Series 6

[White Horse]

Happy enough with the point last night but it was completely overshadowed by an injury to one of our players, Austin McCann, who suffered a severe leg break after a horrendous challenge from Jeff Henderson. The sound of the leg breaking will live long in the memory, it was sickening. A scum tackle from Henderson who should be completely ashamed. Referee Padraigh Sutton should be equally ashamed as he felt the wreckless challenge only warranted a yellow card. Not a good night.

I heard about this from a Sligo fan. My thoughts are with McCann.

The Sligo fan thought it should have been a straight red too.

Still a good point for Drogheda.

[Nesta99]

Well as Roddy is in good company up there with Pelligrini ..........

CSKA Moscow (http://www.theguardian.com/football/cskamoscow) have answered criticism of their pitch by taking the only logical way out – painting it green.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/23/cska-moscow-spray-pitch-manchester-city

(http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/23/cska-moscow-spray-pitch-manchester-city)No such problems accross the city at the Luzhniki, wonder why?

[seand]

Dundalk pitch always looks a lot worse on TV than at the game or on the pitch. Maybe it's the high angle the camera is at, I dunno. It plays very well, it's consistent and bounces are no less predictable than an average to good grass pitch. A problem for the likes of Collins is that it favours a team that wants to play football... and I should say for a number of years this worked against Dundalk!

[Ezeikial]

Deflecting attention away from a dire performance by creating a new controversy is not exactly a new tactic, but Roddy takes post-match defection to a new low by trying to label Pat Hoban as a coward for his part in the clearly accidental clash of heads with Ryan McBride

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish-soccer-league/2014/0408/607485-collins-in-row-over-tongue-swallowing-injury/

[brendy_éire]

Dundalk pitch....It plays very well, it's consistent and bounces are no less predictable than an average to good grass pitch.

There was a werid bounce off it in the second half. Ball was coming towards the away terrace section, bounced, then travelled back on itself. I think your point that it's the same on grass sometimes, but there are some issues with spot on the pitch.

[Nesta99]

Ball was coming towards the away terrace section, bounced, then travelled back on itself.

Is it not called backspin?

[brendy_éire]

Is it not called backspin?

Wasn't backspin.

[Nesta99]

Wasn't backspin.

Shall take your word for it.

[WoodquayBoy]

First-off, hope McBride is okay. Disgraceful from Collins - but that doesn't come as a surprise. Credit to Dundalk 14 (Massey?) - while players from both sides made their case for level of punishment for Hoban, he was the only one to make a bee-line for McBride to try and help. A few players stood looking at McBride, but Massey tried to actually do something. Not criticising anyone, there would (I imagine) be an element of shock involved, just wanted to single out Massey for praise

[ger121]

https://vine.co/v/M5a50AqMLxl

Superb.

I'd heard it was a beaut but when I saw it on Soccer Republic I was like "Sign him up!"

[geysir]

First-off, hope McBride is okay. Disgraceful from Collins - but that doesn't come as a surprise. Credit to Dundalk 14 (Massey?) - while players from both sides made their case for level of punishment for Hoban, he was the only one to make a bee-line for McBride to try and help. A few players stood looking at McBride, but Massey tried to actually do something. Not criticising anyone, there would (I imagine) be an element of shock involved, just wanted to single out Massey for praise
Somehow Massey sussed out that it might be serious and went for it. He deserves to be singled out.
It's also another example of why Dundalk are where they are, their instincts are spot on.

[Ezeikial]

Stephen Kenny posts a statement on Dundalk website in relation to the injury to Ryan McBride and the subsequent comments made in relation to Patrick Hoban:

http://www.dundalkfc.com/a-message-from-stephen-kenny-2/

[Ezeikial]

Ryan McBride speaks to Derry Journal


McBride absolves Hoban of blame after horrific collision at Oriel Park

RYAN McBride has absolved Dundalk’s Patrick Hoban of all blame for his role in the horrific incident which hospitalised the Derry City defender on Monday night
.



http://www.derryjournal.com/sport/football/derry-city-latest/mcbride-absolves-hoban-of-blame-after-horrific-collision-at-oriel-park-1-5991646

[oriel]

Ryan McBride speaks to Derry Journal



http://www.derryjournal.com/sport/football/derry-city-latest/mcbride-absolves-hoban-of-blame-after-horrific-collision-at-oriel-park-1-5991646

So are we just waiting for Roddy to retract his comments now?

[DRDoc]

Just want to add, Roddy's comments are totally disgusting, clear from seeing the incident that Hoban had no intention to do anyone with his own head, a new low even for Roddy

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Surprised Roddy didn't blame the pitch

[Charlie Darwin]

Surprised Roddy didn't blame the pitch
But then he couldn't blame the player. You can see the bind he was in.

[nigel-harps1954]

It's very simple, Roddy Collins should be given a slap on the wrist for his comments, but being Roddy Collins, he'll most certainly get away with it.

[WoodquayBoy]

Have 'we' (league/FAI) a charge of bringing game in to disrepute?

[WoodquayBoy]

Of course there is always the defamation route open to Hoban

[Mr A]

Or he could headbutt Collins and render him unconscious.

Not that I'd condone that sort of behaviour, however hilarious it might be.

[Louth4sam]

In case anybody hasn't seen it. There is no way you could claim that he intentionally meant to injure McBride after viewing this video. Hoban ended up receiving threats and abuse on twitter following Collin's antics.

http://balls.ie/football/pat-hoban-mean-ryan-mcbride-roddy-collins-claims

[Mr A]

How surprising that those dishing out the abuse can't write English good.

[SwanVsDalton]

Don't think he meant it, do think it was accident, but I also think it was reckless and needless. He wasn't getting there. Accidents happen, of course, but calling a late spade, a late spade. Obviously, Collins should've kept it zipped too but hey, that's our Roddy.

[A N Mouse]

It's very simple, Roddy Collins should be given a slap on the wrist for his comments, but being Roddy Collins, he'll most certainly get away with it.

If we ignore Roddy, and take for granted that the clash of heads was accidental. It's still fair to ask should Hoban, who was already on a yellow card, have remained on the pitch?

[Charlie Darwin]

Or he could headbutt Collins and render him unconscious.

Not that I'd condone that sort of behaviour, however hilarious it might be.
Careful what you write here. If Roddy did get charged he'd be printing this out and using it as evidence of Hoban's reputation as an assassin.

[oriel]

If we ignore Roddy, and take for granted that the clash of heads was accidental. It's still fair to ask should Hoban, who was already on a yellow card, have remained on the pitch?

Why wouldn't he have remained, you already indicated this was accidental?

[Ezeikial]

If we ignore Roddy, and take for granted that the clash of heads was accidental. It's still fair to ask should Hoban, who was already on a yellow card, have remained on the pitch?


Don't think he meant it, do think it was accident, but I also think it was reckless and needless. He wasn't getting there. Accidents happen, of course, but calling a late spade, a late spade.

Reasonable questions! Although it was obviously accidental, some referees would have given Hoban a second yellow.



Obviously, Collins should've kept it zipped too but hey, that's our Roddy.

Our Roddy? You actually want to be associated with that sort of bluff, bluster and character assassination?

[White Horse]

Don't think he meant it, do think it was accident, but I also think it was reckless and needless. He wasn't getting there. Accidents happen, of course, but calling a late spade, a late spade. Obviously, Collins should've kept it zipped too but hey, that's our Roddy.

If Roddy had complained that Hoban should have got a second yellow, there would be no fuss. It could have be deemed to be reckless. However, if we go down that road, how many challenges for headers would deemed to be reckless? I'd assume a large proportion.

It is his contention that Hoban deliberately charged into McBrides head that has people annoyed.

[DannyInvincible]

Why wouldn't he have remained, you already indicated this was accidental?

Whether or not it was accidental is irrelevant. A player's conduct can be deemed reckless, careless or excessive, and thereby punished, even without intent to foul or do harm.

[Charlie Darwin]

It was hardly reckless either. It was a contest for a ball that was there to be won.

[SwanVsDalton]

Our Roddy? You actually want to be associated with that sort of bluff, bluster and character assassination?

Ehhh no. He's the manager of my team so I'm stuck with him whether I like it or not (I don't). It was said in resignation rather than conciliation.


It was hardly reckless either. It was a contest for a ball that was there to be won.

I don't agree, I don't think he was getting there and what's more he has a full view of man and ball, whereas McBride can only really see the ball (since he's side on to Hoban). The Dundalk man has a fuller view, has time to make up his mind and charges in. He was late. He knocked the player out. That's reckless.

Challenges for the ball are well and good, but there's duty of care too. Plenty of people have done serious damage just by going for the ball. I take it case-by-case and, in this one, I think Hoban could've used better judgement.

[Charlie Darwin]

I take your point that McBride was unsighted but Hoban was fully entitled to believe he could win the ball, in which case he'd have been the one taking the impact of another player's head. It was an accident that could have been avoided, but you could only avoid it by not having players challenge for the ball.

[nigel-harps1954]

If we ignore Roddy, and take for granted that the clash of heads was accidental. It's still fair to ask should Hoban, who was already on a yellow card, have remained on the pitch?

A very fair question indeed. My gripe isn't so much with whether or not he should have been booked or sent off, but with the reaction of some Derry fans over an accidental clash of heads.

On your question however, I think it would have been very harsh to award a yellow card to Hoban for challenging for a 50/50 ball, whether he, or McBride, were more sighted than the other. If the ball is there to be won, Hoban had every right to challenge for it.
It's a very unfortunate clash of heads. If McBride had got up and hadn't been injured in the way he was, would there be as much uproar?

[Ezeikial]

If McBride had got up and hadn't been injured in the way he was, would there be as much uproar?

As White Horse and others have articulated already, it is Roddy's accusations which have created most of the uproar.

[DannyInvincible]

It was hardly reckless either. It was a contest for a ball that was there to be won.

I don't believe it was a deliberate headbutt, or a "doing" ("done-ing"?) as Roddy might call it - Hoban was clearly left in pain himself by the clash - but I do see how it could have been deemed reckless, or careless at the very least, so as to warrant a booking. Hoban was the more excessive of the two in attacking the ball with velocity behind him, whilst McBride was protecting a defensive position. Importantly, McBride actually won the ball, clearing it in the process, whilst Hoban got McBride's head and McBride's head only. Just because a clash might be a contest with the ball there to be won doesn't mean a foul cannot be the end result. If the ball was on the ground and one player carelessly took out his opposite in a 50-50 without making contact with the ball, he'd expect a booking. The over-the-top accusatory reactions are out of order, mind, but hasn't Roddy always been a mouth whose opinions are best ignored? It's unfortunate some seem keen to imitate him.


On your question however, I think it would have been very harsh to award a yellow card to Hoban for challenging for a 50/50 ball, whether he, or McBride, were more sighted than the other. If the ball is there to be won, Hoban had every right to challenge for it.

Sure, but that right doesn't negate the possibility of him fouling McBride in the process of challenging for it. There is a right to challenge, but with that right also comes a duty of care.


It's a very unfortunate clash of heads. If McBride had got up and hadn't been injured in the way he was, would there be as much uproar?

That's not what happened though. Would McBride have been injured the way he was had the clash not occurred in the manner it did? If McBride had been able to get up in the imagined scenario, it would have been because the challenge had been less careless and less excessive than the one that had actually occurred. McBride was injured due to the very nature of how Hoban attacked (and completely missed) the ball, so of course there wouldn't have been the same reaction had the imagined scenario arisen with McBride coming out unscathed as a result of a much less reckless clash.

[SwanVsDalton]

I take your point that McBride was unsighted but Hoban was fully entitled to believe he could win the ball, in which case he'd have been the one taking the impact of another player's head. It was an accident that could have been avoided, but you could only avoid it by not having players challenge for the ball.

Just because he's entitled to go for it, doesn't mean he should particularly after sprinting to get up with a player who is already in the air (and well ahead of him) and so going in at high speed.

Hoban could've challenged for the ball, and pressed McBride, without charging in late. It shouldn't be reduced to a argument over whether players should challenge or not. All I'm saying is Hoban could, and should, have been more responsible.

I don't hold it against him - players do it all the time - but he should be called on it and I'd like to think he'll think harder next time.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm sure he will be a bit more cautious in future but I think it was much more of a 50/50 than you think it was. It just looks worse because Hoban is attacking the ball and McBride is stretching.

[SwanVsDalton]

I'm sure he will be a bit more cautious in future but I think it was much more of a 50/50 than you think it was. It just looks worse because Hoban is attacking the ball and McBride is stretching.

Went back for another watch to make sure, but I don't think McBride is stretching at all. My take is he's ran towards the ball, gotten underneath it and almost jumped from a standing start. Whereas Hoban is running in towards the ball. This gives him a chance - maybe he thinks with a running start he'll be able to outleap McBride - but really it was very unlikely he was going to beat him to the ball. Either way McBride's almost underneath when he jumps, and he simply puts his head out to make contact with the ball - don't see that as stretching, as if he has to strain to make it.

We'll have to agree to disagree, it's not a million miles off 50-50 to be fair but McBride's a definite favourite and with Hoban getting a run at the leap, and able to see the opposition player, he should've taken care to minimise the chances of a nasty aerial collision. He didn't and that's what happened imo.

[El-Pietro]

I think the ball took an awkward bounce. It looks to me like Hoban is about to win the header easily at first.

[Charlie Darwin]

Went back for another watch to make sure, but I don't think McBride is stretching at all. My take is he's ran towards the ball, gotten underneath it and almost jumped from a standing start. Whereas Hoban is running in towards the ball. This gives him a chance - maybe he thinks with a running start he'll be able to outleap McBride - but really it was very unlikely he was going to beat him to the ball. Either way McBride's almost underneath when he jumps, and he simply puts his head out to make contact with the ball - don't see that as stretching, as if he has to strain to make it.

We'll have to agree to disagree, it's not a million miles off 50-50 to be fair but McBride's a definite favourite and with Hoban getting a run at the leap, and able to see the opposition player, he should've taken care to minimise the chances of a nasty aerial collision. He didn't and that's what happened imo.
Stretching is probably the wrong word, but he's putting in a defensive header with no run into the ball, whereas Hoban is attacking it.

[sullanefc]

Hoban didn't set out to "do" him, but it was reckless and deserved a second yellow IMO. Just my two cents.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Hoban didn't set out to "do" him, but it was reckless and deserved a second yellow IMO. Just my two cents.

Same here. If he was that late with a slide tackle he would have been booked. Don't see why it would be any different because he was going for a header.

[White Horse]

So, do we all agree that Roddy Collins was wrong to accuse Hoban of deliberately trying to cause injury to Ryan McBride?

Should Collins withdraw the accusation and apologise?

[oriel]

Same here. If he was that late with a slide tackle he would have been booked. Don't see why it would be any different because he was going for a header.

I cant believe we are still talking about this, it was very unfortunate what happened McBride, but anyone can see from the footage that it was two players attempting to win the ball, what happened was purely accidental.

Put it another way, if Hoban had been floored in the same challenge, would McBride have deserved a card ? No, as it would still be deemed accidental.

And yes Collins should retract his comments, but he probably wont. He made those to deflect from a very poor display where they were comprehensively beaten.

[Neish]

So, do we all agree that Roddy Collins was wrong to accuse Hoban of deliberately trying to cause injury to Ryan McBride?

Should Collins withdraw the accusation and apologise?

Yes, he should make a full public apology or be issued with a hefty fine and possible sideline ban. Don't think Derry should face any punishment as it seem its only Collins who believed it was intentional

[Mr A]

No fan of Roddy, but that would be a very dangerous precedent!

[Neish]

No fan of Roddy, but that would be a very dangerous precedent!

Why he has made a idiotic public comment accusing a player of intentionally going out to hurt another player, when the vast majority of people who have seen the incident say it was clearly un-intentional. Its a slanderous statement

[Ezeikial]

No fan of Roddy, but that would be a very dangerous precedent!

Why dangerous?

I presume that Neish meant he should be charged under FAI regulations and if found guilty issued with a fine.

In any cases Managers being charged as a consequence of their comments is not at all unusual. In this case his comments go beyond the normal "disparaging" rule term.

In any event it would be a positive move, as it could deter people who have little regard for normal laws of defamation.

[A N Mouse]

So, do we all agree that Roddy Collins was wrong to accuse Hoban of deliberately trying to cause injury to Ryan McBride?

Should Collins withdraw the accusation and apologise?

Roddy definitely could have used a less accusatory tone, but (and I can't believe I'm about to say this) the more I think about it the more I come round to his line of reasoning.

Hoban has charged into a player who's already in the air, and not won the ball. Even if he had won it it's probably a foul.

It's not a fifty fifty, I give you McBride is slight favourite and we'll call it reckless.

Depending on your view of it if we get much beyond 60/40 then (having done a few 180s after being barged with both feet less than a foot off the ground) we're getting into cowardly territory. Obviously Roddy strongly felt McBride was favourite.

Roddy's a muppet, we're all agreed. Now, can we get some kind of acknowledgement that perhaps Hoban was fortunate to stay on the pitch?