Reserve League

[KeepersBall]

This topic may have been done to death already, but why deafhuck is there no reserve league here.
My lad has just completed a season in the Premier Reserve up North, and the standard certainly bridges the gap between 19s and senior football.
His team played Cliftonville the other week at Solitude, they drew 2-2 with a side that had seven players, including Irish league leading goal scorer Joe Gormley, in there starting line up, for lads trying to make it into the top level of Irish league or LOI you can't buy that kind of experience.
I accept clubs will kick off like buck about the expense involved,but most of the younger lads are on amateur forms up there while the more senior players are being paid already as first teamers.
I am sure all managers would welcome it as it affords them the opportunity to give squad/injured players, game time and to see which youngsters have a chance of progressing to the first team.
Apart from the cost is there any other reason why it isn't happening down here.

[nigel-harps1954]

Because the majority of clubs voted against keeping the A Championship, which was probably the most mental decision the league has ever seen.

It's much easier in the North because the costs of travel are much, much less.

[legendz]

I always reference First Division clubs that took part in the A Championship despite no obligation to do so. Some Premier clubs wanted out which was fair enough.

The A Championship should be brought back for Premier and First Division clubs that want to take part. The option should be there again for clubs with LoI ambitions to get involved. While not ideal, an A Championship could get by with 12 teams split into two north and south groups of 6. The unideal 4 series of games would provide a 20 games season. Not far off the number of games previously played at that level.

Back in terms of real time developments, Kerry look set to have a side in the LoI U17 league in March '16.

[Longfordian]

Because the majority of clubs voted against keeping the A Championship, which was probably the most mental decision the league has ever seen.

It's much easier in the North because the costs of travel are much, much less.

It was at the height of the recession at that stage though wasn't it? Might be worth looking into again in the future now that we're all rich again :-)

[Charlie Darwin]

There are some PD teams who are pushing for a proper reserve league afaik, but there are a number of clubs who don't want the extra expense and are happy just to put out senior sides and (grudgingly) U19s. Think it will only happen if the FAI enforce it like they did the U19s and set up a quasi-A Championship the likes of Tralee, etc can use as a bridge.

[wonder88]

Does anyone know when the League of Ireland B ended. It used to contain reserved teams from lenster clubs and some of the top non-league sides I think. Used to always follow the results/tables in the monday papers and most games were played on Saturday afternoons. Agree that it is badly needed as a link between u19 and senior soccer.

[legendz]

There are some PD teams who are pushing for a proper reserve league afaik, but there are a number of clubs who don't want the extra expense and are happy just to put out senior sides and (grudgingly) U19s. Think it will only happen if the FAI enforce it like they did the U19s and set up a quasi-A Championship the likes of Tralee, etc can use as a bridge.

I don't think clubs should be forced to have a reserve team. The FAI shouldn't have to enforce anything but just put the platform in place for teams to have the option. As I've said in a previous post, the reserve league, B league or whatever you want to call it can get by with at least 12 teams.

The league is damaged at times by clubs pulling out. A reserve league will be out of the limelight. If a club withdraws it's B team or an emerging area / new club only lasts a year or two, it's not going to impact on the League of Ireland.

[Jofspring]

There should be something open to clubs setting up games amongst themselves during the season for a mix of 19's and lads not making the first team. I remember Stuart Taylor saying he found it extremely hard to get games for these players. He even approached the LDMC and asked for games against the top teams in Limerick as he felt it would benefit both the junior clubs and the young lads and he was told to take a hike.

[gufcfan]

I don't think clubs should be forced to have a reserve team.

Completely disagree. Clubs are often so busy firefighting that anything outside of the business of keeping the first team on the pitch is seen as unnecessary or too costly. A reserve league or u21s with x amount of overage players is something is badly needed. Considering how far behind we are in developing players in many respects, it's not reasonable to expect a lot of players to have shown anywhere near their potential by 19.

There will always be money pressure, but you just cut your cloth accordingly. It does take a large chunk of change to run, but if everyone is forced to do the right thing, nobody is at a disadvantage and the wage budget can be adjusted down to free up the funds.

I wouldn't be surprised if Naughton used the abolition of the A Championship as a bargaining chip for himself.

The Ruud Dokter's PDP that was made public last month doesn't reference anything between u19 and senior, but surely he knows it's lunacy. He has to pick his battles anyway I'm sure. He has WWIII on his hands as it is.

Fingers crossed he manages to push through at least some of his recommendations.

[legendz]

There are some PD teams who are pushing for a proper reserve league afaik


Completely disagree. Clubs are often so busy firefighting that anything outside of the business of keeping the first team on the pitch is seen as unnecessary or too costly.

True gufcfan but first division clubs in the past fielded an A side despite not being required to. If some PD clubs are pushing for a reserve league, it will take lobbying by a group of clubs. There should be efforts to facilitate these clubs.

[gufcfan]

True gufcfan but first division clubs in the past fielded an A side despite not being required to. If some PD clubs are pushing for a reserve league, it will take lobbying by a group of clubs. There should be efforts to facilitate these clubs.

Unfortunately, I think stuff like this is at the whim of horse-trading over stuff that has nothing to do with football and all to do with "administrators". Whatever chance Dokter has of reforming youth football, trying to get Eamonn Naughton to do anything for the good of the league is ****ing in the wind.

[KeepersBall]

Well my lad played LSL Senior 1B for the first part of this season, and Irish League Premier reserve since the January window, the difference in standard was marked.
Not knocking the LSL but in the other league you had lads who had come through academy set ups at Linfield, Cliftonville, Glentoran etc, and the quality of football was much better.
Some clubs, not all, though tend to use the reserve side as a breeding ground rather than seeing the players as serious alternatives to what they have in the first team.
They also have a very strange rule in place up there.
Say Coleraine for example win the reserve league premier division and their first team get relegated from the Premier.
If that happens the reserves are also relegated to the Championship reserves, despite the fact they have proved they to be the best second XI in the country.
I asked about this and the answer I got was that the Premier reserve does what it says on the tin, it is only for reserve teams of Premier division sides.

[gufcfan]

They also have a very strange rule in place up there.

That's standard enough. Wouldn't call it strange. The reserve league is for development. In the grand scheme of things, nobody really cares where the team finishes in that league as long as it is helping develop players.

[KeepersBall]

I get that but it means it is possible for the best reserve team in the place to be playing in the second division of the reserves, which wouldn't benefit anyone.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

They should just lump all the teams into one reserve league if they we're going to have one. 18 team league. Under 19s/21s with a few overage players allowed to play per game.

[Dodge]

Does anyone know when the League of Ireland B ended. It used to contain reserved teams from lenster clubs and some of the top non-league sides I think. Used to always follow the results/tables in the monday papers and most games were played on Saturday afternoons. Agree that it is badly needed as a link between u19 and senior soccer.

B division (sometimes called the LOI combination) ran from 1964/65 to 1999/2000. Non league teams varied but including Dalkey Utd, Gentex, Dublin University and Tullamore Town.

[legendz]

They should just lump all the teams into one reserve league if they we're going to have one. 18 team league. Under 19s/21s with a few overage players allowed to play per game.
Definitely wouldn't agree with lumping all teams into it. It didn't help the A championship. Some clubs apathy towards it was clear to see.

For a reserve league / intermediary level to have a vibrancy about it and to offer a decent standard of competition, it'll need clubs who genuinely want to be in it, be they reserve or clubs with a LoI ambition.

[Bray Head]

The gap between under 19 and senior level is too big. We need either a under 21 league with some overage players allowed or a Reserve league. It needs to be regionised to North & South to reduce costs. The under 19 & new under 17 are both changing to summer leagues in 2016 in line with LOI so this will help. It should be left as optional for clubs. You would then have progression for players through u17 to u19 to u21/reserve to senior.

[gufcfan]

It should be left as optional for clubs.

Clubs can't be trusted to do the right thing. Having u21 or reserve is clearly needed.

[Martinho II]

theres a blast from the past gentex! are they still on the go?

[gufcfan]

theres a blast from the past gentex! are they still on the go?

Fairly sure it closed in 1984!

[legendz]

Clubs can't be trusted to do the right thing. Having u21 or reserve is clearly needed.Clubs can't be forced to do everything either. It's fair enough to expect them to have at least two youth teams in place.

In my own humble opinion, an intermediary league that affords aspiring clubs an opportunity to build and aspire towards league of ireland football is good for the game and enhances the status of the league.

The FAI should put such a league in place and whatever number of interested reserve teams and LoI aspiring teams get on with the game and their respective developments.

[Briuk]

Clubs can't be forced to do everything either. It's fair enough to expect them to have at least two youth teams in place.

In my own humble opinion, an intermediary league that affords aspiring clubs an opportunity to build and aspire towards league of ireland football is good for the game and enhances the status of the league.

The FAI should put such a league in place and whatever number of interested reserve teams and LoI aspiring teams get on with the game and their respective developments.

We all agree on this, but I keep insisting the way for me would be a third tier, with "B" teams allowed, like Shamrock last year, and regionalised. With less requirements for the clubs.
Cutting at same time all the support from the FAI to the Junior and Intermediate clubs, forcing them to move to this league and to be part of the system if they want to participate in the Cups etc.
Building towards a unitary system.

Another thing to work on at the same time than this league should be a cooperation deal between clubs. So if a team can't field a reserve team or can't afford it, can mix with another one to do it and players at same time can be promoted to first team.

For example Cobh Wanderers field a team on third tier, with Cobh Ramblers in second. U19 from Cobh ramblers can play in third tier with Cobh Wanderers, and players owned by Ramblers could be registered with them and play with Ramblers too.

[legendz]

I wouldn't support cutting funding to junior and intermediate clubs at all. Nor should they be forced into a regionalised third tier.

The option should simply be there for LoI clubs to field a reserve team if they wish. Aspiring clubs to join if they wish. There can't be a repeat of the Galway situation either of too many clubs from a region. Aspiring clubs would have to make an application based similarly on the A championship. If there's already a club in an area, that would have to be taken into consideration.

[Guinney]

Personally I think it was very short sited that the clubs pulled the A Championship. Yes it was an extra cost for clubs, but clubs should have looked into restructuring it. Even if clubs had a regional reserve league to cut down on travel costs and length of time players/coaches have to travel. The gap between the U19s and first team is quite big and once you are over the age you may find it hard to get game time. Other things like the 2nd choice keeper may get feck all match practice and players returning from injury too.

Correct me if I am wrong but Derry reserves and Finn Harps reserves compete in the Ulster Senior League - which is mainly Donegal sides. Something along those lines might suit clubs - clubs in the Leinster have some sort of reserve league so players can get games.

Is there any other league of Ireland teams which put their players in other leagues to get game time? I assume UCD would be one.

[Charlie Darwin]

Personally I think it was very short sited that the clubs pulled the A Championship. Yes it was an extra cost for clubs, but clubs should have looked into restructuring it. Even if clubs had a regional reserve league to cut down on travel costs and length of time players/coaches have to travel. The gap between the U19s and first team is quite big and once you are over the age you may find it hard to get game time. Other things like the 2nd choice keeper may get feck all match practice and players returning from injury too.

Correct me if I am wrong but Derry reserves and Finn Harps reserves compete in the Ulster Senior League - which is mainly Donegal sides. Something along those lines might suit clubs - clubs in the Leinster have some sort of reserve league so players can get games.

Is there any other league of Ireland teams which put their players in other leagues to get game time? I assume UCD would be one.
Rovers have a First Division team this year called Shels.

[nigel-harps1954]

Personally I think it was very short sited that the clubs pulled the A Championship. Yes it was an extra cost for clubs, but clubs should have looked into restructuring it. Even if clubs had a regional reserve league to cut down on travel costs and length of time players/coaches have to travel. The gap between the U19s and first team is quite big and once you are over the age you may find it hard to get game time. Other things like the 2nd choice keeper may get feck all match practice and players returning from injury too.

Correct me if I am wrong but Derry reserves and Finn Harps reserves compete in the Ulster Senior League - which is mainly Donegal sides. Something along those lines might suit clubs - clubs in the Leinster have some sort of reserve league so players can get games.

Is there any other league of Ireland teams which put their players in other leagues to get game time? I assume UCD would be one.

Harps reserves pulled out of the Ulster Senior League after one game this year. It's switching back to a Winter season again in August so it's not ideal for the senior clubs to keep players throughout the winter.

The league is crying out for a return of the A Championship.

[KeepersBall]

Is there not a potential problem there though especially for the short period the leagues cross over.
If a player was playing for the reserves in the Leinster Senior League, he'd have to transfer from one league to another if the first team wanted him to play, and couldn't transfer back again if their window was closed. The leagues would nearly have to run in the same season methinks.

[eitoof]

Gentex are still on the go in the mid divisions of the CCFL.

Belgrove were another LOI B team back in the day I think.

[Longfordian]

Harps reserves pulled out of the Ulster Senior League after one game this year. It's switching back to a Winter season again in August so it's not ideal for the senior clubs to keep players throughout the winter.

The league is crying out for a return of the A Championship.

On a similar note I've always thought it a bit strange that the u19 league isn't a summer league. Lads could end up having no games for a few months but clubs will still hold on to some of them just in case of injuries to the first team.

[Dodge]

On a similar note I've always thought it a bit strange that the u19 league isn't a summer league. Lads could end up having no games for a few months but clubs will still hold on to some of them just in case of injuries to the first team.
I think that is to change next year. Hope so too

[Sam_Heggy]

Switch the U19 league to an U21 league and allow 3 overage players.

Get rid of U17's and make it U18.

Play it April to August.

Reserve and underage all covered.

Simples.

[gufcfan]

Reserve and underage all covered.

Simples.

Ditching an age-group isn't an answer imo.

u17 is already late enough to be introduced to elite level.

[cobhlad]

Cobh Wanderers field a team on third tier, with Cobh Ramblers in second. U19 from Cobh ramblers can play in third tier with Cobh Wanderers, and players owned by Ramblers could be registered with them and play with Ramblers too.

Good luck getting that to happen

[Nesta99]

Switch the U19 league to an U21 league and allow 3 overage players.

Get rid of U17's and make it U18.

Play it April to August.

Reserve and underage all covered.

Simples.

Possible December 15yr olds to December 18yr olds is a huge jump in all aspects of development personal and football. I am assuming the registration dates. A reserve team with a certain number of designated senior places that are linked to the age profile of the squad. To be a bit Legendz about it offer incentive of some sorts for youth type players. Regionalised of course. Not likely to happen but an altrnative would be to bring all leagues under FAI jurisdiction to a Summer season and then enter teams at an appropriate level. MDL for Drogheda for example.

[Dodge]

Under 17 and 19 is the UEFA standard lads. At least give the 17 league a chance before dismissing it.

[Ezeikial]

U-17 and U-19 allows clubs to develop players from about 15 years upwards and allows the possibility of giving elite players four years coaching and playing at the top level available in this country.

The DDSL clubs may say they already provide this, but going to a national elite league at these age brackets by introducing u-17 makes a lot of sense