderate for some people up here, so if your looking for a political end to the conflict in the North your best bet is to get behind him and his party.
dortie
07/12/2004, 2:23 PM
I personally don't think all the blame for this can be but on the DUP/Paisley, although it certainly suits Sinn Fein to protray it as such.
What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway, you come across as more Unionist than someone from the Sandy Row. But then again you probably vote FG, no difference in our eyes.
What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway, you come across as more Unionist than someone from the Sandy Row. But then again you probably vote FG, no difference in our eyes.
Because I don't think the whole blame can be levelled at the Unionists? From that you can deduce that I'm unionist or a FG voter? Fair enough.... :rolleyes:
barryk
07/12/2004, 2:38 PM
Dortie
It is people like you who will ensure that a united Ireland will never happen. People down south do not want you or your ilk. They voted for the good Friday in the hope that we will hear no more from you. And by the way I know all the history...I could teach you a thing or two
WeAreRovers
07/12/2004, 2:42 PM
btw SF have 12-15% of the vote in whole island so have no right to dictate to anyone.
And the PDs have how much? And those crypto-fascists are in government FFS.
Your whole ill-informed diatribe is worthy of the Sunday Independent and there is no worse insult from me.
The lack of knowledge and, even worse, lack of interest in the people of the 6 counties is very depressing. I can only imagine how Dortie feels when his fellow countrymen couldn't give a flying one about peace in the North but can get all worked up over ONE incident on the south.
KOH
WeAreRovers
07/12/2004, 2:44 PM
Dortie
It is people like you who will ensure that a united Ireland will never happen. People down south do not want you or your ilk. They voted for the good Friday in the hope that we will hear no more from you. And by the way I know all the history...I could teach you a thing or two
Jesu H Christ!!!!!!!! I wrote my last post before reading this gem. I voted for the GFA to bring peace and justice to everyone on this island. I thought that was the whole idea. I'm getting more depressed by the minute..... :(
KOH
Dortie
It is people like you who will ensure that a united Ireland will never happen. People down south do not want you or your ilk. They voted for the good Friday in the hope that we will hear no more from you. And by the way I know all the history...I could teach you a thing or twoAs one of the "People down south" I DO want to hear of Dortie and his "ilk". I voted for the GFA to hear lots more about "the North". As far as I am concerned the more I hear about a part of my country the better. What I want to hear a lot less of is this appalling partitionist mentality and the attitude that you, and people like you, are expounding, this bullsh*t that those who live in the six counties are "them" and not "us". Exactly what country do you come from barryk?
So the arguement seems to be agree with Dortie or else, WAR?
Look back on this thread, I supported the release - that didn't stop me from being accused of being a Unionist and knowing nothing, just because I don't think the Unionist are entirely to blame (as in, if the IRA had totally ceased activities there would be less ammunition for Paisley and Co to beat the peace process with).
Rovers Fellow!
07/12/2004, 3:05 PM
So the arguement seems to be agree with Dortie or else, WAR?
Look back on this thread, I supported the release - that didn't stop me from being accused of being a Unionist and knowing nothing, just because I don't think the Unionist are entirely to blame (as in, if the IRA had totally ceased activities there would be less ammunition for Paisley and Co to beat the peace process with).
It works both ways, if youre a republican, then youre automatically accused of being a terrorist, thug and nonsense like that. And no, the unionists arent entirely to blame, I suppose everyone has little share of blame, that includes both governments, but many unionists unwillingless to share power and look on nationalist population as eqauls and the brits ignorance of it is probably biggest reason, in fact its probably the biggest reason the troubles started in first place.
I might be a republican but who said I supported Sinn Fein ?? Your actually very blind to the situation up here, so much so that its scary. The man you like to demonise.. Mr Adams is actually seen as too moderate for some people up here, so if your looking for a political end to the conflict in the North your best bet is to get behind him and his party.
dortie i dont pretend to be an expert on ulster society the main issue i have with scum fein/ira is there CRIMINAL ACTIVITYS DOWN HERE
have you actual nothing to say about scum fein / ira commiting criminal activitys down here ?
Peadar
07/12/2004, 3:22 PM
What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway
Dortie, you're a much nicer chap when you're talking about football and your great bunch of supporters up there.
[QUOTE=Rovers Fellow!]. This decommisioning issue shouldnt even be an issue, QUOTE]
what planet are you from of course its an issue all guns should be taken out of irish politics, be it brit soilders in their watch towers, unionists paramilitarys
or the ira all these guns are weapons of destrucion
There was a 90% no response on TV3 to this thread topic this morning :eek:
Rovers Fellow!
07/12/2004, 3:35 PM
You might have taken me a bit out of context here. I know it should be an issue. What I meant is, it shouldnt be the one that is holding up progress all the time. A seperate neutral body was set up to deal with decommisioning. Unfortunately Paisley and Co have decided its not good enough for them and are using the issue to delay and stop power sharing from happening. They want it done theyre way in order to humiliate republicans.
what planet are you from of course its an issue all guns should be taken out of irish politics, be it brit soilders in their watch towers, unionists paramilitarys
or the ira all these guns are weapons of destrucion[/QUOTE]
Fair_play_boy
07/12/2004, 3:56 PM
. . . What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway . . . .
Dortie, you're a much nicer chap when you're talking about football and your great bunch of supporters up there.To be fair to Dortie, can anyone not from the North really say they know the situation there? What are our sources? How many of us know enough people from the Protestant and Catholic population, from different walks of life, to form anything like a good picture of life in the 6 counties?
And if we do not know the people, are we supposed to rely on the media for our information? From the few bits of first hand experience that I had of the North, the mainstream media portrayal of the issues in the North over the last 35 years was so biased it would make Noel Spillane look like an impeccable source of information. A friend working in RTE (who may have had a biased view himself, so I was cautious how I took his view) said that throughout the 70s and 80s the news room was heavily biased in favour of the unionists, and the majority were delighted with the broadcasting ban on Sinn Fein. I now believe that without knowing it, we in the South were fed a pro-partitionist line for decades, while we thought it was objective news reporting.
What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway, you come across as more Unionist than someone from the Sandy Row. But then again you probably vote FG, no difference in our eyes.
hmmm let me see voting for f.g a democratic party that accepts the will of the people that vote, or scum fein/ ira that murders tortures extorts money and treats the people who dont vote for them with contempt
thats a tough choice all right
dortie
07/12/2004, 5:50 PM
Dortie
It is people like you who will ensure that a united Ireland will never happen. People down south do not want you or your ilk. They voted for the good Friday in the hope that we will hear no more from you. And by the way I know all the history...I could teach you a thing or two
:rolleyes:
You sound like you know alot alright, let me guess your the type that would have spat on the leaders of 16 then called them patriots years later.
dortie
07/12/2004, 5:54 PM
As one of the "People down south" I DO want to hear of Dortie and his "ilk". I voted for the GFA to hear lots more about "the North". As far as I am concerned the more I hear about a part of my country the better. What I want to hear a lot less of is this appalling partitionist mentality and the attitude that you, and people like you, are expounding, this bullsh*t that those who live in the six counties are "them" and not "us". Exactly what country do you come from barryk?
I wouldnt worry about him, his likes have been about all through the history of Ireland. As much as he likes to believe I consider myself an Irish citizen and have a passport as proof, I couldnt care less what he thought about 'the likes of me'.
dortie
07/12/2004, 5:57 PM
dortie i dont pretend to be an expert on ulster society the main issue i have with scum fein/ira is there CRIMINAL ACTIVITYS DOWN HERE
have you actual nothing to say about scum fein / ira commiting criminal activitys down here ?
Actually I dont ! I dont consider them criminal at all.
Actually I dont ! I dont consider them criminal at all.
i want a united 32 county ireland but that statement..................
:mad: :( dortie that disgusts me
so you dont think murder torture banking robbing and little bit of genocide thrown for good measure is not criminal
ok tell that to the parents of jonathan bell and tim parry aged 11 and 13 yrs old who murdered by an ira bomb in warringinton
or how about 8yr old Kathryn Eakin. She was killed when a bomb exploded outside McElhinney's Pub Kathryn was struck by shrapnel as she helped out at her father's grocery shop.innocent children dortie
or the torture of a women who was dying of cancer.
how can you not say this is criminal are you seriously that stupid and ingnorant of inocent peoples suffering
have you no sense of what is right and wrong hitler murdered robbed and commited genocide too and he was considerd a criminal as where his henchmen and they were tried as such.
thatcher adams the whole f~~ckin lot of you people that think like that should be tried for crimes against humanity and hung
dortie you sicken me to think that these people are not crimnials
Fair_play_boy
07/12/2004, 9:48 PM
After some of the heavy posts in this thread, how are we going to go back and exchange opinions about events on the football pitch next spring? Anyway, back on topic, it seems that Ahern is rightly p!ssed off tonight with the behaviour of one party to the negotiations, and has hinted that everybody will probably withdraw whatever concessions they brought to the negotiation table unless the deal is finalised pronto. So the question of early release may not even come up, and Garda McCabe's killers will be released in two years anyway.
CollegeTillIDie
07/12/2004, 10:54 PM
i want a united 32 county ireland but that statement..................
:mad: :( dortie that disgusts me
so you dont think murder torture banking robbing and little bit of genocide thrown for good measure is not criminal
ok tell that to the parents of jonathan bell and tim parry aged 11 and 13 yrs old who murdered by an ira bomb in warringinton
or how about 8yr old Kathryn Eakin. She was killed when a bomb exploded outside McElhinney's Pub Kathryn was struck by shrapnel as she helped out at her father's grocery shop.innocent children dortie
or the torture of a women who was dying of cancer.
how can you not say this is criminal are you seriously that stupid and ingnorant of inocent peoples suffering
have you no sense of what is right and wrong hitler murdered robbed and commited genocide too and he was considerd a criminal as where his henchmen and they were tried as such.
thatcher adams the whole f~~ckin lot of you people that think like that should be tried for crimes against humanity and hung
dortie you sicken me to think that these people are not crimnials
While I would endorse most of the above, there were also atrocities perpetrated by UVF and or UDA with the assistance of the British Government's Dirty Tricks Department... I am thinking of the two bombs in Dublin in 1972 and 1973 , then the famous Dublin and Monaghan Bombings of 1974. Events for which nobody was ever arrested or charged or sentenced for. The survivors and the relatives of those killed deserve answers and the Irish government need to demand that those responsible , all of whom were British citizens in some shape or form , be tried for these crimes.
exile
08/12/2004, 12:51 AM
dont get me wrong those scumbags that bombed dublin and monaghan and murdered innocent catholics up the north are just has bad too they all should be tried like the war crimnals they are thatcher scum fein/ira uvf uda the whole f~~ckin lot of them
dortie
08/12/2004, 9:05 AM
ok tell that to the parents of jonathan bell and tim parry aged 11 and 13 yrs old who murdered by an ira bomb in warringinton
or how about 8yr old Kathryn Eakin. She was killed when a bomb exploded outside McElhinney's Pub Kathryn was struck by shrapnel as she helped out at her father's grocery shop.innocent children dortie
or the torture of a women who was dying of cancer.
how can you not say this is criminal are you seriously that stupid and ingnorant of inocent peoples suffering
have you no sense of what is right and wrong hitler murdered robbed and commited genocide too and he was considerd a criminal as where his henchmen and they were tried as such.
thatcher adams the whole f~~ckin lot of you people that think like that should be tried for crimes against humanity and hung
dortie you sicken me to think that these people are not crimnials
Just face reality boy, 55% of Catholics vote SF in the North, they dont consider them criminal. And they sure as hell dont care what you think either.
As for your list of 'one-sided' events in the North, the events you highlight got serious media attention unlike the many that got virtually nothing, like the children up here shot dead by the 'lawfull' British army.
So to conclude, you have your opinion, hundreds of thousands of us have ours too !!
joey B
08/12/2004, 9:24 AM
I don't think it's neccesary to start the blame game.Yes there have been atrocites on both sides of the divide, but should'nt we be looking to the future and not the past.The most unfortunate thing about the situation in the north is that the people have choosen to give mandates to the two hardline elements of both communities ,who seeminly are determined to be as awkward as they can. There has to be a bit of give and take on both sides and people must accept each other otherwise there will be dire consequences.
anto eile
08/12/2004, 10:34 AM
release them. they were only guards they killed anyway.gards are filth
exile
08/12/2004, 12:26 PM
Just face reality boy, 55% of Catholics vote SF in the North, they dont consider them criminal. And they sure as hell dont care what you think either.
As for your list of 'one-sided' events in the North, the events you highlight got serious media attention unlike the many that got virtually nothing, like the children up here shot dead by the 'lawfull' British army.
So to conclude, you have your opinion, hundreds of thousands of us have ours too !!
i could highlight 1000's more if you want innnocents that did nothing catholic and protestant
listen nazi i have not once defended what the british army did or thier crimes im attacking your posts in regards to scum fein/ira and thier crimes against humanity as i would too in regards to the brits.
and you named the main problem up their with you boy you said 55% of people dont care what i think and thats their problem blinded blinded by bigotary and hatred that issues of whats right moraly right and wrong have become blurred
ya the big difference in opinon is that you support murder genocide torture and robbery
and i belive in law and justice
exile
08/12/2004, 12:30 PM
release them. they were only guards they killed anyway.gards are filth
grow up some people would say rovers fans are filth too :rolleyes:
WeAreRovers
08/12/2004, 1:48 PM
release them. they were only guards they killed anyway.gards are filth
Spoken like a true Hoop. :D
Exile - Leave it out with the name-calling. You're arguments need all the help they can get and name-calling doesn't help your "cause"
KOH
shut u "barely-disguised partitionist"
:D
dortie
08/12/2004, 2:33 PM
"barely-disguised partitionist"
Thats exactly what he is.
Has everyone finished on this thread? I think it's run it's course so I reckon lock it....
dortie
08/12/2004, 2:44 PM
Has everyone finished on this thread? I think it's run it's course so I reckon lock it....
Watch out you'll be called a Nazi next !
better than bein a crypto Nazi
do they solve crosswords in their spare time?
Thats exactly what he is.
just cause i dont agree with your view you call me a partitionist
i want a united 32 county ireland but then again just cause i dont agree with scum feins/ira bombing murder and torture then i dont have a right to express my views are ye going to send a couple of your boys down to my house to sort me out now that would be just yer typical response :rolleyes:
dortie
08/12/2004, 2:50 PM
just cause i dont agree with your view you call me a partitionist
i want a united 32 county ireland but then again just cause i dont agree with scum feins/ira bombing murder and torture then i dont have a right to express my views are ye going to send a couple of your boys down to my house to sort me out now that would be just yer typical response :rolleyes:
:D
I dont vote SF anymore, does this make you look stupid now ? Im still republican though. Sure work it out someday !!
:D
I dont vote SF anymore, does this make you look stupid now ? Im still republican though. Sure work it out someday !!
ya i have worked it out you said you dont see murder torture and bombing as criminal acts i think that makes you look stupid ignorant and bigoted :rolleyes:
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