League affiliation fee?

[Nesta99]

I'm sure that with a search of this forum the Airtricity Leagues affiliation fees and the placings prize money is somewhere, if people know off the top of the head post away! More to the interest of my starting this thread is would people know what other leagues pay for membership and subsequent prizemoney, tv deals etc excluded. A comparison with our own league and others would be interesting and hopefully as stark as many would expect. How much of a surplus, if any, does the FAI get from running LoI. % comparatives could be an eye opener eitherway.

[Mr A]

Here is the Ninety Plus Four post on it: http://ninetyplusfour.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/pay-as-you-go/

[Mr A]

Especially with Europe having become much more lucrative over the past couple of years one of the first things the FAI should do is reduce the weighting of prize money towards the top of the divisions. It's crazy that clubs finishing near the bottom are subsidising those in Europe. The premiership has a far better structure for prize money payments.

[Dodge]

The premiership has a far better structure for prize money payments.

They've a bigger pot so it's not really comparable.

[Ezeikial]

Especially with Europe having become much more lucrative over the past couple of years one of the first things the FAI should do is reduce the weighting of prize money towards the top of the divisions. It's crazy that clubs finishing near the bottom are subsidising those in Europe.
Unless every club got the same prize money then surely the lower placed performers will always "subsidise" the higher placed clubs?

[Mr A]

I'm talking about the combination of affiliation fees plus other payments to the league versus prize money as in the Ninety Plus Four piece. If the clubs at the bottom are receiving less than they are giving while those at the top are well ahead then to my mind that's a subsidy. If the prize money was reworked so that the bottom clubs were at least not out of pocket then that anomaly would be removed. In the premiership clubs receive a flat amount, then this is topped up based on a scale according to finishing position- i.e. moving up a place whether at top or bottom has the same effect in financial terms. Although the premiership obviously have a far bigger pot to share out due to TV revenue, there's no reason this type of system could not be done in the LOI. Instead we have the big jackpot at the top which drops off pretty rapidly. Unfortunately I can't find the figures for this year though, but 1st takes €100,000 of the €241,500 pot. When the top finishing clubs make a good deal of money from Europe anyway, I think it makes sense to move to a more graduated system.

[vinnie]

From what I remember from a discussion with a PL club official a couple of years ago, basically if you finish below 4th your "Prize Money" will be less than your League Fees, hence why sponsorship, regardless of how small, is vital

[Ezeikial]

I'm talking about the combination of affiliation fees plus other payments to the league versus prize money as in the Ninety Plus Four piece. If the clubs at the bottom are receiving less than they are giving while those at the top are well ahead then to my mind that's a subsidy. If the prize money was reworked so that the bottom clubs were at least not out of pocket then that anomaly would be removed.

OK - so you want affiliation fees scrapped?

If the status quo was maintained and John O'Sullivans figures are correct, then no affiliation fees would equal no prize money!


Unfortunately I can't find the figures for this year though, but 1st takes €100,000 of the €241,500 pot. When the top finishing clubs make a good deal of money from Europe anyway, I think it makes sense to move to a more graduated system.

Do you advocate some sort of football socialism?

[Mr A]

Do you think those would be worse options than money from those clubs having the roughest time going to those already making the most money? Nothing wrong with a bit of socialism here and there BTW.

I take it you are satisfied with the current system?

[Ezeikial]

I take it you are satisfied with the current system?

Currently - yes (for the first time in many years)

[El-Pietro]

Do you think those would be worse options than money from those clubs having the roughest time going to those already making the most money? Nothing wrong with a bit of socialism here and there BTW.

I take it you are satisfied with the current system?
I think we are in danger of focusing on the wrong issue here.

The issue is that the FAI take money out of the league every year (I'm sure Airtricity and others are paying nice fees for their sponsorship rights.) We need our clubs to work together to correct the main issues, not start turning on each other.

Its ridiculous that any club loses money just by entering the league, though I do think there should be prize money (perhaps its easy for me to say that as my team expects to be near the top each year) for finishing further up the table, if only to encourage teams to remain competitive further into the season. Perhaps some of the money that goes to the top teams can be redirected to teh middle, I'm not sure. But the FAI are the enemies here, not the other clubs.

[Mr A]

I agree that there should be more prize money at the top than bottom, just with smaller differentials. The clubs have never been united though, the "I'm all right Jack" attitude has always reigned supreme in the LOI, so won't be holding my breath waiting for them to drive the FAI towards reform.

[Dodge]

I agree that there should be more prize money at the top than bottom, just with smaller differentials. The clubs have never been united though, the "I'm all right Jack" attitude has always reigned supreme in the LOI, so won't be holding my breath waiting for them to drive the FAI towards reform.
It's been majority rule so not sure you can blame anyone in particular when clubs vote on issues about the league.

In fact blaming other clubs for anyone's problems is a cop out. I'm not suggesting clubs don't work together (far from it) but it is a competitive league after all. Even if affiliation fees were waved, clubs would still have the same problems. I think it's more likely to drag down clubs at top then drag up clubs at the bottom. Can't see how that's a good thing

[Nesta99]

Currently - yes (for the first time in many years)

Agreed, leave it as it is just at the moment::p

There shouldnt be a loss to compete in the league for any club. The team finsihing bottom of the First Division should get something more than the affiliation fee. Prizemoney shouldnt be based on the affiliation fee pot either otherwise the league is a bit of a cash cow (dont laugh) for the FAI and therefore serves does a purpose for disinterested in Abbotstown.

[nigel-harps1954]

The team finsihing bottom of the First Division should get something more than the affiliation fee.

This is the thing that gets me. The minimum prize a club in the league should get is at very least their affiliation fee back at the end of the year. I've no problem with the team finishing top of the league getting a fair whack of the total prize fund, as their finish merits such a prize.

What gets me, is that the total prize pot is so low, that teams aren't getting anything remotely worthwhile for their efforts outside the top two or three teams in the Premier Division. I believe the winners of the First Division only get 25,000, which is utterly pathetic over the course of a season where they may spend around 20 times that trying to win the division in the first place.

Surely the FAI would be well placed to put in half a million quid each season in prize money with a decent sponsorship package. That sort of fund could be comfortably spread among 20 teams with the winner still receiving their €100k+

[El-Pietro]

How much would the likes of Setanta (are Newstalk still sponsoring the league) put in each year. That plus the estimated amount for fines, and teh money the FAI are taking outof the affiliation fee should all be put back into the league each year.

F*** it, let them hand it out to clubs to help develop stadia/training facilities if they like. Oh wait... it is going towards paying for a staidum already.....

[Ezeikial]

are Newstalk still sponsoring the league

If a regular and committed LoI fan is unsure about that, then it hardly says much about the impact or Return on Investment possibilities for LoI sponsorship

[sullanefc]

No club should get less than their affiliation IMO. How much money are the FAI taking out for admin costs of the league (PR, Fran Gavin's wages etc)?

[Dodge]

If no club should get less than the license fee in return then why pay it at all?

[Charlie Darwin]

The minimum prize a club in the league should get is at very least their affiliation fee back at the end of the year.
That would be nice except we already know that the league generates next to no money other than what's put in by the clubs in affiliation fees and fines. As long as the FAI is running the league, that will be the case.

[Nesta99]

never mind.

[sullanefc]

If no club should get less than the license fee in return then why pay it at all?
Well I would have thought that in any league, the affiliation costs would go towards the running of the league (admin etc). It surely doesn't cost €380,000 (20 x €19,000) to run the LOI? Plus any sponsorship brought in (airtricity etc) should be offset against this cost. Any net profit from the league should be paid out then in prize money IMO.

As it stands, for me, the LOI looks like one big poker game and if you finish lower down the league you are losing your stake (or part thereof). Sport should not be like a game of poker. The worse off clubs should not be subsidising the better off.

It's also a con when it comes to announcing the prize fund. If an outsider saw the breakdown of the prize fund they might assume that this was all money that the FAI were paying out and it was all net profit for the clubs. When in actual fact, all it is, is a glorified poker pot. If it weren't for the affiliation fees, the prize fund would prob be close to nil (or worse) and this wouldn't look good for the association. It's optics IMO.

[JC_GUFC]

There probably are a fair few people employed by the league so 380k doesn't sound like a totally unreasonable cost to run it.
The problem is what do these people actually do. Does anyone know what Fran Gavin and Eamon Naughton (is he paid as chairman) are responsible for?
It just seems like there's no clear plan in place for the league and there needs to be more leadership from the top.
There are many things that could be developed to bring money in to the league, for example have the FAI approached companies like Perform to sell the league's streaming rights? So all this additional money that could and should be brought in could go to the prize pool.
Obviously the league could break away again but the same problem was there before with no leadership and Ollie Byrne just ran the show and used the rulebook to benefit Shels.
I've no real problem with how the prizes are distributed but obviously if it were financially rewarding to join the league there wouldn't be the issue of struggling to find an 8th team to join the First Division.

[Dodge]

I've no real problem with how the prizes are distributed but obviously if it were financially rewarding to join the league there wouldn't be the issue of struggling to find an 8th team to join the First Division.
A way around that would be to offset the affiliation fee for the first 3 years. If a club can't generate enough to cover it within 3 years, they really have no place in a professional league.

[tiktok]

That would be nice except we already know that the league generates next to no money other than what's put in by the clubs in affiliation fees and fines.
Not having a go but that simply isn't true.
While the FAI will never dispute the myth that the LoI is a financial burden, our league is a significant financial net contributor to the FAI even allowing for those working directly in it and for fees, fines and sponsorship. By the way, there are very few (if any) FAI employees who are full-time in the League office e.g. Look up Fran Gavin's actual job title.