Scotland V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 14th November 2014 - Euro 2016 Qualifier [Archive] - Page 4

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 10:26 AM

Still at this I see. It should be read in the context of what he said earlier: "Of course I thought about it ((retiring)) but the thought of never putting on a green jersey again was difficult to come round to and even now I am dreading that. I want to play as long as I can for my country and as long as I am fit and healthy and the manager picks me, I will play".

In other words he will play for as long as he can (unlike many high profile internationals these days) but once he is no longer fit, or healthy or selected, he will retire. What more do you want him to do? Give blood?

That quote come before or after the uproar caused by his other quotes? To answer your question, I wouldn't mind him accepting rotation and being available off the bench. It could prolong his Intl. career by another couple of years. He doesn't have to start to be useful to the team.

And I don't appreciate the tone. If you look back in the thread you know full well I didn't bring Keane up out of thin air; it wasn't me who brought him up at all in fact. It was someone else bringing him up and using him as a stick to beat me with over my opinion on another, completely unrelated, subject.

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 10:35 AM

Fair enough but you were replying to a post which headed with that Keane nonsense /victimhood.
I just ignore his posts, that's not an 'off with his head' attitude, it's called silent action, a quite progressive and effective action :)

Ah you say that geysir but you still haven't put me on your ignore list. ;)

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 10:38 AM

McCarthy playing in a game with this kind of atmosphere and hostility could only benefit Everton I think. Whether he produces or not on the night wouldn't even matter too much, to them, as the experience would stand to him no end. If anything, we are the ones who stand to lose more by his availability. If, as a lot of the Scots seem to think, Brown starts getting the better of him due to his greater mental strength, that would give the home support a massive lift and it could become a very difficult evening for McCarthy. It really is an opportunity for McCarthy to show that he has grown into the player we know he came be, in terms of ability but particularly in terms of temperament.

The same Brown who is a red card waiting to happen?

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 11:01 AM

@ DI

Exasperation is mutual.
Agree to disagree re: Keane (not me constantly bringing it up as a topic!)
Agree to disagree re: Grealish (how do you equate someone saying "he turned down call up" with someone saying "he is deceiving us"?)
Yes even your last post was extremely patronizing.

If all you get from what I say is that Keane and Grealish are spinning webs of deceit then fine but that's not what I'm saying at all, even if it's not as complimentary or approving as some would like.

DeLorean

29/10/2014, 11:09 AM

The same Brown who is a red card waiting to happen?

I was talking about Scott Brown who plays midfield for Scotland and Celtic... looks a bit like Kieran Donaghy. If somebody said (or you feel) he's a red card waiting to happen then yes, the same Brown.

DannyInvincible

29/10/2014, 11:32 AM

And I don't appreciate the tone. If you look back in the thread you know full well I didn't bring Keane up out of thin air; it wasn't me who brought him up at all in fact. It was someone else bringing him up and using him as a stick to beat me with over my opinion on another, completely unrelated, subject.

It was related in so far as it demonstrated inconsistency in terms of your interpretation of different players' words. You (mis)interpret whatever set of words you wish to suit your agenda.

Agree to disagree re: Grealish (how do you equate someone saying "he turned down call up" with someone saying "he is deceiving us"?)

But you've often made the claim that he's hiding his true intentions - those allegedly being to play for England - from us, haven't you?

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 11:47 AM

It was related in so far as it demonstrated inconsistency in terms of your interpretation of different players' words. You (mis)interpret whatever set of words you wish to suit your agenda.

But you've often made the claim that he's hiding his true intentions - those allegedly being to play for England - from us, haven't you?

There you go again. Saying I'm (mis)interpreting something. Very patronizing. I have said from the start that it's simply my interpretation and it differs from yours. It doesn't mean I'm right and it doesn't mean you're right.

I have a memory like a sieve, but I honestly don't think I ever definitively said that he's hiding his true intentions to play for England. I simply stated that he may have a pull towards playing for England and backed this up as best I could. And in fairness, that was the worst case scenario that had everyone here panicking just two months ago. I've said several times that he's ours to lose now but I'm not going to hatch my chickens yet especially after the rollercoaster ride of events over the last several months. U.S.A. game is a friendly game. Kevin & Jack Grealish think this is the right time to showcase Jack. I'm not going to definitively claim that this and that is their intention.

Closed Account

29/10/2014, 2:31 PM

36 man squad named:

David Forde,
Shay Given,
Keiren Westwood,
Darren Randolph,
Rob Elliot,

Richard Keogh,
Marc Wilson,
Seamus Coleman,
John O’Shea,
Alex Pearce,
Brian Lenihan,
Stephen Kelly,
Paul McShane,
Damien Delaney,
Shane Duffy,
Ciaran Clark,
Stephen Ward,

James McCarthy,
Jeff Hendrick,
Glenn Whelan,
Darron Gibson,
Paul Green,
Aiden McGeady,
Anthony Pilkington,
James McClean,
Robbie Brady,
Stephen Quinn,
David Meyler,

Robbie Keane,
Shane Long,
Daryl Murphy,
Jon Walters,
Kevin Doyle,
Anthony Stokes,
Simon Cox,
Conor Sammon.

DeLorean

29/10/2014, 2:32 PM

Nothing to see here (http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/o%E2%80%99neill-names-provisional-squad-for-scotland-usa)

Stuttgart88

29/10/2014, 2:35 PM

Is Randolph's Twitter username something to do with his goal concession rate?

5 goalies. Weird.

Glenn Whelan even when crocked. Even weirder.

Charlie Darwin

29/10/2014, 2:40 PM

Whelan's injury is a crack in the bone so could conceivably be healed in time.

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 2:41 PM

5 keepers
Lenihan
Kelly
McShane
Injured Whelan
Green
Cox
Sammon

They're just not trying very hard, are they? Some continuously strange selection decisions again.

Closed Account

29/10/2014, 2:52 PM

5 keepers
Lenihan
Kelly
McShane
Injured Whelan
Green
Cox
Sammon

They're just not trying very hard, are they? Some continuously strange selection decisions again.
36 Man Squad, 13 of which will be dropped. No harm in it. Managers prerogative.

paul_oshea

29/10/2014, 2:54 PM

No Grealish or Christie? Will they be called up after or something? Seems strange.

They could definitely look to another few options.

Charlie Darwin

29/10/2014, 2:56 PM

As with every previous squad, he's called up more or less everyone who's available (and some who aren't) to let them know he's thinking of them. I don't know why people are continually surprised by the same outcome.

paul_oshea

29/10/2014, 3:04 PM

That he is not thinking of others?

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 3:07 PM

It would send a greater message to players like O'Kane, Arter, Judge, Williams and Doherty if he called them up and analysed them, at least for the U.S.A game, rather than continuously selecting players like Kelly who are unfit/haven't started games in over 10 months.

Unlike Poland & Scotland, we seem to limit personnel to players of a certain age 26+ who have amassed 10+ appearances who are ingrained in the squad, regardless of club form or fitness. Lenihan is just an anomaly that harkens back to Trap's call up of Clifford. It is up in the air if he is good enough at this level and he will, in most likelihood, not see any realistic game time.

You just have to take a shot and just give players chances. There is a reason why we always have such old squads.

There is every chance someone like Judge or Williams, if given a chance, could make an impact similar to Maczynski; certainly more so than 31 year old Paul Green. As it stands it looks like there is a serious barrier to any new entries for the foreseeable future, maybe the rest of this campaign. Which is unfortunate for them.

Charlie Darwin

29/10/2014, 3:08 PM

If you're not in the squad, you can probably assume you won't be any time soon. Grealish, McGoldrick and Christie are presumably still in the plans but unavailable for various reasons.

DeLorean

29/10/2014, 3:14 PM

Check out the first reply to this...

FAI Twitter Squad Announcement (https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/527481514318389249)

#Sledge

Charlie Darwin

29/10/2014, 3:18 PM

Check out the first reply to this...

FAI Twitter Squad Announcement (https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/527481514318389249)

#Sledge
Fourth one is pretty good too.

Stuttgart88

29/10/2014, 3:21 PM

It's uninspiring that he includes the same tired old faces, no doubt, and I'd love to see some early tenure McCarthy like imagination at the margins - just for the message it sends. But again we're talking at the margins. The dead wood will be chopped and we'll have our strongest 23 or whatever and barring injuries Green, Cox, Sammon et al will all be watching it on the telly along with those season ticket holders who traveled to Kazakhstan and Armenia.

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 3:24 PM

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/oneill-i-wont-force-jack-grealish-into-making-any-decision-30702604.html

"I suggested to his father that he might want to get involved with Oman game and still not wanting to commit myself. The father sent me a message to say he would concentrate on the U21s at that time. I’ve left it since then. And there’s been no conversation since then."

DeLorean

29/10/2014, 3:41 PM

I found this bit even more interesting...

"I’m not going to force it. It would be nice to hear someone come up and say this is what I want to do."

shakermaker1982

29/10/2014, 3:46 PM

Simon Cox has 30 caps?! Bloody hell.

That's the most interesting thing about the squad announcement.

TheOneWhoKnocks

29/10/2014, 3:48 PM

I found this bit even more interesting...

"I’m not going to force it. It would be nice to hear someone come up and say this is what I want to do."

True. Someone taking that kind of initiative would be nice.

Charlie Darwin

29/10/2014, 4:27 PM

Matt Doherty retweeted this earlier:

Shaun Shields ‏@ShaunShields (https://twitter.com/ShaunShields) 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/ShaunShields/status/527492096924860417)
How can the @FAIreland (https://twitter.com/FAIreland) call up young Brian Lenihan who has yet to play for Hull ahead of @OfficialWolves (https://twitter.com/OfficialWolves) regular RB @mattdoherty20 (https://twitter.com/mattdoherty20). Strange

Stuttgart88

29/10/2014, 5:17 PM

Doherty has every right to be miffed. Some others do too to a lesser extent.

Has the Grealish pendulum stayed where it was or swung back towards England?

The first 23 is largely not open to debate, bar Doherty. The remsining 14 contains some stale, lazy and unimaginative selections - though if we had a midfield crisis I'd prefer Green in Glasgow to O'Kane, say.

How long does it take for McGoldrick and co to get a passport?

Dunners

29/10/2014, 6:01 PM

Really surprised no McGoldrick or Christie. Grealish should have been approached , at least it would have a little clearer if he had been given a decision to make , it's not like a friendly would have tied him. Training with the big boys would have been a good experience for him , they could have even cut him with the rest if the deadwood.

paul_oshea

29/10/2014, 6:19 PM

tetsujin1979

29/10/2014, 10:55 PM

Thread reopened, no idea why it was locked in the first place

Charlie Darwin

29/10/2014, 10:57 PM

Thread reopened, no idea why it was locked in the first place
You went power mad, tets. Do you not remember?

tetsujin1979

29/10/2014, 11:00 PM

You went power mad, tets. Do you not remember?
nuh-uh, unless there's some sort of Tyler Durden situation going on?

Philly

29/10/2014, 11:04 PM

Charlie Darwin

29/10/2014, 11:10 PM

nuh-uh, unless there's some sort of Tyler Durden situation going on?
You were laughing maniacally and posting links to YBIG all over the place. I was afraid to say anything in case you had me killed.

Charlie Darwin

29/10/2014, 11:12 PM

Irish Examiner reporting tomorrow (or, today, I guess) that Gibson is now an injury doubt after picking up a training injury. Not food news considering Whelan and Hoolahan are already doubtful and out. Really need a decent midfield pair for this one.
Hopefully it's only minor as Gibson needs game-time as much for his Everton future as we need him for this game. With Hoolahan out, we'll need somebody with the confidence to play intelligent forward passes.

DannyInvincible

29/10/2014, 11:30 PM

Unlike Poland & Scotland, we seem to limit personnel to players of a certain age 26+ who have amassed 10+ appearances who are ingrained in the squad, regardless of club form or fitness. Lenihan is just an anomaly that harkens back to Trap's call up of Clifford. It is up in the air if he is good enough at this level and he will, in most likelihood, not see any realistic game time.

You just have to take a shot and just give players chances. There is a reason why we always have such old squads.

You say you want the management to take a shot and give players chances straight after you criticise the current management for taking a shot with Linehan and the former management for taking a shot with Clifford? Make your mind up.

Players with ten or less caps or aged 26 or under in the squad:

Rob Elliot
Darren Randolph
Ciaran Clark
Damien Delaney
Richard Keogh
Alex Pearce
Shane Duffy
Séamus Coleman
Brian Lenihan
Stephen Quinn
James McClean
James McCarthy
David Meyler
Robbie Brady
Jeff Hendrick
Anthony Pilkington
Connor Sammon
Anthony Stokes

Is it really as bad as you're making out?

ArdeeBhoy

29/10/2014, 11:43 PM

Good collation DI, but three of the second list should not play again IMO.

DannyInvincible

29/10/2014, 11:47 PM

Ah, I just tidied them up into a solitary list, but here were the two separate lists I'd originally made again.

Players aged 26 or under in the squad:

Ciaran Clark
Alex Pearce
Shane Duffy
Séamus Coleman
Brian Lenihan
James McClean
James McCarthy
David Meyler
Robbie Brady
Jeff Hendrick
Anthony Pilkington
Anthony Stokes

Players with ten or less caps in the squad:

Rob Elliot
Darren Randolph
Ciaran Clark
Damien Delaney
Richard Keogh
Alex Pearce
Shane Duffy
Brian Lenihan
Stephen Quinn
Robbie Brady
Jeff Hendrick
Anthony Pilkington
Connor Sammon
Anthony Stokes

Stuttgart88

30/10/2014, 8:29 AM

Good work Danny, thanks. That said, I have to say I do share TOWK's frustration at some of the selections, although as I repeatedly point out, it's only for the marginal places.

It's not so much the lack of imagination in itself, it's that it follows straight off the back of a manager who often didn't seem aware of the broader options and who made some erratic selections, but more importantly, O'Neill seems to be peddling that tired old line used by Trap "there's nothing coming through, I just don't see it. We do t have the quality". There are talented players coming through but their pathway is clogged up by the huge influx of players from all over the world in England, many of who are mediocre. International recognition and exposure could be a useful leg up.

Anyway, even with Gibson, Whelan and Hoolahan injured or a doubt there is still McCarthy, Meyler, Hendrick and Quinn as CM options, and one or two who could fill the Hoolahan role, most notably Brady. If Gibson does withdraw I can see Green being called up and that doesn't scare me at all. If he can do a job in Sweden he can do a job in Glasgow.

ArdeeBhoy

30/10/2014, 8:48 AM

Yeap, it's all set up now to be a bore-draw...

Stuttgart88

30/10/2014, 11:04 AM

Martinez quoted on The Score saying Gibson is fine.

ArdeeBhoy

30/10/2014, 11:06 AM

Aye, but another game before then, pray he doesn't play this weekend, or Coleman, or McCarthy, or McGeady...

DannyInvincible

30/10/2014, 11:15 AM

Good collation DI, but three of the second list should not play again IMO.

Out of interest, who are the three? I assume Sammon is one of them. Is Stokes another and maybe one of the keepers?

ArdeeBhoy

30/10/2014, 11:19 AM

Stokes and Keogh, so not bad guesswork.

The keepers are a bit of an unknown quantity. At least one of them should have played v.the theme park...

TheOneWhoKnocks

30/10/2014, 4:05 PM

You say you want the management to take a shot and give players chances straight after you criticise the current management for taking a shot with Linehan and the former management for taking a shot with Clifford? Make your mind up.

Players with ten or less caps or aged 26 or under in the squad:

Rob Elliot
Darren Randolph
Ciaran Clark
Damien Delaney
Richard Keogh
Alex Pearce
Shane Duffy
Séamus Coleman
Brian Lenihan
Stephen Quinn
James McClean
James McCarthy
David Meyler
Robbie Brady
Jeff Hendrick
Anthony Pilkington
Connor Sammon
Anthony Stokes

Is it really as bad as you're making out?

Ah Danny I know you are frustrated about me being proven right about Jack Grealish again :p but you have got to see the crux of my point, no?

I criticised the calling up of Clifford and I criticised the call up of Lenihan. I'm remaining consistent, despite my contrasting opinions on Trapattoni & O'Neill. Lenihan will remain uncapped. He is a token call up. There are at least half-a-dozen players playing in the PL, Championship and maybe even L1 who could all come in and do a job right now.

Clark is 25, Pearce is almost 26, Coleman is 26, McClean is 25, Meyler is 25, Pilkington is 26 and Stokes is 26 so I think you are being pretty fussy there. Every other player has been given his first cap by Trapattoni. Calling up Lenihan instead of Doherty (and one or two others) is very strange and, allied with the persistence in calling Stephen Kelly up, points to waiting for Cyrus Christie to get his passport and a complete lack of faith or awareness in Irish born RB's playing in England.

Players under ten caps - most of them are one or two caps under, all have been given their debut's under another manager and some (Delaney) have been around treading water for over 6 years.

But again if you want to be fussy and avoid the crux of the issue, be my guest.

DannyInvincible

30/10/2014, 5:09 PM

Ah Danny I know you are frustrated about me being proven right about Jack Grealish again :p

Hehe, how do you work that one out then? Maybe O'Neill just didn't fancy calling up a player who's played no more than 100 minutes of Premier League football as a substitute?

but you have got to see the crux of my point, no?

I do and I'm all for imagination, but Stutts showed much greater nuance above in making that point. You don't have to wildly exaggerate claims and figures in order to present a valid argument on this matter.

Lenihan will remain uncapped. He is a token call up.

To whom is it a token gesture exactly?

Clark is 25, Pearce is almost 26, Coleman is 26, McClean is 25, Meyler is 25, Pilkington is 26 and Stokes is 26 so I think you are being pretty fussy there. Every other player has been given his first cap by Trapattoni. Calling up Lenihan instead of Doherty (and one or two others) is very strange and, allied with the persistence in calling Stephen Kelly up, points to waiting for Cyrus Christie to get his passport and a complete lack of faith or awareness in Irish born RB's playing in England.

Players under ten caps - most of them are one or two caps under, all have been given their debut's under another manager and some (Delaney) have been around treading water for over 6 years.

Hey, look; you set those parameters. You make the point much better when you refine your analysis, as you've done immediately above. :good:

Stuttgart88

30/10/2014, 5:15 PM

As I said, I share TOWK's concerns here but I really do find it hard to believe he just isn't aware of Matt Doherty. That'd be a dereliction of duty. Not rating him is another matter, but that opens the question of on what grounds can he rate Lenihan higher.

As things stand Meyler seems to be Coleman's back up. Others in the back four can play across the back four too. But then that leaves open the issue of Kelly who - and I'm taking my info from TOWK here - isn't even fit. He certainly isn't playing anyway. Bizarre.