TV issue an excuse for League of Ireland to have a real chat

[nigel-harps1954]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/tv-issue-an-excuse-for-league-of-ireland-to-have-real-chat-30835557.html

Enjoyed this read by Daniel McDonnell in the Indo.

In particular, this point, while not surprising, really shows just how the leading officials in the FAI view the League:


Delegates found it disrespectful that a leading FAI official spent a portion of this rare gathering seemingly dealing with important business on his mobile phone.

[Mr A]

Took place about a month ago according to this. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/tv-issue-an-excuse-for-league-of-ireland-to-have-real-chat-30835557.html

Some pretty depressing reading in there.


Overall, the club reps were left with the impression that the FAI believe they should be grateful for the assistance they receive from Abbotstown.

Hmm.. clearly the clubs need to work together to improve this situation.

But:


Earlier this year, however, Premier Division clubs decided to start meeting independently to discuss matters of mutual concern. The PCA (Premier Clubs Alliance) recently wrote to the FAI to request details on the terms of sponsorship agreements pertaining to the league which have not been disclosed due to 'commercial sensitivity.'

Anyone know more about this? What's the advantage of having a representative body that doesn't include all clubs? Are the division one clubs really seen as that toxic? Are all the premier clubs a part of this?

Meanwhile the premier league is planning to have Friday night games.

[Dodge]

Took place about a month ago according to this. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/tv-issue-an-excuse-for-league-of-ireland-to-have-real-chat-30835557.html

Some pretty depressing reading in there.



Hmm.. clearly the clubs need to work together to improve this situation.

But:



Anyone know more about this? What's the advantage of having a representative body that doesn't include all clubs? Are the division one clubs really seen as that toxic? Are all the premier clubs a part of this?


I heard it's every club in the LOI bar Harps. They asked everyone who plays in the Premier, or is likely to play in the Premier in the next 5 years or so. Cobh and Wexford head some of the sub-committees

[bennocelt]

Wonder what club delegate though JD was worth more than he is currently on, wow!

[nigel-harps1954]

Wonder what club delegate though JD was worth more than he is currently on, wow!

Someone looking for money from the FAI.

[Longfordian]

Did the Galway delegate role go to a Salthill or Mervue official by any chance?

[gufcfan]

Did the Galway delegate role go to a Salthill or Mervue official by any chance?
Why on earth would you suspect such a thing...

[Lim till i die]

Has anyone ever heard of a club delegate ever questioning anything at a delegates meeting ever?

Some of the goings on are as laughable as they are predictable.

Its very easy to buy the loyalty of paupers.

This tv thing will be great anyway, we'll all get new floodlights out of it and the league will flourish. :good:

[Longfordian]

I have, but they usually get replaced pretty quickly afterwards funnily enough.

[disgruntled]

Will the peasants revolt I wonder or will a few crumbs from Delaneys table be sufficient to satisfy the clubs anger :rolleyes:
I won't be holding my breath.

[Mr A]

Do you mean the premier peasants or the peasant peasants?

[disgruntled]

I suppose it depends on your definition of a peasent ?

[TonyD]

Someone looking for money from the FAI.

I'm sure Delaney bought him a pint though, so it's all cool. That lad would probably feel well at home in North Korea.

[DannyInvincible]

Wonder what club delegate though JD was worth more than he is currently on, wow!

Would it be appropriate to speculate? Name and shame, I say! :sinister:

[A N Mouse]

Would the fai not be entitled to enforce a blackout on Friday nights?

Even if it meant being unable to broadcast our own league games at those times, it could be used as leverage in any agreement.

A tenfold increase in prize money would be chicken feed to the epl rights packages.

[ger121]

Would the fai not be entitled to enforce a blackout on Friday nights?

Even if it meant being unable to broadcast our own league games at those times, it could be used as leverage in any agreement.

A tenfold increase in prize money would be chicken feed to the epl rights packages.

Jesus, the LOI is unpopular enough already. Could you imagine the outcry if we were to deny the Barstooling fraternity their Friday night Football.

[nigel-harps1954]

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/13449/time-to-shake-up-the-league-of-ireland-structure---part-2/

Can't remember where Pat O'Sullivan stuff was posted before. But he made another very interesting point and potential structure change suggestion in this article.

Basically, the idea of bringing in a 16 team single division with A Championship under it. Keeps the idea of relegation in tact and solves the problem of having a First Division too small for the clubs. He admits to his idea having flaws but it does seem a fairly smart idea.

[wonder88]

My view would be that a one division league is the most suitable structure for the LoI, with 18 teams. It will likely come about anyway. Ideally there would be relegation of one team each season with promotion available also. Pat Devlin and Mick Wallace are two who support this, people with good understanding of the league of Ireland. I would like to hear the opinions of those who support the current structure on the fact that 10 weeks away from the start of the season it is not know how many teams will be in 1st division.

[jinxy lilywhite]

My view would be that a one division league is the most suitable structure for the LoI, with 18 teams. It will likely come about anyway. Ideally there would be relegation of one team each season with promotion available also. Pat Devlin and Mick Wallace are two who support this, people with good understanding of the league of Ireland. I would like to hear the opinions of those who support the current structure on the fact that 10 weeks away from the start of the season it is not know how many teams will be in 1st division.

an 18 team one division league is a ridiculous ides. the gap between top and bottom is too big & also there would be a lot of meaningless games come the end of the season with too many teams with little to fight for.
Pat Devlin & Mick Wallace want this because their clubs are in the lower tier this season. if they were in the premier they would be keeping their mouths shut.

The current structure is not ideal, I would prefer 10 in the premier and the remaining in the first. My main qualm about the 12 team premier is that I don't believe playing teams 3 times a season acts as a benefit. I think 2 away and 1 at home vice versa is giving some sides a favourable advantage.

the main ails of the league is not just the number of clubs. there are a number of other issues. that before the league gets any semblance of respectability from non loi fans and general public that need to be addressed. take your pick.
Facilities
length of league
amounts of games in short space of time
bad publicity- clubs folding, on the verge of folding, players wages owed.
lack of interest from controlling body
running of clubs in general
lack of emphasis in clubs on youth development.
short term thinking.

[luiz]

I know I wrote that post about 10 times, but nowadays is already an issue that teams like Limerick and Bohs have nothing to play weeks before the end of the championship and attendances fall dramatically. Imagine in a 18 team league without relegation.

I second the post above me, a 10 team league with 36 games, everyone playing each other twice would be the best way to go. Plus would make the First Division more interesting. But most of supporters I talk with complain a lot about playing too many times against the same opposition. For me this is not an issue but for most people looks like it is.

[luiz]

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/13449/time-to-shake-up-the-league-of-ireland-structure---part-2/

Can't remember where Pat O'Sullivan stuff was posted before. But he made another very interesting point and potential structure change suggestion in this article.

Basically, the idea of bringing in a 16 team single division with A Championship under it. Keeps the idea of relegation in tact and solves the problem of having a First Division too small for the clubs. He admits to his idea having flaws but it does seem a fairly smart idea.

A 16 team league would have 30 games, instead of the currently 33. Would be even shorter.

[wonder88]

Pat Devlin made the statement few years ago, Bray was his club and they were in the premier division. If people read the piece John O Sullivan wrote (another man who would have an idea what he is on about)he said that Wallace put one Division idea forward even if his own club was likely to suffer.
I said you would need to have relegation to regional level with less rules/cost in regard to participation. Also I would support a split after one round of games, giving 31 games per season. Maybe offer a cup and prize money to the winners of bottom section etc
Did Sligo and Pats play each other around 6 times within 2/3 months last year? Is that a bit too much.

[gufcfan]

Did Sligo and Pats play each other around 6 times within 2/3 months last year? Is that a bit too much.

Six times is a lot, but it was spread out over the whole season. President's Cup, two legs in the Setanta Cup and three meetings in the league.

[Ezeikial]

Dundalk and Shamrock Rovers met 8 times last season.

For Rovers fans that was probably too much (only 1 win from the 8 games) - but I would rather have that situation then playing last seasons bottom four FD teams on a regular basis

[wonder88]

Dundalk/Shamrock R was the fixture I had in mind, Bohs/Pats met often enough as well. Would one trip a year to Cobh and Waterford be that much of a hardship for Dundalk players and fans?

[Ezeikial]

Dundalk/Shamrock R was the fixture I had in mind, Bohs/Pats met often enough as well. Would one trip a year to Cobh and Waterford be that much of a hardship for Dundalk players and fans?

With no disrespect to the teams that you mention my personal preference is to be playing decent quality teams (Pats, Cork, Sligo, Rovers etc) on a regular basis (even if overly repetitive) as opposed to the weaker sides who may find it difficult to be competitive.

Beating Rovers is always enjoyable if only because of the arrogance of a section of their support !

[colonelwest]

With no disrespect to the teams that you mention my personal preference is to be playing decent quality teams (Pats, Cork, Sligo, Rovers etc) on a regular basis (even if overly repetitive) as opposed to the weaker sides who may find it difficult to be competitive.

Beating Rovers is always enjoyable if only because of the arrogance of a section of their support !

It's all relative to vested interests and circumstances at the time though, the "I'm alright Jack" mentality. You say that now but back when we were banging at the door under Giller trying to get back up, would you have had the same opinion? I doubt it. What happened to us, similar would no doubt happen other clubs. For example, I'm sure if Harps do a lovely Blu-Ray of the new stadium the FAI would take that in higher regard than if they finished lower in the league table than say Shels or the Youths. Ahem. Joking aside, the point still stands!

Other countries have had similar difficulties in recent times structure wise and I'd look to the Dutch league for a structure we can tailor to our own needs in this country; discounting team numbers initially as they have way more teams than ourselves; but they did have similar issues structure wise to bridge the gap between the pro/ semi pro and amateur game. Up until 2010 they had a similar issue where relegation from/ promotion to the first division was a practical impossibility.

Then again, on the other side of the coin, it all boils back to the fact that we do not have a proper pyramid structure and will never have one due to the inordinate amount of vested interests/ gravy trains/ blazer brigades/ quangos/ county fas/ the FAI and that whole kit and caboodle not wanting to change the status quo for fear of losing some semblance of power from their ego trip. Plus then the whole it costs more to enter the league in registration fees and associated costs than most clubs will take in makes it a near impossibility for most clubs coming into the league to make a go of it.



TL;DR: I'm alright Jack; Something should be done; Turkeys won't vote for Christmas.

[Ezeikial]

It's all relative to vested interests and circumstances at the time though, the "I'm alright Jack" mentality. You say that now but back when we were banging at the door under Giller trying to get back up, would you have had the same opinion? I doubt it.

I felt exactly the same back then - preferring to be playing decent quality teams then the excruciatingly painful dross that was the First Division.

If you are asking would be in favour of a one single division LoI if I was a supporter of Harps, Waterford etc - of course I would!

However I am far from convinced that a 16 or 18 team division would be in the best overall interests of the league in the longer term

[colonelwest]

I felt exactly the same back then - preferring to be playing decent quality teams then the excruciatingly painful dross that was the First Division.

If you are asking would be in favour of a one single division LoI if I was a supporter of Harps, Waterford etc - of course I would!

However I am far from convinced that a 16 or 18 team division would be in the best overall interests of the league in the longer term

As we all did and as I'm sure all fans of teams in the first do, but if it's limited to the the top teams playing the top teams only; What incentive is there for lower clubs to try get up to that level and how would they do it if it's even more of a closed shop than it already is? Generally speaking on the pitch players/ teams will improve playing against better opposition plus the extra income generated etc, if they were left to their own devices they'd be circling the drain even moreso than has happened over the last decade. I agree 100% a one division league is not the way to go, plus it's actually not allowed by Fifa/ Uefa statutes, there has to be some form of promotion/ relegation in order for JD and the FAI to continue on the International gravy train.

We've tried 10, we've tried 12, 8 in the first, 10 in the first, 7 and a half in the first etc within the bounds of the current structure and it's akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. That's not to say the league is going down the swanny, imo the league is actually in decent standing the past few years relatively speaking, but without a root and branch reform of the entire structure there's only so much faffing about can be done with the limitations in place that will have very little effect on anything both in the short and long term for the league and pro/ semi pro football in the country.

As long as JD and the FAI continue to look at the domestic pro/ semi pro game as merely an annoying little necessity that they have to at least keep ticking over in some way, shape or form in order to have the big cash cow that is in the International team (especially with the new centralised UEFA TV rights deal etc) we're screwed.

[Macy]

The reality is clubs are scared to push the FAI. Its a bit flippant to try to blame the delegates.

Messing around with the split between first and premier is the same ******ology we've had for decades, and at this moment in time misses the point. 16 or 18 teams isn't ideal, but a 7 team first isn't sustainable. If another club goes are we going to say a 6 team division is a goer? We'll probably go to a 10 team premier, but then a year or to later we'll lose another club and then what happens (as a 7 team first still won't be sustainable).

I am pretty traditional in my football outlook, but if its not to be a single division, it has to be something more radical like a conference system and playoffs

[tiktok]

Has anyone ever heard of a club delegate ever questioning anything at a delegates meeting ever?

Yes. Many, many times. But if Club delegates only get the opportunity to sit in front of the FAI once a year, at the Clubs convention, then what is realistically going to get done in that single two hour meeting.

The PCA is the most positive move in years, once it's about the health of the league as a while and not clubs bickering out of self interest.

[Mr A]

Are there any actual details available on the PCA?

[Longfordian]

The first rule of the PCA is that you don't talk about the PCA.

[Charlie Darwin]

The second rule of PCA is: No Finn Harps Allowed.