Republic of Ireland V Turkey, Italy, Costa Rica & Portugal - May/June 2014

[Stuttgart88]

Ole Ole,

I think the key is for the management to learn which players have something and which ones don't from these 4 games. It'd be no harm at all if Whelan and Green get demoted as a result of that showing, with Hendrick, Meyler and Quinn improving their status.

I'm not convinced by Joey O'Brien and one or two others, especially the back up keepers if Westwood doesn't regain match fitness, bit overall I agree. We don't have adequate cover at GK, RB and barely have an adequate LB but elsewhere we're not reliant on any one player in any position. There's a pool of decent options.


Last night was about as weak a team as we have put out in a friendly so it's no biggy. If MON gets a clear picture in his mind of the players and the system that works best for us - surely he must be getting close to it now- then great, the games will have been useful.

[Olé Olé]

Ole Ole,

I think the key is for the management to learn which players have something and which ones don't from these 4 games. It'd be no harm at all if Whelan and Green get demoted as a result of that showing, with Hendrick, Meyler and Quinn improving their status.

I'm not convinced by Joey O'Brien and one or two others, especially the back up keepers if Westwood doesn't regain match fitness, bit overall I agree. We don't have adequate cover at GK, RB and barely have an adequate LB but elsewhere we're not reliant on any one player in any position. There's a pool of decent options.


Last night was about as weak a team as we have put out in a friendly so it's no biggy. If MON gets a clear picture in his mind of the players and the system that works best for us - surely he must be getting close to it now- then great, the games will have been useful.

Wilson isn't a natural left-back but he does play quiet well there, I feel. Certainly adequate, I'd have thought. Cover there is slack though, indeed. GK is worrying though.

I agree with your point about the midfield entirely, with the qualification that maybe pitting one of Green and Whelan would have been more effective and they may have learned more. Whelan isn't a very bad option, necessarily. Although, I have a preference for Hendrick, Meyler and McCarthy and Gibson in the long run, clearly managers rate Whelan- Pulis, Hughes, O'Neill (ish) and Trapattoni all are quite reputable. He does look languid and I can't quite put my finger on certain aspects of his play i.e. his qualities in comparison to his counterparts, but there's enough experience among that quintet to render my opinion completely futile.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd be inclined to demote Whelan and Green, keeping Whelan as a squad player and Green only in the squad if others are injured but I'd accept that 442 has done Whelan no favours, nor has his choice of partners at times. He could be a deeper lying midfielder in a 4231 but even still there are others that fill those roles better. Meyler and Hendrick seemed better suited last week and with McCarthy and Gibson to return I just can't see Whelan deserving a starting place anymore. 4th or 5th choice for a central berth for me.

[Charlie Darwin]

Whelan is a classy player in his own right but to be honest I've never seen him display the energy and urgency necessary for a team of our level. I suspect part of that is down to the fact he often doesn't have to chase the ball because his instinctive positioning is a step above anyone else, which I think is why Trap loved him, but it's a skill that is a lot more effective for a containing team than a team who want to play a bit of football.

[paul_oshea]

But we never wanted to play football under trap and he was crap then too

[Charlie Darwin]

He looked crap because he wasn't doing the things you wanted him to do. Apart from a couple of notable games, he did a very diligent job containing the opposition and scored a few cracking goals, got a few assists, etc.

[paul_oshea]

What was that? going missing for 80 mins and passing the ball backwards for the other 10.come on chaz Michael Michael he has been woeful

[Stuttgart88]

Whelan gave a stray pass and turned away from O'Shea in the first few mins against Serbia, both errors that could cost us a competitive match. I can see what Chuck likes in him though, a neat and tidy passer of the ball who plays with his head up, or tries to. He's got good technique.

But, he completely lacks the ability to influence a game. He doesn't tackle particularly well, he can't carry the ball - an essential skill even in a "holding" midfielder - and has no ability to dictate the tempo. This is what midfield is all about. Just shadowing that deep space in front of the back 4 is something lots of players can do.

He has had a great run and should still be in the squad but others do the nuts and bolts better, and some add something too.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Whelan gave a stray pass and turned away from O'Shea in the first few mins against Serbia, both errors that could cost us a competitive match. I can see what Chuck likes in him though, a neat and tidy passer of the ball who plays with his head up, or tries to. He's got good technique.

But, he completely lacks the ability to influence a game. He doesn't tackle particularly well, he can't carry the ball - an essential skill even in a "holding" midfielder - and has no ability to dictate the tempo. This is what midfield is all about. Just shadowing that deep space in front of the back 4 is something lots of players can do.

He has had a great run and should still be in the squad but others do the nuts and bolts better, and some add something too.

He has been doing things like that a lot lately. He did something similar at the beginning of the Turkey game.

He did a perfunctory job during the '10 campaign but he hasn't pushed on at all. He has completely regressed.

What are these goals and assists that are spoken of? One cracker against Italy and one deflected strike against Georgia and that's it. I do remember him being directly responsible for several goals in Qualifying and indirectly responsible for several others; constantly losing the ball, getting outpaced, getting shrugged off the ball, bad positioning....

It amazes me that someone so weak and so lacking in phsyique, someone so immobile, can be entrusted with one of two CM positions. It's not like he has the lugheads packing Stoke's midfield to support him.

He doesn't offer anything. Squad player and only for his experience.

[IsMiseSean]

What's the story regarding Westwood's fitness, will be fit for the pre-season? (providing he gets a club)

[Charlie Darwin]

What was that? going missing for 80 mins and passing the ball backwards for the other 10.come on chaz Michael Michael he has been woeful
But he didn't go missing. He wasn't doing anything much with the ball, but you could see him for the other 80 minutes, moving back and forth along that midfield line about 30 yards from our goal making it difficult for the opposition to get through. That's what he was asked to do and he did it adequately. He's shown for Stoke he has more attributes to his game but they were never required under Trap because he had specific jobs for each player to do and no requirement for anything extra.

[DeLorean]

Whelan isn't a very bad option, necessarily. Although, I have a preference for Hendrick, Meyler and McCarthy and Gibson in the long run, clearly managers rate Whelan- Pulis, Hughes, O'Neill (ish) and Trapattoni all are quite reputable. He does look languid and I can't quite put my finger on certain aspects of his play i.e. his qualities in comparison to his counterparts, but there's enough experience among that quintet to render my opinion completely futile.

Yeah you've pretty much articulated exactly how I've felt about Whelan from day one. He must have some of what CD suggests, I just can't see it.

[Olé Olé]

Whelan is a classy player in his own right but to be honest I've never seen him display the energy and urgency necessary for a team of our level. I suspect part of that is down to the fact he often doesn't have to chase the ball because his instinctive positioning is a step above anyone else, which I think is why Trap loved him, but it's a skill that is a lot more effective for a containing team than a team who want to play a bit of football.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with this but I guess I'll have to observe it next game he plays, preferably live. Though, at the same time, there have been games when we have been over-run in there but perhaps that was down to Trap playing a two-man midfield when our opponents were playing 4-3-3? His job could be made easier with a 4-2-3-1 given that our ball retention has improved somewhat with this formation (and Hoolahan's implementation).

[paul_oshea]

I had to turn off the England game last night cos I couldn't listen to Andy townsend anymore and I like to have commentary on. I've never done that before but seriously he was unbelievably annoying.he will probably only get worse come England's games in the world cup.

anyway up until that point, the 75th minute, England looked just liked ireland against Costa Rica and Honduras were also down to ten men.england really were pretty awful.

[DannyInvincible]

Forde is what he is, a lower division keeper who usually looks comfortable for Ireland. I wouldn't be too worried.

Good attitude and all that, but he does have his limitations. I've always said he doesn't strike me as a natural goalkeeper. I'm not quite sure how exactly I can articulate what I sense he's lacking and it sounds very superficial, or almost prejudicial, but Westwood or even Elliot from the little I've seen of him just seem to have that composed or assured goalkeeping demeanour about them. Forde has never truly inspired me with confidence.

I didn't see the first half of the Costa Rica game, but the penalty Forde gave away would have been unforgivable in a competitive game. If you're going to go down for a ball in the box with an attacker fast approaching clearly intending to knock it by you and take advantage of any penalty-winning potential, you sure as hell better make sure you collect that ball. The attacker was going wide anyway, so it's questionable as to whether there was a need to commit. Would he have been able to score from such a tight angle? And by the time he'd have re-composed himself, the defence would have been back to cover. From what I've read and heard of the first half, unfortunately, it seems as though it was the jittery, flappy display of which I've long feared Forde is capable. #ToldUSoPOS :p


Papers said Keogh and Duffy coped well. Irish Times report mentioned Keogh a lot. Any comment?

Delighted for Shane to have finally made his senior debut after all he's come through both on and off the field. Great to play the full 90 too. He certainly didn't look out of place and coped well. We've not had a great deal of height in our team of late, so his presence is very welcome in that sense. He's a player who could prove very handy for getting a head on set-pieces in the future.

Overall, it's a pity we couldn't make the extra man count in the end. Would have been nice for O'Neill to get a win under his belt, but so long as we're learning.

[tetsujin1979]

Penalty and one incident when he came for a corner and only half punched it clear, I actually didn't think Forde did too much wrong. He made a smart save low down to his right from Campbell when he danced around mcclean in the second half that nobody has mentioned, and was well positioned to stop most other shots that came at him. I said at the time of the penalty that he was left horribly exposed by a static central defence for the penalty, and I stand by that. He should have stayed on his feet longer, but it was rush out or give the player the whole of the goal to aim at.
At this stage we're all aware of his limitations, mainly poor distribution, but until Elliot, Westwood or Lawlor get first team football he's our only realistic option between the posts.

[geysir]

There's a portion of Forde's good saves are recovery saves made after a poor kick out in play, like the one against Italy, but he's the best of the goalkeeping bunch.

[pineapple stu]

Penalty and one incident when he came for a corner and only half punched it clear, I actually didn't think Forde did too much wrong.
He flapped at and completely missed another cross in the first half too; Costa Rican guy was behind him and headed wide.

We know what Forde's like alright. This was one of his dodgier games, but that happens. Maybe Given could come back - did very well on loan at Boro by all accounts, so may still have it - but yeah, Forde is kind of typical of most of the rest of the team really.

[paul_oshea]

funny when Di made that post I thought about his save down the right.it was good if a bit slow but it's exactly what I'd expect any keeper to make really.he didn't over extend it was more middle right than to the corner, what he did well was the powerful punch clear out to the right though a lot of keepers don't have that power, still it's hardly the difference between inclusion ahead of someone else.

He made about 5 very poor mistakes, 1 cost us a goal.he made one decent save.i said earlier against better opposition and even a bounce of the balll/better positioning and we would have conceded another couple at least.

He just looked all at sea and lost.his passing was better but then he would mess up the more passing he did in one passage of play.

I like geysirs suggestion he kicks a poor kick out and saves it.good way of building up the stats...

[Stuttgart88]

He flapped at and completely missed another cross in the first half too; Costa Rican guy was behind him and headed wide.

We know what Forde's like alright. This was one of his dodgier games, but that happens. Maybe Given could come back - did very well on loan at Boro by all accounts, so may still have it - but yeah, Forde is kind of typical of most of the rest of the team really.you think most of the rest of the team is lower end of the Championship standard?

[pineapple stu]

Well I didn't mean it quite that literally. They're ok but not great.

[Grafter]

Jaysus the Irish media made a conscious decision to virtually ignore Costa Rica game in print and broadcast media, didn't they?!

[Razors left peg]

How highly is Lawlor rated? We don't have great options in goal right now so would there be a point in putting him in the way McCarthy did with Given years ago?

[DannyInvincible]

Wouldn't Shay have seen first-team action for Blackburn, Swindon and Sunderland by the time he made his Ireland debut? Has Lawlor even played first-team football yet? I don't think he has. Not that I'm necessarily saying he shouldn't be given an opportunity just to see how he copes; I've never seen him play so I've no idea what he's like, to be honest.

[Razors left peg]

I'm trying to remember back, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Shay had played a lot of first team football at the time.

Anyway, was just an idea, I've never even seen Lawlor play

[pineapple stu]

Given had about ten first team games by the time of that Russia match. None were top flight; all were on loan at Sunderland and Swindon.

Have no idea about Lawlor. Doesn't even have a wiki page!

[Stuttgart88]

Is Aaron McCarey likely to make a step up sometime soon?

I'm relaxed enough about Forde. It's not exactly the stuff of Nostradamus to predict that our goalkeeper might make a costly mistake sometime. I'm surprised he went through with that tackle v Costa Rica as he had time to pull out even at the last moment.

Obviously it'd be nice to have a consistently good top flight keeper available but Forde has been at least perfectly adequate, probably even good since he came into the team.

[bennocelt]

Jaysus the Irish media made a conscious decision to virtually ignore Costa Rica game in print and broadcast media, didn't they?!

If we didnt have the net, would there be any other way of getting that result? I havent seen the game mentioned anywhere either

[Stuttgart88]

Just bought a month's subscription for Premium Sport to catch Tuesday's game with Portugal. I have Ros v Mayo on now and the Dubs later. Not bad for 8 quid.

Ros about to go two up. If they hold on expect Paul to come on later a bit tipsy. He'll either be a little more optimistic or he'll be all GAA and anti-footy. Not sure how he'll be if they lose. 3 points up now, 9 mins left.

[Stuttgart88]

If we didnt have the net, would there be any other way of getting that result? I havent seen the game mentioned anywhere either

There are match reports on the online editions of the big 3 proper Irish papers.

Ros only 1 up now. Bottlers. I can't believe how feeble today's GAA players are.

[Stuttgart88]

Ros blew it. I hope a Mayo man didn't just pat Paul on the back.

[geysir]

That team should be put into leg irons and made to do a parade of shame around Roscommon.

[Crosby87]

Ill be on the field before the portugal match. Whats a funny thing I can say to roy if I get the chance? Do you think he will get offended if I ask him if they had bacon sandwiches for breakfast?

[Olé Olé]

Ill be on the field before the portugal match. Whats a funny thing I can say to roy if I get the chance? Do you think he will get offended if I ask him if they had bacon sandwiches for breakfast?

'Do you think Paul Lambert's watching?'

[ArdeeBhoy]

Jaysus the Irish media made a conscious decision to virtually ignore Costa Rica game in print and broadcast media, didn't they?!

Tbf, had they seen most of the game, you could hardly blame them...

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/duffy-keen-for-more-caps-30338300.html

Whelan out of the Portugal game.

[Razors left peg]

Ronaldo is back in training and might get a run out against us.

I just have one wish for this game.... please dont injure Ronaldo before the World Cup. I will end up divorced with a bounty on my head from the wife and her family :)

[Charlie Darwin]

Another wedding no doubt.

[Grafter]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/duffy-keen-for-more-caps-30338300.html

Whelan out of the Portugal game.

To be fair, probably wasn't going to play, so what's the point of him hanging around...... I think we all know Glenn's qualities at this stage:cool:

[ArdeeBhoy]

A somewhat oblique analogy?

[Grafter]

A somewhat oblique analogy?

put it down to World Cup fever... ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Which you've now deleted....
;)

[bennocelt]

There are match reports on the online editions of the big 3 proper Irish papers.

Ros only 1 up now. Bottlers. I can't believe how feeble today's GAA players are.

Exactly:D

[bennocelt]

Ill be on the field before the portugal match. Whats a funny thing I can say to roy if I get the chance? Do you think he will get offended if I ask him if they had bacon sandwiches for breakfast?

Roy I didnt notice you without your poppy, ha:p

[DannyInvincible]

Ill be on the field before the portugal match.

Will your presence be authorised this time or are you planning on streaking again? :p


http://www.independent.ie/sport/duffy-keen-for-more-caps-30338300.html

Whelan out of the Portugal game.

You demonstrated great restraint there.

[paul_oshea]

Ros blew it. I hope a Mayo man didn't just pat Paul on the back.

Ros blew it is right. Cregg could have equalised but instead he went for glory and thought of gerry lohan 2001, back of the net. Yes i would not have been happy if there was a mayo man whacking me on the back at the end, very hypocritical. I enjoyed those posts and the game, thought we played well and to a T. They dont like Evans in tipperary but he was a master tactician yesterday. We did enough to get a draw, but would have got whalloped back in Castlebar of a warms summers day. Hopefully we dont meet the puke football "purists" of the north and get a decent run - could make the quarter final with a good run - cos these lads are all very young and the experience will stand to them. THe underage is finally begining to mature, properly nurtured and flourish. Ros football is looking good a few years down the line.

Its premier, they are not the premium sports channel.

[paul_oshea]

Interesting to hear this from O'Neill:

"That's the time when we really should be putting that game to bed. Not just hanging on, but actually going and taking the game to them. We lost our way a little bit, lost a bit of energy in the middle of the field."

It was shortly after he replaced Green. The thing i found funny was, Green was making mistakes, directly as a result of pressing and trying to get involved and not giving Costa Rica anytime, but Whelan was just there doing nothing not making any mistakes.

Either way it looks like one very important thing has been learnt from these friendles, that will do for me, as i imagine O'Neill knows now exactly what he needs to do.

[Crosby87]

What is the starting lineup going to be lads?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Will your presence be authorised this time or are you planning on streaking again? :p



You demonstrated great restraint there.

I thought if I said he was out for personal reasons, people might start jumping down my throat again. :p

[geysir]

Roy I didnt notice you without your poppy, ha:p
Roy's retort, 'Crosby, I didn't notice you without your clothes.'