Republic of Ireland V USA - Tuesday, 18th November 2014 - Friendly

[Charlie Darwin]

He came on as a sub and Ireland scored instantly. Hard to tell if the events are linked.

[DannyInvincible]

He came on late on, if that's what you mean. Didn't notice him much otherwise. We were very dominant during the latter period of the game.

[gastric]

I once mentioned Chris McCann as a left back option and got slaughtered over it. Now in a bizarre way I feel a little vindicated as if McClean could be deemed an option, so might McCann be. Great win, might the Scotland loss be an aberration? Was happy to see McGoldrick play quite well. I have been highlighting his ability over the last few months, nice to finally get something right. Christie is certainly a welcome addition too.

[DannyInvincible]

Great win, might the Scotland loss be an aberration?

It was. We were simply unlucky. Nothing more to be said about it. :p

[Crosby87]

This team only wins when I don't watch.

[backstothewall]

What we really need to do for Poland is find an Irish granny for Aaron Cresswell!!!

[Crosby87]

Did you hear about the Polish Godfather? He makes you an offer you can't understand.

[tricky_colour]

I take the point, but is there a first team as such yet?

The guys i would imagine The O'Neill is sure of are Forde, Coleman, O'Shea, McGeady, McCarthy & Long. That leaves 5 shirts up for grabs.

A couple of guys put their hands up tonight, and there are places in the team to be won.

Well I guess towards the end when we got a couple of goals it was more like our first team.

I guess you have to take into account the opposition and the fact it was a friendly,
however the USA are ranked above Scotland.

Did we miss Coleman McCarthy and Forde tonight? Not really.

[tetsujin1979]

early reflections on the game, and the current state of affairs US team from Grant Wahl: http://www.si.com/soccer/planet-futbol/2014/11/18/usa-ireland-friendly-loss-klinsmann-bedoya-usmnt

[Charlie Darwin]

early reflections on the game, and the current state of affairs US team from Grant Wahl: http://www.si.com/soccer/planet-futbol/2014/11/18/usa-ireland-friendly-loss-klinsmann-bedoya-usmnt
"Planet Futbol"

Shouldn't that be "Planeta Futbol"?

[tricky_colour]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DJB2NOTODQ&list=UUk1pcWQ5E19g0Cgp4c1eI1w
You always seem to be able to get quality video of US football.

[bishbash]

I don't see Brady as any more of a risk at left back than Ward has been. Ward defensively is poor & offers next to nothing going forward. It's argument that's been made for a while now that we have much better options in certain areas. Brady is not maldini but he's infinitely better than ward. In any case Id have him further forward. Maybe Cyrus Christie could play left back?

[OwlsFan]

I thought we were hopeless in the first half. I was sitting to the left behind the goal and Brady got caught out of position on a number of occasions.A stronger team would have punished us. I didn't realise Stokes was on the pitch and Murphy is not an international footballer.

Tempo went up a bit when some decent players were brought on although McGeady gave the ball away again in dangerous positions. USA defence went AWOL on a number of occasions (including leaving Long unmarked on the centre line).

Is it worth playing Brady for his dead ball delivery? Certainly an argument there for a team which is never going to create too many chances from open play.

Don't get this Given thing. Is he now our second choice keeper?

A few rating points and entertainment in the second half and reasonable debuts by the new boys.

[passinginterest]

I think the argument for Ward over Brady comes down to physical presence. Ward is bigger and stronger and that's a very highly valued commodity in football these days. Brady was pushed off the ball a bit too easily a few times last night and he's never going to win any battles in the air. That said I think he's definitely worth a risk in home games against weaker opposition, just not convinced he'd be the best bet against a top level team like Germany. If Christie proves to have ability at left back then it could answer all the problems, but I'd imagine he'd have gotten at least a run on that side last night if O'Neill was seriously considering it as an option.

[paul_oshea]

PI i was just going to post that the Brady v Ward comes down to aerial ability and strength, Ward shades it, positioning is imperative too, but I haven't seen brady enough times in that position the few times i have though he has been caught out. Which brings me onto McClean, my god are people really wanting him there? I hope those who are havent seen Costa Rica or portugal, he got roasted for 45 against Costa, his positioning his running his tackling was worse than any Ward performance - well maybe not worse but at least as bad as his worst performance.

I was looking at christie with left back in mind all night, he definitely looked a lot less comfortable on his left foot and coming left into the middle, I don't think he would be good enough for that position. What i really liked about him was his strength and pace, he is stronger on the ball and defending 1 on 1 than Coleman. Good to see that bit of brawn in defence something we have been lacking quite a bit lately. Dare I say it for the bigger games he might be used ahead of coleman, again its early days and he got caught out badly by an overhead ball but he looked assured defensively in the main.

[DeLorean]

I really enjoyed it. I agree with OF that for the most part we weren't very good in the first half, but with eleven changes that was no surprise. The early goal, and quality of it, kept us ticking over for a while and it was a bit of a treat watching Christie and Brady on the ball.

Has there been a more accomplished Irish debut than Christie's in recent times? I thought he was pretty faultless defensively and his composure on the ball was a joy to behold. I love that he's not afraid to take the more difficult pass at times also, it's that kind of bravery that helps get us on the front foot. He played one cross field pass to McClean (from a free kick) that summed up his confidence, vision and technique. I don't agree that he started nervously at all, it was a ninety minutes performance if ever I've seen one.

The Brady conundrum is an interesting one. I really enjoyed how composed he was in tight situations, little shimmies here and there to buy himself a few inches to retain possession. His passing and overlapping, as you'd expect, were superb and set pieces different class. Total contrast to Ward in all those aspects. He said himself that he was caught out of position a few times but believes that would improve with more game time in the position, no doubt it would. He was badly outmuscled once or twice but that was probably a result of being in the wrong position in the first place.

Overall I think we need him in the team further forward. McClean, like Long and Walters, should be used as impact subs for their energy and power when the game is more stretched. It would be demoralising for opponents trying to deal with those guys, fresh and hungry, when the match is entering the final stages. All three seem a bit too predictable to cause havoc when they start.

Tricky made the point about Long's run and shot off the post being like Gareth Bale's winner against Barcelona last season, that was exactly what I was thinking. The pace and power was frightening, really deserved the net to ripple too.

I was very impressed with Ciaran Clark and delighted it went well for him. He's a very talented footballer, I think he could be worth perciveering with while O'Shea is still around to teach him something. Pearce looks a seriously average footballer to me, and I don't trust Keogh at all.

Stokes was dreadful. I think he's lucky to be in the reckoning at all if I'm honest. I'd agree with those who said that McGoldrick offered little outside of his two brilliant assists, but that's a great nights work in any man's language.

I don't really see what Murphy can offer that the likes of Long or Walters can't. He did okay though.

Meyler and Quinn were committed and reasonably effective, their improvement as the game went on was crucial in turning the tide in our favour.

It was a really enjoyable atmosphere at Lansdowne, a lot of Americans, of course, which helped but plenty of support for our lads, which was great to see after the sobering events on Friday night.

I see John Delaney flirted with an apology to the fans in the match programme, he should really have put his hands up unconditionally and I think he'd have got more respect for it, albeit in a damage limitation sense.

[paul_oshea]

Well put Delorean. I'd agree with most of that but wouldnt get carried away with too many debuts just yet.

I wonder is McGoldrick a bit lazy? Nonchalant was an interesting word used for his pass, effortless would be another. Perhaps effortless is a word that sums him up full stop.

One thing I add to that is Quinn didnt learn from his German adventure, he left loads of space for beckerman or someone to run at defense and get a shot off. He should have been out closing down the space and blcoking the shot, in the end clark made a great block.

It sounded like a great atmosphere and the americans are always good from that side of things plus the girls love giving.......seriously though the openness of the game aided the crowd and it ended up being a good affair.

We wont get the same space against poland or scotland, in midfield or out on the wings, and especially when coming out of defence so we wouldnt have as many attacks like we had yesterday, still if we have more players like brady and christie who can take on a man to make space for themselves and get us on the front foot then thats the one and most important thing to take from the game.

[geysir]

I think the argument for Ward over Brady comes down to physical presence. Ward is bigger and stronger and that's a very highly valued commodity in football these days. Brady was pushed off the ball a bit too easily a few times last night and he's never going to win any battles in the air. That said I think he's definitely worth a risk in home games against weaker opposition, just not convinced he'd be the best bet against a top level team like Germany. If Christie proves to have ability at left back then it could answer all the problems, but I'd imagine he'd have gotten at least a run on that side last night if O'Neill was seriously considering it as an option.
Left back an issue but a minor one in the scheme of things. It's arguing over Forde or Westwood as if it will be the key change to transform our fortunes. Our stock back 4 can function okay and have done alright in their games.
I would have thought the issues are with style of play, midfield, the chronic issue of holding on to possession under pressure by increasing the passing tempo and movement. Then our pressing game is weak, it always has been weak. That's one main reason why Mulgrew could move around like a Pirlo and give a motm performance against us. Against England last night and teams that will put proper pressure, he can't cope.
The full back issue is a red herring, the margins of improvement that can be made there will not make that much of a difference and none at all if we don't work on the main issues which have an effect to create a platform for a full back to come into a game.

[DeLorean]

It's a game of inches Geysir, all improvements welcome, minor or otherwise. Everything put together will decide whether we make it or not. It could all come down to Westwood making a save that Forde wouldn't, or Forde claiming a cross that Westwood wouldn't. The full back discussion may not be such a close run thing anyway, Brady could be a revelation or time bomb in there, and if MON feels it's his only way of getting him into the team, then it could be worthwhile for set pieces alone. Certainly worth the discussion.

MON's approach for the home games is going to be intriguing. The way he's been talking, it's like he just wanted to get these nuisance away games out of the way with as little damage done as possible and really kick on in 2015. It seems a fairly strange philosophy but hopefully it works out. I honestly think we have a very decent pool of players and he has little excuse for not making it work.

[passinginterest]

Yep that's it. The full back positions won't solve all the ills of the team but they might make a minor improvement. Full backs see more of the ball than the majority of players and how they use it is absolutely vital to retaining possession for long spells. Playing from the back starts with the full back most of the time, if he can't pick a pass or is panicky on the ball it doesn't really matter how well the midfield is showing for it. Brady was a stark contrast to Ward in the position because he looked to find feet all the time, in similar situations Ward would more often than not chose the chipped ball down the line, as he doesn't have the same technical skill level. If the full back is feeding ball to his winger's feet, or to the centre mid dropping deep (again a potentially risky ball for a player lacking skill or confidence) it makes retaining the ball infinitely easier. Admittedly Ward has had to perform under pressure and against top level opponents and the same couldn't be said of Brady. Would he also revert to the "safer" ball if he was put under pressure or had a few more risky passes intercepted resulting in chances to opponents and damaged confidence? It's all about incremental improvements for the team at the moment considering how far confidence had seemingly dropped by the end of the Trap era. Given the disappointment of the Scottish performance it was good to see positive signs from some of the fringe players and areas where they might make a contribution to improving the first eleven.

[paul_oshea]

As Al Pacino I mean Delorean(talking a lot of sense) says it definitely is a game of inches, the leetle details taht can make the big difference. If Christie or brady or someone else can make that inch and in turn bring a midfielder into space with a littles less pressure and play the pass then its most certainly a big difference.

I have to say I have not been overly impressed with Hendrick and was never sure as I hadnt seen enough of him but thought like McCarthy he was being a bit overhyped. Bar that ball in Germany he hasnt done much and as said previously it was too soon against a very poor Italy side to be judging him and our midfield, who gave us oceans of space and were very underwhelming as their World cup showed.

While geysir is right the biggest problem is definitely our midfield and playing a higher line when we can and applying more pressure without the ball, there are definitely small details that can alleviate these problems.

[DeLorean]

Hendrick is a very good player but I think he needs the system to suit him. Hoolahan started that Italian game so we had a midfield three, in effect, like he has at Derby. That system gives him far more freedom to do what he's good at. MON picked him in a system that was set up to stop Scotland playing, I don't think that will ever be what he's about. In fact, Quinn or Meyler would have been a better bet if he had no intention of trying to win the game by playing football. I have no worries over Hendrick long term.

[boysingreen]

Christie at LB and Brady at LM for me.

[bishbash]

That was Bradys 1st game at left back for Ireland, Ward has had dozens and he's still a bombscare. I've yet to see him take a ball from the keeper and play a positive pass. And after many years as a left back his positioning is awful at times. IN any case if Clark can slot in at centre half Wilson could go left back. Brady has to play & has to be given time & patience, he has the quality we need

[DannyInvincible]

Last night was the USA's highest ever defeat to a team ranked outside FIFA's top 60. That's somewhat of an achievement, isn't it? Sort of...


Has there been a more accomplished Irish debut than Christie's in recent times?

Paul McShane versus the Cze... Actually, I best not tempt fate!


I see John Delaney flirted with an apology to the fans in the match programme, he should really have put his hands up unconditionally and I think he'd have got more respect for it, albeit in a damage limitation sense.

What did he write in the programme? Don't suppose you could post up a photo if too long to paraphrase? Many thanks!

[DannyInvincible]

Christie has said he can play/has played on the left before, but I think some of us are getting ever so slightly ahead of ourselves calling for his long-term inclusion at left-back already. We've never even seen him play there. In fact, we've seen only 90 minutes of the lad.

[Stuttgart88]

Defensively I thought Ward was fine in Glasgow and in the other games too. However in Glasgow the scots knew we had no attacking threat down that side which gave them license to attack us. So Ward can be a negative factor without actually doing anything wrong.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I know I cop a lot of flak for not treating Robbie Keane like a sacred cow and my opinions on him sometimes aren't orthodox.

My interpretation of what he said may be wrong, it may be right. At least I am not the one pushing my interpretation of what he said as the holy gospel truth and constantly making smart remarks about it.

Hey a lot of people gave me serious flak for my interpretation of the quotes of an up and coming Aston Villa footballer pre August and who turned out to be right about that in the long run?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I agree with a lot of what DeLorean said but I think Stokes showed decent enough technique playing out of position to become an option as striker or playing in a front 3.

People go on about Walters being important because of his workrate as if he has reinvented the wheel. Stokes played with a defensive mindset for Celtic in the Champions League and done perfectly well helping out the midfield.

The third goal last night wouldn't have happened either were it not for his persistence and doggedness in winning the ball back on the left wing.

Murphy showed enough to warrant inclusion in future squads imo.

I think we may have seen the last of Doyle, Cox and Sammon for a long, long time.

[BonnieShels]

I know I cop a lot of flak for not treating Robbie Keane like a sacred cow and my opinions on him sometimes aren't orthodox.

My interpretation of what he said may be wrong, it may be right. At least I am not the one pushing my interpretation of what he said as the holy gospel truth and constantly making smart remarks about it.

Hey a lot of people gave me serious flak for my interpretation of the quotes of an up and coming Aston Villa footballer pre August and who turned out to be right about that in the long run?

TOWK meet Paul...

[MeathDrog]

I agree with a lot of what DeLorean said but I think Stokes showed decent enough technique playing out of position to become an option as striker or playing in a front 3.

People go on about Walters being important because of his workrate as if he has reinvented the wheel. Stokes played with a defensive mindset for Celtic in the Champions League and done perfectly well helping out the midfield.

The third goal last night wouldn't have happened either were it not for his persistence and doggedness in winning the ball back on the left wing.

Murphy showed enough to warrant inclusion in future squads imo.

I think we may have seen the last of Doyle, Cox and Sammon for a long, long time.

Was that not Quinn?

[DeLorean]

What did he write in the programme? Don't suppose you could post up a photo if too long to paraphrase? Many thanks!

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b581/Joco1981/Mobile%20Uploads/20141119_175305_zpsk5zz718w.jpg

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Was that not Quinn?

My apologies. I was on about Brady's first goal, the second goal.

[SwanVsDalton]

I know I cop a lot of flak for not treating Robbie Keane like a sacred cow and my opinions on him sometimes aren't orthodox.

This isn't why you cop flak.

You're banging on here like you're the Galileo to the foot.ie established thinking, and you're being targeted for Robbie hereticism.

But really most of what you say is bog-standard Robbie bashing dressed up in a barely-there argument. Wind your neck. This is the Ireland vs USA thread and Robbie wasn't even playing.


I agree with a lot of what DeLorean said but I think Stokes showed decent enough technique playing out of position to become an option as striker or playing in a front 3.

People go on about Walters being important because of his workrate as if he has reinvented the wheel. Stokes played with a defensive mindset for Celtic in the Champions League and done perfectly well helping out the midfield.

The third goal last night wouldn't have happened either were it not for his persistence and doggedness in winning the ball back on the left wing.

Murphy showed enough to warrant inclusion in future squads imo.

I think we may have seen the last of Doyle, Cox and Sammon for a long, long time.

You mean the second goal? Stokes was off when McClean scored.

Stokes was poor overall and didn't take his chance last night. I don't feel like going out of the way to defend him, when Brady, Christie, McGoldrick et al can do that for themselves on the pitch. There's few opportunities like last night, and Stokes didn't do it for me.

I'm happy to see Murphy in the squad though, again, he could have done more last night. He should have had one, if not two goals (personally feel he should have thrown himself at Pilkington's cross in the second half). I also don't think he offers nearly as much in link-up play of physicality as Walters. But he deserves a squad place, and I'm pleased for him despite my doubting him in the past.

[MeathDrog]

My apologies. I was on about Brady's first goal, the second goal.

Yes but looking at it again Quinn did appear to be the one who put him under the most pressure. Stokes put him under pressure just as he was desperately hoofing it away after Quinn backed him near his own goal line.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It's not me bringing up Keane and bashing myself simultaneously on several threads. I am taking the bait though.

It's the same - no more deserving of controversy imo - as people criticising Ward, McShane, Sammon, Whelan *insert footballer* and perceiving faults, some of which are imaginary. It's the equivalent of going into a room you have been told is haunted and you start "seeing and feeling things" because all your senses are heightened and you are expecting to see something. I just happen to criticise someone who is, sometimes, beyond criticism. And that's perfectly understandable with his record. I am judging him on recent performances, not 4/5 years old performances.

And about the quotes. Hey I could be right. I could be wrong. People are equally guilty of playing fast and loose with their interpretation of up and coming Aston Villa player's quotes. We can all be stubborn sometimes.

I thought the tone of his post match interview was needlessly hostile, I got a hint of questioning the manager's tactics and I thought this wording was strange: "If the manager wants to play with one up front, I'm not f***ing Niall Quinn or I'm not Shane Long - they are better at that than I am. If you play two up front and you want to score goals, that's my game."

We should have played Robbie if we wanted to score goals. Back to the drawing board for Poland then..

That's my honest opinion. May be wrong but hey opinions are like a.... They make the world go around.

[SwanVsDalton]

It's not me bringing up Keane and bashing myself simultaneously on several threads. I am taking the bait though.

It's the same as people criticising Ward, McShane, Sammon, Whelan *insert footballer* and perceiving faults, some of which are imaginary. It's the equivalent of going into a room you have been told is haunted and you start "seeing and feeling things" because all your senses are heightened and you are expecting to see something. I just happen to criticise someone who is, sometimes, beyond criticism. And that's perfectly understandable with his record. I am judging him on recent performances, not 4/5 years old performances.

And about the quotes. Hey I could be right. I could be wrong. People are equally guilty of playing fast and loose with their interpretation of up and coming Aston Villa player's quotes. We can all be stubborn sometimes.

I thought the tone of his post match interview was needlessly hostile, I got a hint of questioning the manager's tactics and I thought this wording was strange: "If the manager wants to play with one up front, I'm not f***ing Niall Quinn or I'm not Shane Long - they are better at that than I am. If you play two up front and you want to score goals, that's my game."

That's my honest opinion. May be wrong but hey opinions are like a.... They make the world go around.

Keane isn't beyond criticism. No one thinks that or has said it (feel free to correct me with a post if I'm wrong). If you perceive he gets defended more than Ward, or Sammon or whoever, it's because he's one of our greatest players ever and probably the greatest goal scorer we'll ever have.

He's EARNED that defence, that what 65 goals and 120 odd caps gets you. There's no comparison between Robbie Keane and any of those you mentioned.

As for your amorphous 'people' criticising Ward, Sammon et al - everyone's got favourites and bete noires. But that doesn't make defending Robbie Keane conspiratorial - it's just that most people disagree with you. It's actually that simple.

Be honest, of course by all means, but don't get all twisted up if a load of people think you're wackadoo. Opinions, world going round - it happens.

[geysir]

It's a game of inches Geysir, all improvements welcome, minor or otherwise. Everything put together will decide whether we make it or not. It could all come down to Westwood making a save that Forde wouldn't, or Forde claiming a cross that Westwood wouldn't. The full back discussion may not be such a close run thing anyway, Brady could be a revelation or time bomb in there, and if MON feels it's his only way of getting him into the team, then it could be worthwhile for set pieces alone. Certainly worth the discussion.

MON's approach for the home games is going to be intriguing. The way he's been talking, it's like he just wanted to get these nuisance away games out of the way with as little damage done as possible and really kick on in 2015. It seems a fairly strange philosophy but hopefully it works out. I honestly think we have a very decent pool of players and he has little excuse for not making it work.
There are inches and there are yards, we need yards before inches can matter. When you focus on inches you are intent to fine tune something that is almost functional and we are not functional yet.
Like upgrading a computer's ram but it has no effect on performance because the processor is too slow. Debate/discussion on goalkeeping, full back issues is good but debating a change in either, as if it will make a difference overall in our scheme of things, is veering on scapegoating.
To have Wilson over Ward at LB. the effect was marginal, we still played the same, had the same tactics, he looks just as dodgy and we still lost crucial games. He has definite more ability on the ball but the effect is minimal if the team is dysfunctional.
We have little idea how we will approach the home games and for my money, as we saw in the home games v Austria and Sweden, our negative mono approach nullified individual abilities and cost us the games. We have a hope that O'Neill will shape something more effective, but the shape is not going to come with a few marginal decisions.

[DannyInvincible]

I know I cop a lot of flak for not treating Robbie Keane like a sacred cow and my opinions on him sometimes aren't orthodox.

I have to hand it to you; you're such a charlatan, you really are. You know rightly that's not the reason why you cop the flak. It's the clear agendas in the face of or with lack of evidence and the unreasonable bias that people take issue with; not your "unorthodox" views. Stop trying to bask in being "out there" as if you're setting us all right from our hackneyed ways.

Have you heard Robbie's post-match interview to judge his tone or have you simply read the quotes through your anti-Robbie shades?


Hey a lot of people gave me serious flak for my interpretation of the quotes of an up and coming Aston Villa footballer pre August and who turned out to be right about that in the long run?

You turned out to be right?... Did you?

[Charlie Darwin]

I hope Robbie retires just to stop this argument.

[BonnieShels]

...and Jon Walters...

[DeLorean]

Has there been a more accomplished Irish debut than Christie's in recent times


Paul McShane versus the Cze... Actually, I best not tempt fate!

Good call on McShane, although Koller had the last laugh. Interestingly enough, The Score created their own list.

Power ranking the 8 most memorable Irish international footballing debuts (http://thescore.thejournal.ie/power-ranking-8-most-memorable-irish-footballing-debuts-1788345-Nov2014/?utm_source=facebook_short)

[BonnieShels]

That lapse against Koller was actually a sign of things to come. We should have nipped it in the bud then.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

...and Jon Walters...

Yes the same Jon Walters whose recent performances I complimented and about whom I said that I may have been hasty in saying that he didn't have a place in the team. :rolleyes:

[BonnieShels]

Even when you're contrite you have to have a comeback.

You really can't take a slagging at all can you?

Even mypost in all his psychotic spacecadet glory took his slagging.

[geysir]

The advent of TOWK has promoted memories of Mypost into the fondly dysfunctional category.

[BonnieShels]

STOWKholm Syndrome I think it's called.

[SkStu]

plenty of school kids as well which is good to see.

http://imalbum.aufeminin.com/album/D20081006/475761_LSDXI248RSE7TXBYNL7UG8J7HZQAD8_300px-kennethwilliams_H020213_L.jpg

[DeLorean]

Bump.

[DeLorean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPna9D8pk6w