Fao Anyone Online-help Required

[liam88]

At my college debating group tommorow will be preparing our final argument on the topic-abortion. I really need some information on abortion laws in Ireland at present so I can use our country as an example of somewhere were there are strict abortion laws but society still functions fine.
Not looking for a debate here tonight-I will be trawling google for the next hour but if anyone sees this and has a spare minute it would be great if you could put up a brief summary (just a few lines-when allowed, when not, general public opninion) on the chasnce I don't find anything.
Thanks very much!

[dahamsta]

OASIS (http://www.oasis.gov.ie/utilities/search.php?query=abortion&start=1) is always a good source of official information.

adam

[liam88]

OASIS (http://www.oasis.gov.ie/utilities/search.php?query=abortion&start=1) is always a good source of official information.

adam

Nice one! just what I'm looking for cheers very much!
And thanks to anyone else who was having a quick look for me!

[eoinh]

Liam im against abortion in must circumstances. However, I think the abortion situation in Ireland in the past (and maybe now im not too sure) was a symbol of a lot of what was wrong with our country.

We didnt attempt in any way to tackle the whys or why nots of the subject but just exported young girls to have abortions in England. A complete cop out by this country.

[liam88]

Liam im against abortion in must circumstances. However, I think the abortion situation in Ireland in the past (and maybe now im not too sure) was a symbol of a lot of what was wrong with our country.

We didnt attempt in any way to tackle the whys or why nots of the subject but just exported young girls to have abortions in England. A complete cop out by this country.

Cheers-interesting stuff, just loggesd on before I'm off to college; this is just the kind of stuff I'm looking for-cheers.

[SÓC]

Might be too late for you Liam but here's a qucikie for you...

Roe .v. Wade was an American case where their Supreme Court held that a woman's constitutional right to privacy ment that the Government could not interfere with her having an abortion.

This case scared the bejeyas out of the Pro-Life movement in Ireland. They sucessfully lobbied for a Referendum in 1983 to put in a guarantee in our Constitution to stop such a thing happening. The ammendment was passed.

They didnt forsee the consequences of their actions. The ammendment mentioned "due and equal regard to the life of the mother". In the early 90's we had the X-Case were a girl was rapped and wanted to go to English for an abortion. She said she would kill herself if she could not have the abortion. Our Supreme Court ruled that if they did not allow her to travel they would not have due and equal regard to the right to life of the mother and she was allowed go. The abortion could have been carried out in Ireland legally under this judgement.

Then c. 1993 there were laws passed that allowed people the right to travel to England for an abortion and the right to obtain information (something which was illegal before this).

A few years ago an ammendment to our Constitution was defeated, an ammendment which wouldn not have allowed self destruction as a reason for allowing abortion on the due and equal regard grounds.

The situtation now in Ireland is that in certain extreem circumstances where the life of the mother is under threat it is legal to carry out an abortion however very few Irish Doctors will actually agree to carry out the abortion or indeed are qualified to do so.

My god its like being back in First year

[eoinh]

As a matter of interest then, what country do you think has good abortion laws? Or, hypothetically, what would the corect system have in its legislation?

Conor, I only believe in abortion if the mothers life or health is in danger. I also would allow abortion if the girl was raped - but i have to feel that i feel uneasy saying that as its not the unborn childs fault that this has happened.

I think of myself as extremely liberal but when it comes to abortion I feel im very conservative. It doesnt help when the people most advocating anti abortion laws are religious nutters.

As for which country has the best laws - I dont know, as I havent studied the subject that much.

[Éanna]

our country as an example of somewhere were there are strict abortion laws but society still functions fine.
the last thing I'd call Ireland is somewhere where society functions fine- this country has massive social problems .


It doesnt help when the people most advocating anti abortion laws are religious nutters.
great point. its one of those things in which every case is different and its very hard to have the right law, because its not 100% black and white.

[SÓC]

It doesnt help when the people most advocating anti abortion laws are religious nutters.

Eh? Religious nutters?

As in people who stand up for what they believe in with conviction, in the same way you stand up for your liberal beliefs?Are Anti-War protesters nutters? Are people who cant stand American forgien policy nutters? People who are opposed to British occupation of Ireland nutters? etc etc

The same religious nutters are the ones without whom this country simple couldnt function, it would collaspe.

Image in the morning these nutters decided they were no longer prepared to play ball. Straight away Ireland has no Health System, no Education System, no support for the poor, homeless, disabled and elderly. Thats only the start.

[eoinh]

IMO the people who are in the vanguard of the anti-abortion movement tend to be very right wing. Im thinking of (and I cant remember his name :confused: ) the fella who who was in the news quite recently for going to speak at a fascist meeting in Italy. Likewise the most ardent supporters of rowing back the abortion laws in America would be quite far to the right. The same kind who dont believe in rights for gays. Thats why imo they dont make comfortable bedfellows (if you'll excuse the pun)
As I previously stated on abortion Im actually fairly conservative not liberal.

[exile]

personaly im against abortion unless its medicaly needed or in the case similar to the X case . im a liberal person and not religious person, but i think you are essential killing a child .
but in saying that i would never shove my views down other peoples throats like some of those pro lifers ,a few weeks ago on grafton st they hand those placards with graphic detail i dont think i need to describe what i saw.
what troubled me was childeren viewing these and their very militant chanting. mostly about how god will punish all these people which is wrong. abortion is a moral question not a religous question.
and the pro choice lobby should be more sensitive in they way they agressively try to make their point remember the abortion ship that anchored off dublin?
and also its not for us to judge the character of a woman who has an abortion.
also where do men come in if example your girlfriend said she wanted an abortion but you didnt how would you feel .


i wonder can admin add a poll pro choice or pro life

lad this is the first sensible debate ive seen men have about abortion lets keep it that way(no name calling or getting personal) it will make for interesting reading

[SÓC]

Good post exile.

I'd generally say that the X-case was a very good and well considered judgement.

I'm also a Catholic and considered myself to be very much pro-life but that doesnt mean I chose to allign myslef to the millitant people that you and Eoinh describe. I consider myslef a Republician but that doesnt mean I allign myself to Sinn Féin or the IRA.

The pro-choice groups would like to and have succed to an extent in making people believe that if you are Pro-Life you're a little mini-Justin Barrett or the likes.

The vast vast majority of Pro-Lifers in Ireland are the religious groups and people who follow those faiths. Those people who basically give our State a Health Service, an Education System and many other things but only get abuse in return, end up being tarred with the likes of Barret.

If there was to be a poll I'd suggest three options.

1. Pro-Life
2. Pro-Choice
3. X-Case Stance