Republic of Ireland V Turkey, Italy, Costa Rica & Portugal - May/June 2014

[SwanVsDalton]

True, but lest we forget we had some pretty poor reverses in Trap's friendlies too. Australia stands out.

They wern't all consistent, granted, but Trap never ended a game with four strikers either. He treated friendlies fairly seriously but the scope for experimentation was limited.

That's something none of us liked about Trap, but here we are with a manager who is pretty much throwing a kitchen sink at friendlies. I know we'd all like to tow a line between experimentation and getting humped, but that's what going to happen sometimes. Clearly that's just MON's way. It remains to be seen whether it's a good idea or not but without it, there's no way Wes Hoolahan would have had the chance to play himself into our starting XI.

[Closed Account 2]

True, but lest we forget we had some pretty poor reverses in Trap's friendlies too. Australia stands out.

Australia was pretty bad, 3-0 from what I remember, but to a degree (at the time) it was isolated - we didn't lose another match that year which included competitive games against Italy (a), Montenegro and Bulgaria (a). The worry is we haven't looked like winning a game since Serbia and we've looked a bit naive. It's worth pointing out we had some good friendly results under Trap too, beating Italy in Liege, beating Colombia (neutral) and then beating Paraguay just before they got the QFs of the World Cup (and gave Spain their biggest scare), beating Bosnia as well.

[the doc]

Doc, apart from trying to kiss girls, will you be featuring in the transfer gossip sections anytime soon?

Me?? Probably not!

SSL? Done deal, very good club

[Crosby87]

Doc, do you think it is even ethical for fans to watch this world cup?

[SwanVsDalton]

Doc, do you think it is even ethical for fans to watch this world cup?

"If it's not the Saint, it's not morally reputable." - L Doc Hubbard.

[DeLorean]

----------------Westwood-------------

Coleman-----O'Shea---Dunne-----Wilson

----------Gibson------McCarthy--------

---Hendrick----Hoolahan----McGeady---

------------------Long-----------------


Probably Keane instead of Long for the easier looking games but I'd say this would be our best side.

[Crosby87]

You would want cox in there next to long.

[back of the net]

No historic straws to clutch, that tour happened around the Falklands war 1982 and just before the 1984 qual campaign which fizzled out early in Oslo.
Surely you are not comparing this summer tour to that one?

Was that the 7-0 against brazil trip?

[back of the net]

----------------Westwood-------------

Coleman-----O'Shea---Dunne-----Wilson

----------Gibson------McCarthy--------

---Hendrick----Hoolahan----McGeady---

------------------Long-----------------


Probably Keane instead of Long for the easier looking games but I'd say this would be our best side.

If only long could finish consistently - decent looking side all the same

But I fear greatly our striking options without keano

[Olé Olé]

----------------Westwood-------------

Coleman-----O'Shea---Dunne-----Wilson

----------Gibson------McCarthy--------

---Hendrick----Hoolahan----McGeady---

------------------Long-----------------


Probably Keane instead of Long for the easier looking games but I'd say this would be our best side.

At first, I wasn't sure about Hendrick in that position because he's not necessarily a winger but it makes sense from the perspective that Coleman would be directly behind him, providing plenty width and allowing Hendrick to tuck in and push Hoolahan further forward (Gibson too if he fancies it).

Few decent options off the bench in Meyler, Keane, Doyle, Delaney, McClean and Pilkington on the basis of that side.

Lest we forget about Robbie Brady too. He should be at full throttle come August and he showed glimpses of real quality in his first (half-) season in the Premiership. Still only 22.

[Olé Olé]

Me?? Probably not!

SSL? Done deal, very good club

Share with us, Sean.

[back of the net]

You would want cox in there next to long.

time to stop using that joke now crosby - past its sell by date now

[Charlie Darwin]

Share with us, Sean.
The Harlem Globetrotters?

[DeLorean]

At first, I wasn't sure about Hendrick in that position because he's not necessarily a winger but it makes sense from the perspective that Coleman would be directly behind him, providing plenty width and allowing Hendrick to tuck in and push Hoolahan further forward (Gibson too if he fancies it).

Yeah well he more or less plays that role for Derby, although they have more of a 4-5-1 shape with one out and out holding midfielder. I think Hendrick is a good player to help out defensively but it shouldn't be his primary function. I agree that the options aren't bad at all from the bench and even the likes of Duffy, Whelan and Walters could be useful squad players I'd add to your list.

[Stuttgart88]

No historic straws to clutch, that tour happened around the Falklands war 1982 and just before the 1984 qual campaign which fizzled out early in Oslo.
Surely you are not comparing this summer tour to that one?that's exactly what I was trying to do, clutch at some straws.

[DeLorean]

The only straw worth clutching at is that we have far better players to come back in. That's a pretty big straw though in fairness.

[mark12345]

I think two or 3 players are becoming indispensable, including both our first choice full backs.

Kerr made a very good point last night. We don't need to be able to stand toe to toe with the likes of Portugal. Qualification depends on being better than Scotland and Poland. With our best players available we do still have enough quality to have a good chance of doing that.

Anyway, off the top of my head here's my squad assessment after these 4 games:

Goalkeepers: we can only hope the confident Forde of Stockholm and Cologne turns up, or Westwood gets properly fit again.
Full backs: Coleman and Wilson indispensable. Kelly not good enough, Ward positively dangerous. A real shame Clark never got a run out at left back.
Centre backs: O'Shea a shoo in. Dunne likely to be needed. Delaney has secured his place in the pecking order. SSL must get a good club. Wilson needed at LB. Clark still has much to prove. Pearse has time to improve. Keogh is game but will be exposed by good opponents. McShane still deserves a place on the bench if fit.
Midfield: McCarthy is main man. Meyler and Hendrick benefited from these games. Gibson likely to enhance options. Whelan has gone sideways in the pecking order, maybe a step back (does he do anything else?:) ). Wes is essential. Reid will also have something to offer.
Wide men: McGeady is playing well under O'Neill and is a nailed-on starter. Pilkington is a find. McClean is what he is, and will remain close to the first XI. Brady has everything to play for.
Forwards: I think Doyle was the clear winner. Long must fight hard. Robbie will be a bench option in the main. Cox and Sammon will struggle for selection. Walters to remain as a sub. McGoldrick might have a chance.

System: 4231 with Wes in the team seems better than 442.

Manager: hard to tell. It'd be ridiculous to start asking questions. He's trying new players and new things. The qualification results will be the evidence.

Far more insightful viewpoint than some of the previous posters who are already having a go at Martin O'Neill.
Agree with almost everything you say here Stutts in terms of player evaluation. Coleman and Wilson are indeed locked on at full back position and indeed have to be played, simply because the alternatives are quite quite poor. Defence is the achilles heel of the team right now because we are leaking goals like there is no tomorrow. Dunne and O'Shea will probably get the nod for the starting game in group but Pearce and Clark or Delaney / Duffy will need to be introduced along the road.

Hoolahan is worth his weight in gold at this point and Hendrick and Meyler both had fine games against the Portugues despite the result. Robbie Brady has to come in for McLean and I firmly believe that, strange at it sounds, Stokes is a better all round attacking option (and one who should partner Brady) than Long, Walters, COx or Doyle.

All to play for in September.

[Charlie Darwin]

Can somebody explain to me why they think Wilson is a lock at full-back when he's played a grand total of about 40 minutes there under O'Neill, and then only because Ward was on his holliers?

[Stuttgart88]

I think O'Neill will have seen Ward's limitations. I have yet to watch the rerun of the Costa Rica game but the reports were that Wilson was very good there and his departure was a game changer. With decent options at CB that suggests to me that Wilson must now be the top choice for LB.

I think in general more players may well have played their way out of O'Neill's plans than played their way in. I have a feeling Ward may have played himself out. Others have yet to be seen, such as Clark and Stokes, probably Reid and dare I say it, Stephen Thingy.

Today's Guardian ran a piece saying that only a handful of countries at the WC will have a good left back, just as an aside.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well the game changer was McClean going to left-back, not Wilson going off. He played OK and supplied the cross for the goal but I wouldn't have said he was outstanding. Ward is the man in possession of the shirt unless there is evidence to the contrary. Wilson is first choice CB alongside O'Shea is how all indicators are pointing.

[mark12345]

Well the game changer was McClean going to left-back, not Wilson going off. He played OK and supplied the cross for the goal but I wouldn't have said he was outstanding. Ward is the man in possession of the shirt unless there is evidence to the contrary. Wilson is first choice CB alongside O'Shea is how all indicators are pointing.

I watched the game in its entirety last night and, don't shoot me now, but I thought we were brilliant in patches. I'll qualify that by saying our ball movement from the back was brilliant - with Hoolahan at the heart of all that was good. Of course when we got to the final third we were very limited, and that has been a problem for quite a while now. Having said that, our defending seems to get worse with the passing weeks.

Right now, I would be looking at Forde, Wilson, Coleman, Dunne and O'Shea in defence and McCarthy, Hoolahan, Hendrick (both were very good last night) and Gibson in a 4-4-2 or Gibson in midfield and Hoolahan further forward in a 4-3-3.

As I say though, apart from all the negativity of last night, Ireland actually showed signs they can keep the ball on the floor and move it out of the back quite well. Kudos to O'Neill if that is what he's trying to get them to do. That result last night won't mean a jot come next September.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Wilson is only the first choice as the current alternatives are so poor. And sadly mark12345, Stokes doesn't appear to be the answer.
Even more inconsistent than Long/Doyle IMO.

[BonnieShels]

His consistency cannot be questioned but it's his finishing that we require. Long isn't the answer there. We have been starved of goals without Robbie. Doyle is making a decent shout again for the one-up-front role.

Completely agree with Stutts' and mark12345's summations.


Can somebody explain to me why they think Wilson is a lock at full-back when he's played a grand total of about 40 minutes there under O'Neill, and then only because Ward was on his holliers?

I think the main reason for this is because Ward is poison at LB.

[paul_oshea]

Some lads are out tying their colours to the post already, the ones who were particularly anti-trap or post-trap/pro oneill, and their agenda seems to be that for the duration of the campaign without seeing any reasoning.

CD is spot on about wilson and the left back and centre back positions, but im hoping last nights performance might sow some doubts in his head...he(oneill) also mentioned that a player can play in a certain position given the circumstance for a game, but not for a duration of a season or a campaign as i read it - point in case quinn last night. SO i dont see him playing wilson there because he is not a left back, i hope he does after last night but up until last night he wasnt going to. And cd think about your post, draw the conclusion, wilson going off not the porblem but mcclean going to left back? its one and the same, wilson was good in possession against costa rica, good at linking and far better than mcclean defending so its all the same really.

And last nights performance was atrocious, the players were atrocious generally, and hendrick and meyler were not oustanding or anything close, they were decent in patches, with meyler getting far more involved. Its funny how people come out saying its an end of season friendly and all this when it suits. 5-1 in a friendly is probably worse than anything else, because in a friendly no one is going at full hog.

I see people finally see this about ward and are agreeing we need to be long shot of him, a little later than it took trap to cop on, now also the forde problem.

Stutts Forde of Germany and wherever else you said, he was the same, he made a great reaction save yesterday, thats what he is able to do but he is also able to do the other, we never had those moments against germany or those types of scenarios but if we have them again more than likely its the same. The thing is you never really know waht you get with him, but he is able pull off a couple of expectant saves of a decent keeper per game. I@m happy there is doubt, i hope Oneill sees this too because last night he said before the game he had been excellent. I didn't see it.

Another thing fleming and others i noted on here saying how we were good in possession and trying to pass it and looked good(he changed his tune after a while realising it wasnt working), anyone can look good in their own half strining 15 passess together over and back but not penetrating the opponents half. We were very limited yesterday, and a few times caught out trying to play the triangular passes.

I worry for keane/dunne and hoolohan to a lesser extent, because exactly what he said about keane and a few other things in that q & a section was how he played it the last few games.

[Razors left peg]

Looking back on the last few friendlies I think there were more negatives than positives but Id be confident that MON will learn from the negatives.

We need to find a win from somewhere to give a boost in confidence I think but at least we have a decent run of games coming up.

The negatives are mainly that most of the players thrown in are not good enough, but at least we can be positive that there wont be stupid stuff like under Trap that he will stick with the like of a Liam Miller for a couple of years when he clearly wasnt good enough just because he showed up.

Keogh, Ward, Kelly are definitely not good enough. Keogh should go way down the pecking order because we have plenty more options ahead of him. Kelly and Ward are probably next in line still just from a numbers point of view so we need to find more fullbacks.

Forde will probably keep his place for the time being but I would hope that we get another keeper playing regularly soon because he just isnt good enough.

I think under the positives we actually are playing good football at times. We didnt create a huge amount of chances last night but I think we showed in other games that we can be very dangerous at times and if we were more clinical in front of goal we could have won a few of the games. Hopefully that will come.

If we add Coleman, O'Shea, Dunne, Wilson, Delaney, St Ledger(if he ever starts playing club football again),Clarke, McCarthy, Gibson, Brady and Reid to the squad suddenly things look a whole lot brighter again.

Hoolihan, McGeady, Long, Doyle, Pilkington, McClean, Meyler, Hendrick,Quinn and Duffy have played well at different times on tour so hopefully we can be optimistic going forward.

Too early to make an assessment on MON, so good some bad but we wont know anything until the real stuff starts in September

[paul_oshea]

Thats the positive(positive-optimist) take on my negative(negative-realist), pretty much nailed on there.

[Razors left peg]

Thats the positive(positive-optimist) take on my negative(negative-realist), pretty much nailed on there.

Im usually optimistic when it comes to football.... usually means I lift myself up for a big fall though :)

[Stuttgart88]

Thats the positive(positive-optimist) take on my negative(negative-realist), pretty much nailed on there.

The "realist" thing bugs me. Which of razor's observations - which are essentially the same as mine - aren't realistic? They're certainly not wildly optimistic.

You can't say people are selective in when they read things into friendlies. Don't you? You use a bad performance to confirm your view that we're rubbish but ignore a good performance that might contradict it. It's just the other way around you don't like!

I think the only reason people aren't getting too carried away with negativity is because that back 4 was nothing like the back 4 we'd put out in a competitive game. Come the real action you'd hope that up to ten better players will be available. That's "real".

As for Forde, one thing that did impress people in several of his earlier games was the confidence with which he took high balls. Better than Shay ever did. So, he's starting to look ropey and flappy now. Let's hope he recovers his best form which, by all accounts, has been good at club level.

Did I imagine it but on Setanta last night, in O'Neill's assessment of the squad pre-match, did he hint at looking at Given again? He said something like we may have other options, some old, some new.

I'm trying to recall exactly what O'Neill said in that Q and A we were at. I think he questioned Keane's ability to put in the hard shift up front which strongly hinted at a bench position. Regardless of what he said I really would be surprised if O'Neill didn't see just how important Wes, or a player of his style, is for this team.

[BonnieShels]

The "realist" thing bugs me. Which of razor's observations - which are essentially the same as mine - aren't realistic? They're certainly not wildly optimistic.

You can't say people are selective in when they read things into friendlies. Don't you? You use a bad performance to confirm your view that we're rubbish but ignore a good performance that might contradict it. It's just the other way around you don't like!

I think the only reason people aren't getting too carried away with negativity is because that back 4 was nothing like the back 4 we'd put out in a competitive game. Come the real action you'd hope that up to ten better players will be available. That's "real".

As for Forde, one thing that did impress people in several of his earlier games was the confidence with which he took high balls. Better than Shay ever did. So, he's starting to look ropey and flappy now. Let's hope he recovers his best form which, by all accounts, has been good at club level.

Did I imagine it but on Setanta last night, in O'Neill's assessment of the squad pre-match, did he hint at looking at Given again? He said something like we may have other options, some old, some new.

I'm trying to recall exactly what O'Neill said in that Q and A we were at. I think he questioned Keane's ability to put in the hard shift up front which strongly hinted at a bench position. Regardless of what he said I really would be surprised if O'Neill didn't see just how important Wes, or a player of his style, is for this team.


I see Paul's soothsaying was top-notch yet again.

[geysir]

Well the game changer was McClean going to left-back, not Wilson going off. He played OK and supplied the cross for the goal but I wouldn't have said he was outstanding. Ward is the man in possession of the shirt unless there is evidence to the contrary. Wilson is first choice CB alongside O'Shea is how all indicators are pointing.
Does that presume O'Neill is planning to have a Qual campaign without Dunne as 1st choice?
I think the rumours that O'Neill was/is thinking along these lines are unfounded. If Dunne is up and running for the coming season, then i'd say he will be our 1st choice with O'Shea. The pressure is on O'Neill to win games when it comes to the qualifiers, he'll play Dunne if and when he's fit and good enough and not worry about his international longevity.
Wilson has had ups and downs at LB for us, but overall he's a bit better than Ward there. If Dunne and O'Shea are available then I'd say Wilson would be first choice for LB.
No doubt O'Neill is partial to Ward, it's hard not to be as he's a dedicated character, and when he was stuck for this game he called Ward back from his holiday to fill in.

[Charlie Darwin]

My suspicion is that O'Neill was planning on moving on without calling up Dunne but last night may have caused him to rethink.

[OwlsFan]

As I say though, apart from all the negativity of last night, Ireland actually showed signs they can keep the ball on the floor and move it out of the back quite well. Kudos to O'Neill if that is what he's trying to get them to do. That result last night won't mean a jot come next September.

To try and put a gloss on a 1-5 defeat is certainly giving O'Neill a lot of leeway. Any combination other than the management dream team would have the shouts for sacking already. To end up with 4 centre-forwards on the field at the end was bizarre and never mind giving everyone a run - I see Forde stayed on.

However, O'Neill will stand or fall by the competitive results and luckily enough they are not against world beaters in the beginning although strangely enough that puts more pressure on him. I wouldn't place huge hope in Gibson since his previous outings for us have been nothing special but that was under Trap and perhaps the new style might suit him better. I taped the game and got up at 6.30 to watch it with a friend who called over. I think the first two goals were by us giving the ball away in dangerous positions which is and always will be a risk under the play out from defence policy but nothing ventured...etc

Had to laugh at the commentator. The Irish were exhausted after a long season and then he said many had spent much of the season on the bench and apparently the Portuguese weren't exhausted. Curtis thought we were "back in it" when we scored to make it 3-1. We were overrun after that.

Wes continues to shine like a beacon but I wonder what all our results look like since he played? I still prefer 4-4-2 and somehow accommodate Wes in that. Rumour that Norwich want to offload him. I hope a rich Azerbaijani owner of a Championship side might fancy him for his new club.

As people say, friendlies don't count for much except ranking points and morale and spirit and optimism and history and statistics. No matter how "brilliant" we were in patches, 1-5 sucks. Germany aside, when did we last concede 5? Cyprus strangely enough is the only one I remember in the past 20 years but someone no doubt will correct me.

Enough rambling. Beat Georgian and Gibraltar and I'll sort of forget the embarrassment which is what it was.

[mark12345]

And last nights performance was atrocious, the players were atrocious generally, and hendrick and meyler were not oustanding or anything close,

Have to disagree Paul. Hendrick and Meyler were not comparable to Iniesta and Xavi or Modric and Rakatic last night, but their performances, individual and combined, were a damn site better than anything we've seen in the Irish midfield for about a decade. Granted the play of Hoolahan was exemplary in helping them on the night, but both lads (Hendrick and Meyler) actually wanted to get on the ball and play a one-two or play a diagonal in the middle of the park. That for me was a bright new beginning, and long may it continue.

As some have posted on here, there will be a few better players available in September than were there last night. We should see off Oman and then it's off to Georgia on a positive note.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Amazing how everyone has done a complete 180 on Keogh based on that performance. It was obvious against Serbia and Costa Rica too that he is out of his depth. Costa Rica's best chance in that game arose because of his getting completely outmuscled and dominated; something that recurred four times last night. Pearce is guilty by association.

Definitely some combination of O'Shea, Wilson, Dunne, Delaney, Clark or St Ledger in the Qualifiers though. I wouldn't rule out McShane or O'Dea either. Neither of them looked as God awful as Keogh and to a lesser extent Pearce did.

The LB problem complicates things if Wilson has to play there. I would say O'Shea would be a decent bet but he has been one of the only near ever presents at CB over the last year and a half. Take him out of the CB reckoning and you are looking at a rusty/new partnership.

Forde is in the doghouse too. I think he is someone that makes the mundane look spectacular and sometimes can't even perform the basics right.

Hendrick and Meyler look really good together. Amazing to think that neither will feature from the start in the Qualifying campaign.

[Charlie Darwin]

I get the impression that every goal last night made the smile on your face grow a little wider.

[paul_oshea]

So does everyone think then the only real positive to come from these friendlies were the new midfield partnership of Hendrick and Meyler?!

Interesting...:D

[Razors left peg]

So does everyone think then the only real positive to come from these friendlies were the new midfield partnership of Hendrick and Meyler?!

Interesting...:D

No, Hoolihan becoming a growing influence, Pilkingtons performance against Italy, Shane Duffy getting his first cap, and the passing attacking football we played at time were positives too

[Razors left peg]

Oh and Doyles performance too

[geysir]

My suspicion is that O'Neill was planning on moving on without calling up Dunne but last night may have caused him to rethink.
It's a thought but it was Dunne's choice to pull out of the summer games and declared he would be available after the summer.
He's not a player that would be hanging around the squad, unless he was important to the team.
Of course the declaration could be shameless self promotion that irish players of low repute are prone to doing.:rolleyes:

[paul_oshea]

pilkington had loads more chances why get excited about one? The others were average at best so it's a bit silly getting happy that he had 1 good game in 3.
Shane Duffy was always going to get a cap I don't see how that's a particularly positive thing to take it doesn't influence how we played.
finally hoolahan has always been playing for oneill or mostly anyway and we all knew his ability before this.its not something new.

so I'd go back to the original and maybe throw in 30 mins of Doyle but again it's one half of 4 games and it's hardly like that Costa Rican defence contained any world beaters.

[Razors left peg]

You're a hard man to please Paul :)

[Charlie Darwin]

It's a thought but it was Dunne's choice to pull out of the summer games and declared he would be available after the summer.
He's not a player that would be hanging around the squad, unless he was important to the team.
Of course the declaration could be shameless self promotion that irish players of low repute are prone to doing.:rolleyes:
Or he called up Dunne knowing he'd played 47 games or whatever and would likely pull out. It's hard to know. Instinctively, I don't foresee Dunne being able to play a full Premier League season and flying to Dublin for mid-week fixtures when he does get the opportunity for a rest.

[SwanVsDalton]

So does everyone think then the only real positive to come from these friendlies were the new midfield partnership of Hendrick and Meyler?!

Interesting...:D

If the management team have refined their thinking on who the best XI and from here can put together a coherent plan to get to the Euros, then yes it was very positive. :)

Of course, that remains to be seen but I'd say most international managers would say out-of-season friendlies are mostly of long-term value ie blood new players and partnerships; get the group away for a prolonged spell of squad building.

Getting a tanking is far from ideal but you learn more from mistakes than just cruising along.

As an aside, I think the problem with this group of Irish players isn't so much a complete lack of talent, so much that there are so many decent players of roughly the same quality. With a lack of real gimme's in the team, there's a lot of different players being tried out for a number of available roles. To me it seems O'Neill is casting his net wide and far in order to refine who's who in the pecking order. He's largely leaving no stone unturned. That's fair enough, as long as he now has a good idea of his best XI and his best squad.


Hendrick and Meyler look really good together. Amazing to think that neither will feature from the start in the Qualifying campaign.

I think there's a real chance one of them has or will displace Whelan.

[Charlie Darwin]

I am convinced Hendrick will start the first Euro qualifier if fit, alongside McCarthy.

[tricky_colour]

What in 'the hole'?

[Charlie Darwin]

Tricky, you've done it again.

[tricky_colour]

Tricky, you've done it again.

Yes I forgot to quote the post about Cox playing along (no pun intended) side Long

[Stuttgart88]

pilkington had loads more chances why get excited about one? The others were average at best so it's a bit silly getting happy that he had 1 good game in 3.
Shane Duffy was always going to get a cap I don't see how that's a particularly positive thing to take it doesn't influence how we played.
finally hoolahan has always been playing for oneill or mostly anyway and we all knew his ability before this.its not something new.

so I'd go back to the original and maybe throw in 30 mins of Doyle but again it's one half of 4 games and it's hardly like that Costa Rican defence contained any world beaters.
You're right as always Paul. The whole thing was a disaster. O'Neill will have learnt nothing and will not have benefitted from spending a long time with the players, nor will the players have learnt anything about O'Neill's plans and methods. We have no better players who didn't make the trip. When it comes to playing Georgia we might as well have let the players go to Iboza with their friends and families, and we might as well cancel the Oman friendly too.

[pineapple stu]

Germany aside, when did we last concede 5? Cyprus strangely enough is the only one I remember in the past 20 years but someone no doubt will correct me.
No, you're right. Before that, it was the 7-0 in Brazil... And before that, it was the 6-0 in Austria in 1971.

So once every ten years bar our successful period, give or take. :)

[Closed Account 2]

As people say, friendlies don't count for much except ranking points and morale and spirit and optimism and history and statistics. No matter how "brilliant" we were in patches, 1-5 sucks. Germany aside, when did we last concede 5? Cyprus strangely enough is the only one I remember in the past 20 years but someone no doubt will correct me.

Enough rambling. Beat Georgian and Gibraltar and I'll sort of forget the embarrassment which is what it was.

Agree completely, I can't see how people are sugar coating a 5-1 with lines like "we passed it well in patches". It's not like we were down to 10 men or the goals were all clustered at the end of the match. The defense was an utter shambles, the subs were bizzare and there was no cohesive team structure for huge chunks of the game. It's a worrying trend, even factoring in the fact they are friendlies we havent won in 5 matches and have shipped 10 and scored 4 which, as you say, isn't great form to take into the qualification matches.

The (probable) world rankings don't make for great reading, we're looking at 71st place and I dont know if this has even factored in the Portgual game.

http://www.football-rankings.info/2014/05/fifa-ranking-june-2014-probable-ranking.html

As you say judge him after Georgia and Gibraltar, but any excuses about him needing games to asses the squad or try things out will sound a bit hollow after these five games.