View Full Version : Confirm or Deny...Pats..
hearing over the wires that St Pats/St Francis have gotten all of the 9 points back after the meeting this morning
Confirm or Deny please,
Same old Dublin always cheating
Thats what they're saying on JW's too...
A joke...
just gotten official word from St Pats/St Francis HQ
the decision has been confirmed and they get the points back
not happy :mad:
Citymark
07/01/2002, 2:15 PM
Ireland.com confirms that St Pats have had the 9 points re-instated. They now top the table by 2 points.
It is believed that Shelbourne FC will appeal as they didn't like the independent arbitrator from Kilkenny FC! (typical!)
Looks like this is going to run and run!!
Just heard they got all 9 points back.
Citymark
07/01/2002, 2:24 PM
Shocking decision! The rule books states that 3 points deducted everytime an unregistered player plays for the club. 3 games = 9 points.
I know that St Pats, didn't realise that there was a mistake. To be honest the Eircom League should have notified St Pats after the 1st game of the season rather than after the 3rd.
St Pats should have got 3 points reduced and a large fine.
Ollie Byrne at $hel$ is going to go ballistic!
This is going to run and run!!
Certainly adds some spice to the title race! :D
Makes a farce of the title race! If Pats win now it will be the most unpopular win of all time! I blame the FAI that it has ever come to this in the first place.
Jim Smith
07/01/2002, 2:30 PM
If the so called professional set up at St Pats had managed their affairs properly none of this would have happened. The whole thing is one sorry mess.
dahamsta
07/01/2002, 2:38 PM
The whole thing is pretty farcical alright.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0107/breaking43.htm
adam
dahamsta
07/01/2002, 2:40 PM
http://www.inthenet.ie/eircom/news.asp?head=490
it would have been fair enough to give them back 6, but this is a bad mistake. shels are going to raise ****e over it and the league will be embarassed again. still hope that shels don't win it.
Citymark
07/01/2002, 3:06 PM
Full statement on
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/0107/breaking51.htm
Below are cooments from St Pats.
Reacting to suggestions that Shelbourne may appeal today’s decision, Mr. O’Flaherty said
"I honestly don’t believe Shelbourne FC want to do that. But there may be something personal going on, I think there may be one individual in that club who’ll be unhappy."
No prizes for guessing who at $hel$ will be unhappy! Ollie 'I attack Derry Fans' Byrne!!!
Originally posted by Citymark
No prizes for guessing who at $hel$ will be unhappy! Ollie 'I attack Derry Fans' Byrne!!!
don't u mean OLLIE "I attack derry, cork city and galway fans" BYRNE
Citymark
07/01/2002, 3:28 PM
Sure do!
Ollie Byrne, the self appointed guardian of the Eircom League, so long as $hel$ come out on top!
Very supportive of his club he is! Some of his hobbies include, assaulting fans, sulking when things go against him, interfering in games!
He's certainly unique isn't he!! :D :D :D
dahamsta
07/01/2002, 3:33 PM
http://www.ireland.com/sports/soccer/2002/0107/loi5.htm
pats get all nine points back. i thought they would have least have got 3 points deducted as the offence is a serious one. put's city's league aspirations in the shade.
however there is no point in whinging about it a la dermot keely. we have to get on with it now
This is complete boll*x!!!
I think the league has just set a precedent that the rules mean feck all now. I also think the Commishs position has been badly undermined as he previously came out & said the rule is clear enough!
Pats broke the rule & becuse the player played u-21 last year most people saw little wrong with letting them have 6 points back.
Pats claim they posted the registration by regular post & got cert of posting with at the time. Why if they knew they had to post the registration did they get a cert of posting instead of proper registered post.
IMO Pats did not send any registration to the FAI as the odds of post getting lost is i'd guess 1/10000+ chance. Pats then went down to local friendly post office & got cert of posting for convenient date.
There is going to be war over this. Think this will surpass all other bad publicity the league has got in the past.
:(
dahamsta
07/01/2002, 4:17 PM
Dalo wins todays Foot.ie "Special" Award, for posting hours behind everyone else in the wrong forum. Well done dalo, you can collect your award from Noelle in the Cork City club shop next week.
adam
Originally posted by Vetinari
Dalo wins todays Foot.ie "Special" Award, for posting hours behind everyone else in the wrong forum. Well done dalo, you can collect your award from Noelle in the Cork City club shop next week.
adam
Any truth in the rumour the prize is a glass hammer?
;)
dahamsta
07/01/2002, 4:24 PM
Gotta say, as someone more interested in the business and management side of soccer (and definitely not being biased either way), that this was an absolutely ludicrous decision. At the very least, Pats should have been docked three points, and the FAI should have accepted responsibility for their error(s). As it stands, it looks like they're trying to defray responsibility by making the situation even worse and taking the eye off themselves. If there's anything left to investigate, it's the incompetence of the FAI, not Pat's or Shels.
adam
dahamsta
07/01/2002, 4:26 PM
Any truth in the rumour the prize is a glass hammer?
Actually it's a wedgie, administered in person by Noelle. Miss Cork was busy. :D
adam
SO, FOR THE SECOND TIME JUSTICE IS DONE AND THE ORIGINAL DECISION HAS BEEN REINSTATED
REMEMBER THAT 3 DECISIONS WERE MADE
2 BY PEOPLE CONNECTED TO EIRCOM LEAGUE FOOTBALL
1 by 3 people unconnected with league football
no prizes for guessing which group decided to dock points.....FOOTBALL HAS WON AND ANY EEJIT WHO WOULD ACCEPT HIS CLUB AS CHAMPIONS IN A YEAR WHEN THE BEST TEAM WAS DOCKED 9 FULL POINTS FOR A MERE RED TAPE INCIDENT IS A GOBBER WHO HASNT A CLUE ABOUT FOOTBALL
SAINTS FOR THE LEAGUE - WINNERS ON THE PITCH - NOT THE COURTS
If Pats win the League now it will be a tainted and unpopular victory...
Jim Smith
07/01/2002, 4:40 PM
If st pats win the league we will have a new classic pub-quiz question:
"In which league and in what year were the champions of that league unable to use the postal services correctly?"
I accept Pats are the best team this season (due in no small part to a certain Ugandan) & would be favourites even if got probablt only 2 points back.
The only thing that gets to me is the Pats claiming they had a cert of posting. I just can't understand why they decided to get one of these as they are worthless. I could go down to the local post office & post a letter to say the FAI & get a cert of posting saying I was posting the letter to the moon. I doubt An Post value them & I doubt the staff ever look at the address to check if its the same as the letter.
What this decision has ensured is every rule that is broken can be appealed against on compassionate grounds. Pats didn't get the points back cos Marney was registered as an u-21 player last year, they appear to have been left off on the basis the letter got "lost" somewhere. Looks like the FAI seem to saying they lost the letter but then how come the fine? Didn't Dolan complain about the fine 1000 originally? Come to think of it the fine has been reduced by 27 quid.
If Pats got 6 points back i believe only $hel$ would have pursued.
Jim Smith
07/01/2002, 5:00 PM
would be that Pats keep the 9 points and finish in the Intertoto spot 10 points clear of the pack. That way nobody can say the result is tainted. This is probably impossible and I can't be bothered to check the table. I can hear the barstool brigade laughing at me already... :(
The reason they bring up the fact that they have a Postal Cert is a legal one. There is a longstanding legal rule called the Postal rule. As soon as you put the letter into the post box the contract is made, it's one of the first things they teach you in Law.
The Abritrator was a SC so all he has to do is think back to the days when he was in college first, and heypresto the postal rule, Pats have evidence of postage and tada....they win or so one would think, but no. If he made his decision on that basis you might agree with him. This man of the Law instead decided that they can break the rules "in the spirt of the game".
Pats played an un-registered player in 3 games. The FAI should have noticed after the 1st game. Pats should lose 3 points. Simple! City lost 3 in '94 I think for the same reason.
I can hear the chants when City beat Pats. "Your cheats but we're beating you, your cheats but we're beating you"
A couple of things.
1) The FAI don't record any post that comes into them that isn't by registered post. They may have received the players registration and lost it.
2) According to dalo's reasoning. Pats had no intention of sending in Marney's registration and decided to get a certificate of posting (on the day the didn't send it in!) saying it was posted to the FAI. Why did they do this? Just in case something like this happened. An inexperienced member of staff was sent to the post office and misunderstood the directions of the club officials
3) If Pats win the league, they would become unpopular. Fair enough, but how could a team live with itself knowing that they won due to an admin error
mouldymurphy
07/01/2002, 5:08 PM
i wouldnt blame ollie ! if i was gunter or any other manager id be giving out too this means if we slip up we could be out of europe because of the dirty cheating scum from dublin! :mad:
they should have the 9 points taken off em it happened to us so why not them?just cos the fat **** of a manager does brunch with the big ****s of the fai why one rule for the dubs and one rule for the rest of the league they get away with it !!
thats a tad insulting there Mouldy
Originally posted by Dodge
3) If Pats win the league, they would become unpopular. Fair enough, but how could a team live with itself knowing that they won due to an admin error
Just like how could a team live with itself if they knew they won the league because a player clearly cheated and handled the ball in the box but some how a ref missed it????????
Sorry bud you walked into that one
Mouldy if you knew anything about Dolan you'd know how deeply UNpopular he is with the FAI due to his constant criticism of their lack of interest in our league.
You'd also know the arbritrator is not involved in the FAI or the league's hierarchy.
If Longford had nine points deducted and reinstated not one Shels, Rovers or Cork fan would have complained
...about handball. I'd class that as a refereeing mistake and would go along with the theory that they balance out over the season. I know that we've been knocked out of enough cups by these but it is nothing as bad as having nine points deducted for an admin error.
No one in their right mind can honestly say Pats were cheating by playing Marney
a few points:
1. I think the idea of deducting points is fundamentally wrong and stupid. punishments should be thru fines except in exceptional circumstances.
2. BUT: rules are rules. pats broke the rules, therefore they must abide by the punishment stipulated in the rules.
3. the FAI can't blame pats if they took 3 games to see it.
1+2+3= deduct 3 points, not 9 and everyone should be happy.
ALSO: the fact that shels hijacked this to have a go at the rest of the league AGAIN is a disgrace. typical shels, and i'd rather pats win it than them.
1) Completely unreasonable for the FAI to have to check every team sheet in every game to see if an unregistered player playing. If anyone would like to suggest how this could be done let me know.... Theres no way also the FAI could make a record of all post comes through their doors.
2) The rule is there in the rule book apparently. It would appear to be one of the few clear rules in the book.
3) Pats just like every other club agrees to the rule book every season. If any club had a problem with they could challenge beefore the season starts or at any management meeting.
Essentially the FAI/Arbitrator/league have admitted Pats broke the rule (registered post), the accept some possibility they could have received & lost & giving them a nominally reduced fine.
Because registration is such an important thing clubs are required to use registered post for a reason!
no but still nobody can fairly say that the rules are there with the 3 points per game deduction per offence and they have now not been followed
if the rules are there then shouldnt they be followed
pats should be deducted at least 3 points irrespective of anything
they played an inelligable player...end of story
good point pete. if the rule says registered post than pats claims of having a postal cert is irrelevant. registered post is registered post. end of story.
Originally posted by Dodge
I'd class that as a refereeing mistake and would go along with the theory that they balance out over the season
Just as non-player registration balances itself out from season to season. City played an unregistered play and lost 3 points a few years back.
Pats palyed an unregistered player and should lose 3 points 9 is out of the question. I wouldnt honestly call them cheats but they broke the rules, there is a punishment laid out for that, it has been used before, why stop now.
You dont allow a player to get away with a foul even though he fouls in the spirt of the game.
can cork city now get back the points we lost a few seasons ago!!!!!!!!!!? Same old dublin always cheating.
exactly and you cant go changing the rules no matter how stupid they are mid-season
its like the year city won the league when 3 teams finished level on points..and bohs fans arued they should have won because they had the better goals diff, and another club had most wins etc etc and city had the best defence..
******..the rules were at the start of that season that if u are level on points then you playoff..
just like this year , you had the register players by registered post.this wasnt followed so the outcome has to be the stipulated points deduction
this reversal is a fooking joke and makes a farce of the league
SACK THE FAI
Originally posted by SÓCcfc
You dont allow a player to get away with a foul even though he fouls in the spirt of the game.
yea but in this case its the FAI or league committee or whatever is the prob..if a ref to use your analogy misses a foul by a player you blame the ref for missing it not the player, more often then not
this time pats fouled as it were and the FAI didnt punish them
I blame the FAI on this one
I agree. pats made a mistake. the FAI didn't see it, then they ****ed up the whole punishment as well.
if the FAI had their rules and procedures straight: the mistake would have been seen, pats would have been docked 3 points and that wold have been it.
FAI OUT
Bernie
08/01/2002, 8:03 AM
This is a crazy decision not to deduct any points whatsoever.
If nothing its a two fingers to Cork City who we all know had 3 points deducted for the same offence a few years back, and thats the only similar instance I can recall. Why not use that as the precedent.
One rule for all???
dahamsta
08/01/2002, 9:26 AM
/Exactly/ the same Bernie? If so, I reckon that deserves a new thread...
adam
Originally posted by Éanna
1+2+3= deduct 3 points, not 9 and everyone should be happy.
what the fcuk 1+2+3 = deduct 3 points !!!!!
1+2+3 = 6 first of all
and if your highlighting the number of games ie 3 then the equation should be as follows
3 games * 3 points per game the player was played = 9 points
where the hell are you getting 3 points from
i was worried about our education system before but now..this takes the biscuit. Eanna my 7 year old sister can add 1+2+3
Seanie
08/01/2002, 2:20 PM
I believe that the punishment that Pat's received was over the top at first - but now it has turned into a godsend for them. There title aspirations took a serious dent back then and all the sides who played were supposely not facing top-of-the-table material. Suddenly at this most vital point of the season they have been bureaucratically catapulated back to the top. Imagine what this boost in confidence will do for the team - and it's wrong. If Pat's win the League they will not have won it fairly on the pitch - rather the shameful bureaucracy of this League will have pitched a dagger in the hopes of Shels, Rovers, Derry and CITY, who have battled it out in the meanwhile as Pat's go almost unnoticed.
I would expect that this will be over turned by FIFA/UEFA if Shels appeal it but I donno will they.
The other team will use this a a huge motovation when ever they play and especially against Pats. Imagne what the Shels v. Pats game is going to be like in a few weeks!
FIFA and UEFA have no legal duristiction though do they over a High Court ruling or whatever?
AKAIK best option for appeal is a higher court
Originally posted by James
what the fcuk 1+2+3 = deduct 3 points !!!!!
if you look at the 3 points i made, what i meant was that as i saw it the result should be a 3 point deduction.
utter disgrace,
shels treaten to pull out of the league all together,
wat would happen if each club did the same
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