Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Wednesday, 5th March 2014 - Friendly

[DeLorean]

Robbie Keane lacks pace and has always been urine poor at one-on-ones against the goalkeeper. Remember his miss against France in Paris? At least Shane Long got a shot off. Seriously, every time Robbie Keane doesn't play we assign him mythical qualities.

I agree with that to be fair. I always though Robbie was more clinical working off instinct, than when he had time. The idea that chances like Long's falling to Robbie is as good as a goal is far fetched, and nearly everybody on Sky & RTÉ last night would have you believe.

[Stuttgart88]

So even his goals are rubbish now. We give our players so much stick and take down their confidence. We're becoming like the English media.

Nonsense. I just thought it was an unconvincing finish that the keeper will have been disappointed to have let in.

Others said it was class. I disagreed. Long doesn't fill me with confidence in front of goal but he's a menace to opposition defenders. That's a conundrum that needs solving. Long's confidence isn't low because some internet fan like me objectively criticises his finishing, it's because he knows full well he fluffed big chances last night.

[DeLorean]

Think he took the goal well. It was an very awkward chance, one that's easy to pull well wide or fire straight at the keeper. He aimed it gently towards the middle knowing that his body shape and positioning would angle it away from the keeper. Don't think he could have done any more with it but it was a bit unusual looking.

[Stuttgart88]

I think the message from all the posts above is that regardless of who we play upfront we need to create lots of decent half-chances rather than a few clear cut ones :)

It'd be nice if MON can make us look like a real threat from set pieces again. We may need to rely on them.

[Yard of Pace]

Apart from Romario and a few others, you often see strikers make a meal of one on ones. Like they're used to feeding off scraps and suddenly they have a whole banquet in front of them. There was a ball played across in the first half which was cut out which I'm sure Long would have tucked away. Anyway, there was a lot of talk in the media about last night being his big night. He fluffed his lines a couple of times. Let him do that now and put it behind him once the qualifiers start. And keep knocking them in for Hull.

Agree with Stutts on set-pieces. Can't remember a decent one last night apart from Wilson's header which was a harder one than Houghton made out.


And on credibility:

Does long lack confidence one on one?keane would have a far better understanding with hooligan and finish.

Wes is from the north inner city but I think that's a bit much. And also doesn't make sense. :)

[Charlie Darwin]

Agree with Stutts on set-pieces. Can't remember a decent one last night apart from Wilson's header which was a harder one than Houghton made out.

Meyler had a free header from a corner shortly after he came on too. It was a better chance than Wilson's I think.

[Crosby87]

This whole thread is a bit of a curates egg.

[paul_oshea]

Our best technical players - McGeady, McCarthy, Coleman, Hoolahan - came through outside of the English system. It's a gigantic leap to assume the LOI is the problem when the evidence suggests the English system is more to blame.

McCarthy and McGeady didnt come from the LOI its not necessarily through the English system I meant, just that those coming out of the LOI lack that technical ability.

[paul_oshea]

Robbie Keane lacks pace and has always been urine poor at one-on-ones against the goalkeeper. Remember his miss against France in Paris? At least Shane Long got a shot off. Seriously, every time Robbie Keane doesn't play we assign him mythical qualities.
I agree with that to be fair. I always though Robbie was more clinical working off instinct, than when he had time. The idea that chances like Long's falling to Robbie is as good as a goal is far fetched, and nearly everybody on Sky & RTÉ last night would have you believe.

Macedonia away, for every one i will counter, he intercepted and a lovely finish past the keeper. It was duff who had a worse miss in Paris one-on-one!

[Charlie Darwin]

McCarthy and McGeady didnt come from the LOI its not necessarily through the English system I meant, just that those coming out of the LOI lack that technical ability.
You said our players would surely be better off testing themselves "against the best" across the water. I assume you don't consider playing in the Scottish Second Division to be "the best" and yet it produced McCarthy. The idea that players are better off in cattle market academies in England is ridiculous.

[DeLorean]

Macedonia away, for every one i will counter, he intercepted and a lovely finish past the keeper. It was duff who had a worse miss in Paris one-on-one!

It was somebody else that mentioned the Paris miss. Yeah, I'm not saying Robbie has never scored a one on one, just saying he's missed plenty but you wouldn't think it listening to Ronnie Whelan & co. last night. God I hate Ronnie Whelan. Ray is annoying too but likable behind it all.

[Stuttgart88]

Pedantic point, but I think that the LOI is an unfair scapegoat. It reflects the lack of joined-upness of the whole structure and does as well as it can despite this.

Long: remember his brilliant backheel against Austria and header at Wembley? Scorer of great goals perhaps, but not a great goalscorer. OK, Austria hit the post but still...

Does anyone remember Cascarino's autobiography where he'd describe the voices in his head if ever given time to think about a goal chance? If anyone is the man to get Long's head right it's O'Neill. Many say O'Neill's best asset is his motivational ability. I still believe Long can become the man but he needs a few breaks. Look at his recent game against Villa - one great goal led to another. Last night could have been a career changer but instead he'll have those voices in his head next time he gets that kind of chance.

Meyler's miss was awful I thought. That had nothing to do with LOI or the English system. Goals like that are scored in the LOI and junior leagues all week. I played with a centre-back in Div 3C of the LSL who scored them regularly. A tall international CM should be able to.

Robbie: he exuded calm in several one on ones since Paris, mainly against weaker opposition. I think it is completely fair to think he'd have done much better than Long in those instances. That was the key message of the Georgia and Faroes games last year. I'd bet that Robbie believes in himself all the time in these situations. Even though the evidence is mainly against weak opposition (so by assumption waeker keepers) he is happy to draw the keeper and play a tidy chip. This isn't a strength that Long has.

[DannyInvincible]

Wes is from the north inner city but I think that's a bit much. And also doesn't make sense. :)

Funnily enough, an old Irish teacher of mine once told us that, like the term 'scally', the origin of the term 'hooligan' to desribe a rowdy ruffian is to be found in the Irish family name, Hooligan, or Hoolahan even. That's probably self-evident, but I believe the terms were originally used to refer derogatively to members of Irish communities in cities like Liverpool and gradually caught on throughout the wider UK to refer to those perceived to be engaging in anti-social behaviour generally.


McCarthy and McGeady didnt come from the LOI its not necessarily through the English system I meant, just that those coming out of the LOI lack that technical ability.

As opposed to who? The former-LOI group in the senior squad are still better players than many other Irish players who've not come through the LOI. The reason we cannot rely on stronger players isn't really the fault of the LOI. The league can only do its best given its circumstances. It's a credit to it that so many former players are regularly selected in our senior squads.

[geysir]

McCarthy and McGeady didnt come from the LOI its not necessarily through the English system I meant, just that those coming out of the LOI lack that technical ability.
Being involved with the English leagues are not the panacea for our technical woes.
Most all of our underage players (from u17 up) used in competitive games, are with English clubs. In contrast, on the continent, most all such players are still with home based league structure. Even the u21 squads from Norway Sweden Denmark, are mostly stocked with home based players.

[Junior]

Anyone got a link to highlights of last nights game?

[SwanVsDalton]

What does Walters offer apart from work rate? He does not hold the ball up well enough. He doesn't score goals. He doesn't have the pace or crossing ability to play on the wing. Counter attacks are pointless because of his lack of pace or vision (as seen by his reaction to the excellent knock on by Murphy), his link-up play is average... I just don't get it.

I like Walters. Not a spectacular player, but I think he's the most intelligent striker of a physical ilk we have. Runs good lines in behind, stretches defences, opens up space for others and is a total work house. He's stronger and better at holding the ball up than any of our other striking options IMO.

I don't think he's the best goalscorer but he's grabbed four in 22 apps and appears more of a threat than others when on the field. I don't think Murphy brings the above, and less besides. For instance, they're as slow as each other. Just my view of course.


I remember Folan too being quite useless but himself and Walters seem to be largely free of any criticism but it's open season on people like Sammon and Murphy for some reason. It's cynical.

I don't think so. I just think Walters is cut above the others. There's no point lumping all these guys in together. Walters has a quality to him which I don't think the others possess, at this moment. I'd criticism him all day for a bad performance, and he is limited, but I think he'd done fairly well in his relatively thankless stint in a green shirt.


SVD how did you read from towks posts that he wanted murphy?similar to your analysis that's not what he was saying at all...he just really wanted stokes!

TOWK has been banging the Murphy drum for some time, over numerous posts. He also took Murphy's solitary contribution (a flick-on) and used it as a stick to beat Walters. Which is fine, but it's spin.

[brine3]

If Messi had scored the goal like Long did then we'd all be going on about what a genius Messi is and how he wrong-footed the keeper.

[brine3]

Macedonia away, for every one i will counter, he intercepted and a lovely finish past the keeper. It was duff who had a worse miss in Paris one-on-one!

True, Duff's one actually counts as a miss, seeing as he shot the ball at the keeper. Keane just let the ball run out of play.

[SwanVsDalton]

If Messi had scored the goal like Long did then we'd all be going on about what a genius Messi is and how he wrong-footed the keeper.

Messi has nothing to prove and Long does. If Shane wants us to to shut up, he could start putting away sitters. We're a struggling nation, we need a promising forward to turn into a goalscorer and we need it now.

People can split the different on Robbie's goals and one-on-one's but, honestly, I just want a Premier League striker to score when he's clean through on goal. Twice. It's not too much to ask.

[tetsujin1979]

Anyone got a link to highlights of last nights game?
on rte player here: http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10259899/

[backstothewall]

Backstothewall how can you be positive about something when its not current you can only be positive about what you see in the now regardless of who has to come back and that was very poor!!

A welsh colleague said to me if wales can keep all 11 fit and available throughout the campaign then they have a chance I say the same about us.

Previous managers have always been lucky in having at least 2 or 3 really good players. I can't think of anyone bar Coleman and he was poor today for mon and keane.

I think I can see what o'neill is thinking. Good partnerships are emerging around the field. We created 4 great chances against a very good team. It's early days.

[paul_oshea]

Does anyone remember Cascarino's autobiography where he'd describe the voices in his head if ever given time to think about a goal chance? If anyone is the man to get Long's head right it's O'Neill. Many say O'Neill's best asset is his motivational ability. I still believe Long can become the man but he needs a few breaks. Look at his recent game against Villa - one great goal led to another. Last night could have been a career changer but instead he'll have those voices in his head next time he gets that kind of chance.

Meyler's miss was awful I thought. That had nothing to do with LOI or the English system. Goals like that are scored in the LOI and junior leagues all week. I played with a centre-back in Div 3C of the LSL who scored them regularly. A tall international CM should be able to.


Inner gimp i think its called isn't it? In golf Bernhard Langer was the first to bring up the Yips, I dont think this is Longs thing i just think he overthinks it and hasnt the practice/experience of saying rihgt im going to go here always or go to this corner, he just isn't sure. I agree with you and whoever else said that delorean sees it differently but Long just didnt seem comfortable never does in those where he gets too much time to think. I also think the first goal was more out of luck than class and precision.

Its not about meyelr being able head the ball or taking his chances, there is definitely a correlation between the increase in the number of LOI players and the decrease in our quality. Maybe because we don't have the same coming through we now need to rely on these whereas in the past we havent. Its not about individuals either, its the collective.

Thanks for explaining DI, thats exactly what i meant :P

[DeLorean]

Give Shane a break lads.

Enter... Benteke...

http://balls.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/bentekemiss.gif

[jbyrne]

True, Duff's one actually counts as a miss, seeing as he shot the ball at the keeper. Keane just let the ball run out of play.

yes, he simply "let" the ball go out of play!!

in that move keane took the ball brilliantly in his stride without having to check his run. he then had the option to shoot early (risky) or go around the keeper and roll the ball into an empty net. he opted for the latter and took it a little too far. sky commentary at the time said he should have shot early but its easy from a tv studio and an armchair

[Junior]

on rte player here: http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10259899/

No good to me without an irish proxy blah blah blah......

[the doc]

In MON we trust until the first time he doesnt select Sledge as a parter to o'shea/dunne/wilson!!

Anyone think O'neill could move o'shea out to the left to accommodate wilson and dunne in the middle or play wilson and o'shea together in the middle and not necessarily accommodate Dunne? I think he wants a ball playing CB and hence his persistence with playing Wilson in the CB role. I definitely think its the death knell for Sledge there.

I wouldn't be saying in MON we trust if I wasn't certain SSL was in his plans.

Do I have to spell it out? Read between the lines!!!!!!!!

Irelands best CBs are SSL, Dunne and JOSh.

The rest can do a job now and then but not at the level of those three who are proven.

As for Wilson being a CB don't be silly!

I know my footie!

[Charlie Darwin]

Its not about meyelr being able head the ball or taking his chances, there is definitely a correlation between the increase in the number of LOI players and the decrease in our quality. Maybe because we don't have the same coming through we now need to rely on these whereas in the past we havent. Its not about individuals either, its the collective.
Then explain why we're better than we were six years ago. And how much of, say, Damien Duff's superior technical ability do you attribute to his upbringing and how much to the tutelage of notorious total football aficionado Ray Harford?

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't be saying in MON we trust if I wasn't certain SSL was in his plans.

Do I have to spell it out? Read between the lines!!!!!!!!

Irelands best CBs are SSL, Dunne and JOSh.

The rest can do a job now and then but not at the level of those three who are proven.

As for Wilson being a CB don't be silly!

I know my footie!
The doc doth protest too much methinks.

[geysir]

No good to me without an irish proxy blah blah blah......
The whole game is up on sharingirish torrents,
i.e. for real fans who care enough:rolleyes:

[Charlie Darwin]

The whole game is up on sharingirish torrents,
i.e. for real fans who care enough:rolleyes:
Nonsense. The real fans are all still in their seats at Lansdowne Road, passionately debating the finer points of Keogh's positional awareness and McCarthy's stomach for the midfield battle with the diehards from YBIG. You wouldn't find any of them around here or downloading torrents.

[Stuttgart88]

Inner gimp i think its called isn't it? In golf Bernhard Langer was the first to bring up the Yips, I dont think this is Longs thing i just think he overthinks it and hasnt the practice/experience of saying rihgt im going to go here always or go to this corner, he just isn't sure. I agree with you and whoever else said that delorean sees it differently but Long just didnt seem comfortable never does in those where he gets too much time to think. I also think the first goal was more out of luck than class and precision.

Its not about meyelr being able head the ball or taking his chances, there is definitely a correlation between the increase in the number of LOI players and the decrease in our quality. Maybe because we don't have the same coming through we now need to rely on these whereas in the past we havent. Its not about individuals either, its the collective.

Thanks for explaining DI, thats exactly what i meant :P
I hadn't heard of the inner gimp. I like it.

[peadar1987]

Inner gimp i think its called isn't it? In golf Bernhard Langer was the first to bring up the Yips, I dont think this is Longs thing i just think he overthinks it and hasnt the practice/experience of saying rihgt im going to go here always or go to this corner, he just isn't sure. I agree with you and whoever else said that delorean sees it differently but Long just didnt seem comfortable never does in those where he gets too much time to think. I also think the first goal was more out of luck than class and precision.

Its not about meyelr being able head the ball or taking his chances, there is definitely a correlation between the increase in the number of LOI players and the decrease in our quality. Maybe because we don't have the same coming through we now need to rely on these whereas in the past we havent. Its not about individuals either, its the collective.

Thanks for explaining DI, thats exactly what i meant :P


Correlation does not imply causation. As you can see from this graph:

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Screen-shot-2013-02-27-at-11.25.24.png

Sharp dips in the early 90s, corresponding to the Jack era, and another dip in 2002, corresponding to qualification for Japan/Korea. Another dip in 2009 when we came so close in Paris. Clearly, Ireland's World Cup performances strongly correlate with UK corporation tax revenue.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I like Walters. Not a spectacular player, but I think he's the most intelligent striker of a physical ilk we have. Runs good lines in behind, stretches defences, opens up space for others and is a total work house. He's stronger and better at holding the ball up than any of our other striking options IMO.

I don't think he's the best goalscorer but he's grabbed four in 22 apps and appears more of a threat than others when on the field. I don't think Murphy brings the above, and less besides. For instance, they're as slow as each other. Just my view of course.



I don't think so. I just think Walters is cut above the others. There's no point lumping all these guys in together. Walters has a quality to him which I don't think the others possess, at this moment. I'd criticism him all day for a bad performance, and he is limited, but I think he'd done fairly well in his relatively thankless stint in a green shirt.



TOWK has been banging the Murphy drum for some time, over numerous posts. He also took Murphy's solitary contribution (a flick-on) and used it as a stick to beat Walters. Which is fine, but it's spin.

First and foremost, I haven't been beating Murphy's drum at all, unless you call linking articles about him "beating his drum". It would actually be a professional footballer, Danny Higginbotham, Mick Mac and MON who were doing it - if anyone. Yes, Murphy does deserve credit for creating a goalscoring opportunity in his limited time on the pitch when substitutions had drained the life out of the game and Serbia dominated possession. It's a thankless task; and yes, Walters does deserve criticism for not possessing enough of a goalscoring threat or any kind of reaction.

I don't have a preference for either Walters or Murphy. Walters is playing regularly in the PL which is advantageous because only about a dozen or so Irish players are guaranteed starts every week.

Walters is a cart horse and he may serve a purpose in certain circumstances where we are under the cosh and/or defending a lead but he offers nothing from an attacking perspective. I keep hearing about these spaces he opens up? Give me one example. He does not belong on the wing because he has less pace, less crossing ability and less nous than other options. There are better options up front too as Walters frankly is poor in the air where Long, Doyle and even Murphy excel, his touch isn't up to snuff and his shooting speaks for itself.

He was bullied, barely won a single header and was completely neutralised against Kazakhstan - and most of our qualifying games for that matter. It was Long and Doyle who saved us in that game but people seem to judge Doyle solely on extenuating circumstances at Wolves and forget how good he has been for Ireland.

Another thing too. Walters was good against Austria in fairness but he was partly at fault for the Alaba goal. He shouldn't have been left on for 90 minutes, when he is flogged for 90 minutes, 38 games a season at Stoke, but in fairness, fault for that would lie with Trapattoni.

Long and Doyle up front is worth pursuing. They were fantastic against Oman. I know.

Not playing Stokes was a complete waste though. I agree O'Neill should have been more clever with his substitutions. Long should have been brought off for Stokes and Hoolahan kept on while we were still being gifted goalscoring opportunities.

We will never know what Stokes can or can't offer as long as he never starts and when he does, it's on the wing.

[Stuttgart88]

Long and Doyle is definitely worth considering. I still have faith in Doyle.

I wonder where our QPR players will be next year. They lost a staggering 65 million quid last financial year! QPR that is, not Dunne and Doyle. Even Keith Gillespie wouldn't manage that.

[Stuttgart88]

O'Neill said he took Hoolahan off to protect him from injury as he hadn't been getting much game time. There was no Brady or Reid to step in.

[geysir]

Long and Doyle is definitely worth considering. I still have faith in Doyle.

I wonder where our QPR players will be next year. They lost a staggering 65 million quid last financial year! QPR that is, not Dunne and Doyle. Even Keith Gillespie wouldn't manage that.
If Keith had that much, he certainly could manage to lose it.

[paul_oshea]

Correlation does not imply causation. As you can see from this graph:

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Screen-shot-2013-02-27-at-11.25.24.png

Sharp dips in the early 90s, corresponding to the Jack era, and another dip in 2002, corresponding to qualification for Japan/Korea. Another dip in 2009 when we came so close in Paris. Clearly, Ireland's World Cup performances strongly correlate with UK corporation tax revenue.

You know I can explain this. As contractors increase and the amount of work being conducted by contractors the national income declines as the taxing system doesn't know of the co-existnce of contractor corporation tax and contrationar income.

But I think you have it right ; )

EDIT:Whoops thats not what that graph is saying! I thought it was national income tax!

[paul_oshea]

Forde, Wilson, Dunne, Oshea, Coleman, whelan, McCarthy, Brady, Long/McClean, Hoolahan, keane.

That 11 is decent. But after that we fail miserably. Whats going to happen us after 2016? I think Long deserves a chance on the wing and run the channels, he isnt good enough to fox in the box or finish, but if he runs the channels he can get in behind and hooligan(yes) can pick him out, he then squares to robbie, and robbie gets a hat trick.

Seriously though i think long for mcclean is a good idea. Behind that we are very very light.

[OwlsFan]

.FFS why the reticence to play Stokes? .

May be he was at a meeting with his solicitor.

[shakermaker1982]

You guys do realise strikers miss
chances?!

It's not all doom & gloom. We had a second string CB pairing & Ward at LB. Put O'Shea, Dunne & St Ledger back in and the defence improves considerably.

Hoolahan was a real positive & I'm pleased the team tried to play some football. It's still early days for the team, in effect it's only MON's third pre-season game & he is still trying to shape the squad around his way of thinking.

Long is a menace & has been terrorizing PL defences this season. If we go 4-5-1 then he will start because of his pace. He obviously missed two chances last night but hopefully he learns from this. He had more time than he thought but if he scores 1 goal for every 3 chances I'd still take if.

McCarthy needs to start imposing himself on games more & once he does then we only need to find 1 more player in the middle of the park to have a very strong midfield 3 partnership. Whelan isn't the long term solution & I haven't saw enough of Meyler to make a judgement.

We have a solid 7 out 10 every game goalkeeper (wish Forde would work in his kicking though!), a solid defence, Robbie Keane & Shane Long. This should be
more than enough to edge out Scotland.

[Charlie Darwin]

Forde, Wilson, Dunne, Oshea, Coleman, whelan, McCarthy, Brady, Long/McClean, Hoolahan, keane.

That 11 is decent. But after that we fail miserably. Whats going to happen us after 2016? I think Long deserves a chance on the wing and run the channels, he isnt good enough to fox in the box or finish, but if he runs the channels he can get in behind and hooligan(yes) can pick him out, he then squares to robbie, and robbie gets a hat trick.

Seriously though i think long for mcclean is a good idea. Behind that we are very very light.
If you play Long out wide and Keane centre forward, then you have to deal with the problem of getting the ball to stick up front. Most teams who play one striker make it a strong guy who can hold up possession, whether they're playing on the deck or route one, like Ibra and Lewandowski. Teams like Barca and Man City (sometimes) are the exception, and I don't think we're in that class that we can play without a physically competitive striker.

[geysir]

Nonsense. The real fans are all still in their seats at Lansdowne Road, passionately debating the finer points of Keogh's positional awareness and McCarthy's stomach for the midfield battle with the diehards from YBIG. You wouldn't find any of them around here or downloading torrents.
Also amidst the showy flicking of stopwatches, measuring the speed of Forde's reflexes and the ever popular Wardy Watch ,
there was a more important factor to debate. There was a potential embarrassment factor in how was it to be explained that O'Neill was treading water already? After a hasty conference, it was agreed that the best way to explain this, was that the "Trap had all the luck" argument could be dug up and flogged one more time, brainy lot these folk.
But this time with the addendum, "Trap had all the luck as he had our best players available to him in their prime".
And O'Neill finding himself in this unenviable position, has to do with making the best out of a bad lot.

[Charlie Darwin]

Also amidst the showy flicking of stopwatches, measuring the speed of Forde's reflexes and the ever popular Wardy Watch ,
there was a more important factor to debate. There was a potential embarrassment factor in how was it to be explained that O'Neill was treading water already? After a hasty conference, it was agreed that the best way to explain this, was that the "Trap had all the luck" argument could be dug up and flogged one more time, brainy lot these folk.
But this time with the addendum, "Trap had all the luck as he had our best players available to him in their prime".
And O'Neill finding himself in this unenviable position, has to do with making the best out of a bad lot.
It will be interesting over the next few months to observe the mental gymnastics some have to indulge in once O'Neill's honeymoon period is over and he begins to leave out the causes celebré in favour of more reliable options. I'll give it about 12 months before they start hitting MON with charges of senility and Trap's era begins to be seen as something of a golden era. God forbid O'Neill takes us away from home and fails to get a result.

[Stuttgart88]

Shaker, do you think we're being harsh on Long? I don't.

Have we been harsh on Long for the x number of years quite a few of us have felt he leaves too many chances out there? It's a shame because otherwise he's a super player with a super attitude, and an even better accent.

I think a couple of things might still play into his hands though. If he is told he is the main man by MON he may feel less pressure, and if he gets one or two goals more might follow. I'd keep the faith because he's a cut above the others, bar Keane and Doyle.

I don't like the idea of him playing wide right. He did a good job once or twice before but other times looked laboured and ineffective.

[Crosby87]

The consensus of ex pat Irish here today seemed to be abject depression. They were talking about it in Butchers Block, the last Irish grocer in NYC.

[Charlie Darwin]

The consensus of ex pat Irish here today seemed to be abject depression. They were talking about it in Butchers Block, the last Irish grocer in NYC.
Are there many YBIG members in Butcher's Block? I wouldn't take them seriously otherwise.

[tricky_colour]

I though I would take a look at things statistically

Shots per goal

O'Suarez 5.27
Long 6.3
Coleman 5
Brady 2.56
Walters 10
O'Shea 2.2 :)
Meyler 4.5
Ireland 2.1 ;)

I have not taken into account sub appearance as I was not sure how to deal with them, Stephen Ireland has a lot of them.
However there seems maybe to be a case for playing Ireland Brady and O Shea up front.

However Longs finishing is not that much worse then Suarez's.

Also you may have good looking stats simply becasue you never get into a position to miss!!

Just to throw in a few more:-
O'Messi 4.5
O'Ronaldo 10!!!!!!!!!! (the Irish Walters!!)
O'Rooney 5.8
O' Van Persie 5.8
O'Ronaldo 5.8 (stats from a different site)

So... for a striker Long's 6.3 is not that bad, and I don't think he takes penalties which squews(sp?) things a bit
however the ratio of about 5.8 seems to crop up a lot, not far off Longs 6.3 so you can
expect to see him miss 6 for every one he scores, and it is pretty unlikely he will improve on that
as he is 'up there with the best' or thereabouts.

Not too sure what to make of all that but I thought I would throw it out there,
Squarez gets a lot of goals because he has a lot of shots, but then LIverpool
concede a lot of goals too.

I should add that Walters stats and some others are just from this season so there is very high margin
of error there as there was with Ronaldo's first stat, I think he missed a few penalties.

One final thought, Long's one goal from 3 shots is actually brilliant!!!!!!!!!!

[SkStu]

I think people are being harsh on Long. Not sure why he's so maligned here. He is a smashing all round player who gets himself into great positions but misses some chances. Not perfect of course but he's an excellent starting option for us to have both now and when Keane is gone. Give him a break!

[DeLorean]

He's not being maligned... a perceived flaw in his game is being discussed rationally. Nobody is saying, "to hell with that Long, he couldn't finish his dinner". As far as I have seen, everybody agrees he's a smashing player but it's a shame he can't be a bit more clinical, as he's clearly got the ability to take more chances than he does.

[SwanVsDalton]

First and foremost, I haven't been beating Murphy's drum at all, unless you call linking articles about him "beating his drum".

Taken from a three minute forum search...


Daryl Murphy is streets ahead of Adam Rooney in terms of ability, as their respective experiences in The Championship have proven; and as I have said, 1 in 3 as a striker and experience of playing in several positions at the highest level stands him in good stead for another run at International level.


Why not just call up Daryl Murphy?


He can't possibly be any worse than Cox or Walters. He has Premier League experience and has spent the majority of his English career playing for Top 12 standard Championship teams. His goalscoring record is pretty good when you take into account that he has played on the wing in approximately half of his PL and Championship games. So if O'Neill doesn't play him as an orthodox striker, he won't look lost like Walters and Cox do when they play there.

I'm happy with his call-up. On form, athletic, strong, versatile and good in the air.


Can't see Keane, Doyle, Long, Stokes, Walters or Cox being dropped for Serbia to accommodate McGoldrick.

I would have said Cox a few months ago but he's playing at a good level at the moment.

Penny for the thoughts of Daryl Murphy.

Maybe you wouldn't call that drum-beating, but when a poster brings up a player repeatedly (from pre-squad announcement to during the match), then I think it's justified for anyone to say 'hmmm, I think TOWK rates Daryl Murphy'. It's was particularly noticeable to me because I don't rate him. ;)

It's fine you know, if you like the player - no problem. But your posting goes beyond merely reporting what Murphy's saying.

As for the rest of your post, I don't agree but that's largely been gone over. In terms of movement, I think in most games Walters runs and constant availability for the ball allows Robbie/Shane/whoever to get an extra bit of space in behind. Walters likes to show short or wide, he (usually) is able to hold the ball up and give the other striker space to move into. I also think he's a mite smarter, as a player, than most give him credit for. If you disagree, well that's fine too.

I'd have been happy to see Stokes come on, and I'd agree with anyone who was a bit horrified by the prospect of Walters and Murphy together. Strange one. Maybe, as someone mentioned, this court case was affecting him.

On the Doyle front, I'd have him in the squad. Five strikers if we can afford it - Robbie, Shane, Doyle, Walters, Stokes. But there's a huge question mark as to whether he'll ever be effective as he once was. And if O'Neill and Keane decide to go forward with a one-up-front attack, then five strikers (and Doyle) in a squad might be bankrupt.