View Full Version : DDSL vs SFAI
NeverFeltBetter
07/02/2014, 10:05 PM
What he means is to take any dispute away from the playing pitches. Don't let the kids be the ones to suffer in an adult's argument. And for once I have to agree with him.
And if this happens again next year? I've only been observing this debate up to know, but I have to say that this kind of blatant rule-breaking, in favour of one specific region, is not something that should be tolerated. What kind of terrible lesson is that for the children involved. If the higher authority breaks the rules, roll over?
Ezeikial
08/02/2014, 7:59 AM
SFAI row deepens as Cork clubs pull out
JOHN FALLON – 08 FEBRUARY 2014
CORK'S schoolboy clubs have stood firm in their withdrawal from the SFAI national cup competition despite a late intervention by FAI chief executive John Delaney...............
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/sfai-row-deepens-as-cork-clubs-pull-out-29990841.html
Among the embarrassing and shameful aspects to emerge from this article is that John Delaney appears to recognise that the DDSL broke the rules of the competition. The FAI have backed this stance in their actions since.
That's because the Cork clubs remain steadfast in their view that Rule 2 (c) was breached by the DDSL.
The rule reads: "All teams from all regions will be included in the first-round draw, no seeding of teams shall be allowed."
Delaney admitted on Wednesday that the FAI had allowed the DDSL carry out a draw using "partial seeding".
I say "appears" because in the FAI / JD parallel universe a partial breach of regulations might be ok if it suits them.
Hang your heads in shame FAI
Cici900
08/02/2014, 9:40 AM
What he means is to take any dispute away from the playing pitches. Don't let the kids be the ones to suffer in an adult's argument. And for once I have to agree with him.
That's all fine and well if the playing field is level. But compare this to Everest, DDSL start halfways up due to seeded draw and everyone else is at the bottom. Rules were broken. Draw is a farce. End of story. This is a huge child welfare issue created by SFAI/DDSL/FAI.
ball-hop
08/02/2014, 12:36 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/sfai-row-deepens-as-cork-clubs-pull-out-29990841.html
Among the embarrassing and shameful aspects to emerge from this article is that John Delaney appears to recognise that the DDSL broke the rules of the competition. The FAI have backed this stance in their actions since.
I say "appears" because in the FAI / JD parallel universe a partial breach of regulations might be ok if it suits them.
Hang your heads in shame FAI
Many clubs have suffered along the way for not properly observing rules and regulations. Here the clubs who have observed rules and regulations, went with the official original draw for the cups and played their games when fixed by the various leagues are suffering.... At the behest of the FAI and their anxiety to include the one league who didn't observe rules and regulations.
In this instance and in all of football, rules agree NOT meant to be broken.
Finally, fair play to the Cork clubs and Schoolboy League - stand united!
Also balinasloe town who have also rejected this farce
I see there are mainly Cork people here defending the decision of adults in a adult's dispute where the kids once more take the punishment. I know what the FAI/SFAI/DDSL did was very wrong. Delany has already assured this will not happen again. Still the Cork Clubs are not happy and want to totally sabotage the cup. Well, very brave indeed lads. The teams that have pulled out should hang their heads in shame together with the FAI, who btw, has already admitted they were wrong....
Hopefully common sense will prevail and none of the other leagues will pull out...
Find another way to prove a point and fight the SFAI/FAI on this but let the kids play their well earned match in the last 32 and further....
Rory it's starting to look like you have a big problem with cork people for some reason
ball-hop
08/02/2014, 5:19 PM
I see there are mainly Cork people here defending the decision of adults in a adult's dispute where the kids once more take the punishment. I know what the FAI/SFAI/DDSL did was very wrong. Delany has already assured this will not happen again. Still the Cork Clubs are not happy and want to totally sabotage the cup. Well, very brave indeed lads. The teams that have pulled out should hang their heads in shame together with the FAI, who btw, has already admitted they were wrong....
Hopefully common sense will prevail and none of the other leagues will pull out...
Find another way to prove a point and fight the SFAI/FAI on this but let the kids play their well earned match in the last 32 and further....
I'm sure the Cork clubs involved are well aware of the depth of the decision they've been forced into. These are all clubs who have worked tirelessly for their schoolboy players.
Maybe fed up with "unusual" interpretations of rules.
Cici900
08/02/2014, 6:09 PM
I see there are mainly Cork people here defending the decision of adults in a adult's dispute where the kids once more take the punishment. I know what the FAI/SFAI/DDSL did was very wrong. Delany has already assured this will not happen again. Still the Cork Clubs are not happy and want to totally sabotage the cup. Well, very brave indeed lads. The teams that have pulled out should hang their heads in shame together with the FAI, who btw, has already admitted they were wrong....
Hopefully common sense will prevail and none of the other leagues will pull out...
Find another way to prove a point and fight the SFAI/FAI on this but let the kids play their well earned match in the last 32 and further....
Hold on. That's great. Delaney said were wrong, so suck it up, I'll ensure the rules are enforced next year but play away this year, how in the name of God is there any right in that? If he can admit they're wrong he can unwind his decisions and fix the mess. He was quick enough to act when the DDSL protested over something that wasn't wrong. The Cork clubs are protesting against something that IS wrong.
Common sense would be to pull. You cannot put the kids into an unfair and unjust competition.
When a team up the country loses to a DDSL club and appeals it because they broke the rules, don't come crying on here because you're encouraging it. This competition will be a complete farce and it should be. I hope the FAI learn a lesson from this.
Alf Honn
08/02/2014, 6:12 PM
Many clubs have suffered along the way for not properly observing rules and regulations. Here the clubs who have observed rules and regulations, went with the official original draw for the cups and played their games when fixed by the various leagues are suffering.... At the behest of the FAI and their anxiety to include the one league who didn't observe rules and regulations.
In this instance and in all of football, rules agree NOT meant to be broken.
Finally, fair play to the Cork clubs and Schoolboy League - stand united!
Only watched this from a distance in Engerland but reading dat Indo article today on web had me in shock.
Aside from the points made here about the rule breaking, am I the only one to notice who one of the 'independent' observers was at the DDSL draw? The very draw against SFAI's own rules.
It was Michael Cody. The only person in football I know with this same name was the bloke who was the rep for Cobh Ramblers back in the day. Not sure what his role is now but Id assume he was there to see the draw happen in compliance with the rules.
That's bad enough but isn't one of the 11 clubs Springfield Ramblers? They were the juvenille section of Cobh that Stephen Ireland played for.
So much for Cork togethernes in football!
Only watched this from a distance in Engerland but reading dat Indo article today on web had me in shock.
Aside from the points made here about the rule breaking, am I the only one to notice who one of the 'independent' observers was at the DDSL draw? The very draw against SFAI's own rules.
It was Michael Cody. The only person in football I know with this same name was the bloke who was the rep for Cobh Ramblers back in the day. Not sure what his role is now but Id assume he was there to see the draw happen in compliance with the rules.
That's bad enough but isn't one of the 11 clubs Springfield Ramblers? They were the juvenille section of Cobh that Stephen Ireland played for.
So much for Cork togethernes in football!
Money talks!!
schoolboygodno9
08/02/2014, 10:55 PM
Money talks!!
500k to be exact plus the ddsl being the biggest league in the country remember we live in one of the corrupts countries in all aspects of life so nothing should suprise anyone regarding this delaney has admitted rule breaking but sweeping it under the carpet reminds me of the mike bassett scene
killer"B"
09/02/2014, 11:19 AM
500k to be exact plus the ddsl being the biggest league in the country remember we live in one of the corrupts countries in all aspects of life so nothing should suprise anyone regarding this delaney has admitted rule breaking but sweeping it under the carpet reminds me of the mike bassett scene
well said bud and mike bassett what a legend :cool:
Ballymoreman
09/02/2014, 5:51 PM
http://punditarena.com/2014/02/08/schoolboy-league-infighting-creating-lot-collateral-damage/
This piece is excellent and has it all in one page.
dutchie
10/02/2014, 11:38 PM
The whole draw is a total farce,very hard on Cork but fair play to them for making a stand,Delaney has a lot to answer for and he might need the backing of schoolboy clubs someday,he knows where to go,a lot of games stil to be played at last 32 stage,when is the date for last 16.
Ballymoreman
11/02/2014, 9:55 AM
It's impossible to know where the DDSL / FAI clubs are at the minute as there website is very poor. I have been trying to find up to date progress or results but it's all being kept shrouded in secrecy. At this rate it will be June before the last 32 matches are all played. Well done FAI. Another fine mess you've gotten us into.
Heard one of the Irish youth teams are playing in cork in a few weeks time, isn't john Delaney required to be at all home international games? Doubt he'll show up though!
Ballymoreman
11/02/2014, 1:33 PM
I doubt if the DDSL will let John Delaney attend anything on their behalf in Cork (or Ballinasloe) ever again seeing as how ungrateful were after being allowed into the competition in the first place. The cheek of them to withdraw just because the rules were broken. :rolleyes:
Well, it's official. The SFAI site has been updated and the Cork teams all lost 3-0 with the comment w/d. Congratulations! You showed us all that you don't take crap from anyone.
I'm looking forward to our last 32 match this weekend(weather allowing). These games can bring so much excitement, especially for the players. They have been looking forward to it for months and the day is nearly there. Hopefully the sun will come out and play this weekend as well.
Cici900
11/02/2014, 2:54 PM
Well, it's official. The SFAI site has been updated and the Cork teams all lost 3-0 with the comment w/d. Congratulations! You showed us all that you don't take crap from anyone.
I'm looking forward to our last 32 match this weekend(weather allowing). These games can bring so much excitement, especially for the players. They have been looking forward to it for months and the day is nearly there. Hopefully the sun will come out and play this weekend as well.
And congratulations to you too on condoning the FAI/SFAI/DDSL actions. What's to say it can't happen again next year. It's sad that the Fai did so much to condone rule breaking and not look for what's right. All of the other leagues have let the Cork clubs down.
Ballymoreman
11/02/2014, 3:09 PM
I can't see how you can say the other leagues let Cork down. Most clubs decided to stay in the competition for the sake of their own players. Some teams were at the last 32 stage for the first time in their history, how could they turn around and then say sorry lads we're not playing any more.
The SFAI, FAI and DDSL let EVERYBODY down not just Cork.
I admire Cork's brave stance but ultimately it's been at a huge cost to their players and all the DDSL would have done if all the leagues pulled out would be carry on without everyone else -which is basically what they would prefer anyway.
Cici900
11/02/2014, 3:33 PM
I can't see how you can say the other leagues let Cork down. Most clubs decided to stay in the competition for the sake of their own players. Some teams were at the last 32 stage for the first time in their history, how could they turn around and then say sorry lads we're not playing any more.
The SFAI, FAI and DDSL let EVERYBODY down not just Cork.
I admire Cork's brave stance but ultimately it's been at a huge cost to their players and all the DDSL would have done if all the leagues pulled out would be carry on without everyone else -which is basically what they would prefer anyway.
Assumed the response to my last comment would be to let the kids play.
It's okay for kids to play in a competition where there is no rules or worse, where rules don’t matter.
All competitions must abide by rules.
Ezeikial
11/02/2014, 6:09 PM
And congratulations to you too on condoning the FAI/SFAI/DDSL actions.
That's a petty and childish response. Rory has been articulate and measured in his comments and certainly has not condoned the FAI/SFAI/DDSL roles in this fiasco. But then you knew that already.
What's to say it can't happen again next year.
Nothing. There is no guarantee against this sort of fudging and manipulation because of the lack of integrity of the FAI and DDSL (and SFAI to a lessor extent). Withdrawing in protest - while admirable and noble - gives no guarantee either.
It's sad that the Fai did so much to condone rule breaking and not look for what's right.
Sad, pathetic and very disturbing.
Delaney understands politics but not integrity
All of the other leagues have let the Cork clubs down.
Clubs continuing in the competition is doing the right thing for their own kids. It is not an endorsement of the behaviour of others.
Principles are easy to espouse, without considering who pays the price for a withdrawal - the kids who have worked hard to get this far.
That's a petty and childish response. Rory has been articulate and measured in his comments and certainly has not condoned the FAI/SFAI/DDSL roles in this fiasco. But then you knew that already.
I agree about him not condoning the FAI/SFAI/DDSL carry on but that last post was very much incendiary.
There will be no winners here, those that remain play in a worthless competition but I guess Rory's point is at least they are playing.
Those that have pulled out don't play at all.
Kids don't always know wrong from right and it's up to the adults involved to teach them this.
I believe this will be a good lesson for the Cork kids about honesty and integrity (or the lack there of)
the 12 th man
12/02/2014, 10:00 AM
It's pretty much a done deal now and its all been said and done by the looks of it but the fact that the DDSL are allowed drive a Coach and Four through the rule book right under the nose of "The Blazers" sets kids football back to the dark ages.
Very hard to call on the Cork clubs action in pulling the teams the way it's turning out (competition going on with just them left out) but with a bit of unity the DDSL might have been forced to pull out as they'd have been the only teams left in it.
NeverFeltBetter
12/02/2014, 11:49 AM
You have to make a stand at some point. All the other leagues have done is show that they are willing to roll over. That kind of appeasement may not work out too well. If it happens again next year, what then? Will spines suddenly appear, or will it be the same meekness?
Ballymoreman
12/02/2014, 1:36 PM
I think that in the majority of cases the individual leagues had to ultimately let the clubs decide for themselves. If all other leagues had pulled out the DDSL would have carried on without them as they had an FAI mandate in their pocket to do so. The DDSL/FAI have shown they care nothing whatsoever about teams / leagues or kids outside of their own.
jimhacker
12/02/2014, 5:10 PM
It's pretty much a done deal now and its all been said and done by the looks of it
No it isn't.
Far from it
No CEO of any organisation would get away with the arbitrary dumping of that body's rule book.
This one certainly won't.
jimhacker
12/02/2014, 5:19 PM
Well, it's official. The SFAI site has been updated and the Cork teams all lost 3-0 with the comment w/d. Congratulations! You showed us all that you don't take crap from anyone.
.
No - the congratulations are due to yourselves.
You are now in contention to win a completely devalued national title.
You should give a little bit of consideration to the wider issues here rather than sneering at the people who actually took a stand.
Ezeikial
12/02/2014, 10:05 PM
You should give a little bit of consideration to the wider issues here rather than sneering at the people who actually took a stand.
I think his sarcasm or "sneer" was directed at the SFAI rather then the clubs who pulled out in protest. I assume from your comment that you interpreted it differently.
prince20
13/02/2014, 8:25 AM
Somehow I dont think this is the end of this. Its disgraceful that it has come to this and the kids are the ones suffering but I would agree that the clubs who have withdrawn are correct in their actions. I wonder if the DDSL hadnt agreed to give the FAI €500k what would the FAI's line be. Certainly couldnt imagine them breaking their own rules.
Ballymoreman
13/02/2014, 10:51 AM
It certainly seems that a €500k deposit buys a lot of wriggle room on the rules alright. Very sad to see all the 3-0 / wd ties on the SFAI website. At the end of the day if the SFAI had the balls to stand up then Cork / Ballinasloe wouldnt have had to make their sacrifice. I'd like to think it can still be challenged but so far it's carry on regardless.
I personally think cork should boycott next year and maybe try to start a munster cup and leave them have their so called "national" cup
Ezeikial
13/02/2014, 5:23 PM
I personally think cork should boycott next year and maybe try to start a munster cup and leave them have their so called "national" cup
When there is something wrong ("wrong" is an understatement in this case) it is nearly always better to try to change from within, rather then split and splinter as a first option
There is a very strong case for all leagues to boycott the competition as it currently stands if the required changes cannot be achieved - but a boycott by a small number of clubs is unlikely to have much influence.
ball-hop
13/02/2014, 6:41 PM
What a sad, sad situation to see the SFAI National Cups proceeding. The rapidity at which the 3-0 scorelines against Cork clubs (with the "w/d") has been reported on the SFAI website is astonishing!!! Many of the teams so defeated didn't even have opposition to "defeat" them - the apparent wrong being doubled - the opposition in question hadn't even finished their last 32 qualification process.
I wouldn't feel that this is all over yet - the wrong and hurt involved here is too deep.
What options have clubs to lodge objections
club A objects to opposition Club B on the grounds of seeded qualification route in one one region to sfai. It's an sfai rule not have seeded draw therefore sfai have to rule in favour of club A. Club B then appeals to FAI and FAI have no option but reverse the sfai decision based on their intervention with the sfai competition. Now where does Club A appeal the FAI decision to?
You are now in contention to win a completely devalued national title.
It's a Cup for kids. It does not matter what you or me think about the value of the cup. I just enjoy the football. The team/players that will play in it or even win it would not get any less enjoyment out of it because there was seeding (cheating) done at the DDSL pre-32 draw or the fact that most Cork teams did not participate.
You should give a little bit of consideration to the wider issues here rather than sneering at the people who actually took a stand.
I did give it a lot of consideration and in my opinion pulling out is the wrong way to go about this as I have explained in previous posts. The "sneer" was out of pure disappointment for the Cork kids that now have to suffer because of "adults" being unable/unwilling to settle an argument between themselves. And I mean adults from the FAI, SFAI and the Cork teams.
I wouldn't feel that this is all over yet - the wrong and hurt involved here is too deep.
Hopefully this is all over and all rules will be applied and abide by next season. Personally I think this will be the case as no-one wants a mess like this again.
ball-hop
14/02/2014, 11:11 AM
The "sneer" was out of pure disappointment for the Cork kids that now have to suffer because of "adults" being unable/unwilling to settle an argument between themselves. And I mean adults from the FAI, SFAI and the Cork teams.
Adults from DDSL?
Surely, they are not above inclusion in the above suggestion.....
orchardexile
14/02/2014, 2:56 PM
This needs to be addressed by Delaney
See Statement on behalf of the management committee of the Cork Schoolboys League re the SFAI National Cups 2013/14 on the CSL website
http://www.corkschoolboysleague.ie/news_detail.php?news_id=1059
Correspondence issued on 12th Feb to Mr John Delaney the FAI to revisit this issue as a matter of urgency.
jimhacker
14/02/2014, 3:08 PM
[QUOTE=Rory;1736515.
I And I mean adults from the FAI, SFAI and the Cork teams.
Hopefully this is all over and all rules will be applied and abide by next season.[/QUOTE]
It's far from over. Why should the likes of the DDSl abide by any rules in future?
And please don't include the people involved with the dissenting clubs with DDSL and SFAI people.
One bunch blatantly manipulated the FAI and drove a coach and four through their own rulebook: the second lot cravenly accepted this and prostrated themselves before Mr. Delaney: the Cork people stood up to the two of them!!
"For evil to thrive it is sufficient for good men to do nothing"
New to this but a club defeated by a Ddsl team should appeal the result as rule 2c was broken if all teams defeated last weekend or in the comming weekends appeal the results when and if defeated by Ddsl teams the FAI could and should not ignor the rule, If they do all rules in the SFAI / FAI rule books would be null and void. This week the FAI punished a team in the u19 cup for playing a player as a sub in a game but failed to write his name on the match card, a small error but the rules say all players should be wrote on the match card, the FAI say the rules were broken here so you can't Inforce one rule and ignore another. The FAI and Delaney are wrong here and should be held to task on it.
Rory it seems your looking for things to blame the cork clubs for this,nobody in cork or ballinasloe wanted this and have said will play in the original sfai cup I've also heard of one coach from a very talented cork side has quit coaching because of this mess so don't make out adults in cork don't care there's no hidden agenda with these 12 clubs so back off them and enjoy the rest of the ddsl cup
Charlie Darwin
14/02/2014, 10:42 PM
Can somebody explain to me very simply what happened here and what the issue is? Not being funny, I'm just completely ignorant.
Can somebody explain to me very simply what happened here and what the issue is? Not being funny, I'm just completely ignorant.
Read this
http://punditarena.com/2014/02/08/schoolboy-league-infighting-creating-lot-collateral-damage/
Statement from csl
http://www.corkschoolboysleague.ie/news_detail.php?news_id=1059
Ezeikial
16/02/2014, 2:35 PM
Does the SFAI website show the original or revised DDSL draw? I suspect it is the original one.
Anyone have a link to the DDSL re-draw / results?
orchardexile
17/02/2014, 12:33 AM
The SFAI website shows the Original DDSL draw.
The link for the DDSL re-draw is on DDSL website link below: Look for the Item titled "S.F.A.I Cup Draw D.D.S.L Region"
http://www.ddsl.ie/index.php?limitstart=25
Regarding results check the DDSL site for updated results - they have a couple of updates on their website for U12s, U13s and U15s SFAI Cup to date
Ezeikial
19/02/2014, 5:51 PM
Thanks for that link ore orchardexile.
I must admit I am bamboozled by the fact that the revised draw is still not up on the SFAI website, although DDSL clubs are now starting to appear in the last 32 draw on the site
Does anyone know how the clubs emerging from the ddsl draw are integrated into the four places allocated within the last 32? For example in the U16 section ddsl teams were allocated slots 11, 12, 13 and 14. In the recent days St Kevins have appeared in slot number 11. My query is why or how they are team number 11 instead of 12, 13 or 14.
Was this done as part of the ddsl re-draw or part of the SFAI re-draw or in some other way?
It is strange that this was not / is not clear and transparent from the website!
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