Sean Maguire F Carlisle United b.1994

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Maguire may see some action this afternoon, against Nottingham Forest, as he is on the bench.

[tetsujin1979]

probably could have picked a better game to make his first appearance in a matchday squad

[tetsujin1979]

on loan at Sligo until the end of July: http://www.sligorovers.com/news/14/feb/maguire-joins-loan-west-ham

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

How is this lad getting on in Sligo?

[Charlie Darwin]

He's playing every game but he can't buy a goal. Looks like he has a good bit of physical development to do to play with men.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Debut goal for Maguire at Accrington.

[Charlie Darwin]

Looking forward to it on the Football League Show now - sounds like a madcap game. Presumably John Coleman hasn't had time to suck the life out of his new/old side yet.

[tetsujin1979]

Maguire extending his loan at Accrington Stanley for another month: http://www.accringtonstanley.co.uk/2014/12/maguire-extends-stay/

[Crosby87]

Sounds like the name of a bank. Hi, I'm The One Who Knocks and I bank at Accrington Stanley.

[tetsujin1979]

and another month at Accrington Stanley for Maguire: http://accringtonstanley.co.uk/2015/01/maguire-makes-reds-return/

[tetsujin1979]

and now until the end of the season: http://accringtonstanley.co.uk/2015/02/maguire-loan-extended/

[Olé Olé]

It seems his contract with West Ham is up at the end of the season. Hard to see them keeping him on when he'll be 21 and showed little in the line of a goalscoring record on his two loans at levels a distance lower than the PL. He's playing for his next contract between now and the end of the season.

[Charlie Darwin]

No way he'll stay at West Ham. If he can get a contract at League Two level, he'd be doing well.

[Crosby87]

If they let him come to the games as a fan, he'd be doing well.

[sulywaterfordfc]

Seani's been drafted into the U21 squad for the qualifier in Waterford tonight.

[tetsujin1979]

Maguire on trial with Wycombe Wanderers: http://www.getbucks.co.uk/sport/football/news/former-west-ham-united-youngster-9690981

[DeLorean]

Call him up MON - http://www.punditarena.com/football/sokeefe/sean-maguire-ireland-striker/

[Olé Olé]

It's adding salt to the wounds that Horgan and Boyle have been made internationals so quickly after leaving league. Okay, they had the Europa league under their belts but it took until he got a handful of matches at Preston for Boyle to get a run.

I'm not an LOI super fan as I didn't really live much of my life near or supporting a particular club but I'd follow with interest. I'm not trying to point the finger like a disgruntled LOI fan might but an aging Kevin Doyle who hasn't shot the lights out in the MLS could be moved aside for friendlies for at least a few minutes to let Maguire have a crack.

[backstothewall]

I think Doyle had worked up enough credit over the years to be given a chance against Iceland to show if he still had it. But he got his chance and sadly the answer was there for all to see.

Horgan has demonstrated that the very best players in the LOI can make the step up, and on that basis I'd give Maguire a go against Uruguay.

[DeLorean]

Yeah, nothing at all against Doyle. I was happy for him to get a game and felt bad for him when he was left out of the Euro squad. His reaction was top class also at the time. Maguire is completely worth a shot though.

[nigel-harps1954]

The issue with Maguire playing against Uruguay is that Cork will be playing Dundalk the same weekend. They won't want to be losing their main man for such a fixture and O'Neill would use it as an excuse as well. I think it's abundantly clear that he won't be given his chance.

[SkStu]

I think he needs to continue to prove himself to be far too good for our league for anyone to feel that MON is doing the wrong thing. His success in England was limited although he was very young and did score goals at a somewhat decent level. If he can stay on fire between now and the next friendly, then the case for MON to call him up becomes stronger - irrespective of Cork's schedule.

[Olé Olé]

I think he needs to continue to prove himself to be far too good for our league for anyone to feel that MON is doing the wrong thing. His success in England was limited although he was very young and did score goals at a somewhat decent level. If he can stay on fire between now and the next friendly, then the case for MON to call him up becomes stronger - irrespective of Cork's schedule.

Agreed. 7 goals wasn't bad for a 20 year old at Accrington Stanley. Wasn't he unlucky with injuries too and I think he had a serious drought at the start there which was a carry-on from a drought at Sligo. Confidence was his issue at Sligo, if I remember correctly. I can remember a poster saying he looked quality but couldn't buy a goal.

His drought is referenced here at Accrington:
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/11875499.display/

Confidence player he might be. And the confidence is brimming. He looked quality setting up Sheppard's first on Saturday. It's a real pity he's not given a crack. I don't think Caulfield could refuse him the Ireland cap either!

[DannyInvincible]

I'd find it difficult to envisage any manager releasing his best player for a friendly international if it'd mean said player missing what may potentially be a title-decider.

Even if it would be an opportunity for the player to make his international debut, there'd simply be too much to lose at stake for the manager. He'd never be forgiven if a decision he wasn't compelled to make cost his club the league.

[Olé Olé]

I'd find it difficult to envisage any manager releasing his best player for a friendly international if it'd mean said player missing what may potentially be a title-decider.

Even if it would be an opportunity for the player to make his international debut, there'd simply be too much to lose at stake for the manager. He'd never be forgiven if a decision he wasn't compelled to make cost his club the league.

June would be a very early point in the season and a very early point at which to disgruntle your prizes asset and scorer, were he to be made aware of contact.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Doyle showed more in the 20 mins before he was injured against Slovakia (?) than Murphy did pre Euros. A year in has he deteriorated or was he just feeding off scraps? I think more the latter, but it's hard to know.

With regard to Maguire and the timing of the next game, it should be pretty simple for O'Neill to tell the FAI soon if he'd be interested in picking him on merit and then the FAI can give both clubs time to rearrange the fixture. I think it'd be terrible if a league match was used as an excuse not to pick a domestic player. The FAI is totally in control of this situation as of now.

[mark12345]

I thought Doyle showed more in the 20 mins before he was injured against Slovakia (?) than Murphy did pre Euros. A year in has he deteriorated or was he just feeding off scraps? I think more the latter, but it's hard to know.

With theatre to Maguire and the timing of the next game, it should be pretty simple for O'Neill to tell the FAI soon if he'd be interested in picking him on merit and then the FAI can give both clubs time to rearrange the fixture. I think it'd be terrible if a league match was used as an excuse not to pick a domestic player. The FAI is totally in control of this situation as of now.

Agree with all of this. The league should and will have plenty of time to cancel the Cork/Dundalk game if MON so desires to pick Maguire. And at this stage I say why not? Let's look at Maguire. Let's look at Paddy Madden and McAlaney. Heck, with such a dearth of Irish strikers out there why not go down as far as Glen McCauley at this stage.

[SkStu]

Just got the opener for Cork tonight.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Kerrnel of Truth.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/i-thought-bhutan-was-a-gas-brian-kerr-on-friendlies-his-respect-for-journalists-and-gulf-between-loi-and-international-level-35582750.html

Kerr preaches caution as it pertains to LOI call-ups.

[DeLorean]

Eamonn Sweeney on Seán Maguire the other day
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/eamonn-sweeney-dont-miss-maguire-in-action-and-the-chance-to-say-you-saw-him-before-he-was-famous-35585508.html

Linked with Preston & Charlton today
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170405/9978b6b747baa162e1ca6cc2d994b5ae.jpg

[micls]

Kerrnel of Truth.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/i-thought-bhutan-was-a-gas-brian-kerr-on-friendlies-his-respect-for-journalists-and-gulf-between-loi-and-international-level-35582750.html

Kerr preaches caution as it pertains to LOI call-ups.

Of course there's a difference in quality, but Horgan and Doyle didn't get significantly better in a space of a few months. There are players in the league capable of breaching the gap in quality. Similar to those in lower leagues in England who get a chance here and there. No one is saying to start calling up heaps of LOI players, but there's no Ryanair plane magic that makes players better once they reach England.

[seanfhear]

Of course there's a difference in quality, but Horgan and Doyle didn't get significantly better in a space of a few months. There are players in the league capable of breaching the gap in quality. Similar to those in lower leagues in England who get a chance here and there. No one is saying to start calling up heaps of LOI players, but there's no Ryanair plane magic that makes players better once they reach England.I kinda used to feel dirty after flying with Ryanair . I haven't used them for ages and I now feel a more wholesome individual....Still not international standard footballer admittedly.......

[DannyInvincible]

Out of interest, what's Maguire's background and where was he raised? His Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Maguire_(footballer)) says he was born in Luton, although I'm guessing he grew up in Ireland, judging by his accent. However, in the video below (at 0m30s), he also speaks of family having come over from England to watch him play in last season's FAI Cup final:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIWp9zGaU0g

[Charlie Darwin]

Out of interest, what's Maguire's background and where was he raised? His Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Maguire_(footballer)) says he was born in Luton, although I'm guessing he grew up in Ireland, judging by his accent. However, in the video below (at 0m30s), he also speaks of family having come over from England to watch him play in last season's FAI Cup final:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIWp9zGaU0g
He was born in Luton and grew up in Kilkenny. Not sure whether his parents were emigrants or if they're English.

[osarusan]

Of course there's a difference in quality, but Horgan and Doyle didn't get significantly better in a space of a few months. There are players in the league capable of breaching the gap in quality. Similar to those in lower leagues in England who get a chance here and there. No one is saying to start calling up heaps of LOI players, but there's no Ryanair plane magic that makes players better once they reach England.
Until they get to a better league though, it's hard to tell just how good they actually are.

I think that in general, the level of players Maguire is proving himself better than is just not high enough in LOI.

[micls]

Until they get to a better league though, it's hard to tell just how good they actually are.

I think that in general, the level of players Maguire is proving himself better than is just not high enough in LOI.

I don't argue that point in theory, but we've literally had players get a call up when they touch down in England, long before they've ever proven themselves in a better league. Then we also have players like Doyle getting a call up when we know he's past it at that level and he offers little in terms of looking to the future.

I'm by no means claiming Seani is the solution to Ireland's striker needs and will succeed internationally, but I don't see any reason he doesn't deserve a shot in a friendly, in comparison to others we're calling up for the same.

[DeLorean]

Yeah, I just see this as a bit of an exceptional circumstance. We badly need a striker and we've got a standout one at LOI level. It doesn't mean every player who reaches Maguire's level has earned the right to be called up, but needs must. I didn't see the point in calling up Boyle and Horgan ahead of him when they were still at Dundalk either to be honest. Nothing against those two at all but they play in positions where we're well stocked. In that sense I think they were token call ups on the back of what Dundalk had done in Europe, but Maguire would have been a far more pragmatic addition.

[osarusan]

I don't argue that point in theory, but we've literally had players get a call up when they touch down in England, long before they've ever proven themselves in a better league.
It doesn't really affect what I said, but it's very true and very annoying, just a ROI manager applying the same lazy thought process to a club manager's decision ("if they fancy him enough to sign him we should take a look at him too").

Anyway, I've no problem with him being called up at all. In a way, his presence in LOI makes him something of an unknown quantity in comparison to others we know the level of.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't argue that point in theory, but we've literally had players get a call up when they touch down in England, long before they've ever proven themselves in a better league. Then we also have players like Doyle getting a call up when we know he's past it at that level and he offers little in terms of looking to the future.

I'm by no means claiming Seani is the solution to Ireland's striker needs and will succeed internationally, but I don't see any reason he doesn't deserve a shot in a friendly, in comparison to others we're calling up for the same.I guess you're thinking of Brian Lenihan? Any / many others?

Doyle looked very good in last May's friendly before injury. I'd say he can play at least to the same level as Murphy right now. He had no service against Iceland, we were woeful. Of course he's not the future but I think he was worth a call up for Wales.

I agree with regard to Maguire, your last sentence, 100%.

[paul_oshea]

I saw a lot of the Dundalk players last year from watching the Europa games, and most of them particularly McEleney and Horgan stood out. I find it more difficult to judge LOI defenders that dont make the blunders compared to midfielders/wingers/forwards. Shiels looked good as did O'Donnell but was just lacking pace for the top level. Horgan and McEleney generally stood out, as did Massey and Gannon against any opposition they played against. I think you can judge players when they play against a certain level opposition without them playing consistently in a better league.

I watched Maguire in 2 or 3 matches last year, and particularly against Genk he was very ordinary. He didn't stand out in the same way the above players did. I think he would be found out playing for Ireland and wouldn't rise to the occassion.

[SkStu]

I saw a lot of the Dundalk players last year from watching the Europa games, and most of them particularly McEleney and Horgan stood out. I find it more difficult to judge LOI defenders that dont make the blunders compared to midfielders/wingers/forwards. Shiels looked good as did O'Donnell but was just lacking pace for the top level. Horgan and McEleney generally stood out, as did Massey and Gannon against any opposition they played against. I think you can judge players when they play against a certain level opposition without them playing consistently in a better league.

I watched Maguire in 2 or 3 matches last year, and particularly against Genk he was very ordinary. He didn't stand out in the same way the above players did. I think he would be found out playing for Ireland and wouldn't rise to the occassion.

to counter that, Glen Crowe did not look at all out of place in his appearance v. Greece while he was still in the league and he was on a similar run of form to that currently being experienced by Maguire, with the added piece that Maguire offers far more in terms of mobility and has youth on his side (which wasn't the case with Crowe).

Related to your last sentence, you can speculate all you like but you don't know until you try. Somewhat related, we need to be giving our exceptional domestic players a) a chance and b) realize the positive effect that this will have on the domestic game and the club should that player then draw interest from clubs across the water. We should look at Coleman to Everton for 60k and all agree that we should do everything to prevent those sort of deals from happening. This sort of positive/active promotion of our exceptional domestic players would help a little in that regard.

[BonnieShels]

Everyone looked out of place that night. Still one of the worst Irish matches I have ever had the displeasure to witness. Gack!

[DannyInvincible]

It doesn't really affect what I said, but it's very true and very annoying, just a ROI manager applying the same lazy thought process to a club manager's decision ("if they fancy him enough to sign him we should take a look at him too").

I think it's a lack-of-courage/initiative thing as well. Martin O'Neill is quite cautious by nature, but, generally-speaking, if an Ireland manager decides to call up a League of Ireland player and the player is subsequently exposed as being way out of his depth on the international stage, the international manager may feel more vulnerable to criticism if he has gone out on a limb and taken the punt on the player all by himself.

On the other hand, if a League of Ireland player has just moved to England after an English-based manager has, for all to see, evidently placed faith in that player's ability and an Irish international manager then calls said player up, the international manager can sort of share culpability or the potential embarrassment if it doesn't work out. The international manager might feel he'll look less foolish in the eyes of his association, critics/pundits and supporters that way.

When it happens - a player getting called up as soon as he's off the plane in England - it's obviously great news for the player concerned, but it's also rather galling/frustrating that the international manager was perhaps just lazy or felt too fearful of trusting his own judgment and had to use a second manager's judgment/approval of the player as a sort of crutch or safety net.

[paul_oshea]

I doubt Martin Oneill is too worried what the media or others think. Id be pretty sure he is confident enough in himself to make whatever calls he feels are necessary and justified.

At this time I doubt he feels Maguire is ready and/or good enough.

[topia]

This talk about the international manager being too worried to risk what others think is ridiculous. Surely he can call him up to his next squad of 55.... and watch him in training. Virtually nothing to lose. If he can't make his mind up if he is good enough after watching him in training then he shouldn't be in the job.

[DannyInvincible]

I doubt Martin Oneill is too worried what the media or others think. Id be pretty sure he is confident enough in himself to make whatever calls he feels are necessary and justified.

At this time I doubt he feels Maguire is ready and/or good enough.

O'Neill had the perfect opportunity to introduce a red-hot Daryl Horgan (who was still at Dundalk at the time and who had been seriously impressing against top-class European opposition during weeks prior) in the 85th minute away to Austria when McClean signalled that he was having a fitness issue, but he instead chose to bring on McGeady (who, only recently before that, had returned from injury, if I remember correctly, and who had been out-of-form for about two years at the time anyway with his career seemingly on an abrupt downward spiral).

[DannyInvincible]

This talk about the international manager being too worried to risk what others think is ridiculous. Surely he can call him up to his next squad of 55.... and watch him in training. Virtually nothing to lose. If he can't make his mind up if he is good enough after watching him in training then he shouldn't be in the job.

Maybe so, although international managers have damageable egos too. And, whatever about pundits and fans, an international manager still ought to at least care about what the association, upon whom his job and livelihood depend, think of his performance and choices.

My theory about internationals managers possibly being fearful of taking a risk when other perceived "safer" options are available is actually somewhat based upon something I read in relation to the apparent reluctance of English clubs to employ black managers (on page 112 of Soccernomics [PDF] in the chapter on racial discrimination (xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/23525044/1262928679/name/Socceronomics.pdf)):


The issue hit Britain only when the first generation of black players began to retire (its being an article of faith in soccer that only ex-players have what it takes to become managers). The former England international Luther Blissett, who as a player had made that ill-fated transfer to Milan, applied for twenty-two jobs as a manager in the 1990s. He did not get a single interview. Stella Orakwue, who recounts his story in her 1998 book, Pitch Invaders, concludes, “I feel a British black managing a Premiership team could be a very long way off.” Indeed, only in 2008, ten years after she wrote this, did Blackburn give Paul Ince a chance for a few months. Even after Ince’s appointment, John Barnes, who himself had struggled to get work as a manager in Britain, said, “I believe the situation for black managers is like it was for black players back in the 1970s.” True, black managers Ruud Gullit and Jean Tigana did get jobs in the Premier League. But as Orakwue points out, the crucial point is that they were foreigners. They were perceived in Britain first of all as Dutch or French, and only secondarily as black. Gullit was cast as a typical sophisticated Dutch manager, not as an untried “black” one.

...

Because it is so hard to measure a manager’s performance, it will never become painfully obvious that clubs are undervaluing black managers. That means clubs can continue to choose their managers on the basis of appearances. Any club appointing someone who is not a white male ex-player with a conservative haircut must worry about looking foolish if its choice fails. Hiring a black manager feels risky, because as Barnes says, “Black guys haven’t proved themselves as managers.” White guys have—or at least some of them appear to have.

Obviously, League of Ireland players aren't suffering racial prejudice, but their ability is seemingly doubted until a manager from England decides (perhaps reassuringly for the international manager in charge) to put faith in their ability too. Only then, do the players seem to get recognition. In the case of Brian Lenihan who moved from Cork to Hull, he received a surprise call-up as soon as he stepped off the plane in England.

Daryl Horgan and Andy Boyle were notable exceptions last season in being called into a final 23/28-man squad whilst still at Dundalk*, but, even then, as I pointed out above (http://foot.ie/threads/186367-Sean-Maguire?p=1915321&viewfull=1#post1915321), O'Neill had an ideal opportunity to go one step further and hand the ridiculously-in-form Horgan his debut against Austria, but declined to do so. Horgan would have been the first League of Ireland player to feature in a competitive international for Ireland since Shamrock Rovers' Pat Byrne lined out against Denmark in 1985.

*I acknowledge Dundalk goalkeeper Gary Rogers also made squads to play Oman and Serbia last year, but he'd already been in and around the set-up for a while as a convenient training keeper (despite being error-prone and nowhere near the best keeper in the League of Ireland), we were very stretched in the back-up goalkeeping department and the position is a bit of an anomaly anyway.

[DeLorean]

I think McGeady was a better option to bring on in Vienna so I wouldn't agree that it was lack of courage or anything like that. Winning 1-0 he probably just wanted somebody who's calm in possession as Hoolahan had already gone off at that stage as well.

It was a pretty bold move by O'Neill to bring O'Dowda on in Moldova at 1-1 I felt, a player who had really only played in League 2, bar a handful of games at Bristol City at the time.

[Olé Olé]

I think McGeady was a better option to bring on in Vienna so I wouldn't agree that it was lack of courage or anything like that. Winning 1-0 he probably just wanted somebody who's calm in possession as Hoolahan had already gone off at that stage as well.

It was a pretty bold move by O'Neill to bring O'Dowda on in Moldova at 1-1 I felt, a player who had really only played in League 2, bar a handful of games at Bristol City at the time.

Even though I like the look of O'Dowda and think he will prove to be a good player for us in the future, he is incredibly lucky that the game against Belarus in Turner's Cross was so dour that he was the only talking point from the match. The buzz and chat about him being a bolter for the Euro squad demonstrated that.

MON is definitely a fan and that match was the makings of him I think. Not many others have been as lucky. That friendly was quite trivial in the scheme of things and O'Dowda benefitted from that. It was so trivial that Hendrick was utterly abysmal but went into be one of our best two or three players at the Euros.

[DannyInvincible]

It was a pretty bold move by O'Neill to bring O'Dowda on in Moldova at 1-1 I felt, a player who had really only played in League 2, bar a handful of games at Bristol City at the time.

Fair point - it was a bold move by O'Neill - although, as Óle Óle points out, O'Dowda had already been tried and tested in the friendly against Belarus.