Caulfield: "Why aren't teams in Dublin marketing their clubs?"

[Charlie Darwin]

"Without the provincial teams, this league is nowhere," argued Caulfield.

"We are the biggest club out there. Historically, Shamrock Rovers have won more trophies but we are the biggest club in the league. I get disappointed when I watch a lot of the games in Dublin because I look at the teams getting 1,200, 1,300 or 1,400 people and they're near the top of the table and I'm asking 'why aren't they marketing their club?', 'why aren't they bringing kids to the game?' Bar Rovers, there is no-one in Dublin who attracts crowds any more."


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/daniel-mcdonnell-cork-city-buzz-exposes-dublin-issues-31173592.html

[Dalymountrower]

Here Hare Here..

[paykanti]

It's a matter of a lack of self-respect, I'm guessing. Rovers' website alone says a lot about how professional and well-run a club it's not. Shoutouts to Longford and greatest of all, Bray, for their online media presence too.

[Mr A]

Bohs are doing some great stuff with different cultural evenings, innovative postering, new murals in and around Dalymount and other community schemes. Not so familiar with the St Pats stuff but I know their patrons are active and doing good work also. Is Caulfield aware of any of this before he goes insulting the volunteers involved? Sure more could be done, but every club, including CCFC only has so many people and resources to cover every aspect of keeping a senior club going. He may have a valid point about crowds not being great in Dublin but the way he went about saying it made it sound like default anti-Dublin whining.

[Dalymountrower]

Just a distraction bone thrown at the meedja to avoid any debate on why his team weren't up for it last Friday.

I hope he s not too upset at the size of the crowd in Dalymount next Monday.

[strikeforce]

Just a distraction bone thrown at the meedja to avoid any debate on why his team weren't up for it last Friday.

I hope he s not too upset at the size of the crowd in Dalymount next Monday.
Na sure we will bolster your attendance for ye, and we are due a win over bohs. Bohs had the better of city last year.

[mcgonigle]

Na sure we will bolster your attendance for ye, and we are due a win over bohs. Bohs had the better of city last year.

Whatever about your home support, your away support is nothing to shout about.

[Dalymountrower]

Na sure we will bolster your attendance for ye, and we are due a win over bohs. Bohs had the better of city last year.

All ethnic .minorities welcome

[dundalkfc10]

Whatever about your home support, your away support is nothing to shout about.

Hardly Surprising is it considering they are 2plus hours away from nearly all away grounds?

[Nesta99]

Caulfield said it himself, Cork City are the biggest club in the league. I agree with him too but like Bohs & Rovers it needs to be sustained during the baron spells. I think Dundalk did well to keep an average gate well above 1k during the 1st Division days and a current average above 3000 is great - I looked at the Sligo figures with envy a few seasons ago! If we can make progress on Oriel the way Sligo did with their Showgies it will be well worth the purple patch apart from adding to the roll of honour. I dont think Dundalk FC are making the most of this success though by relying on the fortune of being champions. A big day out for the cup final can leave a legacy for clubs with a new group or generation of fans - the 2002 cup win may be the most important trophy we've ever won in terms of having a batch of new younger support that kept the flags flying in the graveyard and kept us plugging along until promotion. Pats might be an anomoly but then Pats and the cup...

[Nesta99]

I had prattled on about specific average attendances but accidently caused the browser to refresh so all gone grrrr - probably no bad thing! I was being more specific but Cork City are getting about 4% support, Dundalk 8%, Glasgow C 1.6% Glasgow R. 1.1%, Leeds Utd 2002ish 3% now more the average of less than 2%. I posted up on Orielweb a while back on this and it seems the smaller the league/nation often the better support. The Faroes per head of population had the bast followed sides. The big cities and nations average around the 1%; so scale is the main factor even if Sky has EPL fans thinking that an entire city are at a game when in reality it is 'bouts the 1% mark and that falls if there is more than ne club in an urban area like Birmingham.

[Charlie Darwin]

There's probably a bit of an "only game in town" factor going on. In Ireland, we have decent attendances per capita because we're a small country and there's not a huge amount of competition for things to do. If you make going to the football into an event people don't want to miss, it has a much better chance of competing with going to the pub/sitting at home with a curry/whatever. Sligo were the standard-bearers for that a couple of years ago, now it's Cork and Dundalk. The answer really is finding a way to maintain the interest rather than it just being people getting excited by success.

[Nesta99]

In Ireland, we have decent attendances per capita because we're a small country and there's not a huge amount of competition for things to do........competing with going to the pub/sitting at home with a curry/whatever.

I disagree on there not being a huge amount to do. Sports wise we dilute players and support more than most countries as we have our indigenous sports on top of a plethora of 'foreign' games. Thank goodness for the old sporting transferable skills otherwise we would be really muck. Anyway we spread ourselves thin but still punch above weight. LoI is one of the few markets that has the potential to grow given the oppertunity. The Aussies prior to the Sydney Olympics took an interesting stance on sports development in that they looked at the attributes of all sports folk and matched them to the sports that suited their strengths, trained them up and it worked. The Brits simply threw buckets of money at Olympic sports in general prior to 2012 and it worked for them too. The IRFU have been shedding the 'upper class' aspect of their player pool for years and back to back championships and a top 3 world ranking currently would indicate benefit of their homegrown priorities. GAA will most likely be the bastion of rural community. So we are left as being followers of the main participation sport on this isle yet as a sport that is marginalised by the self deprecating nature of our governing association. Dundalk FC is, by chance, cool to support in Dundalk now, it was in the past but is now really getting ingrained for a new generation as a Friday night place to be. Horse and dog racing on on the same friday nights.

Not sure if any f this is even relevant lol

[Charlie Darwin]

I disagree on there not being a huge amount to do. Sports wise we dilute players and support more than most countries as we have our indigenous sports on top of a plethora of 'foreign' games. Thank goodness for the old sporting transferable skills otherwise we would be really muck. Anyway we spread ourselves thin but still punch above weight. LoI is one of the few markets that has the potential to grow given the oppertunity. The Aussies prior to the Sydney Olympics took an interesting stance on sports development in that they looked at the attributes of all sports folk and matched them to the sports that suited their strengths, trained them up and it worked. The Brits simply threw buckets of money at Olympic sports in general prior to 2012 and it worked for them too. The IRFU have been shedding the 'upper class' aspect of their player pool for years and back to back championships and a top 3 world ranking currently would indicate benefit of their homegrown priorities. GAA will most likely be the bastion of rural community. So we are left as being followers of the main participation sport on this isle yet as a sport that is marginalised by the self deprecating nature of our governing association. Dundalk FC is, by chance, cool to support in Dundalk now, it was in the past but is now really getting ingrained for a new generation as a Friday night place to be. Horse and dog racing on on the same friday nights.

Not sure if any f this is even relevant lol
Sorry, I should have clarified but I wasn't referring specifically to sports. A Longford Town game on a Saturday night is an event in the sense there's usually nothing else happening in town apart from pubs and maybe a cover band. In Cork or Dublin there's always more things competing for your cash on a Friday night, or even at the Spirit Store in Dundalk. Competing sports is another factor, though, but it's still incumbent on clubs to make sure there's a specific attraction to getting out to your local club regardless of what else is going on. That's what I was trying to get at.

[Acornvilla]

JP's is unreal hai...

[outspoken]

Sorry, I should have clarified but I wasn't referring specifically to sports. A Longford Town game on a Saturday night is an event in the sense there's usually nothing else happening in town apart from pubs and maybe a cover band. In Cork or Dublin there's always more things competing for your cash on a Friday night, or even at the Spirit Store in Dundalk. Competing sports is another factor, though, but it's still incumbent on clubs to make sure there's a specific attraction to getting out to your local club regardless of what else is going on. That's what I was trying to get at.

Don't think too many in longford see it that way unfortunately. While we've averaged over 1000 at home games so far that's been down to big away supporters, I'd say 600 home fans would be a more accurate average per game.

[Pablo Escobar]

I had prattled on about specific average attendances but accidently caused the browser to refresh so all gone grrrr - probably no bad thing! I was being more specific but Cork City are getting about 4% support, Dundalk 8%, Glasgow C 1.6% Glasgow R. 1.1%, Leeds Utd 2002ish 3% now more the average of less than 2%. I posted up on Orielweb a while back on this and it seems the smaller the league/nation often the better support. The Faroes per head of population had the bast followed sides. The big cities and nations average around the 1%; so scale is the main factor even if Sky has EPL fans thinking that an entire city are at a game when in reality it is 'bouts the 1% mark and that falls if there is more than ne club in an urban area like Birmingham.

We're not even getting close to 4% support. There's about 400,000 living within a short commute of Turners Cross. So, in reality, our crowds are really nothing spectcular. Although, as with most clubs, the closer you live to the ground, the more likely you are to go to games.

[mcgonigle]

Hardly Surprising is it considering they are 2plus hours away from nearly all away grounds?

Yes it is surprising and for me makes Caufield wrong. Cork are without doubt the best supported team at home but when you go from an average of ~5k at home to ~100 away it shows what the real core support is and how if results go south so will home attendances. Most away games are in leinster and the roads couldn't really be better, others being limerick, Sligo and Galway, are they really that far? It's no excuse for such a fluctuation in my opinion.

[El-Pietro]

Yes it is surprising and for me makes Caufield wrong. Cork are without doubt the best supported team at home but when you go from an average of ~5k at home to ~100 away it shows what the real core support is and how if results go south so will home attendances. Most away games are in leinster and the roads couldn't really be better, others being limerick, Sligo and Galway, are they really that far? It's no excuse for such a fluctuation in my opinion.
No league of Ireland club has further to travel than we do, we have one club within 2 hours distance. Limerick away is the only Friday trip many of our supporters can make without taking a half day from work.
Our away support is alright, not spectacular, but alright considering many of our traveling fans have to pick and choose between away games. We all choose not to travel to Dundalk.

[mcgonigle]

I understand the distances I just think they should be better if your manager is going to claim you're the best supported club. Your team need the support the most at away games in my opinion. And the "choose not to travel to Dundalk" thing is a cop out, if you support a team it shouldn't matter what you think of the ground or pitch. I don't like a lot of grounds in the league but I go to see my team play and support them.

[CityRebel]

Yes it is surprising and for me makes Caufield wrong. Cork are without doubt the best supported team at home but when you go from an average of ~5k at home to ~100 away it shows what the real core support is and how if results go south so will home attendances. Most away games are in leinster and the roads couldn't really be better, others being limerick, Sligo and Galway, are they really that far? It's no excuse for such a fluctuation in my opinion.

I suppose unless you're prepared to walk out of work early every other Friday to travel to away games that are 2.5 hours or more away, you're not part of the "real core support"? Sligo is 4.5 hours from Cork, not that far really.

Don't be so stupid.

[White Horse]

Yes it is surprising and for me makes Caufield wrong. Cork are without doubt the best supported team at home but when you go from an average of ~5k at home to ~100 away it shows what the real core support is and how if results go south so will home attendances. Most away games are in leinster and the roads couldn't really be better, others being limerick, Sligo and Galway, are they really that far? It's no excuse for such a fluctuation in my opinion.

You can be a real core fan and not go to away games. Given their geographical location, I would say the tradition of going to away games hasn't been developed among Cork fans. For a large number of Dundalk fans, it makes little difference whether the game is at home or away, particularly if is is on the east coast.

You couldn't blame Cork fans for no coming to Oriel Park, who would want to travel that distance to see a near certain defeat.

[mcgonigle]

I suppose unless you're prepared to walk out of work early every other Friday to travel to away games that are 2.5 hours or more away, you're not part of the "real core support"? Sligo is 4.5 hours from Cork, not that far really.

Don't be so stupid.

Sligo was a bad example to be fair bit you've zoned in on one of 9 there. JC claimed Cork are the best supported team in the country and used this as a stick to beat Dublin clubs and also deflect from his teams performance last Friday. He based this on home attendances and my point is that half the games are away where I think Corks support is poor. If Cork fans feel the games are too far to travel then that's fine but I bet JC and his players would love a bigger away support.

[White Horse]

Sligo was a bad example to be fair bit you've zoned in on one of 9 there. JC claimed Cork are the best supported team in the country and used this as a stick to beat Dublin clubs and also deflect from his teams performance last Friday. He based this on home attendances and my point is that half the games are away where I think Corks support is poor. If Cork fans feel the games are too far to travel then that's fine but I bet JC and his players would love a bigger away support.

Caulfield was at a press conference in front of the Dublin media who have been criticising his team for weeks. He was basically telling them not to be so bothered about Cork when the clubs in their backyard have so many problems.

[CityRebel]

Sligo was a bad example to be fair bit you've zoned in on one of 9 there. JC claimed Cork are the best supported team in the country and used this as a stick to beat Dublin clubs and also deflect from his teams performance last Friday. He based this on home attendances and my point is that half the games are away where I think Corks support is poor. If Cork fans feel the games are too far to travel then that's fine but I bet JC and his players would love a bigger away support.

Of course they'd prefer a bigger away support, and there's a lot of fans who would prefer to travel to more away games, but it's not practical to leave work early every other Friday. Dublin is 2.5 hours away, Drogheda and Galway are 3 hours, Longford and Dundalk are 3.5 hours, Sligo is 4.5 hours, Derry is 5.5 hours. Limerick is the only away trip this year under 2 hours away for City fans. If half our away games were an hour away like yours are, then maybe you'd have a point.

[mcgonigle]

I still think I do have a point given your home support. I know it's difficult getting out of work on a Friday but I still think it should be better especially since you're title challengers. Anyway lucky for you 3 of the long away trips you mentioned are on Saturdays and as mentioned you don't travel to Dundalk anyway, well unless there's a title on the line ��

[GypsyBlackCat]

The problem with Dublin compared with Cork is there's too much competition in the city centre unlike Cork were CCFC are the only gig in town. For example, the big three (Shels, Bohs and Pat's) together average 3,800 which is a little short of Cork City's 4,000+. Shamrock Rovers are getting 3,800 average in Tallaght but weren't getting that when they played in Dublin city. The catchment area plays a big roll as well as having a successful product on and off the pitch. Dundalk and Sligo have done well doing this.

But I feel Caulfield is having a little dig at the so called 'Dublin media'.

[CityBoy]

Wouldn't say our away support is poor at all.

Had a decent crowd in Sligo on the opening day, decent enough away crowd to Rovers and Pats, around 100 of us in Drogheda recently.

Wasn't too long ago Dundalk brought around 15 fans to Cork when Sean McCaffery was in charge :o

As for not travelling to Dundalk being a cop out? I was there for both away games last year. Definitely not going back after having lighters, golf balls and bottles thrown at us after FT on the final day last year.

[Louth4sam]

As for not travelling to Dundalk being a cop out? I was there for both away games last year. Definitely not going back after having lighters, golf balls and bottles thrown at us after FT on the final day last year.

Should the Dundalk players refuse to go back to Turner's Cross after having bottles thrown at them at full time on Friday?

[White Horse]

I was there for both away games last year. Definitely not going back after having lighters, golf balls and bottles thrown at us after FT on the final day last year.

There is no excuse for that kind of scumbag behaviour. The hype around that game brought some people into the ground that we would prefer never to see again.

While terrace in Oriel Park remains a poor match day experience, the 60 away seats in the stand have the best view in the house.

I hope you come back some day and support your team when they travel up here.

[CityBoy]

Should the Dundalk players refuse to go back to Turner's Cross after having bottles thrown at them at full time on Friday?

No, because it's their job and they get paid to play. Believe it or not it's not actually my job to go and support Cork City.

This is the first I'm hearing about that too. The fans that threw bottles at the Dundalk players last Friday are probably little scrotes. Hope they're found and barred from coming back. No place for that in football.

[Nesta99]

Its a good job that we dont live on a bigger Island or we'd would really be f*cked!

Travelling to away games really does require dedication and that includes Dundalk fans too. It is not that long ago that more time was spent in snarled up traffic in Abbyleix, Drogheda, Balbriggan et al than at the game. Dundalk had a long established subsidised travel club and this has been carried on after in reasonable numbers. I dont blame Cork fans for not travelling but current levels of home support do not give licence to point the figure at others either. It is the level of St Pats home support that is most concerning considering recent success; the rest is approximate to how things are going. Bohs crowds will no doubt increase as they maintain their league position. My earlier point was that in relative terms we are not that badly supported and we all feel we can improve. But this would be an anomoly going by averages Europe wide. With some support from the FAI rather than the if they close their eyes we will disappear attitude, the league could be a real sucess but with sucess gauged at appropriate levels. The Cup Final is the one showpiece that lets us down in the perception of other sports by which I mean GAA. Many county boards would dream of having the attendance levels certainly during the national league that LoI clubs get week in week out.

[Martinho II]

There is no excuse for that kind of scumbag behaviour. The hype around that game brought some people into the ground that we would prefer never to see again.

While terrace in Oriel Park remains a poor match day experience, the 60 away seats in the stand have the best view in the house.

I hope you come back some day and support your team when they travel up here.

pity at our game that none of our supporters were put in there instead of the terraces!

[Nesta99]

pity at our game that none of our supporters were put in there instead of the terraces!

There was a choice but would have costed an extra €5, ye could have transferred to crisp and mineral cash...

If in the stand there is tea and soup available in the McGuill bar along with pints, minerals, crisps, peanuts and a with a seast and view of the game!

[Ezeikial]

We all choose not to travel to Dundalk.

Uno duce, una voce?

Is Pripyat also on your banned list?

[Ezeikial]

I suppose unless you're prepared to walk out of work early every other Friday to travel to away games that are 2.5 hours or more away, you're not part of the "real core support"? Sligo is 4.5 hours from Cork, not that far really.

Don't be so stupid.

Spaceships | My Post | Private Message

[avvenalaf]

The template for gathering support remains Termonbarry FC

[strikeforce]

Should the Dundalk players refuse to go back to Turner's Cross after having bottles thrown at them at full time on Friday?
Maybe you should take a look at your own scumbag support before you refer to our scumbag support, who by the way were reported to the security by myself and many others last Friday night and it will never happen again.

[strikeforce]

All ethnic .minorities welcome
You sure about that................

[strikeforce]

Whatever about your home support, your away support is nothing to shout about.
Its still in the top 3 or 4 in the Country, despite the long journeys. You only have to look in your away section every second week to see you have a problem up there.

[SkStu]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/23/article-2065075-00DA361D1000044C-713_468x286.jpg

What else are you gonna do on a Friday? Sit in your fackin' armchair wankin' off to Sharon Ní Bheolain? Then try and avoid your wife's gaze as you struggle to come to terms with your sexless marriage? Then go and spunk your wages on chicken fillet rolls, fruit machines and brassers? fack that for a laugh! I know what I'd rather do. Dundalk away, laaaaaave it!

;)

[Paddyfield]

Galway United have recently recruited www.magnify.ie to boost maketing. This company was originally set up by Niall McGarry who owns joe.ie etc and he is still on the board of Magnify.

[White Horse]

Good points made by Stuey Byrne on Off The Ball tonight.

He points out that the positioning of Dalymount, Tolka, and Inchicore in very densely built up areas doesn't suit modern Dublin. People like to bring their kids to games in their car and park in a safe area close to the ground.

[Charlie Darwin]

Good points made by Stuey Byrne on Off The Ball tonight.

He points out that the positioning of Dalymount, Tolka, and Inchicore in very densely built up areas doesn't suit modern Dublin. People like to bring their kids to games in their car and park in a safe area close to the ground.
"People like to bring their kids to games" is an oxymoron in the context of football in Dublin.

Tallaght being in the suburbs with lots of free parking (Dundalk fans might dispute it being safe) is undoubtedly a draw for some people, but the lack of it is not what's keeping people from games.

[White Horse]

"People like to bring their kids to games" is an oxymoron in the context of football in Dublin.

Tallaght being in the suburbs with lots of free parking (Dundalk fans might dispute it being safe) is undoubtedly a draw for some people, but the lack of it is not what's keeping people from games.

If you take Pats as an example. They have played lovely football for several years now. In a football mad city, why are only 1,200 people coming to see them? Compared to Cork, Dundalk, and Sligo, I see very few families with young children in Inchicore.

[Charlie Darwin]

If you take Pats as an example. They have played lovely football for several years now. In a football mad city, why are only 1,200 people coming to see them? Compared to Cork, Dundalk, and Sligo, I see very few families with young children in Inchicore.
In Inchicore? There's loads in Inchicore, Drimnagh, Ballyfermot - during the boom it was one of the few places young people could buy a house. Granted, a lot of them wouldn't have much disposable income, but that goes for 95% of families here. Dublin's not a football-mad city - not in the way Sligo or, though I don't know as much about it, Dundalk is. People like football, sure, but they like other things more. Bear in mind Inchicore is one of the most linked-up places in Dublin with regards to transport. There's untapped potential there, sure, but it's not lack of facilities doing it. It's lack of visibility, among many other things, and just the fact Dublin people aren't interested in watching players many people think would struggle to get into their own pub teams. I'm sure Dundalk isn't all that different, but you at least have a pride in your town up there that's not really the case for Dublin.

[White Horse]

In Inchicore? There's loads in Inchicore, Drimnagh, Ballyfermot - during the boom it was one of the few places young people could buy a house. Granted, a lot of them wouldn't have much disposable income, but that goes for 95% of families here. Dublin's not a football-mad city - not in the way Sligo or, though I don't know as much about it, Dundalk is. People like football, sure, but they like other things more. Bear in mind Inchicore is one of the most linked-up places in Dublin with regards to transport. There's untapped potential there, sure, but it's not lack of facilities doing it. It's lack of visibility, among many other things, and just the fact Dublin people aren't interested in watching players many people think would struggle to get into their own pub teams. I'm sure Dundalk isn't all that different, but you at least have a pride in your town up there that's not really the case for Dublin.

I meant that I don't see many families in Richmond Park. When you go to games in Cork, Dundalk, and Sligo, the crowd contains a lot of families. I also notice a lot of families at games in Tallaght.

Provincial clubs do benefit from local pride, as the club represents the entire town. This is obviously different in the case of teams from Dublin.

[GypsyBlackCat]

Good points made by Stuey Byrne on Off The Ball tonight.

He points out that the positioning of Dalymount, Tolka, and Inchicore in very densely built up areas doesn't suit modern Dublin. People like to bring their kids to games in their car and park in a safe area close to the ground.

That's a fair point. Parking around Dalymount is a nightmare. It's all extra cost. I travel in from Balbriggan and it's easier to get the bus than to park because 9/10 you are parked miles away. I'd be less likely to bring my kids to certain games. Then you have the cost and travel. A lot of Dubs had to move to places like Balbriggan, Stamullen etc. during the boom. So you have to travel for a home game. The hassle and the cost comes into effect. It was €60 for me to bring my kids to the Longford match and we weren't home until 11.00.

Places like Dundalk and Sligo have the averaged here. You can walk to Oriel Park from most places in Dundalk so a trip to a match isn't as expensive.

[dong]

That's a fair point. Parking around Dalymount is a nightmare. It's all extra cost. I travel in from Balbriggan and it's easier to get the bus than to park because 9/10 you are parked miles away. I'd be less likely to bring my kids to certain games. Then you have the cost and travel. A lot of Dubs had to move to places like Balbriggan, Stamullen etc. during the boom. So you have to travel for a home game. The hassle and the cost comes into effect. It was €60 for me to bring my kids to the Longford match and we weren't home until 11.00.

Places like Dundalk and Sligo have the averaged here. You can walk to Oriel Park from most places in Dundalk so a trip to a match isn't as expensive.
Sorry but this is a new one on me.
I used to live in Dublin up until not so long ago and often drove north from my gaff in the leafy suburbs of Dundrum to games in Dalymount. I could get parked in the street parking on Phibsboro road less than 5 mins from the ground for free. Stroll up and be finished and home by not long after 10. Even if they were playing Shams with a packed house it would never matter.
Pats a bit harder to access on a busy night fair enough.
I don't buy into this as a valid theory to explain poor attendances for a minute.
Stuey is enthusiastic about the game which is commendable but he's a bit simple at times.

[seand]

There's LOADS of parking around Dalyer, most of it free after 7. There's also loads of free parking within 5 mins of Richmond and Tolka. Ok, it doesn't necessarily look or feel the most secure to be parking on the street particularly in Inchicore (no offence meant!) but parking should not be an issue... maybe it is an issue for the casual fan who doesn't know where to park I suppose but it's not a major issue. 10,000 cars manage to park near Croker when it comes to it.

Incidentally I've never had a problem parking at Dalyer, Tallaght, Tolka or Richmond.... not even the time I went to a Pats-Dundalk match and left the keys in the door of the car :eek: