Republic of Ireland V Turkey, Italy, Costa Rica & Portugal - May/June 2014

[tricky_colour]

He had best not mention Portugal though ;)

"I didn't see that match".

However I have said before that is is fairly common for a team which wins by a big margin in it's last game to
lose by a big margin in it's next.

The other side of that coin is that the next team Ireland faces is likely to get annihilated.

Poor old Poland.

[Stuttgart88]

I think you need to check the fixture list.

[tricky_colour]

Well, which is it? Were you unsure of your grammar and hedging your bets?

I have a very short memory.

[tricky_colour]

I think you need to check the fixture list.

Yes I did. but I read it the wrong way up. I did think at the time October is a blood long time to wait
for the next fixture, didn't notice it was October 2015.
So it will be Oman who get a good hammering,.

[geysir]

Has McClean commented on the Portugal game yet?
Portugal left their best behind in the Giants Stadium, peaked a week too early####

or however that's expressed in twitterdom.

[Stuttgart88]

Our Millwall, Reading (x2), Derby and Brighton/Wolves defence lulled them into a false sense of security.



Btw, O'Neill's talk of it'd be nice to have 15 EPL players to choose from is annoying me. If his point was it'd be nice to have 5 CL players to choose from I'd be more understanding.

Coleman, O'Shea, Delaney, Clark, Wilson, Whelan, Walters, Long, Meyler, Quinn, Hoolahan, Piilkington, McCarthy, Gibson, Brady and Quinn are all regulars or near enough at EPL level (that's 16). McShane, Stokes, McClean, McGeady and Westwood have all played EPL or CL and acquitted themselves well enough. Andy Reid is still an outstanding Championship player as is Dunne, who is still a cut above half of the CBs in the EPL.

Our worst fringe players are very good players at Championship level. There's a guy from Cobh at Stoke who is well regarded at EPL level and my guess is he'll be playing for is.

[paul_oshea]

Is Keane going back playing?!

Why do ye think si will be back.

interesting debate on jon obi mikel

[paul_oshea]

Anyone any idea who the couple of new recruits might be?!

[tricky_colour]

Portugal left their best behind in the Giants Stadium, peaked a week too early####

or however that's expressed in twitterdom.


Portugal next face the USA going my theory of alternating form the USA could get hammered by Portugal.

I figure Portugal let the Ireland result go to their heads and became complacent, the USA might also be
looking at their drubbing by Germany and begin to think Portugal are overrated, they could be in for a
shock!!

[GypsyBlackCat]

In fairness Di Canio is full crap! It was O'Shea, Brown and Cattermole who were chosen by the squad to represent them. Interesting point, MON appointed O'Shea as captain at SAFC.

[GypsyBlackCat]

That's clutching at straws. Luxembourg drew with Italy, so Luxembourg are just as good as Italy. We were poor over the last four games. Time to move and hope MON can inject some new life into the squad. We looked a bit jaded and disjointed.

[Fixer82]

That's clutching at straws. Luxembourg drew with Italy, so Luxembourg are just as good as Italy. We were poor over the last four games. Time to move and hope MON can inject some new life into the squad. We looked a bit jaded and disjointed.

I disagree. I thought we were pretty good against Italy. Against Serbia and Turkey we could have won and certainly should have scored more goals. Portugal was poor but, in context, it was the last game of season for our lads and their last game before the World Cup

[Stuttgart88]

Anyone any idea who the couple of new recruits might be?!
I'd say David McGoldrick of Ipswich is one.

And maybe Ryan McLaughlin:)

And wrt the Cobh bloke, I just think he'll be back, dunno why.

[paul_oshea]

Did McLaughlin not feature for NI out in South America?

[Gather round]

Did McLaughlin not feature for NI out in South America?

Started one game, finished the other, looked good in both. Probably our greatest threat of a goal.

As Herr Stuttgart was hinting, this probably reduces the threat of him transferring, although you never know. I mean, at the end of last season a lot of us had basically given up on him ever playing for NI :rolleyes:

[Razors left peg]

To be fair NI fans would have a right to be properly p1ssed off if McLaughlin switched after playing a full international for them. Cant see it happening though

[DannyInvincible]

In accordance with the rules, representing them in a friendly would not constitute any indication or expression of commitment. Sure, Alex Bruce represented us in two senior friendly fixtures before representing them in full internationals. The IFA were more than eager to get him on board. If McLaughlin was to switch, although I don't see it happening myself either, they'd have little right to be making any issue of it.

[Razors left peg]

I dont normally wade into eligibility discussions, but I would have to say that even though by all the rules he still has the right to switch I still think that NI would have the right to be annoyed about it. If for example McCarthy had switched to Scotland after playing a friendly or 2 with us Id be sick about it

[DannyInvincible]

The rule exists to protect players' interests from what might be perceived as the power of unscrupulous or happy/carrot-capping associations. If an association are really serious about a player, they can play him in a competitive fixture; if a player is really serious about an association, he can represent them in a competitive fixture.

If it wasn't for the allowance to switch association once, for example, Tim Cahill would still be cap-tied to Samoa after having represented them in a 1994 OFC Under-20 Championship fixture at the age of 14. In fact, it was the reason Mick McCarthy was unable to call him up for us in 2002. Of course, when the rule to switch was first relaxed in 2004, Cahill opted to switch to Australia instead.


If for example McCarthy had switched to Scotland after playing a friendly or 2 with us Id be sick about it

In the interests of consistency though, why no anger for the IFA and Alex Bruce?

[Razors left peg]

In the interests of consistency though, why no anger for the IFA and Alex Bruce?

Cos hes crap :D

Look Im all for getting players under the Granny Rule and Im more than happy to take players from the North if they would prefer to play for us. I think we need to take advantage off all the rules in order to get the strongest 11 on the pitch, every country does it. My point just is that with McLaughin he has had plenty opportunity to declare for us but now that he has played for the North I could under stand why they would be annoyed if he changed his mind.... Lets just say its my version of Stutts gut test!!!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Isn't, er this the wrong thread?

As numerous posters passim have been quick to point out. S.Stu to thread.

[DannyInvincible]

Rules must be applied consistently across the board though. We can't have one standard for players we deem crap and another for players we deem more valuable. Anyway, I won't harp on about it; there's a World Cup on... :)

[Razors left peg]

Rules must be applied consistently across the board though. We can't have one standard for players we deem crap and another for players we deem more valuable. Anyway, I won't harp on about it; there's a World Cup on... :)

Yeah last word I'll say on it too it that I have absolutely no problem with the rules at all, just that I could understand annoyance in losing a player in SOME cases

[Stuttgart88]

I was only stirring / joking when I mentioned him. I think and hope GR got that. There's good stirring and bad stirring. Mine was intended to be good.

[Razors left peg]

I was only stirring / joking when I mentioned him. I think and hope GR got that. There's good stirring and bad stirring. Mine was intended to be good.

Rookie mistake..... this is the internet, stirring can cause 15-20 pages of utter idiocy. Please be more careful in future :)

[SkStu]

Isn't, er this the wrong thread?

As numerous posters passim have been quick to point out. S.Stu to thread.

I agree AB. A disgraceful lack of respect for the well established forum rules. And the internet generally...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha Stu. Fair play.


I was only stirring / joking when I mentioned him. I think and hope GR got that. There's good stirring and bad stirring. Mine was intended to be good.
The only stirring our rotund correspondent is really interested in, is what's cooking in the pot as part of many imminent courses, each and every night...

[paul_oshea]

interesting how oneill viewed the goal against Australia and playing the offside. He blamed the centre backs for not following van Persie even tho they kept the offside line.i see what he is saying and with offsides often missed it makes sense to an extent but I still don't agree!!

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't we concede the same goal against both Serbia and Turkey, with Coleman and Wilson getting left behind the other 3 to play the goalscorer onside? Wilson had just come on as CB against Turkey I think.

[tricky_colour]

interesting how oneill viewed the goal against Australia and playing the offside. He blamed the centre backs for not following van Persie even tho they kept the offside line.i see what he is saying and with offsides often missed it makes sense to an extent but I still don't agree!!

I can see both sides of the argument, O'Neil side is if you can't be sure the centre back has to follow van Persie in
On the other hand if the full-back are doing their job you don't need to.

I think it's better to be safe than sorry, if you try to play offside and get it wrong it's an easy goal often,
if you follow them in when you didn't need to they still have to beat the defence.

[tricky_colour]

Didn't we concede the same goal against both Serbia and Turkey, with Coleman and Wilson getting left behind the other 3 to play the goalscorer onside? Wilson had just come on as CB against Turkey I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEXYgacc-dw

Yep about 2.20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEXYgacc-dw

Not sure if it is the same as the CB was trying to block a shot.

Rather disorganed generally but good movement form the turks.

The guy who was central who made the through pass should have been marked.

[Charlie Darwin]

Nice little quote from Strachan on ITV: Speaking about Rooney, "People talk about playing in the hole, but if the hole's not there you've got to go and play somewhere else." To be fair to Hoolahan, any time he's played there for us he's managed to find a hole.

[paul_oshea]

Didn't we concede the same goal against both Serbia and Turkey, with Coleman and Wilson getting left behind the other 3 to play the goalscorer onside? Wilson had just come on as CB against Turkey I think.

Ya its an interesting one, if you are asked to play a way for your country completely different to your club then it will cause all sorts of confusion, and we have looked very confused at the back under oneill.

O'neill seemed to get thick towards the end of the piece actually, always thought he was a bit sore and I think he showed it yesterday again.

[tricky_colour]

Nice little quote from Strachan on ITV: Speaking about Rooney, "People talk about playing in the hole, but if the hole's not there you've got to go and play somewhere else." To be fair to Hoolahan, any time he's played there for us he's managed to find a hole.

Are we still talking about football?

[Charlie Darwin]

I knew somebody was going to read something like that into it, but I expected it would be one of the louts. Not you, tricky :(

[geysir]

The thing about Hoolahan is that he also worked so hard in our half against Portugal to get on the ball and moving up to try and direct the play in front of our midfield.
I was of the opinion that under Trap it would have been futile to have a skilled player like Hoolahan 'in the hole' because we wouldn't be able get the ball to him against better teams.
We have 2 holes to fill, one in front of the back 4 and one in front of CM, a player with the energy and skill of Modric could do both, Hoolahan showed against Portugal he could do both but is shipping water when it's just him and against a quality pressing team.
It was unfortunate in these friendlies that that we didn't see any game with both McCarthy and Hoolahan starting.
What Hoolahan put to bed was the idea that he would be a liability in CM against the (growing list of) better teams.

[Fixer82]

It was unfortunate in these friendlies that that we didn't see any game with both McCarthy and Hoolahan starting.
What Hoolahan put to bed was the idea that he would be a liability in CM against the (growing list of) better teams.

Do you think a 4-4-2 with Hoolahan and McCarthy would work? Or would you have Robbie dropping in to the hole behind Long in a 4-4-1-1 formation?

[Stuttgart88]

Robbie has never convinced me as anything but a pure striker.

I think the biggest lesson of all the recent games is that we are at our most effective using 4231. I think Doyle should be the 1.

[Fixer82]

Robbie has never convinced me as anything but a pure striker.

I think the biggest lesson of all the recent games is that we are at our most effective using 4231. I think Doyle should be the 1.

Interesting. I'd like to see it. I didn't see Costa Rica game (are there any links to decent highlights of it?)
I agree about Robbie. He ca play in the no.10 role but he is far more effective as an out and out striker.
Which means, if O'Neill is to continue this kind of formation Robbie's days are numbered

[geysir]

Do you think a 4-4-2 with Hoolahan and McCarthy would work? Or would you have Robbie dropping in to the hole behind Long in a 4-4-1-1 formation?
If we had to play 442, then why not Hoolahan beside McCarthy, compared to other options, against our 2nd place rivals?
Players still have to be technically proficient and confident on the ball to make whatever system they play in, work at this level.
Greece made the cautious tactics work when trailblazing at euro 2004 but they also had an outstanding technically proficient playmaker in Karagounis at CM.
They could play it without him but not as good.

We are just desperate to insert some technical ability into the engine room. I would think McCarthy & AN Other, playing in front of the back four
with Hoolahan in the front 3.
We don't have obvious players for the role of the lone frontman, Doyle is still a theory, Long has more ability about him for that role.
Robbie I'd think is a sub, an important sub, a captains sub, still indispensable.

[Fixer82]

I'd like to see O'Neill try a traditional 4-4-2 with Hoolahan and McCarthy/Gibson and Keane and Doyle up front. Then when we don't have the ball, the formation could change accordingly.

Or is the 4-4-2 just totally outdated?

[Eminence Grise]

If we had to play 442, then why not Hoolahan beside McCarthy, compared to other options, against our 2nd place rivals?
Players still have to be technically proficient and confident on the ball to make whatever system they play in, work at this level.
Greece made the cautious tactics work when trailblazing at euro 2004 but they also had an outstanding technically proficient playmaker in Karagounis at CM.
They could play it without him but not as good.


I'd like to see O'Neill try a traditional 4-4-2 with Hoolahan and McCarthy/Gibson and Keane and Doyle up front. Then when we don't have the ball, the formation could change accordingly.

Or is the 4-4-2 just totally outdated?

For now, anyway, I think it is. Which causes us problems since I can't see any of our current strikers scoring enough goals outside two up front, or the attacking midfielders making up the shortfall. Two up front might occupy teams who play with defensively poor attacking fullbacks, but the four across the middle leaves gaps. Even with a player like Karagounis. Sadly, too many of our midfielders play like they're wearing gúnas! Would a 5-3-2 counter the 4-2-3-1 that's in fashion? Going back to MMcC's early games there! Mobile wingbacks closing down wingers and switching between defence and attack, three center halves to mark the striker and pick up midfield runners? Do we have the players for that system?

[SwanVsDalton]

Robbie has never convinced me as anything but a pure striker.

I think the biggest lesson of all the recent games is that we are at our most effective using 4231. I think Doyle should be the 1.

Have to say, I'm still unconvinced by Doyle. One friendly goal doesn't undo some chronic poor form an an uncertain club future. I also think he's more one-dimensional and not nearly as much of a goal threat as Long.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd like to see O'Neill try a traditional 4-4-2 with Hoolahan and McCarthy/Gibson and Keane and Doyle up front. Then when we don't have the ball, the formation could change accordingly.

Or is the 4-4-2 just totally outdated?
I don't think 442 is outdated as such but in order for it to work against a good team you've really got to be competitive in central midfield. I'm not sure we have a pairing that can achieve that when other teams have a man advantage in that area.

When I say 4231 I'm really talking about two deeper lying midfielders but at least one likely to be further forward in attacking phases, two wide guys, and Hoolahan supporting a centre forward. I personally prefer Doyle for now but on the caveat that he's playing at least regular Championship level. I think that line up allows us to be competitive in midfield, allows us numbers when defending and allows Hoolahan an opportunity to find space when we're attacking. It does mean we'd have to score goals from midfield and set pieces though.

I've loved how 3 at the back had been used to good effect in Brazil though I doubt we'll ever try it, despite O'Neill having used it to good effect in the past.

[Fixer82]

It does mean we'd have to score goals from midfield and set pieces though.


That was one thing I really could not understand about Trap dropping Stephen Hunt. He was deadly from set pieces. God knows when McClean and McGeady cross the ball it's likely to go anywhere

[Fixer82]

Even with a player like Karagounis. Sadly, too many of our midfielders play like they're wearing gúnas!

Very nicely played sir!

[Charlie Darwin]

Robbie has never convinced me as anything but a pure striker.

I think the biggest lesson of all the recent games is that we are at our most effective using 4231. I think Doyle should be the 1.
Haven't seen anything from Doyle to suggest he can be the one. He spends too much time hanging out on the wing. He didn't do an awful lot against Costa Rica apart from the goal and I can't see him scoring too many 20 yard headers in future.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Well it certainly can't be Walters, as the Portugal game yet again proved. He doesn't link up the play, offers no goal threat, has no pace and is poor in the air. He's a battering ram which might have it's purposes but we have to be aspiring better. Whatever about his alleged poor club form, Doyle has been consistently important for Ireland.

It's just a pity that Stokes still hasn't played up front for Ireland. He can consistently score goals against poor teams; he can do it against Gibraltar and Georgia.

[the doc]

That was one thing I really could not understand about Trap dropping Stephen Hunt. He was deadly from set pieces. God knows when McClean and McGeady cross the ball it's likely to go anywhere

I always fancied us to score when Hunty whipped in his free kicks.

Interesting to know how many goals we scored from Huntys free kicks.

[Charlie Darwin]

I always fancied us to score when Hunty whipped in his free kicks.

Interesting to know how many goals we scored from Huntys free kicks.
I'd say tets would have the exact figures. Off-hand, from the 2010 campaign I can remember his assist for you against Italy, Dunne's away at Bulgaria and it was his delivery that led to Dunne's goal at home too, via O'Shea. I think there was another that year but I can't remember.