Fester Carsley retires again...

[TerryPhelan]

... but for good, this time.

http://www.elevenaside.com/boysingreen/irish_soccer_detail.asp?newsid=14701

Thankfully it's no great loss to the Irish side. Nice knowing you, Lee.

[the ox]

Carlsey was a legend. I got to interview him as part of my coursework and it got me a betetr grade than I deserved! Thanks Lee!

[Donal81]

The former Derby County, Blackburn Rovers and Coventry City man said: “When the lads go on international duty, I don’t miss going. That probably means it is time to call it a day, not least because it is benefiting me here at Everton.

“I am not missing training and I am not getting up at silly hours to get planes after internationals. Taking a break from international football has given me a chance to get the right kind of rest and do the right training.”

Good riddance, sir.

[the ox]

Actually in the interview he said it would be a good thing if Ireland played at Anfield! Still a legend though!

[shane123]

'concentrate on playing for everton' - is he having a laugh. is that where the end of his ambitions lie. staying fit for an away game in Portsmouth. Anyway, glad to see the back of him. his last display against Russia was a joke.

[Adrianovic]

Or in other words, Kerr didn't drop everything when I decided to give it another go and I'm too good to sit on the bench.

Ade

[tricky_colour]

Well if I was the highest rated Irish player in the Actim index and I couldn't
even make the squad I think I would call it a day.
http://www.actim.pa.press.net/top100.shtml
THe index is a joke anyway when you look at the players above him, 95% of
which could best be described as useless.

[eirebhoy]

Not a huge Carsley fan, but when we're looking at players like Kavanagh and S Reid to provide cover I think we shouldn't jump up and down for joy when another midfielder goes...
Kavanagh is a better player than a lot of first team central midfielders in the premiership and I'd even include Matt Holland in that.

[JoeSemi]

Kavanagh is a better player than a lot of first team central midfielders in the premiership and I'd even include Matt Holland in that.

Kavanagh has outshone many more established prem and international footballers since returning to the team and some proper acknowledgement outside of Cardiff is long overdue.

As for Lee O' Carslaigh, the man is not getting the credit he deserved and I for one wish him the best of luck in the rest of his career. Not blessed with too much ability, but always gave 100% in the green shirt and never failed to appear when announced in a squad ,despite knowing that most of the time he wouldn't get a run out. If only other more high profile players weren't so chosey on when to appear :mad:

[b_mcsweeney]

i'd have no grudge with carsley on a personal level, he always seemed like he gave his best and never caused any fuss, but it just seemed like every time he played the team had a stinker and we'd have a bad result. i'm sure that wasn't the case, it just felt like it. it didn't help his case (in my mind) that he gave away that penalty in the playoff (the one with turkey i believe) which effectively was the away goal that put us out of euro 2000. end of the day, fair play to him and i hope he does well at club level, but he isn't exactly a huge loss to the national side.

[Éanna]

the guy gave his all every time he played, its all you can ask of any player. well done and good luck

[Plastic Paddy]

the guy gave his all every time he played, its all you can ask of any player. well done and good luck

Seconded.

:) PP

[onceahoop]

Seconded.

:) PP

Here! Here!

[skbio_toronto]

Normally I'd always like to focus on the positive contribution of an Irish player. However, in the case of Carsley, it always boils down to the same match and the same moment.

Euro 2000 playoff against Turkey at Lansdowne and 'that' thoroughly avoidable handball leading to the Turkish penalty. Ireland played well enough that nite, u know. And 1-0 would have been a fair result - no bias or nothin'

I'm not labelling Carsley as a scapegoat or anything. But I reckon his fate as a regular starter in midfield was negated by that fraudulent slip.

Sorry, for rousing an old wound!

Honest pro - nothing more, nothing less.

SKBIO-TOR

[Donal81]

I'm not sad to see the chap go. He always gave his all and always turned up until he retired but I won't give him credit for that as he's an Irish footballer - that's the very, very least that's expected of him. Unless his family reasons are playing a strong factor here - which I wasn't aware of last time he retired and I gave him some unfair criticism on this site - he clearly isn't that interested in playing for Ireland and would prefer to play for Everton. Good luck to him but that kind of attitude has no place in any international team.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Normally I'd always like to focus on the positive contribution of an Irish player. However, in the case of Carsley, it always boils down to the same match and the same moment.

Euro 2000 playoff against Turkey at Lansdowne and 'that' thoroughly avoidable handball leading to the Turkish penalty. Ireland played well enough that nite, u know. And 1-0 would have been a fair result - no bias or nothin'

I'm not labelling Carsley as a scapegoat or anything. But I reckon his fate as a regular starter in midfield was negated by that fraudulent slip.

Sorry, for rousing an old wound!

Honest pro - nothing more, nothing less.

SKBIO-TOR

That is a load of bullsh!t. Ireland were not the better team that night and 1-0 would not have been a fair result. We were completely over-run in midfield. Seldom have I seen an Irish team so out-played at Lansdowne. Tugay pulled the strings in midfield for Turkey while the outstanding Sergen Yalcin made a mockery of Roy Keane who was then at his peak. If you want to find scapegoats for that night, look to Tony Cascarino who continuously tripped over the ball and Rory Delap on the right wing who rarely got a touch of the ball. Many Irish players have made mistakes. Roy Keane missed a penalty against Romania, costing us a point. I dont hear people complaining about that. Carsley is simply an easy target.
As JoeSemi pointed out, no player was more willing to turn up for our squads, even though he knew his chances of playing were limited. Including the 2002
WC qualifiers and the World Cup itself, Carsley was available for selection in each of the 16 games. All he played was 20 minutes in the home game against Cyprus and 10 minutes against Saudi Arabia.
Thanks Lee. Your commitment will not be forgotten by those Irish fans who appreciate effort.

[Condex]

He played great in one game a playoff against Belguim(I think) rest of ther time he was crap, no big loss.

[skbio_toronto]

That is a load of bullsh!t. Ireland were not the better team that night and 1-0 would not have been a fair result. We were completely over-run in midfield. Seldom have I seen an Irish team so out-played at Lansdowne. Tugay pulled the strings in midfield for Turkey while the outstanding Sergen Yalcin made a mockery of Roy Keane who was then at his peak. If you want to find scapegoats for that night, look to Tony Cascarino who continuously tripped over the ball and Rory Delap on the right wing who rarely got a touch of the ball. Many Irish players have made mistakes. Roy Keane missed a penalty against Romania, costing us a point. I dont hear people complaining about that. Carsley is simply an easy target.
As JoeSemi pointed out, no player was more willing to turn up for our squads, even though he knew his chances of playing were limited. Including the 2002
WC qualifiers and the World Cup itself, Carsley was available for selection in each of the 16 games. All he played was 20 minutes in the home game against Cyprus and 10 minutes against Saudi Arabia.
Thanks Lee. Your commitment will not be forgotten by those Irish fans who appreciate effort.


You misinterpreted the sentiment of my message. I even pointed out that I was NOT making out Carsley to be a scapegoat. Try reading the message again with regard to that point. I'm saying that 'unfortunately' when I think of Lee Carsley I automaticaly think of that handball against the Turks. There's two ways of looking at that handball. It was an unfortunate incident or it was just plain clumsy. I'm of the latter point of view. There are not many all time great Lee Carsley moments that I can pay homage with. (I'm wracking my brains here to no avail!)

As for the game itself, yes, I digress, Turkey played the better football. (no question) But I don't seem to remember them creating that many chances which is why I declared a biased view of Ireland meriting a win. Don't think Turkey created as many chances as (lets say) Portugal did in '01, for instance. I do acknowledge that my memory of the game is tainted by that sickening feeling when that penalty was awarded, so my recollection of the game is somewhat blurred. I tend to where my heart on my sleeve in big games like that.

My expectation with every Ireland game (in most of my time watching football) is that teams such as Turkey are going to have the lions share of possesion. (That stereotype was broken in Paris last month) How many times have we played the likes of Macedonia and see how techinically more proficient such nations players are.

One more thing (I'm being long winded here as usual), the fact that a player merely shows up for every squad and gives 100% effort every time is not a true barometer of a players legacy to his country, in my opinion. Jaysus if your thats all it takes to make an Irish team / squad. Sign me up, I'm willing to risk life and limb.

Thats one man's view.

SKBIO-TOR

[Dillo]

As for Lee O' Carslaigh, the man is not getting the credit he deserved and I for one wish him the best of luck in the rest of his career. Not blessed with too much ability, but always gave 100% in the green shirt and never failed to appear when announced in a squad ,despite knowing that most of the time he wouldn't get a run out. If only other more high profile players weren't so chosey on when to appear :mad:[/QUOTE]


Agree 100% with ye JoeSemi. About time someone acknoweldged Carsleys efforts. If only everyone had Lee's attitude, workrate and endeavour things would be an awful lot easier. He's a smashing pro and his international retirement can only benefit David Moyes' Blue Army. We have Lee's graft and Kilbane's trickery at Goodison and signs are on the toffees! Sitting at the dizzying heights of third in the league, things have never looked better on Moyseyside! As far as I'm concerned Rafael Benitez will remain Rafael BeneathUs!! :D

[Stuttgart88]

With regard to the Turkey game my recollection is that we were outclassed and somehow ended up 1-0 up. Cascarino missed a sitter, blasting a volley straight at the keeper from close range that would have changed things dramatically.

Turkey had an attacking full-back, a blond guy (Abdullah? - anyone remember his name?) who was outstanding.

The Carsley incident was a freak though.

Anyway, good luck to the guy. He never did anything stupid or selfish like McAteer's claiming he was fit when he wasn't. As always with these stories we probably don't know the half of it. Kerr may well have told him he doesn't fugure so maybe that's what prompted it.

[the ox]

Conor74, you've got it in one! If I ever play for Ireland (!) I will definitely walk out on the eve of the biggest chance my country has ever had to challenge for a trophy and make a massive impact in world football. I will also do my best to alienate everyone in the squad who wasn't born on the same landmass as me. And I will come back loved by nearly all!

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

As for Lee O' Carslaigh, the man is not getting the credit he deserved and I for one wish him the best of luck in the rest of his career. Not blessed with too much ability, but always gave 100% in the green shirt and never failed to appear when announced in a squad ,despite knowing that most of the time he wouldn't get a run out. If only other more high profile players weren't so chosey on when to appear :mad:


Agree 100% with ye JoeSemi. About time someone acknoweldged Carsleys efforts. If only everyone had Lee's attitude, workrate and endeavour things would be an awful lot easier. He's a smashing pro and his international retirement can only benefit David Moyes' Blue Army. We have Lee's graft and Kilbane's trickery at Goodison and signs are on the toffees! Sitting at the dizzying heights of third in the league, things have never looked better on Moyseyside! As far as I'm concerned Rafael Benitez will remain Rafael BeneathUs!! :D[/QUOTE]

Smashing post Dillo. Goes down as one of the all-time greats.

[EamonD]

Ireland is the sow that eats her own farrow. Keep it up boys! :rolleyes:

[De Town]

Carsley just scored a cracker of a free kick for Everton against Newcastle

[Donal81]

A decent bloke, dodgy footballer, but he doesn't deserve praise for turning up and I don't understand why so many people here are giving it for that reason. The reason that Carsley gets so much stick, aside from the fact that he's a ropey player, is that he never convinced anyone that Ireland was his country and that he really wanted to play for us. He showed up, blah blah blah, but he never convinced that he wasn't just playing for us because England wouldn't call him up.

[tricky_colour]

He scored a great free kick against Newcastle today, as good as you
will see.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

A decent bloke, dodgy footballer, but he doesn't deserve praise for turning up and I don't understand why so many people here are giving it for that reason. The reason that Carsley gets so much stick, aside from the fact that he's a ropey player, is that he never convinced anyone that Ireland was his country and that he really wanted to play for us. He showed up, blah blah blah, but he never convinced that he wasn't just playing for us because England wouldn't call him up.

That's absolute rubbish. He made his debut for us against Romania in 1997. However, he had played at under-21 or B level a few years previously - Im not sure. Nobody can ever question his commitment to Ireland. What p!sses me off is that certain players cant even turn up for competitive games against the so called minnows, yet they are proclaimed as heroes just because they are good footballers. Lee Carsley might not have been a great player but at least he had decency and gave everything for Ireland anytime he played. For that, he deserves credit, not abuse from a group of jump-on-the-bandwagon supporters.

[Plastic Paddy]

I think you're missing Donal's point, PM. Too many nights at Tramco are blurring your vision. :p He doesn't seem to be questioning Carsley's commitment but pointing out that there's a section of fans that just don't like the fact that some 2G and 3G players (for that's what they are) like Carsley aren't outwardly passionate on the pitch or don't go for the whole badge-kissing Oirish mentality. Matt Holland is another player with clear British links and suffers from exactly the same bad deal as a result.

I remember reading an interview with the Shrewsbury forward, Birmingham-born Luke Rodgers, the season before last at the time Don Givens called him up for an u-21 squad. He qualified through an Irish grandmother. "Everyone knows I'm English and proud of it but Ireland have offered me a chance and I'm going to take it". What would the boo-boys have made of that, I wonder, should Rodgers have played and made it eventually as a senior player? (Nothing if he'd been prolific, I guess, but there's still time. He opted for England's National Game XI last season when Shrewsbury were in the Conference, played for them, and is still at Gay Meadow. But I digress.)

Back to the subject of this thread: Lee Carsley can hold his head high for serving Ireland with dignity and good grace, and we thank him for that. He won't feature as an all-time great. But then, very few ever do.

:) PP

[Donal81]

That's absolute rubbish. He made his debut for us against Romania in 1997. However, he had played at under-21 or B level a few years previously - Im not sure. Nobody can ever question his commitment to Ireland. What p!sses me off is that certain players cant even turn up for competitive games against the so called minnows, yet they are proclaimed as heroes just because they are good footballers. Lee Carsley might not have been a great player but at least he had decency and gave everything for Ireland anytime he played. For that, he deserves credit, not abuse from a group of jump-on-the-bandwagon supporters.

Take it easy, for jaysis sake, and I'll assume you aren't referring to myself as a jump-on-the-bandwagon supporter. I didn't question his commitment to Ireland but he never convinced the masses that he was in the squad for Irish reasons. Like Plastic Paddy says, he probably got a raw deal as a result.

But I'm not going to give the chap credit for turning up for a team he declared for - and I don't understand why anyone here is using this as a measure of his commitment - and nor am I going to give him credit for not complaining when he didn't get a game. This is football lads, that's what happens if you don't play your way into the team.

I'm sure he's a decent chap and best of luck to him but he never convinced the masses that he was doing it because he loved the country, i.e. that he was 'one of us'. Compare this to MacAteer, Morrison, Houghton, Cascarino. I don't know how this happened but I'm fairly sure this is where the abuse comes from. This and the fact that he's a sh*te footballer. Well, he was when he played for Ireland.

Generally, I don't like it when players declare for their club over their country. I know it's the way things are going but I just don't like it and I don't think too many fans do. I thought that playing for Ireland would be unbelievable and that you'd want to do it as much as possible and not turn away from it. He has his reasons and it's only a game but I still don't like it.

[Dillo]

Carsley just scored a cracker of a free kick for Everton against Newcastle


Jaysus twas a peach of a free kick! His celebration after it was as cool as a cucumber! Great battling performance from Everton and a valuable point. Great times being an Evertonian looking down on the redmen! :p

[tricky_colour]

Jaysus twas a peach of a free kick! His celebration after it was as cool as a cucumber! Great battling performance from Everton and a valuable point. Great times being an Evertonian looking down on the redmen! :p

His second goal from a free kick this season, he has become a bit
of a dead ball specialist!
I have been banging on about him being the top Irish player in
the Actim index for a while now, an index many here simply dismiss
as irrelevant statistics.
http://www.actim.pa.press.net/top100.shtml

He is actually at No. 7 now!!

Duff emerged in the index a few weeks back, now he is playing regular
and has now climbed to No. 25( That won't include his goal tonight).
He was No. 44ish last week.
Kilbane 35
Carr 69
Given 70
Keane 71
Finnan 73

I think it is a shame he was never selected when he declared himself
availabe for selection again

[Ozymandias]

That is a load of bullsh!t. Ireland were not the better team that night and 1-0 would not have been a fair result. We were completely over-run in midfield. Seldom have I seen an Irish team so out-played at Lansdowne. Tugay pulled the strings in midfield for Turkey while the outstanding Sergen Yalcin made a mockery of Roy Keane who was then at his peak. If you want to find scapegoats for that night, look to Tony Cascarino who continuously tripped over the ball and Rory Delap on the right wing who rarely got a touch of the ball. Many Irish players have made mistakes. Roy Keane missed a penalty against Romania, costing us a point. I dont hear people complaining about that. Carsley is simply an easy target.
As JoeSemi pointed out, no player was more willing to turn up for our squads, even though he knew his chances of playing were limited. Including the 2002
WC qualifiers and the World Cup itself, Carsley was available for selection in each of the 16 games. All he played was 20 minutes in the home game against Cyprus and 10 minutes against Saudi Arabia.
Thanks Lee. Your commitment will not be forgotten by those Irish fans who appreciate effort.


that turkish match the turks played keep ball nad passed the ball sideways and backwards all night..Yalcin was never near enough to keane to make a mockery of him...the turks came for a draw and got it..had lots of possession but created very little......

Carsley I thought was always used as a scapegoat by Irish fans..He is not creative more of a spoiler and he did that role well when he played for us...

He deserves to be thanked and respected for being an honest International and aware of his limitations.

[dynamo kerry]

carsley was always a dead ball bucko. when he played for blackburn he took all their penos and free kicks. scored 11 goals or so that season (div one mind you)

very under used player for ireland.

thank god that never happens. are you listening rory delap, david kelly, richard dunne?

[Dillo]

carsley was always a dead ball bucko. when he played for blackburn he took all their penos and free kicks. scored 11 goals or so that season (div one mind you)

very under used player for ireland.

thank god that never happens. are you listening rory delap, david kelly, richard dunne?


That's right. Even in his days at Derby County Carsley used to take a lot of set pieces too. Dead ball specialist is our Lee! Shame to see him retired from the International game. No point robbing Peter to pay Paul though as the saying goes! He's playing the football of his life these days in the Blue Chang Beer jersey at Goodison!

[brine3]

walk out

sent home

get your facts right

[Plastic Paddy]

Now now, let's not go there again...

:) PP

[sadloserkid]

Compare this to MacAteer, Morrison, Houghton, Cascarino. I don't know how this happened but I'm fairly sure this is where the abuse comes from. This and the fact that he's a sh*te footballer. Well, he was when he played for Ireland.

Are you for real??? :confused: You're talking about the same Clinton Morrison who pulled out of the first squad he was selected for because he was dreaming of an England call up? Morrison is 100% plastic.

And Ray 'I look up the Scottish result before the Irish one' isn't a shining example of all things green and beautiful either.

And I think you're missing the point about Carsley being praised for turning up. A lot of players don't bother turning up for friendly matches because they couldn't be arsed. Until his recent retirement Carsley was never one of that camp.

That said it annoys when any player announces their retirement but that's just me!

[Dillo]

What a moment that was for our beloved Lee on Saturday. As cool as ye like. Absolutely delighted for him. Amazing how far attitude and determination can get ye. Carsley is playing the football of his life under King Moyes and long may it continue!

[Donal81]

Are you for real??? :confused: You're talking about the same Clinton Morrison who pulled out of the first squad he was selected for because he was dreaming of an England call up? Morrison is 100% plastic.

And Ray 'I look up the Scottish result before the Irish one' isn't a shining example of all things green and beautiful either.

And I think you're missing the point about Carsley being praised for turning up. A lot of players don't bother turning up for friendly matches because they couldn't be arsed. Until his recent retirement Carsley was never one of that camp.

You're missing my point. I wasn't singing the praises of either Houghton or Morrison, which I thought I'd made clear. All Clinton has to do is score a few more goals and he'll become an Irish legend. He's popular, plays with a lot of heart, etc, etc. He was accepted almost immediately as was Houghton, who will go down in Irish footballing history as one of the legends. I'm not making scales of Irishness here, I'm saying that Carsley never convinced that he was ever in the slightest bit interested about playing for Ireland other than the fact that it was international football. This is probably harsh as he did always turn up but that's what happened, he was never a proper part of the team.

I'm not missing the point about Carsley. What do you want me to say, "fair play Lee for turning up for the team you declared for and not complaining when you weren't picked because you weren't good enough?" He acted like a mature footballer. Some players don't bother, true, but he doesn't deserve the amount of credit that he's getting here for it, that's the least that I'd expect of him.

[sadloserkid]

I'm not making scales of Irishness here, I'm saying that Carsley never convinced that he was ever in the slightest bit interested about playing for Ireland other than the fact that it was international football. This is probably harsh as he did always turn up but that's what happened, he was never a proper part of the team.


What have Morrison or Houghton ever done to prove that they're interested in playing for Ireland that Carsley hasn't? I'm not trying to be difficult here Donal but from what you've said so far it just seems that you never took to Carsley for some reason that you can't quite pinpoint.

We all feel like that about some players so don't feel bad (mine is Colin Healy) :D

[Donal81]

What have Morrison or Houghton ever done to prove that they're interested in playing for Ireland that Carsley hasn't? I'm not trying to be difficult here Donal but from what you've said so far it just seems that you never took to Carsley for some reason that you can't quite pinpoint.

We all feel like that about some players so don't feel bad (mine is Colin Healy) :D

I know you're not being difficult. This is what I'm saying and what I'm not saying...

I never particularly took to Carsley as a player in the same way that I never took to Ian Harte or Kevin Kilbane the winger - it had nothing with where they were from or how Irish they considered themselves, I didn't think they deserved to be in the starting XI, especially when we had alternatives. Kerr's choice of a semi-fit Carsley against Georgia is still for me his one really bad decision. That's what I thought but it's simply a footballing matter. My mother's from Birmingham with Irish parents so I understand how someone can feel connected to Ireland without having been there.

However, I can see how many never took to him as he never seemed to be part of the squad in the same way that, again, Houghton or Morrison did. Again, I'm not making cases for either of these over Carsley, let me reiterate that, in terms of Irishness and wanting to play for the team. Houghton was very much part of the squad. Also, although he never made a secret about his Scottishness, this didn't seem to bother anyone.

Carsley never elaborated on why he was there - which Morrison did - so the mercenary tag could easily be applied. I'm not calling him that but I think that's why he wasn't the most popular of players. The fact that he's retired early hasn't helped his popularity either. The fact that he said in his statement that he doesn't miss it says something too.

I didn't like him as a footballer as I didn't think he contributed anything whatsoever to the team but that's another argument. Houghton and Morrison were accepted by the Lansdowne crowd, Carsley wasn't, that's what I'm saying, not arguing the merits of either one over another. See what I mean?

[Dillo]

Carsley never elaborated on why he was there - which Morrison did - so the mercenary tag could easily be applied. I'm not calling him that but I think that's why he wasn't the most popular of players. The fact that he's retired early hasn't helped his popularity either. The fact that he said in his statement that he doesn't miss it says something too.

All I know is he's pretty popular at Goodison Park these days! :cool:

Carsley always done his best for Ireland and that's all that matters at the end of the day. It's not so long ago that a certain Roy Keane wasn't the most popular of players in the Irish camp and he probably still isn't. Performance on the football pitch is the be all and end all. If Keane had remained at the World Cup who knows how far Ireland would have progressed? Maybe no further but we don't know and we'll never know. Popularity means little in this day and age. It will only get you so far in life Donal. Carsley said that he doesn't miss the International scene. But why would he?? He spent 90% of his time benchwarming.

[Donal81]

All I know is he's pretty popular at Goodison Park these days! :cool:

Carsley always done his best for Ireland and that's all that matters at the end of the day. It's not so long ago that a certain Roy Keane wasn't the most popular of players in the Irish camp and he probably still isn't. Performance on the football pitch is the be all and end all. If Keane had remained at the World Cup who knows how far Ireland would have progressed? Maybe no further but we don't know and we'll never know. Popularity means little in this day and age. It will only get you so far in life Donal. Carsley said that he doesn't miss the International scene. But why would he?? He spent 90% of his time benchwarming.

Lads, my only beef with Carsley was that he was a brutal player for Ireland. I was just saying how the crowd never really took to him and what I believed to be the reason for that, that's all!

I thought he might miss the international scene as it was such an honour to play for his country and be involved with the squad.....