United League

[GK for the Town]

I know its probably come up before but maybe it can arise again to see everybodys points. If there are any reasons or answers, then lets here them.

A United Ireland/Island League has to be the way forward, it would mean bigger leagues, more competition, more interest, more money through TV etc BBC & UTV cover the League up north with roundups, Add TV3, Setanta,and RTE along with that.
The Security will have to be at its best to stop all the trouble but as you see abroad in every other league there are high risk security matches, but that doesn't stop them.

Is that Setanta cup a done deal yet ? i read about it before but never heard of a final word on it.

[thecorner]

yeah sure lets give th city fans more travelling

few drove up yesterday but u couldnt expect that every week

[Slash/ED]

I've heard the Setanta Cup is a sort of trial run for an all Ireland league and apparently the two associations have been in talks recently about this. All rumour mind you, but I for one hope it's true.

[dcfcsteve]

Question for the day :

Is it a coincidence that the first All-island competition in 24yrs is secured shortly into Fran Rooney's tenure, and is it likely to be followed with much enthusiasm by the FAI if Rooney gets the chop ?

[A face]

Question for the day :

Is it a coincidence that the first All-island competition in 24yrs is secured shortly into Fran Rooney's tenure, and is it likely to be followed with much enthusiasm by the FAI if Rooney gets the chop ?

....





Now ... that is a question of substance !!


There is no way on this earth that they are a coincidence. If Fran Rooney gets the chop .... it be one of the biggest injustices that the FAI have ever done to the people of Ireland.


If this does happen then the FAI should step down or disband.
A new association if Rooney gets the chop is the only real viable answer then.


All this episode is doing is fuelling the hatred and contempt that Irish fans have for some people in the FAI ..... they should recognise this, .... if even for their own sake.

[GK for the Town]

First we have to see if it will go ahead before Mr. Rooney gets the the applause for it. Although your right before him i cant remember much thought by anybody else to move forward with it.

[GK for the Town]

yeah sure lets give th city fans more travelling

few drove up yesterday but u couldnt expect that every week


Yes your right there would be good deal more travelling but the oppostion will have to play on your turf aswell which is a long way away for them.
In comparison to other countries Ireland isnt as big, Take for example France or Spain or even England etc, they are much bigger countries but the away supporters still make the journey.

[$Leon$]

if the leagues are imalgamated there would be alot more money pumped into the game on both sides of the boarder.don't forget that the north has a population roughly 1/3 of the pop of the south. the extra revenue provided by sponsorship from larger companies that wouldn't have even considered sponsoring either of the leagues would be of great benifit the the game in ireland. a combined league would only strengthen football on the island and cause it to grow stronger and stronger. maybe some day we won't have to rely on the football league of foreign countries to employ our players. as dev said
"No longer should should our children be brought up like our cattle for export"

[Poor Student]

Well I guess the upcoming Linfield/Derry friendlies and the Setanta Cup will give us an indication of what it will be like regrding security and crowd interest. It's hard to know where FIFA would stand on such an issue. the Swiss and Austrians had an idea to form an Alpine League but for whatever reason that has been dumped. On account of all this peace and cooperation symbolism FIFA may give it a go ahead.

[Macy]

Most definitely in favour of an All Ireland League. Both leagues are dying on their feet and this is the only way forward (we can mess around all we want with format and seasons).

What it would need is:
Proper Licencing - not the fudge that happened in the eL
Linked to licencing, decent grounds with proper segregation.
Proper policing - I really don't trust the guards, given they're so thick at policing Bohs v Rovers.
Proper Ticketing, and maybe total all ticket games, if Cross Border.
It would be essential to have quality media sections and sky quality camera positions.
No loss of UEFA places for the clubs to go for it. One Champions League spot maybe, but at least 2 for the UEFA from the league - Cups see below.
A Cast Iron rule book - no exemptions.
A independent controlling body that won't give into anyone.

Format (IMO):
An 18 or 20 team league - initially equal numbers from both.
Ideally based on football critea, once they properly licenced (including ground).
Personally, I'd keep both the IFA and FAI Cups as are - Guaranteed European spots for both associations teams.
All kick off's Saturday or Sunday afternoon - Friday/Monday for TV games (if there's a deal done).
Straight Home and Away
Bottom 3 Down.
Lower divisions - it would make more sense to me for there to be regional leagues rather than keeping the Northern and Republic Leagues. That would mean the likes of Sligo can reduce their travelling costs. Only problem would be that obviously they'd be in a First Division North dominated by Northern Teams.
Champions from First Division North and South straight up. Next 4 from each in the playoffs - eg 2nd from "North" plays 5th from "South" etc.
No Postponments for European Games - They can be moved in the same weekend, but that's it.

Problems:
Security - I really don't think the guards are capable. They'd have to do serious training with the English police to learn how to do it.
Grounds/Licencing - Don't believe it won't be fudged and most grounds here don't have sufficient segregation.
The most obvious one is we play different seasons. I think Summer is the way forward, as it opens up the Sky market as well as the European Benefits.

[thejollyrodger]

Reading some of the stories in the press about Derry and Linfield and the Sentanta Cup (it begins next year ! and of course shels are going to rip through the teams in it ;) ) It seems as though there is a lot of talk about a all Island league.

IMO I think that if all goes well in the Sentanta Cup and that meeting between Derry and Linfield goes off without a hitch there will be a meeting to discuss an all ireland league next year.

It would really beneift both sides of the island and you can expect increased attendences however it has to be kept during the summer to get the most out of it.

There should be clubs loosing out on Champions League or UEFA Cup spots if it does go ahead!!!

[patsh]

Would really love to see this happen.

Main Problem?
the FAI and the IFA. These two showers couldn't organise a w/-\nk in a blue movie theatre...:(

[ShelsTim]

Most definitely in favour of an All Ireland League. Both leagues are dying on their feet and this is the only way forward (we can mess around all we want with format and seasons).

What it would need is:
Proper Licencing - not the fudge that happened in the eL
Linked to licencing, decent grounds with proper segregation.
Proper policing - I really don't trust the guards, given they're so thick at policing Bohs v Rovers.
Proper Ticketing, and maybe total all ticket games, if Cross Border.
It would be essential to have quality media sections and sky quality camera positions.
No loss of UEFA places for the clubs to go for it. One Champions League spot maybe, but at least 2 for the UEFA from the league - Cups see below.
A Cast Iron rule book - no exemptions.
A independent controlling body that won't give into anyone.

Format (IMO):
An 18 or 20 team league - initially equal numbers from both.
Ideally based on football critea, once they properly licenced (including ground).
Personally, I'd keep both the IFA and FAI Cups as are - Guaranteed European spots for both associations teams.
All kick off's Saturday or Sunday afternoon - Friday/Monday for TV games (if there's a deal done).
Straight Home and Away
Bottom 3 Down.
Lower divisions - it would make more sense to me for there to be regional leagues rather than keeping the Northern and Republic Leagues. That would mean the likes of Sligo can reduce their travelling costs. Only problem would be that obviously they'd be in a First Division North dominated by Northern Teams.
Champions from First Division North and South straight up. Next 4 from each in the playoffs - eg 2nd from "North" plays 5th from "South" etc.
No Postponments for European Games - They can be moved in the same weekend, but that's it.

Problems:
Security - I really don't think the guards are capable. They'd have to do serious training with the English police to learn how to do it.
Grounds/Licencing - Don't believe it won't be fudged and most grounds here don't have sufficient segregation.
The most obvious one is we play different seasons. I think Summer is the way forward, as it opens up the Sky market as well as the European Benefits.


The guards don't handle the security, the clubs do and if they feel they need to guards there, they ask them, but they organise it. Thing is, the tiny amount of hooliganism in Ireland could've stamped out long ago if the clubs gave a toss. Everyone knows who they are but nothing's done. Like in England, it'll take a disaster to shock people into taking action, only the eL will probably be set back 10 years by such a tragedy.

Anyway, if they do unite the leagues, surely they should unite the cups too and, inevitably, unite the National Teams. If the FAI and IFA remain seperate, where would the appeals go to etc.

As for Saturday/Sunday kick-offs, I'd prefer Saturday/Sunday evening, it'll give fans a chance to get across the country, e.g. Cork-Belfast, you wouldn't want to go Friday for the Saturday game, only get back that night.

As for the lower leagues, there'ld be no draw for fans and it would kinda defeat the purpose of amalgamating the leagues. Amalgamate the entire league, not just the premiers. You could even have three divisions, with proper promotion/relegation. Then the regional leagues beneath that who would have the possibility of promotion in some way.

You couldn't help but lose european spots, the teams aren't good enough to be given more than one CL spot and more than one UEFA spot. But the more money etc. going into the league because of the union, then the better clubs will get and the better we'll do in europe and so on.

I think the currency would be a pain in the hole. Going up 4 times a season to Derry and changing currency is grand but back and forth every week would be a pain in the hole, especially considering the money you'ld lose on exchange rates.

[DonegalJohn]

this would be the greatest thing that could happen to soccer in Ireland. it would make teams like Cork, Bohs and shelbourne bigger also would be great for the big 2 in Belfast .........if Rovers could come back that I make it would be about at least 6 teams that could challange every year.
but I ask would the GAA like to see an all ireland soccer league that eventually may mean an all ireland international team.

would the pen pushing clerks with either the FAI or IFA like it ......what do you think

[Macy]

The guards don't handle the security, the clubs do and if they feel they need to guards there, they ask them, but they organise it. Thing is, the tiny amount of hooliganism in Ireland could've stamped out long ago if the clubs gave a toss. Everyone knows who they are but nothing's done. Like in England, it'll take a disaster to shock people into taking action, only the eL will probably be set back 10 years by such a tragedy.
Even if you accept that the clubs take total responsibility for security inside the ground (which I don't tbh), outside the grounds is most definitely the arena of the guards.

How they continually fail to police Doyles corner (for example) for Bohs v Rovers games shows their incompetence. If they can't police a 100 or so intent on trouble, how are they going to handle the numbers that will be out for Bohs v Linfield. They haven't a clue on crowd control, particularly with regard to football.

Clubs can only do something about hooligans if the guards are willing to charge people, which they patently are not.

[LFC in Exile]

I remember when this came up before that the issue of the national teams was crucial. Every national side in FIFA must have a domestic league. So if we have one domestic league that means we have one national side. Now I can't see certain parts of the football establishment going for that.

This is also not as simple as amalgamating the IL and eL. There must be one adminsitrative body - just like the other all-ireland sporting organsiations (IRFU and GAA). The FAI and IFA are not just reponsible for the senior leagues but also the junior, schoolboy etc leagues. These strucutres will also need to amalgamated - or brought under one organisation.

I don't really see much benefit in an all-Ireland league. I don't see why necessarily there will be more money. There will initially be an upsurge in interest - at least out of curiousity. But why would a Cork - Glentoran match at the cross necessarily draw a bigger gate than Cork - Drogheda? Just using these as examples. The amalgamation of the leagues would not address the fundamental reasons why the eL is poorly attended i.e. lack of proper facilities, bad administration, premiership saturation coverage.

I know nobody suggested that it would solve all problems, but I think there are less drastic actions that should be tried before joining the IFA and FAI. :ball:

[dublinred]

If the leagues re-unite the national teams would have to as well , which could be a good thing but unlikely to happen as what would happen all the excess staff if the FAI/IFA merged , would turkeys vote for XMAS?

[thejollyrodger]

I dont want 1 administration or one national team ! The sentanta cup will do nicely :)

[GK for the Town]

There will initially be an upsurge in interest - at least out of curiousity. :ball:

It'll be up to the League, teams etc and Media etc to keep this interest going then. :ball:

[LFC in Exile]

It'll be up to the League, teams etc and Media etc to keep this interest going then. :ball:

But my point was that we just go back to the same situation we are in now. We can't rely on a one-off gesture. Interest will be maintained by proper funding, proper administration, proper marketing - but why should it be the case that a merged entity will do this when the current entity doesn't. If we could sort out those three areas then the need for a merger to boost interest is removed.

I have no objection in principle to an all-ireland league - I just think its a lot of uncertainty and difficulty for what IMO will be a marginal (at best) result. Let's get out own house in order before trying to build an extension. :ball:

[joeSoap]

Let's get out own house in order before trying to build an extension. :ball:

Do we need planning permission for that?? :D :D

[Kingdom]

as dev said
"No longer should should our children be brought up like our cattle for export"


The man was/is a contradictory artist. If that was his opinion then perhaps he should have done something about it rather than throw around soundbites. The f@cker.

As for as an All Island league (thats not a mis-spelling!) , I'm not sure that it would work. With the exception of COrk and perhaps Waterford the teams that would comprise any Premier Division would be based in Dublin and Belfast. The eircom League has an impressive look to it , with Derry City and Longford also there , but if you were to map out the locations of the teams in a combined league it would look pretty lopsided in my opinion.

[$Leon$]

if you were to map out the locations of the teams in a combined league it would look pretty lopsided in my opinion.


whats to say that teams like derry and longford wouldn't make the top combined league? longford is a very rapidly growing town. alot of large companies are setting up there. combine this with their recent cup runs and whos to say there isn't a prem league title there in da next 5 or 6 years. the current el prem div comprises 10 teams. whos to say that a combined league couldn't comprise 20 teams? leaving plenty of room for these teams and in the future the realistic possibility that current 1st div el teams could push current irish league teams out of the top flight?

[Kingdom]

I personally couldn't see a 20 team league. Its just not realistic in my opinion. Perhaps a 16 team league with 30 games a season would be a better option. At least then you'd have room for a combined cup and if necessary a cup for the Northies and a cup for the Republicans. :p

And as for Longford winning the Prem ???? COme off it man you're having a giggle. There's more chance of an airport being built in knock or a mad Irish priest attacking an athlete at the Olympics .

Oops , I'll get me coat....

;)

[Kingdom]

whos to say that a combined league couldn't comprise 20 teams? leaving plenty of room for these teams and in the future the realistic possibility that current 1st div el teams could push current irish league teams out of the top flight?

Perhaps in a similar way in which Dublin city will be pushing themselves out of this years top flight non?

[Macy]

the current el prem div comprises 10 teams. whos to say that a combined league couldn't comprise 20 teams?
I'd be against it if it was to be an 8 or 10 team league. Has to be 18-20 teams to have a chance, playing home and away once (not 3 or 4 times).

Standings as of now, an 18 team All Ireland League would be

Shelbourne
Cork City
Bohemians
Drogheda United
Waterford United
Derry City
Longford Town
St Patricks Athletic
Shamrock Rovers
Portadown F.C.
Linfield F.C.
Glentoran F.C.
Ballymena United
Larne
Coleraine F.C.
Institute
Limavady United
Loughgall

Not that much of a Dublin/Belfast bias, certainly no more than would be expected given the populations...

[Kingdom]

Ok take away Cork, Waterford , Longford and there still is a very unbalanced look to it. Its predominantly on the Eastern coast man!!1

[Macy]

Ok take away Cork, Waterford , Longford and there still is a very unbalanced look to it. Its predominantly on the Eastern coast man!!1
Yeah, but isn't the islands population?

[Schumi]

Ok take away Cork, Waterford , Longford and there still is a very unbalanced look to it. Its predominantly on the Eastern coast man!!1
But no different to the current EL.

[crc]

Shelbourne
Cork City
Bohemians
Drogheda United
Waterford United
= Derry City =
Longford Town
St Patricks Athletic
Shamrock Rovers
Portadown F.C.
Linfield F.C.
Glentoran F.C.
Ballymena United
Larne
= Coleraine F.C. =
= Institute =
= Limavady United =
Loughgall

Not that much of a Dublin/Belfast bias, certainly no more than would be expected given the populations...

Anyone else notice that there are four Co.Derry teams in that list, not so lopsided??

Personally, I think 16 teams would be best; 30 games each would leave room for a decent cup competition and a regionalised league cup (ie 8 x regional groups, then knockout). First Div would also be national, but 2nd Div could be regionalised (three or four).

We need to create some sort of Irish Soccer (or Football, whatever) Federation, as an overarching body because I'll be difficult to get rid of IFA and FAI in the short term. Sort of like the IRFU has four branches, only we'd have two (IFA and FAI).

[GK for the Town]

Anyone else notice that there are four Co.Derry teams in that list, not so lopsided??

Personally, I think 16 teams would be best; 30 games each would leave room for a decent cup competition and a regionalised league cup (ie 8 x regional groups, then knockout). First Div would also be national, but 2nd Div could be regionalised (three or four).

We need to create some sort of Irish Soccer (or Football, whatever) Federation, as an overarching body because I'll be difficult to get rid of IFA and FAI in the short term. Sort of like the IRFU has four branches, only we'd have two (IFA and FAI).

Some very good points there.
I dont think there is any problem with the Ulster team in Rugby, it would be along the same Lines as that.
I agree with the 16 teams aswell (x2), i think thats leaving enough room for whatever sort of cup competitions get going aswell. The League can be expanded then if needed to make it bigger. its better that way than having a bigger league and reducing the amount of teams in it through relegation.

[Kingdom]

My knowledge of the Irish league wouldn't be the best now to be fair. I'd know Linfield Cliftonville and that but as for the others it wouldn;'t be the best so if ye lads say that it is spread out then fair dues.
There has to be some way of increasing the prfoile of the regional teams in whatever set up the irish teams end up in.
By all rights Limerick and Galway should be there as for the size of those cities for them not to be challenging in the highest league in the country is terrible.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

I'm against the idea of an all-island league. A number of logistical reasons would prevent it from working. We have to ask ourselves the question: why were Derry City forced out of the Irish League originally? Security would be a major worry on a week to week basis.

It would appear that an all-Ireland league will only come with one organisation, one national team, etc. I think those north of the border would be steadfast in their opposition to such measures. I can't blame them because as time goes on I would expect numerous positions in both the organisation and the national team to be dominated by representatives from the Republic.

An issue that has yet to be mentioned is the fact that the island would lose 50% of its representation in Europe. Instead of having 8 clubs from the island in Europe, we would have only 4. This would put huge financial strains on those clubs wishing to pursue full-time football. So people can talk all they like about the commercial advantages of a united league, but realisticallly, things will change very little. Any extra support created by interest in the new league could be eradicated by the long distances which fans are expected to travel. As always, it will be the same group of hard-core fans who will end up making the long trips.

With the improving political climate in the North this may well be a viable option in 5 years time. I feel that the FAI and those involved in football in the Republic are more enthusiastic than those in the 6 counties.

From a personal point of view, I would be very much against the FAI and IFA joining. An all-Ireland national team may be forced to play every second home game in Belfast. This would mean that international matches are not accessible to the majority of fans in the Republic.

Lets keep things as they are.

[crc]

From a personal point of view, I would be very much against the FAI and IFA joining. An all-Ireland national team may be forced to play every second home game in Belfast. This would mean that international matches are not accessible to the majority of fans in the Republic.

Lets keep things as they are.

What a weak point. Even if they were forced to play every second home game in Belfast (and they wouldn't at least until there's a decent stadium), that's the situation that exists in many other countries (Germany, Italy, England until Wembly's finished, etc..).

As it stands an international game for people outside the pale means a trek to Dublin, and possibly an overnight stay (if its a game under lights). We should be embracing the principle of moving some (not all) games around the country (if and when there are grounds that could accomodate them).

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

What a weak point. Even if they were forced to play every second home game in Belfast (and they wouldn't at least until there's a decent stadium), that's the situation that exists in many other countries (Germany, Italy, England until Wembly's finished, etc..).

As it stands an international game for people outside the pale means a trek to Dublin, and possibly an overnight stay (if its a game under lights). We should be embracing the principle of moving some (not all) games around the country (if and when there are grounds that could accomodate them).

Its ok for the likes of Italy and Germany that have large stadiums all over the country. I've spent most my life in Longford and it never stopped me going to the international matches in Dublin. That is where the games should stay. I think a lot of our fans would be against moving games to Belfast in front of 12,00 people. Fair enough if it was Semple Stadium or Pairc Ui Caoimh. Its about letting as many fans see the games as possible.

[Dillo]

Its ok for the likes of Italy and Germany that have large stadiums all over the country. I've spent most my life in Longford and it never stopped me going to the international matches in Dublin. That is where the games should stay. I think a lot of our fans would be against moving games to Belfast in front of 12,00 people. Fair enough if it was Semple Stadium or Pairc Ui Caoimh. Its about letting as many fans see the games as possible.


Prime Minister, there's no way I'd agree with playing international matches in Munster venues. This would accomadate the l@ngers down south and God knows, who likes doing anything in their favour! :confused:

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Prime Minister, there's no way I'd agree with playing international matches in Munster venues. This would accomadate the l@ngers down south and God knows, who likes doing anything in their favour! :confused:

Fair point Dillo. Was just using it as an example. I know its hypothetical, but maybe Pearse Stadium in Galway could be used instead. Not as many l@ngers in the West.

[crc]

I've spent most my life in Longford and it never stopped me going to the international matches in Dublin.

Longford is 75 miles from Dublin. There are places in the country a lot further away from Dublin than Longford.


moving games to Belfast in front of 12,00 people.

read my post again and see the points made about stadiums


and they wouldn't at least until there's a decent stadium


if and when there are grounds that could accomodate them

[ShelsTim]

I'm against the idea of an all-island league. A number of logistical reasons would prevent it from working. We have to ask ourselves the question: why were Derry City forced out of the Irish League originally? Security would be a major worry on a week to week basis.

Security is no longer as big an issue as it was. Look at the friendlies set up between Linfield and Derry, look at the various friendlies that regularly occur between North-South teams. I'm not saying there's no chance of trouble, but with a proper security system and segregation, it shouldn't be a problem.


It would appear that an all-Ireland league will only come with one organisation, one national team, etc. I think those north of the border would be steadfast in their opposition to such measures. I can't blame them because as time goes on I would expect numerous positions in both the organisation and the national team to be dominated by representatives from the Republic.

So, it might fail therefore we shouldn't bother trying? Is it so wrong that people from the republic would dominate, it does compromise 2/3 of the area and population of the island. It'ld be no different to people from Dublin sominating the current FAI.


An issue that has yet to be mentioned is the fact that the island would lose 50% of its representation in Europe. Instead of having 8 clubs from the island in Europe, we would have only 4. This would put huge financial strains on those clubs wishing to pursue full-time football. So people can talk all they like about the commercial advantages of a united league, but realisticallly, things will change very little. Any extra support created by interest in the new league could be eradicated by the long distances which fans are expected to travel. As always, it will be the same group of hard-core fans who will end up making the long trips.

There would be a lot more interest in Linfield-Shels than Longford-Shels, meaning more Shels fans would come to the game, which would cancel out the reduction in fans travelling from Belfast, which probably wouldn't be significant anyway. I agree that the benefits might diminish as time goes by, but regular Belfast-Dublin, Belfast-Cork and Derry derbies would increase numbers significantly and when the fans see the great spectacle these games hold, they'll keep coming back. As well as that, sponsorship would be easier to get, just look at the Setanta Cup. I'm sure Setanta themselves would be interested in sponsoring and if they get behind it, RTE will follow fairly lively and hey presto-decent coverage, which would cancel the affect of a loss of European fixtures.


With the improving political climate in the North this may well be a viable option in 5 years time. I feel that the FAI and those involved in football in the Republic are more enthusiastic than those in the 6 counties.

From a personal point of view, I would be very much against the FAI and IFA joining. An all-Ireland national team may be forced to play every second home game in Belfast. This would mean that international matches are not accessible to the majority of fans in the Republic.

Lets keep things as they are.

As soon as a decent stadium is built in Belfast, it can easily be moved there. It isn't such a big deal to get to Belfast from the republic, if country folk can get to Dublin, I'm sure they can manage getting to Belfast.

[thejollyrodger]

I think it would be best to see how things go with the sentanta cup for a while first. It's a nice idea to have the all Island league but there is a lot of disadvantages

There is going to be a major problem in travelling for the smaller teams. For example are fans from belfast going to travel to cork to watch an away match for 2 or 4 games a year ? Would Cork City fans want to go to scummy Belfast ?

Will it be financially viable ? There is increased cost associated with all the travelling. And will the clubs benefit from it ? The standard of football up north is a lot lower (UEFA rankings) so there might not be a lot in it for the clubs in the south.

I think the crowd trouble is behind us now. A lot of the sectarian stuff is still there but things arent as high strung as before and I can't see there being a major riot and the matches, although I'm sure there will be some incidents.

the plural of um is a i.e stadium - stadia.

Cant wait till the sentanta cup starts and then the wipping can begin :D

[dean02]

Now ... that is a question of substance !!
If Fran Rooney gets the chop .... it be one of the biggest injustices that the FAI have ever done to the people of Ireland.
QUOTE]

Please, please tell me what exactly has Fran Rooney done in this regard that if he gets the chop that this is one of the biggest injustices that the FAI have ever done to the people of Ireland?

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

ShelsTim and crc, I think ye are being very idealistic. I just cant see large numbers of fans coming out for an all-Ireland league. We already know what football "fans" are like on this island. The Premiership will always be more attractive to these idiots. I would fear that we would have a situation whereby it is the same loyal supporters following their teams. An all-Ireland league would simply increase the expense on these supporters and their clubs.

I think you are being very naiive if you think security would not be a problem. We are not talking about one-off games here. We are talking about a weekly situation where a number of teams from the Republic would play a number of teams from the North in a number of venues. Im afraid neither the EL nor the IL have a particularly good record when it comes to security. We cant even keep control of Shamrock Rovers supporters in run-of-the-mill games so how can we keep control on supporters in highly-charged games with a sectarian undercurrent.

As for building quality stadia in different parts of the country, nice thought but it aint gona happen. We cant even build a football stadium of international quality in our capital so what chance have we of doing it somewheere else.

By the way, some people might think that it is not a big deal losing 4 places in Europe for clubs on this island. That is rubbish. Sponsorship and commercial support would need to be massive to make up for the loss of European revenue. Clubs like Shels and Bohs need the revenue from European games to support full-time structures. If these clubs were to lose their full-time status, surely that would be a step back for football on this island.

Lets be more realistic from now on. As someone already pointed out, lets wait and see how the Setanta Cup goes before we start harping on about this all-Ireland sh!te.

[Slash/ED]

We already know what football "fans" are like on this island.

I think football "fans" on this island aren't automatically supporters of the premiership but will go wherever there's a bit of hype. I think an all ireland league will create that hype and that's what's missing from the EL at the moment and that's what's keeping attendences down.

[dean02]

I think football "fans" on this island aren't automatically supporters of the premiership but will go wherever there's a bit of hype. I think an all ireland league will create that hype and that's what's missing from the EL at the moment and that's what's keeping attendences down.

I'd have to agree with the P.M, a trial run may tell us more but can't help feeling that it would be the normal seasoned fans of clubs attending. Hype may work for Ireland matches or some of the more choice matches but overall, potential security issues would put these hype susceptibles off. Especially if it security is handled by the clubs and not by the authorities. There's been some incidents recently at LOI games but some of the violence shown on TV at matches in the North looks frightening.

[crc]

I tend to agree that the hype needs to be based on something more fundamental than the novelty of playing northern clubs, which will wear off after a while. For example Derry got huge attendances after they joined the LoI, but since the mid-90s they have been similar to the average LoI club.

I remember a few years ago, I saw posters springing up around Cork advertising the next home game. For some reason they stopped, but I thought this was a very good way to bring eL football to the wider public's attention.

They only seem to work if they are updated regularly and on time (and taken down on time). I also remember seeing the same poster advertising a Cork City v St. Pat's game that was months out of date - this does nothing for the league.

The hype needs to be immediate. e.g. People need to see the posters (or whatever else) starting on Monday morning, building up to the big game on Friday night. The game needs to permiate the public consciouslness.

[ShelsTim]

ShelsTim and crc, I think ye are being very idealistic. I just cant see large numbers of fans coming out for an all-Ireland league. We already know what football "fans" are like on this island. The Premiership will always be more attractive to these idiots. I would fear that we would have a situation whereby it is the same loyal supporters following their teams. An all-Ireland league would simply increase the expense on these supporters and their clubs.

You fears are well founded, but if we pool the funds of the two organisations and the merger results in a more streamline association, who's to say we couldn't generate the hype needed to bring in the crowds. Fans would increase initially and it would be easier to increase on them if we make gains in Europe which we look likely to do.


I think you are being very naiive if you think security would not be a problem. We are not talking about one-off games here. We are talking about a weekly situation where a number of teams from the Republic would play a number of teams from the North in a number of venues. Im afraid neither the EL nor the IL have a particularly good record when it comes to security. We cant even keep control of Shamrock Rovers supporters in run-of-the-mill games so how can we keep control on supporters in highly-charged games with a sectarian undercurrent.

If there is a real threat to security, the guards and PSNI will become involved and if they handle it properly, which they should do, the PSNI would be very experienced, I don't see why security can't be overcome.


As for building quality stadia in different parts of the country, nice thought but it aint gona happen. We cant even build a football stadium of international quality in our capital so what chance have we of doing it somewheere else.

Yes we can, we are in the process of doing it right now. I'm not saying build quality stadia in the four corners of the country, just a decent one in Belfast, if there's a demand to have home internationals played there, with a bit of cash from the British government it shouldn't be too hard to manage.


By the way, some people might think that it is not a big deal losing 4 places in Europe for clubs on this island. That is rubbish. Sponsorship and commercial support would need to be massive to make up for the loss of European revenue. Clubs like Shels and Bohs need the revenue from European games to support full-time structures. If these clubs were to lose their full-time status, surely that would be a step back for football on this island.

Not really, Shels made 400,000 from the CL shenanigans, the IL clubs(and let's face it, they'll be the ones losing out), generally don't pass the first round, which is against tiny teams that no one cares about. The gates wouldn't be huge for those games and I sponsors would hardly pay out millions for them. So, if gates went up 1,000-2,000 a game on average with double the sponsorship, why couldn't the revenue be reclaimed?


Lets be more realistic from now on. As someone already pointed out, lets wait and see how the Setanta Cup goes before we start harping on about this all-Ireland sh!te.

It is far from ****e, let's take in everyone's argument before calling things ****e. And yes, let's see how the Setanta Cup goes, though I believe that's a testing ground for Setanta to see if there's money in the eL and cross-border competitions.