What regions embrace or dismissive of LoI football?

[legendz]

Cork seem to get decent support. Limerick hasn't embraced Premier Division football at all. Sligo seem to get good support from what I've seen. What regions are embracing LoI football? What regions are generally dismissive?

[Nesta99]

What regions are generally dismissive?

The island of Ireland!

[jinxy lilywhite]

I disagree re cork. Attendance's are good and should be applauded but from a city near 200,000 and god knows the surrounding environment their attendance is pretty petty IMO. Also they only have one team that seems to go from bang to bust in every generation.

In comparison with other sports the vast majority of folk are dismissive of the league.

Some warranted and others unwarranted.

[adamd164]

Traditionally football would be strongest in the former Garrison towns that had British forces bases and therefore played more football than GAA (e.g. Longford, Sligo) and most of the east coast (notably Louth, Dublin).

Whereas other areas (including a lot of the West/South West) have always been GAA strongholds where football - especially Irish football - is hated.

[adamd164]

I disagree re cork. Attendance's are good and should be applauded but from a city near 200,000 and god knows the surrounding environment their attendance is pretty petty IMO.

Yeah but I would also say it's also easier to galvanise a smaller town into a sense of local pride and involvement, which to be fair Dundalk and Sligo both tap into.

On the whole, attendances are poor for the whole league but some teams have the potential to be much bigger than they currently are with a bit of success.. e.g. Waterford, Derry, Limerick. Galway would get good crowds if competitive in the Premier.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Fair point lads and tbh honest I never considered a geographical divide in cork. Would or could Cork city provide a second side if there is possibly a part of the city unrepresented?
That is considering Cobh being a separate area

[Pablo Escobar]

Fair point lads and tbh honest I never considered a geographical divide in cork. Would or could Cork city provide a second side if there is possibly a part of the city unrepresented?
That is considering Cobh being a separate area
The fact that a major portion of our support come from within the general area of Turners Cross (including myself) would suggest that it would be possible. The metro Cork area has 410,000 people. When the club moved to a different area of the southside (Bishopstown) we lost a large portion of our support. This suggests that a second club, in a perfect world, could probably be supported. But any second club would surely act as a drain on the current Cork City.

[Jofspring]

Limerick doesn't embrace LOI soccer at all in my opinion. It's been the same regular heads for years. English football is king in Limerick, then junior soccer. Even at that no one really supports junior football, it's mainly made up of a few club men here and there and the players that play for the clubs. The only way we could really up the crowds is if we were consistently around the top of the table, winning trophies and playing nice football. Anything other than that and people will stick to their English and junior teams.

[White Horse]

The building of railways in Ireland was much more significant than the GAA/Provo slur of "garrison town". Dundalk is a case in point. Football was brought by railway workers, not soldiers.

[adamd164]

The building of railways in Ireland was much more significant than the GAA/Provo slur of "garrison town". Dundalk is a case in point. Football was brought by railway workers, not soldiers.
Just to be clear, I didn't intend it as a slur above.. and I am not a GAA fan at all. The opposite.

There is a clear link between the strength of the GAA in many counties and weakness of football in those regions, there may be a number of reasons that this is the case and I'd accept railways could be one!

[White Horse]

Just to be clear, I didn't intend it as a slur above.. and I am not a GAA fan at all. The opposite.

There is a clear link between the strength of the GAA in many counties and weakness of football in those regions, there may be a number of reasons that this is the case and I'd accept railways could be one!

I know you didn't and wasn't trying to make out that you did.

"Garrison town" is one of those cliches that people use while ignoring the complex social history of Ireland.

[citybone]

The fact that a major portion of our support come from within the general area of Turners Cross (including myself) would suggest that it would be possible. The metro Cork area has 410,000 people. When the club moved to a different area of the southside (Bishopstown) we lost a large portion of our support. This suggests that a second club, in a perfect world, could probably be supported. But any second club would surely act as a drain on the current Cork City.

If there was a second team in Cork they would have to be in the northside, around the Blackpool area would be best. cant see it happening and a second tea would hurt cork city's crowds but not a lot maybe 10/20%. There would be more people in cork to League of Ireland games in total if it did happen and a Cork Derby would be a certain sell out.

Cork city B team in the First Division would play in Bishopstown in front of 50-200 fans. Too far out of town and being the same club would not help supporter wise.

[The Donie Forde]

Cork can't support two teams any more; it's an ongoing struggle to support one.
In over 90 years of LOI football in the city, there has never been a northside team and there never will. Suggesting a team in the Blackpool area is just ridiculous. You might as well suggest a team in Farranree or Knocknaheeny or Mayfield...

Cork is, first and foremost, a GAA city and a GAA county - the most successful GAA county on the island, if you total up All-Ireland titles at all grades over the history of the GAA.

Sure, there is a LOI soccer culture in Cork, but it is a clearly minority pursuit. Why Cork clubs repeatedly fail is primarily down to the strength of the GAA. Of course, there have been more insane/ineffective/incompetent/egomaniacal chairmen at the helm in Cork than any city on the planet should have to suffer, but the essential problem is because it's a minority sport - much like in most of the country.

Also, the thing about the string of collapsed clubs over the decades is embarrassing and shameful. That's fully accepted. But, really, to hear that fact constantly being derided by (particularly) Dublin LOI fans is just laughable, considering (at my last count) the capital has had more than twice as many collapsed/lost LOI clubs than Cork.

Sadly, clubs going to the wall is far from a uniquely Leeside speciality. Even of the so-called long-established clubs, how many have not actually folded (many more than once) only to resurface with a new limited company running them and simply retaining the original club's name, leaving a stream of unpaid debts in their wake?

[Dodge]

Cork city B team in the First Division would play in Bishopstown in front of 50-200 fans. Too far out of town and being the same club would not help supporter wise.

The first team wasn't far off those figures when it moved to Bishopstown.

[pateen]

Lived in Galway for 7 years and never thought Galway United carried huge interest. Always tended to be the EPL.
Local soccer is very stong in Tipperary where I'm from.
Tipperary, Clonmel and Carraig all have decent followings for their local clubs

[outspoken]

For me this thread really is pointless (no offence) because as long as there is success and 'big events' the bandwagoners will surface in every county. Your talking about the strength of football in garrison towns ie longford but our home attendances show that to be complete tripe. The people of Longford are up there with galway as kings of the bandwagon and will follow any kind of success as our play off attendances proved last season.

[White Horse]

Lived in Galway for 7 years and never thought Galway United carried huge interest. Always tended to be the EPL.
Local soccer is very stong in Tipperary where I'm from.
Tipperary, Clonmel and Carraig all have decent followings for their local clubs


I always found that football is not that big in those areas where it's called "soccer".

[dundalkfc10]

I always found that football is not that big in those areas where it's called "soccer".

Plenty of people in Dundalk call it soccer!

[jinxy lilywhite]

Do they? serious question.

Association football is always Football or tippy tappy, Gaelic Football is either Bogball or Gaelic and hurling is hurling.

Cant remember if I ever heard the word "soccer" said

[dundalkfc10]

Do they? serious question.

Association football is always Football or tippy tappy, Gaelic Football is either Bogball or Gaelic and hurling is hurling.

Cant remember if I ever heard the word "soccer" said

Most kids who play both sports, would call Association football Soccer

[ped_ped]

Where I'm from football is rarely used for anything - it's Gaelic or soccer.

[eitoof]

There's a huge swathe of the south midlands that has no interest in or tradition of LOI.
From North Tipperary, through Offaly, Laois, Kildare, Carlow to Kilkenny.
Yes, there were LOI teams in Kilkenny city and Newbridge but the suppport levels never reached any significant level.
The FAI should be looking at this vast area with a view to development of the game.

[Paddyfield]

Limerick doesn't embrace LOI soccer at all in my opinion. It's been the same regular heads for years. English football is king in Limerick, then junior soccer. Even at that no one really supports junior football, it's mainly made up of a few club men here and there and the players that play for the clubs. The only way we could really up the crowds is if we were consistently around the top of the table, winning trophies and playing nice football. Anything other than that and people will stick to their English and junior teams.


I was in Rathbane in the late 80's and there were massive crowds despite the fact that the ground was a merely a field. The potential must be still there.

[The Donie Forde]

I always found that football is not that big in those areas where it's called "soccer".

Soccer AM, Soccer Saturday etc etc in the home of "football".
I think people with an aversion to 'soccer' is just plain snobbish, to be frank.

[BonnieShels]

Most kids who play both sports, would call Association football Soccer


Where I'm from football is rarely used for anything - it's Gaelic or soccer.


Soccer AM, Soccer Saturday etc etc in the home of "football".
I think people with an aversion to 'soccer' is just plain snobbish, to be frank.

On the money Donie.

In general discussions about Association Football I call it soccer simply because I would be a huge Gaelic Football fan too.

Never get why some people get a bee in their bonnet to be honest.

[Straightstory]

'Soccer' is a slang term (like 'rugger') - from the word 'association'. Football is the proper term. 'Soccer' when used in England, is a somewhat old fashioned and rather quaint term.
Gaelic football is the proper term for... Gaelic football. (Although not a lot of 'football' involved: always seems to me to be fifteen goalkeepers against fifteen goalkeepers: horrible, horrible game.).

[White Horse]

Soccer AM, Soccer Saturday etc etc in the home of "football".
I think people with an aversion to 'soccer' is just plain snobbish, to be frank.

I think it is the reverse in Ireland, the term soccer is used as the GAA heads want to claim that Gaelic football is 'real' football, which it isn't as it is more like basketball. Also, the word soccer makes it sound more foreign and therefore non-Irish.

[Eminence Grise]

I've found you can get the odd rise out of some people who tell you they play football by asking 'Gaelic or proper'? Then tell them you follow the garrison game - spit it out like a verbal hand grenade (like Randal in Clerks II - 'it's cool. I'm taking it back.':cool:)

[pineapple stu]

I guess the main issue with "soccer" is the similarity to the horrible Americanisation "saccer"

[White Horse]

I guess the main issue with "soccer" is the similarity to the horrible Americanisation "saccer"

It's worse in Dundalk, GAA heads say sawkorr.

[DannyInvincible]

The term "soccer" was invented by the English (and not the Americans), of course, as an abbreviation of "association football", as Donie highlights.

[DannyInvincible]

Stutts made a good point in the World Cup thread (I think) a few weeks back. First, we mocked Americans for not getting the game. Now, we patronise them for "finally" getting it. Given the infrastructural shambles Irish football (domestic and international) finds itself in from top to bottom, it's argually we ourselves who don't get it!

[pineapple stu]

The term "soccer" was invented by the English (and not the Americans), of course, as an abbreviation of "association football", as Donie highlights.
I know that.

Saccer (with an A) is the Americanisation. And all the connotations that come with it.

[pateen]

Do they? serious question.

Association football is always Football or tippy tappy, Gaelic Football is either Bogball or Gaelic and hurling is hurling.

Cant remember if I ever heard the word "soccer" said

Really, what country are you living in?

[jinxy lilywhite]

Really, what country are you living in?

Republic of Ireland the last time I checked my GPS.
No one I know in my immediate vicinity would call association football soccer. It's just football.

[White Horse]

Republic of Ireland the last time I checked my GPS.
No one I know in my immediate vicinity would call association football soccer. It's just football.

Apart from a couple of Gah heads who spit when Ireland win a game, I only hear it on Dublin radio and TV programmes.

[Sheridan]

The term "soccer" was invented by the English (and not the Americans), of course, as an abbreviation of "association football", as Donie highlights.
FFS, not this again. It was called "soccer" as an equivalent abbreviation to the colloquialism "rugger", to differentiate the two codes in casual discourse at a time when "football" could have meant either. No-one would dream of saying "rugger" in any semi-formal context.

[Charlie Darwin]

'Soccer' is a slang term (like 'rugger') - from the word 'association'. Football is the proper term. 'Soccer' when used in England, is a somewhat old fashioned and rather quaint term.
Gaelic football is the proper term for... Gaelic football. (Although not a lot of 'football' involved: always seems to me to be fifteen goalkeepers against fifteen goalkeepers: horrible, horrible game.).
Nonsense. Football is the proper term for all codes. Rugby, gaelic, Aussie rules, association are all distinguishing names. There is no one correct "football".

[BonnieShels]

Nonsense. Football is the proper term for all codes. Rugby, gaelic, Aussie rules, association are all distinguishing names. There is no one correct "football".

The nail on head.

Here we have Canadian Football to contend with too.

And let's not forget Eton Wall Game and Cambridge Rules...

[DannyInvincible]

I know that.

Saccer (with an A) is the Americanisation. And all the connotations that come with it.

Sorry, wasn't necessarily responding to you in particular. Just adding my two cents generally.


FFS, not this again. It was called "soccer" as an equivalent abbreviation to the colloquialism "rugger", to differentiate the two codes in casual discourse at a time when "football" could have meant either. No-one would dream of saying "rugger" in any semi-formal context.

Were you taking issue with something in particular I said or simply despairing at the general route the overall discussion has taken? Nevertheless, you make an insightful point; rugby would never have a serious league entitled something along the lines of 'Major League Rugger'.

[redarmyfaction]

The Garrison thing is just a slur, Take Tralee from Royal Muster Fusilliers site "Ballymullen Barracks has a long history, work on the construction of Ballymullen Barracks began on 11th August, 1810, to facilitate Regular and Militia Units in Tralee. The barracks was completed, and the first troops took up residence, in 1815. It is estimated that the total cost of construction, was £17,500, and on completion, could accommodate 18 officers and 300 NCO’s and privates. This figure was subsequently increased, as additional accommodation blocks were added", While according to sources in Sligo, the local barracks could only accommodate one third of that number and the Barracks was abandoned in 1909 as it was in a semi derelict state, going by the above I believe that the sport now known as Gaelic Football was brought to Ireland by British Soldiers the same way they brought it to Australia. Aussies rules was codified long before Gaelic and they obviously share the same ancestry.
Off the top of my head I would say that Cavan and Meath aside the other counties in this list had signifigant British Army numbers. Note that Kildares success ended shortly after the Brits left the Curragh.
KERRY (36) - 1903, 1904, 1909, 1913, 1914, 1924, 1926, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932, 1937, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1946, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1962, 1969, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1997, 2000, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2009.
DUBLIN (23) - 1891, 1892, 1894, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1901, 1902, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1942, 1958, 1963, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1983, 1995, 2011.
GALWAY (9) - 1925, 1934, 1938, 1956, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1998, 2001.
CORK (7) - 1890, 1911, 1945, 1973, 1989, 1990, 2010.
MEATH (7) - 1949, 1954, 1967, 1987, 1988, 1996, 1999.
DOWN (5) - 1960, 1961, 1968, 1991, 1994.
CAVAN (5) - 1933, 1935, 1947, 1948, 1952.
WEXFORD (5) - 1893, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918.
TIPPERARY (4) - 1889, 1895, 1900, 1920.
KILDARE (4) - 1905, 1919, 1927, 1928.
So now ye know the truth.

[Nesta99]

Dont forget that London contested a number of finals in the early years to help back up your thesis ;)

[redarmyfaction]

Funny enough London beat Sligo last year, I.didn't see the game but Oisin the barman in the pub across from the station in Sligo, who some of yew may know, gave a play by play replay for the benefit of the only gah fan in the shop and in his version all the London team were cockneys born and bred with only the slender grasp of current rules, so a theory becomes a.certainty.

[legendz]

You're excluding the game of caid from this thesis.