Big story about a breakaway to form an All ireland league in the Star today

[crc]

Ironically, the English Premier League could be the saviour of football in Ireland!

The EPL was a breakaway by the top English clubs because they say that they weren't getting a fair deal under the existing arrangements. However the FA saw that a complete break-away would be devastating for them (losing your top clubs is NOT a good thing - look at the state of Welsh football) and managed to keep the Premier League within their structure, but allowed the Premier League to negotiate TV money and the rest.

A breakaway league would be good (although I'm slightly sceptical about it coming to fruition). The European element doesn't matter so much - Apart from Shels (this year only) and Cork to some extent, the European trips don't bring in lots of cash and in many cases, cost the clubs money.

Without viable leagues the FAI and IFA will have problems with the governing bodies. FAI/IFA would have to divert money into the leagues to keep them going or risk not having national leagues at all.

I don't see all this happening, but it can be used as a bargaining chip by the clubs proposing to break away.
Sixteen is a good number, but qualification should ideally be on the basis of merit only. I also think that we could even sustain an all-island 2nd level division too (with Munster, Leinster, Connaught-Ulster, NI) local leagues below that. A clear pyramid, with promotion and relegation all the way down is what's needed. This gives large population centres (like Galway or Limerick) the opportunity to join the party (if their teams are good enough), while not punishing successful small teams like Longford Town or Limavady United.

The top 8 in each league should qualify initially. Thereafter, 16th and 15th place would be relegated automatically and 14th and 13th would play-off against 3rd and 4th in the lower division. This give the possibility of high turnover in early years to rectify any imballances that came about by strictly imposing the 8+8 qualifying model.

[paudie]

I agree with crc,
Initial qualification has to be on merit ie top 8 from each league.

Promotion and relegation will mean the best teams will end up in the top division anyway.

Not sure what Roddy means by Shelbourne keeping "small clubs" afloat. How would that be? With their travelling army of 100 fans?

In fairness Linfield and Glentoran do have good away support and small clubs in the North do make money from their visits.

[Macy]

Just to clarify, the Premiership broke away from the Football League. The FA were the governing body of football, but the Football League (as the name suggests) ran the league divisions 1-4. It was the FA wanting increased power, as much as the clubs wanting more dosh, that drove it. I don't really think it's an effective comparison to what could happen here.

Footballing critea is obviously the most desirable for the initial top 8. However, I would tie it in with a full, non-fudged A licence as well.

As others, I have to laugh - all us lesser clubs feeding off Shels, Derry and Cork. It's hard to take any of the rest of it seriously if he genuinely belives that those clubs are proping up the league. Don't know which smillie to use, this one :D or this one :rolleyes: given that he's supposedly laying down the way forward.

[dcfcsteve]

Just to clarify, the Premiership broke away from the Football League. The FA were the governing body of football, but the Football League (as the name suggests) ran the league divisions 1-4. It was the FA wanting increased power, as much as the clubs wanting more dosh, that drove it. I don't really think it's an effective comparison to what could happen here.

Footballing critea is obviously the most desirable for the initial top 8. However, I would tie it in with a full, non-fudged A licence as well.

As others, I have to laugh - all us lesser clubs feeding off Shels, Derry and Cork. It's hard to take any of the rest of it seriously if he genuinely belives that those clubs are proping up the league. Don't know which smillie to use, this one :D or this one :rolleyes: given that he's supposedly laying down the way forward.

Hang on - did any of you lot making snide comments about Jim Roddy even bother to read the article ? I sincerely doubt it, cuz if you did you'd know he didn't claim anyone was living off of either Derry or Cork. The only 2 examples he gave of 'big clubs' that others were feeding off were Shels and Linfield. No mention of his own club - Derry, and to his detriment no mention of the biggest club in our league, Cork. So get your facts right before throwing everything else he said out the window and making a turkey of yourself....

He was correct in using Linfield as an example of a big club that others feed off, as they have a big fanbase; wrong in the case of Shels as we all know. However - Jim Roddy himself knows the league as well, if not better, than we all do, so I'm guessing he used Shels as an example for a reason - i.e. Joe Average punter reading the sports section of the paper without any knowledge of the Eircom League would assume Shels were a big club because of what they did in Europe this year.

Anyways - stop attributing ballax to him that he didn't say.

[pete]

4 european slots for an all-ireland league isn't a big blocking point as the current setup won't sustain a 10 or 12 team premier el division with fulltime clubs so need the added commercial benefits of an all-ireland league to malke fulltime status viable for non-european teams.

Can't see all-ireland league for at least a few years as more likely to see expanded Setanta Cup when a success next season.

[Poor Student]

Why would it be 8 teams each when our population is over 2 even 3 times theirs? Wouldn't 10 and 6 be fairer?

[thejollyrodger]

good point Poor Student ! there is no way some of those northern clubs are as good as the clubs down south

[ShelsTim]

In the spirit of equity we should go for 8+8, the poorer teams will be relegated at the end of the season anyway.

This league, while I'm all for it, won't neccesarily solve all the eL's problems overnight. If someone won't come out for Limerick v Kilkenny, why woud they come out for Limerick v Limivady, to gawp at some Northies? We'd need a proper, stream-lined management system, not the FAI/IFA beaurocrats. Also, we'd need a proper merger of the two organisations, none of this regionalised league bolox, running one All-Ireland league, then 14 different regionalised leagues is just pointless and would encourage the belief that these league are seperate from the big one and so not worth supporting. One cup competition and one national team, it's the only way to go. Northern Ireland have great players and if you add them to the Republic squad we'd have an almigty team.

And if we got a proper organisation of the best from the IFA and FAI, we could have a real, working league that could challenge the big boys.

[Poor Student]

In the spirit of equity we should go for 8+8, the poorer teams will be relegated at the end of the season anyway.



Depends on your vision of equality. To me that is treating the two groups unequally as the North would be well over represented. Population of the island according to last two census 5.7m. 4m Republic, 1.7m North. North's population equals roughly 30% (actually slightly less), 30% of 16 = 5 (actually slightly less), so 6 is even more than they'd deserve population wise.

[ShelsTim]

Big poulation doesn't mean good team, e.g. Limerick, Galway. There's no real way of deciding which teams are better except through a complicated play-off system as someone mentioned, so just have 8+8 and it'll sort itself out in a year or two.

[Slash/ED]

You don't want to risk píssing off the Northerners and having them pull out of the deal. 8 each way works, if they're not good enough they'll get relegated.

[Stevo Da Gull]

In reality, what's the difference between a regular cup involving all teams from both sides of the border and a league that does the same ?

If a league wouldn't work, why should a cup ? The same issues would be there regardless.

I just think that the two FA's would run into to much trouble organising a league- as well as the whole National team problem- and that a cup would be easier to organize.

[Risteard]

8 from each association leaves 7 teams from the Republic.
hmmmmm . . . . .

[Slash/ED]

Also remember that this is the guy that give us the 10-team Premier Division.


And that's a good idea and far better than the 12 team play eachother 3 times rubbish we will have next year.

[thejollyrodger]

I think this idea is bollócks tbh. The FA's on both parts of the island are crap at organising things. The league could be a lot better than it is but isnt because no one really knows how to properly organise it. The Swiss are brilliant at this kind of stuff and would have the E.L ship shape in a season or two.

The odds of the FAI and IFA gettting one league up and running and not making a mess of it is pretty slim. Too many back stabbing and small mindedness. Even if they do stop all that, there is nothing to say they actaully get the number of teams right in the new top division and hold on to the European places.

Its European places that are going to really develop the clubs here and there is no point in loosing them. Developing the Sentanta Cup is really the best idea going. Increase the prize money for the winner and runner up and expand it in to Scotland/Wales if needs be for competition.

[dancinpants]

If Roddy is planning to go ahead without the backing of the FAI & IFA then the guy must be clinically stupid and he should have been given a column inch in the paper and not 2 bloody pages.

I never heard such shyte in all my life!!

Also remember that this is the guy that give us the 10-team Premier Division.

Jim, leave the running of the league to people that may have a clue about what they are talking about.

:confused:

Now thats a constructive post if ever I seen one!! :rolleyes:

Are you sure yer not just ****ed because, the season 3 got relegated to make way for the 10 team league you missed out on staying up by a point?...oh the joy!! :D

[crc]

The populations aren't equal (4 million and 1.7 million); but remember, the interest isn't equal either. There's a lot more interest in (Association) Football in the north than in the south, relatively speaking. The north is also more urbanised than the south with quite a few large towns. And in any case, as has been said before the crap teams will soon be relegated.

As it happens the Swiss league has only ten teams, for a population of over 7 million.

[A face]

Are you sure yer not just ****ed because, the season 3 got relegated to make way for the 10 team league you missed out on staying up by a point?...oh the joy!! :D


What ... you mean like ... sour grapes or something ?? :eek: :p

[Macy]

Hang on - did any of you lot making snide comments about Jim Roddy even bother to read the article ? I sincerely doubt it, cuz if you did you'd know he didn't claim anyone was living off of either Derry or Cork. The only 2 examples he gave of 'big clubs' that others were feeding off were Shels and Linfield. No mention of his own club - Derry, and to his detriment no mention of the biggest club in our league, Cork. So get your facts right before throwing everything else he said out the window and making a turkey of yourself....

He was correct in using Linfield as an example of a big club that others feed off, as they have a big fanbase; wrong in the case of Shels as we all know. However - Jim Roddy himself knows the league as well, if not better, than we all do, so I'm guessing he used Shels as an example for a reason - i.e. Joe Average punter reading the sports section of the paper without any knowledge of the Eircom League would assume Shels were a big club because of what they did in Europe this year.

Anyways - stop attributing ballax to him that he didn't say.
Okay I take it back about Derry, but he did say Shels and Cork.

There are too many clubs vying for government money and too many surviving off the likes of Shelbourne, Cork, Linfield and Glentoran
There's enough ways to justify the league without saying screw the little clubs, they only survive because of the big clubs. Especially when it's patently not true, in the eL anyway.

[sadloserkid]

As it happens the Swiss league has only ten teams, for a population of over 7 million.

The Swiss first division has 10 teams, that's not the same thing.

[Poor Student]

The populations aren't equal (4 million and 1.7 million); but remember, the interest isn't equal either. There's a lot more interest in (Association) Football in the north than in the south, relatively speaking. The north is also more urbanised than the south with quite a few large towns.

And one of those large towns is Derry of which Derry City count for the majority of the town. When you think about it, it woud be 9-7 in their favour if we considered Derry as one of the El teams going in.

[dcfcsteve]

And one of those large towns is Derry of which Derry City count for the majority of the town. When you think about it, it woud be 9-7 in their favour if we considered Derry as one of the El teams going in.

It's a mere quirk of history that the Brandywell is 2 miles the wrong side of the border. Could easily have happened to Harps, Dundalk, Monaghan etc.

So none of this 9-7 nonesense : we're Eircom League through-and-through. :)

[OneRedArmy]

Jim, leave the running of the league to people that may have a clue about what they are talking about. :confused:

WHo are these mythical people? I certainly haven't come across any yet :confused:

[Poor Student]

It's a mere quirk of history that the Brandywell is 2 miles the wrong side of the border. Could easily have happened to Harps, Dundalk, Monaghan etc.

So none of this 9-7 nonesense : we're Eircom League through-and-through. :)

It's no slight on you but when we're talking about things like population you're part of the 1.7m.

[dcfcsteve]

It's no slight on you but when we're talking about things like population you're part of the 1.7m.

I'm exiled in London, so unfortunately I'm not (unless it's Christmas time....) ! :D

[OneRedArmy]

It's no slight on you but when we're talking about things like population you're part of the 1.7m.

I'm not picking a row, but I'd say a fair percentage of our fanbase, as with a lot of people born or formerly living in Derry in general, live across the border in Donegal. As Steve said, its only 2 miles.

As people have said elsewhere, using population as a proxy isn't always a recipe for success, or else Galway, Limerick and Sligo would be more successful than they are now.

Unless of course you want to start from scratch and go down a franchise basis............ :D

[CuanaD]

I think this idea is bollócks tbh. The FA's on both parts of the island are crap at organising things. The league could be a lot better than it is but isnt because no one really knows how to properly organise it. The Swiss are brilliant at this kind of stuff and would have the E.L ship shape in a season or two.

The odds of the FAI and IFA gettting one league up and running and not making a mess of it is pretty slim. Too many back stabbing and small mindedness. Even if they do stop all that, there is nothing to say they actaully get the number of teams right in the new top division and hold on to the European places.

Its European places that are going to really develop the clubs here and there is no point in loosing them. Developing the Sentanta Cup is really the best idea going. Increase the prize money for the winner and runner up and expand it in to Scotland/Wales if needs be for competition.

I'm with you on this one - expansion of the Setanta is a better way forward. In a few years we could see something like:
Seperate Premier divisions (N&S) with 22games (12 teams - home & away) Lower divisions something similar. Also keep the seperate cups (probably get rid of the league cup). This way each jurisdiction keeps their own European places.

Followed by a 10 team all ireland league (again home & away) - 5 best from each league.
Coupled with a league Cup set-up for the other teams - with 8-team reigonalised groups (Home & away), followed by top 2/3/4 going into the last 16/8.

Each team gets at least 15 home games per season

(The figures used to work out perfectly until NI expanded their leagues, ah well)

[dcfcsteve]

Beyond FAI/IFA incompetence (more a reason for a change in admin, rather than not changing stucture...), the main justification you appear to be giving for keeping the 2 leagues separate is the idea of loosing European places. This issue is a COMPLETE RED HERRING.

Each jurisdiction currently has 4 European slots - Champs League, UEFA x 2 and Inter-toto. That's a total of 8 Euro slots shared between the 2.

If there was a single league on this island - in straight-forward numerical terms those 8 slots would get reduced to 4, so yes - there would be less European slots available to the island of Ireland as a whole. But in reality it wouldn't change a single thing.

However - there aren't 8 European slots available to any one team in Ireland : just 1 of 4 slots, regardless of which league a team plays in. Under an all-island league, every team would still be playing for 1 of 4 European slots. Therefore, teams would NOT be worse off with regards to European entry - they'd be in the same boat they are now, with the same number of chances of European qualification. No-one would be worse off in terms of qualification opportunities, so we wouldn't in reality as clubs be losing anything.

[Longfordian]

Well there'd be more teams competing for the same amount of places so they'd have to be worse off wouldn't they?

[dcfcsteve]

Well there'd be more teams competing for the same amount of places so they'd have to be worse off wouldn't they?


That arguement could also be used against the change to a 12-team Eircom Premier Division. There's now 2 more teams trying to get our 4 Euro slots - so in that respect everyone in the Eicom League is worse off. It could also have been used against the 1985 expansion of the League of Ireland, the recent major expansion of the Irish League etc etc - they all increased competition for European slots, either immediately (bigger qualifying divisions) or in the longer term (a larger number of clubs in senior football working towards trophies/European qualification). So yes - there's more competition. But we've been increasing competition for Euro slots outside the realms of an All-island league anyway, and it hasn't been raised as an issue in those instances. Why is it therefore only an issue now ?

As an aside - fear of increased competition is nothing more than an excuse in favour of maintaining the mediocrity of football in Ireland. If our teams were that worried about not being the best in Ireland, then we shouldn't even be trying to progress in Europe.

European slots are therefore a complete non-issue....

[Breifne]

But we've been increasing competition for Euro slots outside the realms of an All-island league anyway, and it hasn't been raised as an issue in those instances. Why is it therefore only an issue now ?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we were to amalgamate wouldn't we also get an amalgamation of co efficients, which would mean that we would get a slight boost from that, we would rise about five or six places in the co efficients table.

That can only be a good thing.

[eoinh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we were to amalgamate wouldn't we also get an amalgamation of co efficients, which would mean that we would get a slight boost from that, we would rise about five or six places in the co efficients table.

That can only be a good thing.

I'll have to correct you. Its only an average. As NI has a worse average than us the new average would be less than our present one. It would be the average of the two averages which is worse than our average but better than NI's average. So ROI clubs would be worse off but NI clubs would be better off. :D

Except for Shels and Bohs who beacus of their performances in Europe have established their own club co-efficients.

[sadloserkid]

Besides according to the current plan only 16 teams would get to compete for Europe anyway (with the exception of the proposed National cup I presume) so it's only a handful more teams fighting for places.

At the moment there's no provision for a First Division so nobody has to worry about the other 34 clubs who are gonna get kicked out of senior football threatening to steal any precious European spots.

[Breifne]

I'll have to correct you. Its only an average.

Forgot that it was an average, so yeah, bit of a bummer there.

[patsh]

At the moment there's no provision for a First Division so nobody has to worry about the other 34 clubs who are gonna get kicked out of senior football threatening to steal any precious European spots.Come on SLK, there isn't a country in Europe that gives Euro slots to teams from lower divisions, unless they win the Cup.

[Rebal Boy]

I think an All-Ireland league would be superb. I think it should be 3 tires in it eg, LOI 1st div teams go into Div 1 A and Irish league 1st div teamsgo int Div 1 B and the top 2 from both sections go into the Samis and the 2 teams that reach the final will be promated into he Prem or else do it as 4 go up and 4 go down. What do ye think?

[sadloserkid]

Come on SLK, there isn't a country in Europe that gives Euro slots to teams from lower divisions, unless they win the Cup.

No, I know that, I'm not so big a whinger that I've a problem with that! :D

It's just that as far as I can tell there isn't any provision for lower leagues in the idea currently being floated. This annoys me. And worries me.

[dcfcsteve]

No, I know that, I'm not so big a whinger that I've a problem with that! :D

It's just that as far as I can tell there isn't any provision for lower leagues in the idea currently being floated. This annoys me. And worries me.

I wouldn't worry SLK. I'm in danger oif sounding like David Brent, but I think it's currently just a case of "sell the sizzle, not the sausage" here....! Remember - this is one unofficial interview with one person about a huge concept. Of course there'd need to be feeder divisions into an AIL prem - otherwise the whole concept would just die in a matter of seasons. But at the moment, it's the 'big picture' that will sell the idea - journos don't really want to hear about the technicalities of it all, particularly at this stage.

Have faith.... :)

[pineapple stu]

European slots are therefore a complete non-issue....

I see you've conveniently ignored my perfectly good and accurate maths earlier on this thread which prove that teams would have less of a chance of qualifying for Europe. European slots are an issue - how could they not be?!

[paudie]

I see you've conveniently ignored my perfectly good and accurate maths earlier on this thread which prove that teams would have less of a chance of qualifying for Europe. European slots are an issue - how could they not be?!

Obviously it would be harder to qualify for europe but hopefully this should be outweighed by other factors such as increased attendances and (most importantly of all) a substantial TV deal.

This will only happen if decent TV money is available, otherwise clubs won't take the risk.

[pineapple stu]

Obviously it would be harder to qualify for europe

Tell dcfcsteve and his flawed maths that! :rolleyes: ;)

[dcfcsteve]

I see you've conveniently ignored my perfectly good and accurate maths earlier on this thread which prove that teams would have less of a chance of qualifying for Europe. European slots are an issue - how could they not be?!

The EL currently has 4 Euro slots. The IL currently has 4 Euro slots. If we combined both, our co-efficient might go down, but each team would still be playing for, wait for it..., 4 SLOTS !

We would probably be lower seeded, but we'd still have a total of 4 slots ! Therefore, our opportunities of GETTING INTO Europe would be exactly the same, it just might be tougher for a few seasons initially when we got there. You could even argue that Euro ventures would be easier to some degree for EL clubs, as the southern teams would be initially playing with a co-efficient that under-rated them ! And with Bohs and Shels on good personal seedings, not all EL clubs would be affected anyway.

Studying Maths by any chance Pineapple.... :O)

[dcfcsteve]

[QUOTE=paudie]Obviously it would be harder to qualify for europe

How would an all-island league make it uniquely harder to qualify for Europe in a way that increasing the size of the premier division by 20% next season doesn't ? Or in a way that expanding the LOI in 1985 didn't ?

Both those above activities make it harder for any EL team to qualify for Europe, by increasing the number of competitors for the slots available. Yet Euro slots are only ever bemoaned as a negative issue when it's in the context of an all-island league. Why ???

[ShelsTim]

[QUOTE=paudie]Obviously it would be harder to qualify for europe

How would an all-island league make it uniquely harder to qualify for Europe in a way that increasing the size of the premier division by 20% next season doesn't ? Or in a way that expanding the LOI in 1985 didn't ?

Both those above activities make it harder for any EL team to qualify for Europe, by increasing the number of competitors for the slots available. Yet Euro slots are only ever bemoaned as a negative issue when it's in the context of an all-island league. Why ???

Because the teams coming into the premier in those instances were/are not going to be competing for the top three spots. If the NI teams are good enough to challenge Shels etc., the ROI teams will be less likely to get into Europe, if the NI teams can't compete, it'll be less likely they'll get into Europe, therefore bad.

[dcfcsteve]

Because the teams coming into the premier in those instances were/are not going to be competing for the top three spots. If the NI teams are good enough to challenge Shels etc., the ROI teams will be less likely to get into Europe, if the NI teams can't compete, it'll be less likely they'll get into Europe, therefore bad.

I can't believe how parochially minded everyone is being about this. So the teams in the 1985 expansion of the LOI were never going to compete for Euro slots ? Why did you ever let Derry City into your precious little league then - sure we've had the cheek to deny you all of silverware on 10 occasions, and European entry 7 times. Bray and Longford were also new teams introduced in the 1985 expansion - rack up another 6 trophies, and 3 European outings denied to you all. Shocking really what can happen when you open your doors! Best not make that mistake again......

This discussion is now descending into farce. At best 2-4 IL teams will be realistically competing for Europe in the medium term, and probably only 1 from the off, so it's not as if the mongol hordes will be charging south of the border to seize our precious Euro slots. Yes - you could therefore argue that that is bad for IL clubs. However, raising the standard would be to their benefit beyond the short-term, and regardless - they could just as easily be denied Euro slots by new comers within their own league (Institute, Donegal Celtic) as by increased competition within an AIL.

If conjecture regarding the degree of competition for European slots is the best anyone has to say against an all-island league, then they've clearly lost the arguement already.

This is really getting into small-minded 'me fein' ism. Feck what's best for football in Ireland......

[Slash/ED]

I can't believe how parochially minded everyone is being about this. So the teams in the 1985 expansion of the LOI were never going to compete for Euro slots ? Why did you ever let Derry City into your precious little league then - sure we've had the cheek to deny you all of silverware on 10 occasions, and European entry 7 times. Bray and Longford were also new teams introduced in the 1985 expansion - rack up another 6 trophies, and 3 European outings denied to you all. Shocking really what can happen when you open your doors! Best not make that mistake again......

This discussion is now descending into farce. At best 2-4 IL teams will be realistically competing for Europe in the medium term, and probably only 1 from the off, so it's not as if the mongol hordes will be charging south of the border to seize our precious Euro slots. Yes - you could therefore argue that that is bad for IL clubs. However, raising the standard would be to their benefit beyond the short-term, and regardless - they could just as easily be denied Euro slots by new comers within their own league (Institute, Donegal Celtic) as by increased competition within an AIL.

If conjecture regarding the degree of competition for European slots is the best anyone has to say against an all-island league, then they've clearly lost the arguement already.

This is really getting into small-minded 'me fein' ism. Feck what's best for football in Ireland......

I agree, sure we may aswell make it a four team league and everyone gets into europe.

Increased competition for European spaces is a good thing and can only raise the standard.

[eoinh]

I agree, sure we may aswell make it a four team league and everyone gets into europe.

Increased competition for European spaces is a good thing and can only raise the standard.


I agree. If you want football to progress on this island then you need an all-ireland league with proper promotion and relegation so every team is included.

[pineapple stu]

The EL currently has 4 Euro slots. The IL currently has 4 Euro slots. If we combined both, our co-efficient might go down, but each team would still be playing for, wait for it..., 4 SLOTS !

But we have combined two leagues, so you'd have more teams competing for those four slots! Therefore your odds would be reduced, as per my earlier post - QED!

At the moment you have, say, Shels, Longford, Bohs, Cork, Linfield, Glentoran, Ports and AN Other getting into Europe from x number of teams. In a unified league you'd have only half those teams getting into Europe from the same number of teams! It's that simple! Look back at my earlier post and see how simple! Fortunately, most people here seem to agree with me. So I'm not going to repeat myself for the minority who have rather poor maths. Basically, though, odds aren't that simple that you get to average them out to get new odds - if they were, then betting on two 2-1 outcomes (results, say) would leave you with odds of 2-1! Which is plainly nonsense!

[yur man]

the maths is correct that the total number of teams playing in europe would go down from 8 to 4. thats fine

and if people are really attached to seeing their 4 republic of ireland teams and 4 northern ireland teams in europe every year then fine too

and its true that in an all ireland league theres a chance that all 4 teams representing ireland could be from the north

but my opinion is, so what?

ireland as 1 country would only deserve 4 teams in europe. so right now, we have 8

im all for it, sign me up dcfc

[dcfcsteve]

But we have combined two leagues, so you'd have more teams competing for those four slots! Therefore your odds would be reduced, as per my earlier post - QED!

At the moment you have, say, Shels, Longford, Bohs, Cork, Linfield, Glentoran, Ports and AN Other getting into Europe from x number of teams. In a unified league you'd have only half those teams getting into Europe from the same number of teams! It's that simple! Look back at my earlier post and see how simple! Fortunately, most people here seem to agree with me. So I'm not going to repeat myself for the minority who have rather poor maths. Basically, though, odds aren't that simple that you get to average them out to get new odds - if they were, then betting on two 2-1 outcomes (results, say) would leave you with odds of 2-1! Which is plainly nonsense!

And I'll repeat myself one last time. There's been a number of changes within the Eircom League/League of Ireland that have likewise increased the level of competition for Euro slots - e.g. a 20% increase in the size of the premier next season, the 1985 expansion of the league etc. Not once did anyone bemoan the impact of those events upon the maths of European qualification. Yet when it's an all-Ireland league we're talking about, suddenly it becomes an issue and everyone's reaching for their abacus's. Why ?