If the FAI sorted out a 'B' international...

[Plastic Paddy]

...which 22 players would end up in the squad?

Rules:

No-one will be allowed if they have more than 10 senior caps and was in the squad last time out
Everyone else, qualified to grandparent level and still eligible for Ireland, either directly or by switching from another country, can be included
Twenty two players must be picked, of which three must be keepers and at least four must be forwards

There are some fine minds hereabouts, people. I'm sure we can select the best available for this prestigious honour. And yes, eL players will be considered. Even by me. ;)

:D PP

[Plastic Paddy]

One for all you natives, I'll start with Wes Hoolahan. I'll also add Aiden McGeady up front. No need to explain that one. :)

:D PP

---

GK -

D -

M - Wes Hoolahan,

F - Aiden McGeady,

[Closed Account 2]

Not sure if any of these would break the caps rule.

Goal
-----------
Arbuckle Kenny
Joe Murphey
-----------

Def
----------
Steve Kelly
Babb ? cant think of too many
Any chance of letting Haerte into it evne tho he breaks the rules.

Mid
--------
Mahon
Flood
Kavanagh
Lawrence
S.Reid
A. Reid (is he under 10 caps ?)
Barrat
Sean Thornton

Att
---------
Elliott
Macken
McGeedy
Potter
Partridge
Alan Lee

Not in order + Ive probably missed some obvious ones out.

Edit : I cant spell either!

[Plastic Paddy]

Right, I've decided to leave out those with more than 10 caps. Too many loopholes. :)

:D PP

---

The tally stands at seventeen (and if better players come along than are already listed, then they'll be picked instead):

GK - Pat Kenny, Joe Murphy,

D - Stephen Kelly,

M - Wes Hoolahan, Alan Mahon, Willo Flood, Graham Kavanagh, Liam Lawrence, Steven Reid, Graham Barrett, Sean Thornton, Darren Potter,

A - Stephen Elliott, Jonathan Macken, Aiden McGeady, Richie Partridge, Alan Lee,

[Slash/ED]

I think you should drop the 10 caps thing, as this would be an ideal game for Ian Harte. Were Kavanagh and Lee not in the squad last time out?

And you'd have to have Jason Byrne and Owen Heary in there. The defence needs a few more players, like I said I'd put Harte in also add in Thompson from Forrest. We really seem short of defencive cover, Paddy McCarthy would have to be put in too then I suppose.

Was Stack in the last squad? I don't think so, so he could be one of the keepers.

[eirebhoy]

Gk: Stack, Murphy, (Kenny was in the last squad),

D: Kelly, Coughlan, Worrell, Heary, Clarke, John Thompson,

M: S Reid, Partridge, Delap (bit of an insult...), Lawrence, Mahon, Doyle, Rowlands, Hoolahan, Flood, McGeady.

A: Lee, Macken, Byrne, O'Flynn (need a small pacy player, Elliott will be in proper squad from now on :) ).

[Slash/ED]

I'd have Delap in the senior squad really. Stick S Byrne in instead, he was outstanding in Europe this season against people like Valeron.

[eoinh]

Ild think about Alan Moore (because of his performances in Europe) and Kevin Doyle.

Has Brian Kerr said anything about wanting to organise "B" internationals?

[4tothefloor]

A 'B' international serves no purpose whatsoever for the likes of Kavanagh, Kenny, Harte etc. The whole point of it is to test young players and players playing at a high level who haven't been considered before. Also, players coming back from long injuries.

GK: Colgan, Murphy, Stack

Def: Gary Doherty, Alan Maybury, John Thompson, Clive Clarke, Paddy McCarthy, Paul McShane, Stephen Kelly,

Mid: Alan Quinn, Graham Barrett, Richie Partridge, Darren Potter, Sean Thornton, Steven Reid, Jonathan Douglas, Willo Flood

Att: Stephen Elliott, Aiden McGeady, Alan Lee, Jon Macken

Other Possibilities: Owen Heary, James O'Connor, Wes Holohan, Stephen McPhail, Ronnie O'Brien, Alan Mahon, John O'Flynn, Glen Crowe, Jason Byrne, Mark Yeates, Noel Hunt, Leon Best??, Zak Knight??

Personally, I reckon it would be a 24 man squad if it ever happened, with James O'Connor and one from Yeates\Best\Hunt making it in addition to the above.

[1MickCollins]

Gk Graham Stack, Paddy Kenny

Def: Stephen Kelly, Clive Clarke, Paddy McCarthy, John FitzGearld, Graham Coughlan, Alan Maybury

M: Willo Flood, Graham Barrett, Rory Delap, Sean Thornton, Darren Potter, Steven Reid, Michael Doyle, Aiden McGeady, Mark Kennedy

F: Alan Lee, Stephen Elliott, Jonathan Macken

[Kevin77]

The criteria was a bit difficult to meet, so what I’ve done it name my strongest squad of 23, then a shadow squad, which is in effect “The A-Team”. This is considering everyone is fit.

First choice 23: Given, Kenny, Stack, Carr, Finnan, O’Shea, Harte, Cunningham, O’Brien, Dunne, Breen, Roy Keane, Holland, Kilbane, Kavanagh, Duff, A.Reid, Miller, Delap, Robbie Keane, Morrison, Elliott, Connolly


Remaining Available Players (not counting international retirees)


Goalkeepers

Nick Colgan (Barnsley)
Joe Murphy (Wallsall on loan from West Brom)
Wayne Henderson (Notts County)
Brian Murphy (Swansea)


Defenders

John Thompson (Notts Forest)
Alan O’Hare (Chesterfield)
O’Dea (Celtic)
Paul McShane (Man Utd)
Alan Maybury (Hearts)
Thomas Geary (Sheff Utd)
Stephen Kelly (Spurs)
Kevin Foley (Luton)
Patrick McCarthy (Man City)
Gary Doherty (Norwich)
Graham Coughlan (Plymouth)
David Worrell (Plymouth)
Stephen Capper (Scarborough)
Patrick Kohlmann (Borussia Dortmund)
Richie Byrne (Dunfermiline)


Midfielders

Clive Clarke (Stoke)
Jonathon Douglas (Blackburn)
Willo Flood (Man City)
Aiden McGeady (Celtic)
Micheal Doyle (Coventry)
Graham Barrett (Coventry)
James O’Connor (West Brom…on loan to someone)
Keith Andrews (Wolves)
Sean Thornton (Sunderland)
Colin Healy (Sunderland)
Willy Boland (Cardiff)
Darren Potter (Liverpool)
Stephen Reid (Blackburn)
Mark Kennedy (Wolves)
Alan Mahon (Blackburn)
Stephen McPhail (Barnsley)
Lee Carsley (Everton)
Alan Quinn (Sheff Utd)
Martin Rowlands (QPR)
Jason McAteer (Tranmere)
Glenn Whelan (Sheffield Wednesday)
Mark Yeates (Tottenham Hotspur)
Jay Tabb (Brentford)

Strikers

Paul Heffernan (Bristol City)
Jonathon Macken (Man City)
Richie Foran (Motherwell)
Alan Lee (Cardiff)
Glenn Crowe (Bohemians)
Jason Byrne (Shelbourne)
Barry Cogan (Millwall)


I’ve not include Leon Best or Liam Lawrence yet because we don’t know what their choice is yet/eligibility.


From these pack of reprobates I have picked these 23:

The A Team

Goalkeepers

Nick Colgan (Barnsley)
Joe Murphy (Wallsall)
Brian Murphy (Swansea)

Defenders

Maybury (Hearts)
Foley (Luton)
Geary (Sheff Utd)
Byrne (Dunfermeline)
Doherty (Norwich)
Thompson (Notts Forest)
Worrell (Plymouth)
Coughlan (Plymouth)

Midfielders

McGeady (Celtic)
S.Reid (Blackburn)
Kennedy (Wolves)
Flood (Man City)
Carsley (Everton)
Healy (Sunderland)
A.Quinn (Sheff Utd)
Doyle (Coventry)

Strikers

Macken (Man City)
Lee (Cardiff)
Foran (Motherwell)
Heffernan (Bristol City)

My starting XI:
Colgan, Maybury, Geary, Doherty, Worrell, S.Reid, Kennedy, Carsley, A.Quinn, Macken, Lee

[Bowsy]

Keepers
Stack
Murphy

Defenders
Stephen Kelly
Clarke
Knight
Heary
Coughlan
McCarthy
McShane

Midfielders
Flood
Nolan
Potter
S. Reid
Alan Dunne
Rowlands
M. Doyle
Hoolahan
Kearney

Forwards
O'Flynn
Doyle
Macken
McGeady
Byrne
Lee
Heffernan

Sorry PP, have gone slightly over the 22. Going for these players as think a B International would be the perfect opportunity to give young promising players some big game experience, look at the fringes, let the EL show what they can do and also test the "maybes". A chance to say to the likes of Nolan and Knight, if you want to play for Ireland then you should have no problem ruling yourself ineligible to play for anyone else by playing with the B Team (I'm presuming Unity cup games count as full internationals)

[Ash]

I vote for Andy Myler up front ... and if only we'd cryogenically frozen
Barry Murphy, Frank Darby and Rod De Khors they'e be a shoe in too ;)

[SÓC]

Left out Maybury, Elliot, Doherty and Lee as I consider them to be there or there abouts for senior squad

GK
Stack
Steve Williams (he's been in Ireland long enough to qualify)

Def
Stephen Kelly
Owen Heary
Ian Harte
Clarke
Thompson
McCarthy (classy player)

Mid
O'Connor
Hoolahan
Kennedy
Flood
Bolland
Whalley
McPhail
Partridge
Thornton
Potter
Rowlands

Fwd
O'Callaghan (link player)
Jay Tabb
Kevin Doyle
McGeady
Jason Byrne

amazed at how people can pick Richie Byrne. Brings new meaning to useless

[TerryPhelan]

Great thread, man! :)

First team for me would be:

Graham Stack

Stephen Kelly
Zat Knight (oh yeah!)
Paul Butler
Robbie Ryan

Richie Partridge
Kevin Nolan
Sean Thornton
Aiden McGeady

Lee Trundle
Kevin Gallen

Subs:
Paddy Kenny
Stevie Reid
Jon Macken
Alan Lee
Glen Crowe
Jason Byrne
Willo Flood
Wes Hoolihan

A team to strike fear into the hearts of whoever the **** pays money to turn up and watch them...

[Slash/ED]

amazed at how people can pick Richie Byrne. Brings new meaning to useless

It's amazing alright, he was pretty poor in the EL, mind you I've not seen what his forms been like since the move.

I have to say, not getting on me ol' soapbox or anything, I find it amazing people would, as in some cases here, pick reserve players without a single senior appearence at any level to their name over EL players who have done it in Europe against some of Europes best this season.

[tetsujin1979]

Bizzarly, was talking about something similar in the pub last night, my picks:

Stack
Roche
Murphy

Kelly
McCarthy
McShane
Tierney

Kearney
Whelan
Thornton
Mahon
Flood

Trundle
Jason Byrne
Best

[barglee]

I find it amazing people would, as in some cases here, pick reserve players without a single senior appearence at any level to their name over EL players who have done it in Europe against some of Europes best this season.

unfortunately the case is that the best players from ireland end up abroad and in most cases are playing reserve team football. i think any player would choose to play for a premiership club in the reserve team over playing in EL

Hopefully the EL will continue improving and maybe try reach the standard of some of the scandinavian leagues?

There really is no reason why this can't be done with the amount of football supporters in Ireland. hopefully an irish team will reach the champ league group stage over the next few years to give the league a massive boost.....

[Stuttgart88]

Not sure about the full squad but my XI would probably be:

Stack

Kelly McCarthy Coughlan Clarke

McGeady S. Reid Quinn Doyle

Elliott Macken or Lee

Some of the “rules” have been broken here but IMHO the basic principles should be to:

1. Get a proper look at fringe players, including people like Quinn who are in the senior squad.
2. Facilitate the transition of our better young players into the senior squad
3. A B team should be somewhere in standard between the senior XI and the U21 best XI.

Subs to include:

Heary, instead of Kelly maybe
Thompson
Potter
Flood
Mahon
Lawrence (if eligible)

It’d be an insult to pick players like Harte, Delap. Maybe pick Connollly. He’ll be so livid he’ll retire.

Too early for the likes of McShane. That’s what the underage sides are for.

[eirebhoy]

I think the best way to pick the B Squad is by doing what Kevin77 did and decide on your A squad. Then think who is next in line to come into the squad if a Goalkeeper/Left Back/Striker/etc is injured. So basically, if all 3 of the first squad keepers got injured, which 3 would come in. There should be 3 GK, 2 LB, 2 RB, 4 CB, 2 LM, 2 RM, 4 CM, 4 ST.

Have a look at the B team put out against N.Ireland in 1998:

Nick Colgan (Chelsea); Alan Maybury (Leeds Utd), David Worrell (Blackburn Rvs), Richard Dunne (Everton), Rory Delap (Derby); Mark Kinsella (Charlton Ath), Graham Kavanagh (Stoke City), Gareth Farrelly (Everton); Sean Devine (Barnet), Robbie Keane (Wolves), Damien Duff (Blackburn Rvs).

Subs: Murphy (Wimbledon), G. Cronin (Cork City), A. Lynch (UCD), S. Finnan (Notts County), W. Boland (Coventry City), N. Fenn (Spurs), Hardy (Wrexham).

^ They were all (probably with the exception of some subs) on the fringes of the first team squad. Breen and Carr pulled out through injury.
So basically, what order would you put the reserve players if you were Brian Kerr? I'm considering every player so if the likes of Ian Harte, Jon Maken or Richard Dunne aren't in the squad its because I'd consider them A squad players.

GK
1. Graham Stack
2. Joe Murphy
3. Brian Murphy

DL
1. Clive Clarke
2. Alan Maybury (we're well covered on the right so he'll be a LB for Ireland for the forseable future)
---3. Alan O'Hare
---4. Stephen Capper

DR
1. Stephen Kelly
2. Owen Heary
---3. Dave Worrell
---4. Alan Dunne

DC
1. Gary Doherty (with Dunne back in the squad I doubt we'll get to see him at centre back for some time)
2. Graham Coughlan
3. John Thompson
4. Paddy McCarthy

ML
1. Wes Hoolihan
2. Liam Kierney
---3. Alan Mahon

MR
1. Stephen Reid
2. Willo Flood
---3. Richie Partridge (I'd rate him higher than Reid but Reid is closer to squad) - I'd still call him up actually

MC/AMC
1. Aiden McGeady
2. Mick Doyle
3. Darren Potter
4. Glen Whelan

ST
1. Alan Lee
2. David Connolly
3. Lee Trundle (see how he does :))
4. Kevin Doyle

[Slash/ED]

unfortunately the case is that the best players from ireland end up abroad and in most cases are playing reserve team football. i think any player would choose to play for a premiership club in the reserve team over playing in EL


I disagree but that's besides the point. The fact is I find it amazing that people will pick someone without a senior appearence to their name who they've more than likely never seen and have certinaly never seen at a halfway decent level over players in the EL who have done it against some of Europes best this season. Look at Owen Heary, had Luque in his back pocket not once, but twice and is able to get forward aswell, outstanding against Split and MOTM against Deportivo yet people leave him out for people like McShane or O'Dea, even Kelly who's played, what, three/four senior matches in his Spurs career? I just find that amazing more than anything else really.

For the starting 11, I'd personally pick...

Byrne Macken

Doyle Hoolahan S Reid McGeady

Harte McCarthy Couglan Heary

Stack

Harte wants a chance to prove himself and if he's not in Kerrs plans, he should be used here. If not, play Clarke. I'd have Elliot straight in the senior squad too, probably Flood too. Three Shels palyers but I'm biased, but I think performances against sides full of internationals like Split, Depor and Lille count for more than no appearences whatsoever.

[eirebhoy]

Doyle Hoolahan S Reid McGeady
Doyle is much better in central midfield then on the left, he hasn't played on the left in a while actually. I'd swith Doyle with Hoolahan and probably even McGeady with Reid.

[4tothefloor]

No senior player with Harte's experience should be asked to play a 'B' international. Nor should Delap for that matter. It would be nothing more than an insult. A player who has played at a world cup finals and currently plays in La Liga (Harte), and an established premiership performer who has been an international for years (Delap), asking them to play in a nothing reserve international? Some people here need their head examined!

As for the EL players - Owen Heary will never be a full international, cos he's not good enough. Neither is Wes Holohan, he's missed the boat unfortunately. Jason Byrne has been tried, didn't impress. Neither did Glen Crowe. At this moment in time, the two Cork lads Kearney and J O'Flynn are the only two really worth looking at. They've done it at underage level, so they have that going for them. Out of all the Shels players, Stuart Byrne impressed me the most, but again he's not internationl class. As far as i'm concerned, the 'B' squad should be full of real potential full internationals (i.e. young players) and full internationals who have a low cap count and need to be tried out in a certain position. There is no point putting a player in if you don't believe that player can become a full international - and that's why the likes of Partridge\McShane etc will get in instead of Heary etc. No token caps from me anyway.......

[Slash/ED]

As for the EL players - Owen Heary will never be a full international, cos he's not good enough. Neither is Wes Holohan, he's missed the boat unfortunately. Jason Byrne has been tried, didn't impress.

You must be joking. Jason Byrne didn't impress? He played, what, 30 seconds? He was hardly going to get a bleedin' hat trick was he? And if marking Luque, a 15m rated Spanish international, out of a match, twice, and getting man of the match against Deportivo isn't good enough to play for Ireland B than we obviously have a stunning array of talent we've kept hidden over the years.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Slash/ED, you're full of contradictions. You just said that you dont think players with a handfull of first team appearances do not merit a call-up ahead of EL players, yet you are of the opinion that Willo Flood deserves to go straight into the senior squad. Whatever about Stephen Elliot being ready, Willo Flood is nowhere near ready. If we were to put Willo out against the likes of Croatia(one of Europe's biggest teams physically) it could do him more harm than good.

I agree that Owen Heary has been magnificent this season. However, he will never get an international call-up. He is competing in one of Ireland's strongest positions. Despite Stephen Kelly's relative inexperience, he is in a different class to Heary. I believe Kelly may be the next big thing. He got injured in pre-season but I believe that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Kelly will play in Germany 06. He will certainly be part of the squad.

[4tothefloor]

I agree that Owen Heary has been magnificent this season. However, he will never get an international call-up.

Exactly, and that is the way you have to look at it - objectively. Not heart over head. Yes he was superb in the european games, but he is not good enough for a full international call up, therefore there would be no point in playing him for Ireland 'B'.

As for Jason Byrne Slash/ED, it doesn't just come down to the game he played. He has spent time with the Irish squad. Management have had a close look at him, and their opinion is obviously that he is not good enough either. If he was, he'd be in the squads, wouldn't he? Why wasn't he in against the mighty Faroes if he is of international quality, seeing that Morrison was out? Because he's not good enough, that's why. Get over it!

[Slash/ED]

Slash/ED, you're full of contradictions. You just said that you dont think players with a handfull of first team appearances do not merit a call-up ahead of EL players, yet you are of the opinion that Willo Flood deserves to go straight into the senior squad. Whatever about Stephen Elliot being ready, Willo Flood is nowhere near ready. If we were to put Willo out against the likes of Croatia(one of Europe's biggest teams physically) it could do him more harm than good.

I agree that Owen Heary has been magnificent this season. However, he will never get an international call-up. He is competing in one of Ireland's strongest positions. Despite Stephen Kelly's relative inexperience, he is in a different class to Heary. I believe Kelly may be the next big thing. He got injured in pre-season but I believe that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Kelly will play in Germany 06. He will certainly be part of the squad.

Well you may have a point about Flood but at least he has made an impact at senior level, some of the people being suggested have probably never been seen by the people suggesting them.

And as for your second point, I really don't see what the fuss is about Kelly. He's highly rated but has been average or poor whenever I've seen him. Maybe I've caught him on his off days but he's never really impressed me and I've seen a fair bit of him.

[Slash/ED]

Exactly, and that is the way you have to look at it - objectively. Not heart over head. Yes he was superb in the european games, but he is not good enough for a full international call up, therefore there would be no point in playing him for Ireland 'B'.


Based on what? The fact that he marked a Spanish international out of a match twice? :confused:

[SÓC]

I understand where Slash/Ed is coming from. He's seem these players who are week in week out dismissed as crap out play players from "good leagues".

When City played now Swedish Champions Malmo they had a player called Alfonso Alaves. Ajax are trying to sign him for €5M. Over two legs George O'Callaghan totally over shaddowed him and €5M rated Alaves was totally marked out of two games by a part time player in Colin O'Brien.

Heary is a much better player than Kelly at the moment. Seen Kelly play a good few times for various Irish sides. Kelly will IMO get betterbut right now Heary is a better player. He wont play ever though, too many people ahead of him for the position.

People here talk about Willo Flood. What people dont realise is that he usually warms the bench for the U-21s. Liam Kearney keeps him there.

Some players we have are going to be unlucky. Laim Kearney for one. A constant on the left wing for the U-21s but dont think he'll ever win a senior cap, ahead of him most likely are; Duff, Reid, Kilbane, Kennedy, and many more. We are blessed with leftwingers for some reason.

Kevin Doyle/Jason Byrne/Glen Crowe will have chances because we just dont have many strikers.

[Closed Account 2]

Patrick Kohlmann (Borussia Dortmund)


Anyone know if he's any good ? Dortmund are a pretty decent side, so chances are he must be fairly decent to make their squad.

[dr_peepee]

I think B match's should be used to check only those players outside the current underage and senior set up who could potentially represent Ireland at some stage in the future. It shouldn't be used as an apeasement gesture to the eircom league or to to those players over looked for various reasons over the last number of years.

Some of the names bantered about previously are players at the peak of their playing careers, but still someway down the pecking order for selction in their positions, and rightly so. It would be a token gesture to cap them in a game such as this, knowing that when push came to shove they'd be overlooked when the time came.

My B team would be

1. Stack (Millwall)
2. Geary (Sheff Utd)
3. Clarke (Stoke)
4. Delaney (Hull)
5. Thompsaon (Forrest)
6. Lawrence (Sunderland)
7. Alan Quinn (Sheff Utd)
8. Thornton (Sundelrand.... For now)
9. Crowe (Bohs)
10. Macken (Man City)
11. Doyle (Cov)

Crowe gets the nod on two factors over the like of Byrne. His scoring in europe. And his superior goals to game ratio is sustained over a far longer period than his Eircom and lower English division league rivals. While Byrne has been top dog in the last two season, Crowe has maintained an impressive scoring rate despite niggling injury problems. In short, he's the best of a bad bunch.

[thecorner]

not a lot of people here have picked up on keviin doyle(cork city) or daryl murphy(watertford) who are probably the eircom leagues best young talents

definitly would be worthy of a look at

[dr_peepee]

They're still elligable at underage though.... The point here would be to provide a platform for those who aren't and are outside the current set up. But still in a position to offer something down the line....