Scotland V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 14th November 2014 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think anybody is writing him off, but I think he gets more credit than he's due. He's a leader alright and a hard worker with a decent touch, but talent-wise I wouldn't have him ahead of McArthur for them.

[Junior]

I don't think anybody is writing him off, but I think he gets more credit than he's due. He's a leader alright and a hard worker with a decent touch, but talent-wise I wouldn't have him ahead of McArthur for them.

Not sure I agree with that but even if it was the case, I'd have Brown ahead of Whelan, Quinn and possibly Gibson (based on form/influence to date for Ireland) in our team. Hendrick has looked good but still doesn't have anywhere near the experience that Brown has. Anyway, I suppose the point has been laboured, I don't think he's the world's best or anything but the central midfield battle will be fairly evenly matched I'd imagine.

[geysir]

Who was writing off Brown?
I said he was still off his pace after his return from injury, when i watched him a few games back.
That's not writing him off.
Shove it Junior! :)

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness to junior there have been a few on here in the last while saying Brown isn't up to much. I think he'd have been a mainstay in our team for years tbh.

[geysir]

In fairness to junior there have been a few on here in the last while saying Brown isn't up to much. I think he'd have been a mainstay in our team for years tbh.
There's always one ..... Kingdom -- (on this thread).

[ArdeeBhoy]

His injury and disciplinary record have also been a factor. Hard to say how good he is in absolute terms, but in recent times when he hasn't played, Celtic have struggled without him.

Junior been bang on with his comments in this thread, but won't praise further, on the basis it might offend Fly...

[Crosby87]

Cyrus Christie will scare the Scots blind.

[The Donie Forde]

"British Cup tie"- Ireland isn't part of Britian[sic]

Sic, correctly used?

[ArdeeBhoy]

There's a lot of assumptions both teams will have their strongest sides out.
Even if MO'N/we knew ours for sure, doubt it would find universal favour and Alba are at home, where I can't see them rolling over to far better teams than us, so still a draw for me.

[Crosby87]

What does Alba mean?
There was some Elvis Presley fest in Hacketstown last weekend according to the belated Irish news I saw on PBS. Any of you attend? I could see Nigel Harps in his Elvis costume.

[Charlie Darwin]

Alba is Scotland.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What does Alba mean?

Google not reached NYC?
:wink:

[Crosby87]

I saw some Albas outside the Twisted Kilt bar and they were like "Ooch. Aye." Albas seem to talk that way alot.

[The Fly]

What does Alba mean?


It's a Gaelic name for Scotland.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm sure you've heard "Alba gu bràth" before at the end of William Wallace's freedom speech in Braveheart, Crosby?:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEOOZDbMrgE

It's the Scots' equivalent of the famous Irish phrase, "Éirinn go brách", meaning "Ireland forever".

In fact, I'm pretty sure your state capital, Albany, and words such as "albino" share similar etymological roots, probably derived ultimately from Latin and/or whatever came before it. Alba/Albain/bán all mean "white" in Scottish/Irish Gaelic; the name is in reference to the white of the snowy highlands, hills and mountain tops, I believe.

[DeLorean]

Alba

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx58/spadge68/wallpapers/jessica%20alba/JessicaAlbaBikini.jpg

[Junior]

Who was writing off Brown?
I said he was still off his pace after his return from injury, when i watched him a few games back.
That's not writing him off.
Shove it Junior! :)

Sorry geysir, did you even post? can't say I noticed it.


There's always one ..... Kingdom -- (on this thread).

Kingdom and a few other posts too (oh and Geysir now that he's 'fessed up). Not sure if I said people are writing him off exactly (but I haven't gone back and checked my posts) but its more the fact they stated he wouldn't get in our first 11 (and nor would McArthur based on the 2 or 3 Scots that were named as the only players that would be taken in the Irish first 11). That to me just seems a little green blinkered. As I said, the central midfield will be fairly evenly matched.



Junior been bang on with his comments in this thread, but won't praise further, on the basis it might offend Fly...

Do I know this Fly character per chance?


What does Alba mean?
There was some Elvis Presley fest in Hacketstown last weekend according to the belated Irish news I saw on PBS. Any of you attend? I could see Nigel Harps in his Elvis costume.

I hope Stokesy was not in attendance, that could have got messy....

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, Junior. But lest I offend some sensitive soul won't comment further/mention again!

[geysir]

A more compassionate Ardeebhoy??

[DannyInvincible]

McGeady's looking forward to his Celtic Park return: http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/scotland-v-republic-ireland-aiden-4469618


...

And the Everton star admits he is looking forward to the Parkhead clash – even though he expects a “warm” welcome from the Scotland fans.

He said said: “It should be good to play in Glasgow, especially the fact it’s going to be at Parkhead and there will probably be as many Irish fans there as Scottish ones.

“It was always going to be a huge game anyway, regardless of recent results, but we are sitting in a good position.

“It will be difficult but we’re going into the game with a lot of confidence.

“I’m pretty happy with the season so far. I have been playing most of the time for Everton and every game for Ireland.

“In the second half against Germany I grew into the game and got a bit more possession. Under previous managers I probably would have been taken off in a game like that.

“But the gaffer gave me my debut at Celtic then played me in Champions League matches so I have a lot of things to thank him for.

“I came close to signing for him when he was at Villa and Sunderland and now he is the Ireland manager.

“Deep down knowing that he has a lot of faith in me helps."

[Charlie Darwin]

I think the subtext is pretty clear: he finally has a manager who believes in him, and so far he appears to be thriving. Long may it continue.

[geysir]

Most every other manager would have subbed McGeady in both games, v Georgia and Germany.
He says he came close to signing for Villa and Sunderland,
so those worthless, useless, much derided, baseless rumours at those times, actually had some merit?

[DannyInvincible]

Alba

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx58/spadge68/wallpapers/jessica%20alba/JessicaAlbaBikini.jpg

Alba forgo bra?

[OwlsFan]

Alba is Scotland.

Not to be confused with Alaba :(

2176

[Crosby87]

Never actually saw Braveheart.
We must defeat Alba though. The late great Colbert Report would have wanted it that way.
PS Jessica Alba's company was valued at a Billion Dollars earlier this week. Organic is where the money is Chaps.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why! What happened to Colbert Report?

[Stuttgart88]

Not to be confused with Alaba :(

2176
Or a Chinese internet company / Arabian folk character

[Philly]

Both Hoolahan and Whelan are injured for this one now. I think McCarthy and Gibson and most likely to start in the middle now, which wouldn't be bad at all IMO. Quinn seems to have lost his place in the Hull team, which won't help him.

[paul_oshea]

I think we needed hoolahan along with keane for this one, though gibson did alright with keane the last day.

I'd say hoolahan could still play. Its still early enough.

I wonder will whelan get back into the stoke side after this,suppose no proper player to take his position.

[Stuttgart88]

Although I've been as critical of Whelan here as many, but definitely not all, I think it's telling how he has held down his club place for so long and also that if the players picked the Ireland team he'd be in it every time.

Personally, I don't think its a bad thing really. I think this will be a very fluent game that'll suit more mobile types.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Whelan and Hoolahan are out until December. To exacerbate things, Reid is out until 2015. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29583679

Elsewhere Meyler, Quinn and Gibson aren't playing first team football; Meyler isn't even getting in squads.

That leaves Hendrick & McCarthy playing regular first team football and they would probably be the best two options as it stands.

I suppose Hoolahan & Reid wouldn't have been likely to start anyways; if anything Quinn would get the nod instead.

In fairness to Whelan, he is one of the first names on the teamsheet for Stoke fans and he has always recovered quickly after getting dropped at club level but you can only call it how you see it and Whelan's performances for Ireland have been consistently abject.

Edit: Coleman & McCarthy rested for the Europa League game tonight. Gibson on the bench again. Anyone beginning to feel that Martinez doesn't really value him?

[Charlie Darwin]

Reid out basically scuppers Forest's promotion chances. A very unfortunate player.

With Whelan out, I think MON will go with Hendrick, Gibson, McCarthy.

[tetsujin1979]

Whelan and Hoolahan are out until December. To exacerbate things, Reid is out until 2015. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29583679

Elsewhere Meyler, Quinn and Gibson aren't playing first team football; Meyler isn't even getting in squads.

That leaves Hendrick & McCarthy playing regular first team football and they would probably be the best two options as it stands.

I suppose Hoolahan & Reid wouldn't have been likely to start anyways; if anything Quinn would get the nod instead.

In fairness to Whelan, he is one of the first names on the teamsheet for Stoke fans and he has always recovered quickly after getting dropped at club level but you can only call it how you see it and Whelan's performances for Ireland have been consistently abject.

Edit: Coleman & McCarthy rested for the Europa League game tonight. Gibson on the bench again. Anyone beginning to feel that Martinez doesn't really value him?
Coleman and McCarthy are on the bench with Gibson, McGeady starts

[Stuttgart88]

He has fielded a pretty strong team so it looks lime he is taking this game very seriously. Hardly a surprise that Gibson isn't in the team and certainly not an indictment of Gibson - not yet anyway. If Martinez has all his midfielders match fit Gibson is always going to have his work cut out getting a start. I think he has a big battle on his hands to elevate his status at that club. But we all have to earn our keep and prove our worth to our bosses so it's up to him.

[Charlie Darwin]

Everton have had next to no possession in the Lille half, but after bringing on Lukaku they stepped it up and the ball fell to McGeady in the box, but he didn't have time to pick his spot and the keeper made a great save.

[DannyInvincible]

Is Wes definitely out then? Whether or not he would have been set to start, that's a blow, even if it's simply losing him as an option.

[Charlie Darwin]

Wes isn't officially out but he's out.

[geysir]

Brown looked average workmanlike tonight for Celtic, bland vanilla.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Keane might be right about the game in Glasgow being brutal. If it is, I still think our lads can out-brutal them.

[Kingdom]

Why! What happened to Colbert Report?

This: what happened to Colbert Report?

[DannyInvincible]

I think Keane might be right about the game in Glasgow being brutal. If it is, I still think our lads can out-brutal them.

Strachan reckons conventional tactics will go out the window. Roy thinks it'll be brutal. I'm not sure what to expect. Rugby? Boxing? Dressage?!...

[Kingdom]

It's in midfield where it'll be won or lost. If Darren Fletcher is fully fit again, I just cannot see him being left out, most likely at the expense of James Morrison, a player I really like, and I think he' the ability to hurt us. Scott Brown is decent, but truth be told, I see him potentially a weak link for them, and I wouldn't have him in our team ahead of Whelan, Gibson or McCarthy. It's likely - all things considered - that Naismith will occupy the area just off the striker, and how we cope with that intricacy will decide the tie (probably). He was never a world beater, but he has become crucial to both Everton and Scotland, and it's testament to both the player himself and Martinez that he's developed into the cog that he's become.

There is an aspect of our play that I struggle to come to terms with, always under Trap, but continued with under O'Neill - that we cede possession to so many teams so easily, and we seemingly set up our team for when the opposition has the ball, rather than for when have possession. Obviously it is early days in the tenure, and they've had one impossibly tough assignment to the world champions. I'm a big fan of Whelan in how we set up presently, but in a system whereby we maximise the players at our disposal in an offensive manner, then I think Whelan becomes slightly surplus to requirements.

There are few better holding midfielders in Britain than McCarthy, but he excels in a system of 3 whereby there are two sitters, with one of the two allowed progress if the situation demands it. I'd expect Scotland will play two natural midfielders in Brown and Fletcher, in which case we'll almost certainly be handing the initiative to them if we pick both Whelan and McCarthy to sit. So I think that is one riddle O'Neill has to work out.


That's what I wrote on this thread (if it's relevant!) I try to argue the point I'm trying to make.

I've seen reference to Brown's champion's league experience. Yeah it's a factor. He has experience in Europe's premier competition far greater than any of our players. You could argue that he's experience of having his arse handed to him 3/4 matches a season on the biggest stage of all consistently, aside from the big 2 results Celtic get when they play at home against beatable sides (that's slightly in jest for the Celtic fan-bhoys amongst you).
What am I trying to say? I feel McCarthy, based on the right system for us, can replicate his incredibly outstanding club form, and he for me is comfortably the best midfielder of the combined teams. I think someone else said it, and if so I'd agree, that James McArthur (James' buddy) is a super and extremely underrated player and I'd actually have him next on the list. I've a slight hard-on for Gibson, despite his sullen ways. He has great awareness, super range of passing and is tough in his own right.
Brown is a throw back, and excels in the proper old-style midfield role. Is Scott Brown garbage? No! Listen Scott Brown is a decent player. I don't deny that. But I don't think he'll be a game changer, and I don't think he'll dominate midfield. Glenn Whelan does an important job for us, which probably does limit us, but that's a choice the management have made consistently! So I stand by what I say, I wouldn't have Scott Brown in the middle for us, and I wouldn't have him in the team ahead of Whelan, Mac or Gibbo.

And I stand by the weak link comment. If we play 3 to their 2, and God forbid we get on top or attempt to keep possession, then I feel Brown could get narky, petulant, call it what you want. This game will call for cool heads - I'm not necessarily sure that equates to Scott Brown.

I'll admit, I haven't seen a lot of Celtic in the 2010's, but I just can't believe Brown has developed too much more than he was in the noughties. I won't be happy to be proven wrong, as it'll probably result in hurting us, but I'll put my hand up and say "kudos Junior"


Don't think anyone has factored in the injuries/'unavailability' factor? Which could still be a big one.
Absolutely, and it's a problem already. 3 weeks to go, it's only going to get worse.


I don't think anybody is writing him off, but I think he gets more credit than he's due. He's a leader alright and a hard worker with a decent touch, but talent-wise I wouldn't have him ahead of McArthur for them.

You said it!

There's always one ..... Kingdom -- (on this thread).

Rat's out.


Sorry geysir, did you even post? can't say I noticed it.
Kingdom and a few other posts too (oh and Geysir now that he's 'fessed up). Not sure if I said people are writing him off exactly (but I haven't gone back and checked my posts) but its more the fact they stated he wouldn't get in our first 11 (and nor would McArthur based on the 2 or 3 Scots that were named as the only players that would be taken in the Irish first 11). That to me just seems a little green blinkered. As I said, the central midfield will be fairly evenly matched.


We'll see. :)

[DeLorean]

For now, I'm glad Whelan is out, not that I'd wish injury on him. It could backfire if the injury list gets bigger but we have better players than him, so I'm glad they're going to have to be used. It seems a recurring view amongst 'footiers' that Whelan seems pretty basic, but he can't be that bad if all these managers keep playing him. To hell with that I think, he's very obviously an average to poor footballer, regardless of his other qualities, of which I'm sure there are many. We performed better without him in Stockholm (with Paul Green) and the Italian friendly was our best midfield performance since.

Very surprised Gibson didn't start last night, or at least come on. Besic picked up an early booking as well so was on thin ice for most of the game. With injury time practically up, Martinez brought on McCarthy to use up a couple of seconds.

I hope CD is right that MON goes with McCarthy, Gibson and Hendrick, but I can't see him not starting Quinn in this one. With Hoolahan and Reid out, it might be no harm to have Hendrick in reserve anyway, as an attack minded game changer, if that's what's required.

[DeLorean]

I think we needed hoolahan along with keane for this one, though gibson did alright with keane the last day.

Didn't Gibson came on for Keane?

[Junior]

Brown looked average workmanlike tonight for Celtic, bland vanilla.

Agreed. I was up at the game and it was a stinking performance by all the Celtic team. Brown needed to take the game by the scruff of the neck and step up the tempo and get his teammates to wake up and lift their performance levels. He didn't. Bad news for Celtic but a performance like that would be great when he turns out for Scotland next month.

And whilst we are on it - Mulgrew was woeful. Supposed to be playing in the middle of the park but more often than not was standing on the toes of his two centre backs -trying to spray passes around like he was Baresi and more often than not conceding possession. Again, would be happy enough if he put in a performance like that for the Navy Blue shirts come 14th November.

[DannyInvincible]

Didn't Gibson came on for Keane?

That's what I thought too. Although, to be fair, what would I know? I was only watching on television. Paul was there.

[Crosby87]

Not sure what happened to Colbert.

Chaps barring any of the usual injuries, suspensions, defections, joining ISIS, Ebola breakout, etc... what do you think will be Alba's starting lineup?

[ArdeeBhoy]

And whilst we are on it - Mulgrew was woeful. Supposed to be playing in the middle of the park but more often than not was standing on the toes of his two centre backs -trying to spray passes around like he was Baresi and more often than not conceding possession. Again, would be happy enough if he put in a performance like that for the Navy Blue shirts come 14th November.

Mulgrew's lost it what I've seen of him, this season. Div.3 in Eng. beckons, never mind Alba?

[tetsujin1979]

Not sure what happened to Colbert.

Chaps barring any of the usual injuries, suspensions, defections, joining ISIS, Ebola breakout, etc... what do you think will be Alba's starting lineup?
Gordon, Naismith and Brown are nailed on starters

[geysir]

Is that the best they can do? Junior has already written off Brown.