Club budgets 2014

[SeanDrog]

Drogs budget 2014

I am curious - it seems to be generally communicated that the budget is going to be lower next season.

Last year we where in three cup finals (extra revenue which I presume wasn't in the budget). I haven't heard that we went into the red this year , so why a reduced budget?

I can only guess it is in reaction to lower crowds last season but if that's the case should the reaction not be to push for bigger crowds ? Surely the low crowds should be seen as an opportunity to increase revenues via better marketing etc rather than just shrinking our budget.

Using that logic we should build in no income from gates just to be safe.

If it is in response to the crowds then it has the feel of trying to apply austerity to get us out of a recession and most of us know how that's working out.

Note: I'm not advocating crazy spending, more alike to a growth strategy (rather than austerity)

[MiniMourinho]

Simple one that. The extra prize money from cup finals accounted for the short fall in gate receipts this year? But you can't rely on that again next year hence budget has to be cut. In any case the prize money for competitions like the FAI Cup is so poor that if you don't win it you'd just about scrape going to it without losing money!

I know your not advocating over-spending but you cant take any gamble at all when the club isn't funded or backed by someone with a blank chequebook.

[SeanDrog]

I hear what you are saying but it feels like last seasons poor gates are now taken as our real gate income level whereas I would view them as a freak year. And therefore we are reducing our budget based on these figures.

Another option would be to take the average gates from a 2-3 season period rather than one season. Then back this target up with a marketing drive to get bums on seats. It feels as if the attitude is "what turns up turns up - it's not something we can impact on".

My fear would be we reduce budgets coz of one seasons poor gates, this weakens the team and results leading to even less gates and then a lower budget etc

Now I know I'm looking at this from the outside and might be unaware of initiatives in the pipeline so forgive me of any ignorance in that regard.

[MiniMourinho]

Our gates have been consistently bad for at least three years. They were slightly worse last year. You also simply have to budget based on the here and now. A 2-3 year average could be unrepresentative of the current reality. In terms of marketing and a big push, the club have been saying for ages that they need more people to get involved. They simply don't have the time to do any more than keep the club going. As I urged you on the other thread. If you can volunteer time and have the expertise you should get involved and be the person to make the difference.

You never know I might even be able to get you on the board with me. We could take over the world you, me and lollymcd! ;-)

[SeanDrog]

Rofl .....

[White Horse]

I know a few lapsed Drogheda fans and the E15 entrance fee was a factor.

There's not a lot of money about these days.

[SeanDrog]

I know it doesn't help the cause - that's for sure. But I suppose for the club it's a major decision to reduce to 10e but risk no rise in gates.

[SeanDrog]

MiniM I'll email the followus email

Let's see what we can do

[nigel-harps1954]

€15 euro is far too much for Drogheda to be charging into games with a support base like they have. €12 should be plenty there if they're unsure about going as low as 10 quid.

As for reducing the budget, 2008 probably still sticks hard in the memory for overspending. Better off living within their means and sitting bottom half of the table than overspending trying to push for Europe.

[Charlie Darwin]

€15 euro is far too much for Drogheda to be charging into games with a support base like they have. €12 should be plenty there if they're unsure about going as low as 10 quid.
Clubs with low support bases should be more likely to charge high prices as the marginal cost of a reduction is much more severe. It's different in the first division obviously because the standard is lower, but if you're in the Premier Division you can afford to charge Premier Division prices. If they got relegated, they wouldn't be charging €15, but Sligo Rovers are a much bigger draw than Wexford Youths no matter how you spin it.

[Lim till i die]

Dropping from fifteen to a tenner would be insanity for any club.

Simple sums - would crowds improve by the FIFTY percent needed just to break even on the idea??

They would in their ring.

[Longfordian]

Shels charging fifteen in the First is hands down the worst value in the league.

[White Horse]

Dropping from fifteen to a tenner would be insanity for any club.

Simple sums - would crowds improve by the FIFTY percent needed just to break even on the idea??

They would in their ring.

The alternative is a slow death though, an ever dwindling number of fans.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is that what they charged in the first, or is it what they plan to? I thought they increased the price when they got promoted, but I might be remembering wrong. It's a cost/benefit every team has to make, but generally prices are sticky going downwards rather than upwards. It's a bit different in England where TV money accounts for so much of their revenue, but in Ireland you live and die by your gate receipts.

[Straightstory]

I presumed (maybe wrongly) that every club in the Premier Division charges 15 euro admission?
Here's a very good piece from the Drogheda United website by Roisin Philips - one of the most articulate people involved in running a club in the LOI.
http://www.droghedaunited.ie/news/post.php?s=2013-11-06-open-letter-to-all-supporters

[Dodge]

I presumed (maybe wrongly) that every club in the Premier Division charges 15 euro admission?


Dundalk and Cork are cheaper. LTID is spot on though. Clubs have a decent grasp of their fan base. There's x amount of people willing to pay full price and a drop in price won't get near enough new people in to cover that shortfall. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

BTW anyone who encourages their board to increase their club's budget after they finish in 8th position and appoint a rookie manager is crazy too.

Cups draws are complete flukes. They can't be the basis for any rational budget planning

[Mr A]

**Mod Hat On**
Made this a general thread- this is the league forum so threads on each clubs budget will cause too much clutter.
**Pirate hat on**
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

[White Horse]

I presume Shamrock Rovers will have the highest budget this year. Who will have the lowest? Perhaps Bray, though there are rumous of Drogheda slashing theirs. I wonder how the rest of the clubs rank.

[Jofspring]

Have heard ours is being reduced from last season.

[A face]

I hope ours is being reduced as well, that or there is something done to increase attendance (or other forms of revenue)

[Acer]

I presume Shamrock Rovers will have the highest budget this year. Who will have the lowest? Perhaps Bray, though there are rumous of Drogheda slashing theirs. I wonder how the rest of the clubs rank.

Drogheda budget is 3-4k.

Promotional activity in Drogheda was non-existent last season. Rumours are circulating that that will change this year though so hopefully we'll see an increase in attendance figures.

[oriel]

I would assume there will be a modest increase in the budget with Dundalk for 2014. There will also probably be a slight increase on the admission too. We have been charging €10 into the ground for at least 2 seasons now. I dont think it will go to €15, possibly 12, not sure what they'll do on the stand (€15)

This might further help increase crowds though, and possibly gates, as adults accompanying them in will be paying.

http://www.dundalkfc.com/dundalk-fc-announce-free-primary-school-season-tickets/

[oriel]

Drogs budget 2014


Last year we where in three cup finals (extra revenue which I presume wasn't in the budget). I haven't heard that we went into the red this year , so why a reduced budget?



Also you need to factor in the participation money from Uefa re the EL, 90k-100k less rental costs of Tallaght and travel exp to Sweden, call it 70k?? Would have been paid middle of this year, but obviously wont be incoming in 2014.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Ours is down 20% this year

[White Horse]

I would assume there will be a modest increase in the budget with Dundalk for 2014. There will also probably be a slight increase on the admission too. We have been charging €10 into the ground for at least 2 seasons now. I dont think it will go to €15, possibly 12, not sure what they'll do on the stand (€15)

This might further help increase crowds though, and possibly gates, as adults accompanying them in will be paying.

http://www.dundalkfc.com/dundalk-fc-announce-free-primary-school-season-tickets/

Great to see Liam Burns acting as schools co-ordinator. Going around the schools in the town and surrounding area, giving the kids a presentation on the club, and then signing them up to the junior supporters club (with a free season ticket).

That'll put a fair amount of pressure on the parents to bring them.

[Acer]

I would assume there will be a modest increase in the budget with Dundalk for 2014. There will also probably be a slight increase on the admission too. We have been charging €10 into the ground for at least 2 seasons now. I dont think it will go to €15, possibly 12, not sure what they'll do on the stand (€15)

This might further help increase crowds though, and possibly gates, as adults accompanying them in will be paying.

http://www.dundalkfc.com/dundalk-fc-announce-free-primary-school-season-tickets/


Are Dundalk offering 52 week contracts? I was under the impression that the Dundalk budget has increased considerably.

I like the primary school idea, it's innovative, and you would hope that the adults accompanying them would boost the numbers paying in.

[Louth4sam]

Are Dundalk offering 52 week contracts? I was under the impression that the Dundalk budget has increased considerably.


The only one I've heard of on a 52 week contract is Towell and Fyffes are subsidising this. Not sure of percentage.
I'd be surprised if our budget hasn't increased but doubt it has considerably. A lot of our players signed as rookies or unknowns and established themselves this year, it's safe to assume we would need to offer improved contracts to keep them.

[White Horse]

Are Dundalk offering 52 week contracts? I was under the impression that the Dundalk budget has increased considerably.

I like the primary school idea, it's innovative, and you would hope that the adults accompanying them would boost the numbers paying in.

Richie Towell is reputed to have signed a 52 week contract. However, there is no confimation of this. Whether any other players have been offered 52 week terms is unclear. The club have not yet explained how much the budget is to increase by. There is no doubt it is increasing. Sponsorship revenue and attendances are on the up. Ticket prices, which have been the lowest in the division , are rumoured to be increasing by 20%.

I like the schools idea too. Rather than expecting parents to get their kids interested, the club are doing it through the schools.

[Yossarian]

I would assume there will be a modest increase in the budget with Dundalk for 2014. There will also probably be a slight increase on the admission too. We have been charging €10 into the ground for at least 2 seasons now. I dont think it will go to €15, possibly 12, not sure what they'll do on the stand (€15)

This might further help increase crowds though, and possibly gates, as adults accompanying them in will be paying.

http://www.dundalkfc.com/dundalk-fc-announce-free-primary-school-season-tickets/

I think the increase should be to €15 for the ground. We will not be able to sustain the budget we have on an admission price of €10 for the ground. I would imagine any decrease in the crowd would be of a size that it would still be viable to increase the cost to €15. I would hope if the price is increased to this then the increase in season ticket costs would be proportionately smaller and encourage more people to buy a season ticket.
Also on a practical note, having the cost at €12 or €13 makes it a bit messy on match days with regards to change. That's a minor point obviously though.

[White Horse]

I think the increase should be to €15 for the ground. We will not be able to sustain the budget we have on an admission price of €10 for the ground.

I would go €12 for the ground and €18 for the stand. This leaves potential for a further increase to €15 and €20 in future years. We have to be careful not to price people out of going.

[Yossarian]

I would go €12 for the ground and €18 for the stand. This leaves potential for a further increase to €15 and €20 in future years. We have to be careful not to price people out of going.

I agree to a point about not pricing everyone out, but we pay €15 into every other ground in the league. The 1200 who went to Inchicore had no problem paying it then.

[oriel]

I heard 20 into stand and 15 into ground, but I hope that's wrong, as its far too exp. I would increase ground to 12 and leave Stand as it is. €15 should be the max in my view to watch LOI football.

Towell is on a 52 week contract, all other players signed up will start getting paid on 1 Feb, as we pay 1 Feb to 31 Oct for majority of players.

Extra revenue this year will be 100k per round in EL, so thats max of 2 rounds I would say, might not even get past round 1, but we did last time, depends on the draw ofcourse.

[mcgonigle]

I would go €12 for the ground and €18 for the stand. This leaves potential for a further increase to €15 and €20 in future years. We have to be careful not to price people out of going.

I would offer a discount to 500 club members (those who are not entitled to the free season ticket) as an incentive to sign up.

[Fivesilver]

Drogheda budget is 3-4k.

That's not a lot when it's spread out over the season.

[Ezeikial]

Are Dundalk offering 52 week contracts? I was under the impression that the Dundalk budget has increased considerably.


I don't know what Richie Towell or any other player is on, but from a clubs perspective €500 a week over 52 weeks is the same outlay as €650 over 40 weeks

[Acer]

I don't know what Richie Towell or any other player is on, but from a clubs perspective €500 a week over 52 weeks is the same outlay as €650 over 40 weeks

That's right...
I don't understand your point, are you saying that a player on €650 would drop his wage to €500 pw on the condition that he got that amount for 52 weeks? Unlikely. It's much more likely that he'd want the €650pw for 52 weeks.

[Yossarian]

That's right...
I don't understand your point, are you saying that a player on €650 would drop his wage to €500 pw on the condition that he got that amount for 52 weeks? Unlikely. It's much more likely that he'd want the €650pw for 52 weeks.

Of course the player would 'want' that but it doesn't mean he'd get it. I think it's fair assumption that a player will take whatever wage he was offered for 40 weeks and get it spread over the full calander year if it was substantial enough to make it worthwhile.

[micls]

Dundalk and Cork are cheaper. LTID is spot on though. Clubs have a decent grasp of their fan base. There's x amount of people willing to pay full price and a drop in price won't get near enough new people in to cover that shortfall. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

BTW anyone who encourages their board to increase their club's budget after they finish in 8th position and appoint a rookie manager is crazy too.

We're going to 15 next year I think.

That budget comment is spot on.

[White Horse]

http://www.dundalkfc.com/2014-season-ticket-details/

Dundalk have announced season ticket and admission prices for the 2014 season. Ground ticket prices increasing by 50% to E15, and stand ticket prices increasing by 33% to E20.

If Dundalk can hold attendance levels, this should give the club the opportunity to increase the budget by around 40%.

[Acer]

Of course the player would 'want' that but it doesn't mean he'd get it. I think it's fair assumption that a player will take whatever wage he was offered for 40 weeks and get it spread over the full calander year if it was substantial enough to make it worthwhile.

It wouldn't make sense from either the club or player's perspective to spread the same amount of money over 52 weeks when it can be transferred in 40 weeks. Of course if the offer is much higher than what he can get elsewhere, than it's not a problem.


http://www.dundalkfc.com/2014-season-ticket-details/

Dundalk have announced season ticket and admission prices for the 2014 season. Ground ticket prices increasing by 50% to E15, and stand ticket prices increasing by 33% to E20.

If Dundalk can hold attendance levels, this should give the club the opportunity to increase the budget by around 40%.

It makes sense to bring the minimum price up to €15 but €20 is too high for a lOI match. The old Drogs board tried to pull that one after we won the league and it did serious damage. Hopefully the Dundalk board see sense.

[gufc2000]

http://www.dundalkfc.com/2014-season-ticket-details/

Dundalk have announced season ticket and admission prices for the 2014 season. Ground ticket prices increasing by 50% to E15, and stand ticket prices increasing by 33% to E20.

If Dundalk can hold attendance levels, this should give the club the opportunity to increase the budget by around 40%.
€20 is a bit high at this day in age, €15 would be more than adequate. I appreciate ye want to increase the budget but that seems over-priced for a game.

Increasing prices isn't a big selling point for fans, expectations are going to be far higher from now on. No disrespect, but €20 to watch UCD & Bray isn't very appealing. You'll get the regulars but it'd be hard to attract the floating fans

[White Horse]

It makes sense to bring the minimum price up to €15 but €20 is too high for a lOI match. The old Drogs board tried to pull that one after we won the league and it did serious damage. Hopefully the Dundalk board see sense.

I agree. €20 is too high.

The season ticket prices for the stand are only going up by 5% to €200 but expecting a casual fan to pay €20 to see a LOI game is too much.

[Conroy]

What a balls up!

[oriel]

Season ticket general stand at €200 is great value.

€15 into ground, just ok

€20 into stand. Bad move.

[Ezeikial]

I don't know what Richie Towell or any other player is on, but from a clubs perspective €500 a week over 52 weeks is the same outlay as €650 over 40 weeks


That's right...
I don't understand your point, are you saying that a player on €650 would drop his wage to €500 pw on the condition that he got that amount for 52 weeks? Unlikely. It's much more likely that he'd want the €650pw for 52 weeks.

The point is very straightforward - it's the cost of the contract that impacts on the clubs budget, not whether it is 40 / 44 / 52 weeks


It wouldn't make sense from either the club or player's perspective to spread the same amount of money over 52 weeks when it can be transferred in 40 weeks. Of course if the offer is much higher than what he can get elsewhere, than it's not a problem.


While it makes little, if any difference to club, it can be significant to the player involved. In most cases the player would be better off drawing social welfare for 12 weeks and take up a 40 week contract. That said I know of some specific cases where the lower amount over the longer period was the player's preferred option

[Acer]

The point is very straightforward - it's the cost of the contract that impacts on the clubs budget, not whether it is 40 / 44 / 52 weeks

Of course.


While it makes little, if any difference to club, it can be significant to the player involved. In most cases the player would be better off drawing social welfare for 12 weeks and take up a 40 week contract. That said I know of some specific cases where the lower amount over the longer period was the player's preferred option

Exactly, that's my point. If Richie Towell (example) was offered €650 pw for 40 weeks, than it's highly unlikely that he'd opt for the €500 pw over 52 weeks. The 52 week wage would have to result in a much higher total to justify him not taking the amount over 40 weeks and, as you point out, claim the social welfare for the remaining 12 weeks. That's why changing to 52 week contracts impact so heavily on a club's budget because it obviously results in an increase in wages.

[Ezeikial]

Exactly, that's my point. If Richie Towell (example) was offered €650 pw for 40 weeks, than it's highly unlikely that he'd opt for the €500 pw over 52 weeks. The 52 week wage would have to result in a much higher total to justify him not taking the amount over 40 weeks and, as you point out, claim the social welfare for the remaining 12 weeks. That's why changing to 52 week contracts impact so heavily on a club's budget because it obviously results in an increase in wages.

You are making the dangerous assumption that all players are sensible and logical.

[Charlie Darwin]

While it makes little, if any difference to club, it can be significant to the player involved. In most cases the player would be better off drawing social welfare for 12 weeks and take up a 40 week contract. That said I know of some specific cases where the lower amount over the longer period was the player's preferred option
I'd imagine it makes a difference to the clubs too, as they'd be paying social insurance for 52 weeks rather than 40. It wouldn't be a huge amount of money in the grand scheme, but the margins are small in this league.

[Neish]

€20 is very steep. €15 should be the very most even that is a bit steep if an adult is bringing 2 or 3 kids to the game.

It will be very hard to attract new fans to the club if they are paying €20.

Harps increased price an adult terrace ticket from €10 - €15 a few years back and I saw many people turn and walk away when asked for €15

[nigel-harps1954]

Awful form from Dundalk to increase the prices so highly. Terrible prices. Can't imagine many neutrals wanting to pay 20 quid into a League of Ireland game. You'll get into many English Premier League grounds much cheaper.