Girls in Green

[harry crumb]

The truth hurts.

I suggest that a new section for "womens football" is set up on the forum, to avoid these kinds of arguments.

[Charlie Darwin]

The truth hurts who? What are you talking about? If you want to suggest ways to avoid "arguments" like this, one very efficient way would be not to start them.

I know you're a fearless speaker of forbidden truths, and that would go against your inner courage and desire to speak up for the silent majority, but might be worth at least trying.

[harry crumb]

You like straw-man arguments?

[Charlie Darwin]

Yes, I do. I'm not sure you quite understand what those words mean though.

[harry crumb]

Thanks.

[samhaydenjr]

How did we get on? According to the FAI we haven't had a game since May or something?

Alas, took a beating, 5-0. Interesting you should mention that the Irish team haven't played since May - actually they have played three qualifiers for Euro 2017. But the US women's team have played SIXTEEN times and generally in front of large crowds . They played over twenty-five times last year - I think they must have their best players on full-time central contracts and the difference that makes shows based on that result.

[SkStu]

Harry, what are your thoughts on Glenda Whelan?

[Crosby87]

That was ugly. Carli Lloyd is the cats meow.

[Stuttgart88]

FAI showing its class again.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/sharing-tracksuits-and-getting-changed-in-toilets-irish-womens-team-hit-out-at-fai-in-revealing-press-conference-35592523.html

[IsMiseSean]

The FAI's reply
FAI Statement (http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/statement-from-the-football-association-of-ireland)

The girls shouldn't have to negotiate most of their demands. They should be a given.

[jbyrne]

FAI cant afford to give the ladies team tracksuits of their own but can pay for a brass band that no one wants!

[Fixer82]

FAI cant afford to give the ladies team tracksuits of their own but can pay for a brass band that no one wants!

Bang on the money!

[tetsujin1979]

shouldn't the gear be supplied by the shirt manufacturer, why isn't it part of the sponsorship agreement?

[backstothewall]

Given the difference in crowds the match fees for ROIWNT can't reasonably match ROIMNT, but all other conditions should be exactly the same.

Shocked, but not surprised.

[OwlsFan]

FAI cant afford to give the ladies team tracksuits of their own but can pay for a brass band that no one wants!

A brass band is a slight exaggeration: a few pimply teenagers banging drums and one guy only I think on a trumpet but the point is nevertheless well made. However, the FAI has said in reply that it has tried to address these issues with the players but that they have been rebuffed. As in all disputes there are usually two sides to every story but it certainly doesn't reflect well on the FAI.

[jbyrne]

A brass band is a slight exaggeration

if you were sitting near a stadium speaker it sounded like two brass bands

[backstothewall]

A brass band is a slight exaggeration: a few pimply teenagers banging drums and one guy only I think on a trumpet but the point is nevertheless well made. However, the FAI has said in reply that it has tried to address these issues with the players but that they have been rebuffed. As in all disputes there are usually two sides to every story but it certainly doesn't reflect well on the FAI.

The players have asked the PFAI to represent them as they have the experienced negotiators etc. The FAI have approached the players on several occasions who referred them to the PFAI but the FAI haven't contacted the PFAI

[NeverFeltBetter]

All seems like very reasonable requests. Hoping IMT management and players show some support. Some pressure should be put on sponsors too.

Still wondering how much they paid the "Is Not Bleak" guy.

Edit: Refusing to meet with PFAI as a representative is same kind of "Divide and Conquer" stuff they pull with LOI clubs. I'm sure they'd love to deal with one member of the team potentially untrained in negotiating, or all of them at once. But a (quasi) union rep? Nope, they aren't having any of that.

[backstothewall]

No word about this from anyone in the senior mens squad? The assistant manager perhaps?

[IsMiseSean]

JD & the FAI right up there with Michael O'Leary & Ryanair in refusing to meet with unions.

[Lionel Ritchie]

The statement released is a classic Football Association of John Delaney response. Attack the complainant rather than address the complaint. I immediately notice that of the "five occasions in recent months the FAI has attempted to bring the Players to the table" one is six months ago and the other four are within the last fortnight. Reads to me like someones bluff got called and the ladies warned they'd use the only levers the FAJD responds to -the threat of being embarrassed in front of their sponsors and the media.

http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/statement-from-the-football-association-of-ireland

[magicman]

I can't believe Sue Ronan was one of the people who signed the letter to the players. Considering she was their coach for 6 years, you would think she may have been on their side.

However, it really does seem she is as bad as the rest of them. For years she was being paid 2 salaries, 1 as women's coach, one as head of women's development. She stepped down last year as coach, but didn't have to take any pay cut for now only doing 1 job.

It is easy to see why the cost of salaries is so high there. Ronan is now an a wage way higher than she should be. Why would she ever leave the role or question the organisation when she is being looked after so well.

Same as all of them. Get looked after yourself, and who cares about the consequences for the future

[Dalymountrower]

Looks like it's a recognition issue rather than the money.
Mc Guinness and Gillooley versus Delaney...Who would want to be at the mercy of those three.
The women are incidental.
Best of luck to them in getting the supports that all international teams should get, but it looks like they are being used by men with other agendas

[BonnieShels]

Was anyone listening to OTB last night?

Kilbane seemed to suggest that the men's tracksuits get recycled downwards as well after they use them. There seemed to be some sort of indignity issue with the ladies rather than the fact that they didn't keep the gear. It as at the start of last night's show, and well worth a listen.



https://soundcloud.com/offtheball/ireland-womens-football-fifth-class-citizens#t=3:03
This is from the Football Show part.

Noel King again on Morning Ireland this morning was well worth the listen. Seemed to be on the girls side but absolutely no time for Gilhooley and McGuinness and the language used. It should be noted he did a great job trying to refer to them as players and completely remove their gender from the discussion.

[OwlsFan]

if you were sitting near a stadium speaker it sounded like two brass bands

So I believe but they were directly opposite me to the left of the goal with the microphones in front of them. I heard them as they played and not through the stadium speaker. Just a few teenagers and only one I think had a trumpet - the rest drums. Obviously an experiment which didn't work although at our end it did on occasion start a chant but this is ot and I'll get myself told off by the powers that be here :)

[NeverFeltBetter]

RTE is saying the PFAI have been invited to a mediation meeting tonight: https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0405/865345-womens-soccer/

[Stuttgart88]

I'm all on for yoga and spirituality but WTF is meditation going to solve?

[seanfhear]

Have you tried meditating about what meditation can solve.....?

[Stuttgart88]

I did but couldn't agree with myself on whether it worked, so I sought mediation. Meditation mediation didn't work so I turned to medication.

[geysir]

Excellent stuff from the Irish women's team. That sort of condescending blame game reaction from the FAI would not go down well in any of the more sport gender equal Scandi countries.

Now the Icelandic women's team want the same/similar treatment as the men's team got for their euro finals' escapades, an all frills downtown event with open-air screenings of their 2017 Euro finals' matches.

[seanfhear]

Almost for the hell of it (politically incorrect and all that ) ...Does womens football generate a lot of money itself........ ?

Okay the women should be getting the same at least as any country with similar resources for women's football but there has to be some calculations to how much finance women's football can produce in lets say the next 10 years .

Forgive my foolishness in taking this tour on this issue..........

[geysir]

Almost for the hell of it (politically incorrect and all that ) ...Does womens football generate a lot of money itself........ ?

Okay the women should be getting the same at least as any country with similar resources for women's football but there has to be some calculations to how much finance women's football can produce in lets say the next 10 years .

Forgive my foolishness in taking this tour on this issue..........
It's not foolish to ask the question. Equality of access to the sport of football is not a finance issue, it's a gender equality issue.
Female children/youths should have equal opportunity to access the sport, equal opportunity to develop their football skills as the males have and their teams receive same funding as the male counterparts. That means clubs provide same quality of facilities and coaching to females as males. The reason why the Scandi countries are strong in women's football is this gender equality of opportunity in sport is mandatory since early 1970s. While the Norway and Sweden men's teams have won zilch, their women's teams have won everything at least once. Women occupy places on the various leading Scandi FA committees, they hold positions as high as vice presidents and general managers.
The professional game is another matter and of course the economies of scales there depend on non gender related factors and equality there is not on the agenda. But once you accept the gender equality of opportunity argument, then it's beyond debate that the Irish ladies be treated with the same respect as the males, re coaching, facilities, gear and financial remuneration re match fee..

In Norway the male handball team is in the top 4 in Europe but it's the women's team that's the more successful and the more popular.
A little known fact in the history of football is that in 1920 the English FA banned women's football teams from using their pitches (a ban that lasted until 1970), because its popularity threatened the male game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=LAs6PaFDtf0

[backstothewall]

I guess the question is should income received from ticket sales and TV rights for the IMNT team be used to subsidise the IWNT?

The answer is yes.

[geysir]

It's definitely not just a FAI thing, eg. Uefa should also provide finance in order that the qualified women's teams can prepare on an equal basis against each other at the euro finals. The money provided to each association is pathetic.
I think there's a woman somewhere on the Uefa executive committee, it's mandatory that there's one woman among a committee of 16.

[backstothewall]

I'd be interested in knowing what percentage of taxpayer funded support for sport ends up going to womens sport. Well under 50% i'd imagine

[samhaydenjr]

Almost for the hell of it (politically incorrect and all that ) ...Does womens football generate a lot of money itself........ ?

Okay the women should be getting the same at least as any country with similar resources for women's football but there has to be some calculations to how much finance women's football can produce in lets say the next 10 years .

Forgive my foolishness in taking this tour on this issue..........

OK, so a couple of points on that:

- Firstly, the combined home attendance for the team's Euro 2017 qualifying campaign was 7450. Now this may not sound like much compared to what the men's team generate, but if we assume that tickets were ten euros each, then gate receipts would have been 74500 euros, which would have been more than enough to cover the direct financial demands being made by the team, which would have been 2850 Euros per player for that campaign. And this was in spite of a major drop-off in attendance for the last two qualifiers - the first two had attendances of close to 3000, a significant improvement over the previous World Cup games, which included a visit from the powerhouse German team. If the team becomes more competitive and they are marketed properly, there's no reason why they can't get average attendances of 4-6000 in the immediate future. And of course even if the team generated no revenue, the financial demands pale in comparison to John Delaney's salary.

- Secondly, one of the problems that affects women's football is also a reason to get fully behind the team: while people do turn out in numbers for women's football, it does still tend to be on an "event junkie" manner - the last two Women's World Cups had average attendances of about 26000, but qualifiers often attract crowds in the hundreds. As a result there is significant prize money available to teams who qualify - $300,000 for group participants in 2015. So it is surely worth the while of the FAI to do what they can to help the team bridge the gap from their current position, a few points from playoff status, to genuine contenders for qualification

- And finally, and perhaps most importantly, it is vitally important for young girls in the game to have a stable future within football that they can aspire to. One of the saddest aspects about this dispute is that talented young players feel they have to drop out of the game to focus on their jobs and careers. And we have the potential to have a strong senior team in a few years, if we look at the U-17s, who have qualified for two of the last four European Championships and been one place away from qualification in the other two

[DannyInvincible]

A deal has been reached between the FAI and the players after negotiations continued through 'til 3AM last night: http://www.thejournal.ie/womens-team-fai-3326416-Apr2017/


In an early morning video statement (https://twitter.com/PFAIOfficial/status/849823557739835392), the PFAI said it was “pleased to announce, following lengthy negotiations through the night, a comprehensive agreement has been reached which addresses all of the issues raised by the Republic of Ireland women’s national team”.

The association also thanked trade union Siptu and members of the public for supporting “these inspirational women”.

Here's the latest FAI statement confirming successful resolution: http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/statement-from-the-football-association-of-ireland-0


Discussions between both sides came to a successful conclusion earlier this morning, where all ‘Issues to be addressed’, as outlined by the Players, were successfully resolved.

Following the positive outcome to the mediation process the players confirmed that they will return to training today, in preparation for their international fixture against Slovakia on Monday at Tallaght Stadium.

[ifk101]

Good. But this quick resolution just raises more questions about the support structure the FAI offers to all the international teams it fields, beyond the men's senior team.

[DeLorean]

McClean backs the ladies. - http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/james-mcclean-backs-girls-in-green-447098.html


I think personally this treatment is wrong…not outrageous demands…it’s standard and bare minimum of what should be included anyway at international level. Playing for your country is the pinnacle in football terms, you shouldn’t be made to feel like this…

[geysir]

- Secondly, one of the problems that affects women's football is also a reason to get fully behind the team: while people do turn out in numbers for women's football, it does still tend to be on an "event junkie" manner - the last two Women's World Cups had average attendances of about 26000, but qualifiers often attract crowds in the hundreds. As a result there is significant prize money available to teams who qualify - $300,000 for group participants in 2015. So it is surely worth the while of the FAI to do what they can to help the team bridge the gap from their current position, a few points from playoff status, to genuine contenders for qualification

That was a good post Sam, however this Eur300,000 from Uefa for qualified team at the Euro 2017 Finals, albeit a significant rise from previous, is still pathetically small, not an incentive.
Broken down, for 23 players, for say 30 days in total for preparation and group stage participation, it amounts to Eur435 each player.
That Eur435 for each player, is to cover all costs to do with the extra activity that an intl. team has to do in order to do participate at the Finals; playing friendlies, training, traveling, hotels, costs of non playing staff - the kit girl, doctor, physios, assistant coaches.
The Eur 300,000 does not even come close to covering the lost income that the squad incur during all that preparation.

l The FAI are responsible for Irish football at all levels and with special regard for all representative teams, male/female, senior/underage. One of those representative teams should not have to justify why it deserves basic financial support in order to compete.

[paul_oshea]

It's definitely not just a FAI thing, eg. Uefa should also provide finance in order that the qualified women's teams can prepare on an equal basis against each other at the euro finals. The money provided to each association is pathetic.
I think there's a woman somewhere on the Uefa executive committee, it's mandatory that there's one woman among a committee of 16.

That's all well and good, but if there isn't the same level of money generated from the mens game then there wouldn't be anything available for either men or women. If money was evenly spread as per capita or head(based on pariticpation) rather than which generates more than that might be a fairer reflection. Its all about economies of scale at the end of the day, and until its supported in the same way then I am not sure what the argument is here. The support should be matched by the financial input and vice-versa. Just because women play football or men do gymnastic, diving etc doesn't mean they should all be financed equally.

If the Internet was a football stadium, there'd be thousands down supporting the Irish womens team.

Hopefully now its sorted out they will be able play to a better level now too.

[CraftyToePoke]

Hopefully now its sorted out they will be able play to a better level now too.

Like you say, sorted now and they can hopefully refocus on that glass ceiling, I hear tis a b*stard of a thing to keep clean too.

[samhaydenjr]

That was a good post Sam, however this Eur300,000 from Uefa for qualified team at the Euro 2017 Finals, albeit a significant rise from previous, is still pathetically small, not an incentive.
Broken down, for 23 players, for say 30 days in total for preparation and group stage participation, it amounts to Eur435 each player.
That Eur435 for each player, is to cover all costs to do with the extra activity that an intl. team has to do in order to do participate at the Finals; playing friendlies, training, traveling, hotels, costs of non playing staff - the kit girl, doctor, physios, assistant coaches.
The Eur 300,000 does not even come close to covering the lost income that the squad incur during all that preparation.

l The FAI are responsible for Irish football at all levels and with special regard for all representative teams, male/female, senior/underage. One of those representative teams should not have to justify why it deserves basic financial support in order to compete.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that $300000 is a vast windfall that would make the players rich or that it was a fair amount. I was just noting that if the FAI were willing to invest even a modest amount extra to improve the women's national team, it could more than pay for itself with the prize money available for qualification. It would also raise the profile of the game and hopefully translate to bigger attendances in the future and greater revenue. Maybe the best comparison would be the success of Cricket Ireland in raising the profile of their sport since 2007 and there's surely no reason why the Women's National Team can't aspire to this level of success. But of course this is the FAI we're talking about...

[DeLorean]

They won the friendly 1-0 btw - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/irish-women-put-off-field-matters-behind-them-1.3044051

[paul_oshea]

1k people wasnt a bad turnout for an afternoon.

Still if half the people that came out on the internet in a "show of strenght, unity and support" went to tallaght they would have sold out no problem.

[geysir]

They won the friendly 1-0 btw - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/irish-women-put-off-field-matters-behind-them-1.3044051
It's really tiring to have to click on these links now to read what's what.:)
Probably that's the biggest ever report on a women's international game and it was just a friendly.

There's a big gap in senior women's international football, between the table topping teams and the rest
Only one team from outside the top 16 seeded teams managed to qualify (via the one play-off) for the newly extended 2017 Euros, that was Portugal who the GiG beat in Portugal.

[Stuttgart88]

1k people wasnt a bad turnout for an afternoon.

Still if half the people that came out on the internet in a "show of strenght, unity and support" went to tallaght they would have sold out no problem.That's true (obviously) but are you saying these people should have gone? Showing support for their stance by clicking an icon on a smartphone is a lot easier than traveling to Tallaght on a work afternoon. I don't really see the link between expressing support for a political stance and a need to back it up by some firm action. And, as you say, 1k is a decent crowd anyway.

[geysir]

Undoubtedly the afternoon kick-off time was a repelling blow, preventing a larger support from attending. The early time might have had something to do with convenience (travel / social) for the players.
The next women's intl game at Tallaght is v Iceland @ 7.30pm in early June. The euros bound Vikingettes will be odds-on favourites to complete the duo gender hammer blow at senior level.

[geysir]

News reports here say the Iceland ladies are in Dublin to play the Irish ladies in Tallaght this evening.
The last time they played each other was in the 2nd leg of the 2008 Euro qualifier play-off way back at the end of Oct 2008. It's fondly remembered here as the "klakka leikarinn" the ice game, as it was played on a dreadful rock hard pitch in freezing temperatures.

[Briuk]

News reports here say the Iceland ladies are in Dublin to play the Irish ladies in Tallaght this evening.
The last time they played each other was in the 2nd leg of the 2008 Euro qualifier play-off way back at the end of Oct 2008. It's fondly remembered here as the "klakka leikarinn" the ice game, as it was played on a dreadful rock hard pitch in freezing temperatures.

I have noticed Littlejohn, Russell, Fiona OSullivan and De Burca haven't been called lately, are they retired or have they left the squad?