A 7-team league First Division Next Year

[nr637]

If Galway Utd are accepted for next season, is it the FAI's plan to operate a second division of only (7) seven teams?

Because there does not seem to be any other clubs in the country capable or prepared to become members of this arrangement.

Tralee, Mullingar, Monaghan again, Kildare again, Kilkenny again, no more Dublin clubs....... so where are all the new invites coming from to make up a 10 or 12 team league?

Any other options?

[RiffRaff]

Surely even the FAI would think a 7 team league isnt practical? The last few seasons seem to be the first time I remember when non league clubs havent been coming forward to try and get into the league, even teams like Tralee and Mullingar who were keen before.

[JC_GUFC]

I know it's not quite the same but the u-19 Regional Divisions are 2 divisions of 5 teams.

I think there may be a few reserve teams involved - I don't really have much problem with this - if Shamrock Rovers, Sligo and St Pat's for example wanted to enter teams I don't really see the problem. What would the difference be between them and Salthill Devon who have virtually no support?

[Charlie Darwin]

The reserve thing is probably unworkable - it's been floated to a few clubs by all accounts but I'm not sure there's much appetite for it. It would gut the U19 league for a start.

[JC_GUFC]

The reserve thing is probably unworkable - it's been floated to a few clubs by all accounts but I'm not sure there's much appetite for it. It would gut the U19 league for a start.

It would have given Eamon Zayed a place to play! ;)

You're right though, there are some problems and I suppose if a player who is too old for the U19 but isn't good enough for the senior squad isn't really much use for the 'A' side or whatever they'll call it, so there may be limited interest but if some clubs do want to enter a second team I wouldn't see it as an issue.

[culloty82]

The reserve thing is probably unworkable - it's been floated to a few clubs by all accounts but I'm not sure there's much appetite for it. It would gut the U19 league for a start.

I suspect it would only work if done in a "A" Championship style format, which would perhaps encourage Tralee/Kerry, Carlow and Fanad to return, a few seasons enabling them to adjust ultimately to a single-division second tier.

[gufcfan]

I suppose if a player who is too old for the U19 but isn't good enough for the senior squad isn't really much use for the 'A' side or whatever they'll call it

I wouldn't agree with that... imo many footballers that make it to LOI u19 level haven't had the opportunity to develop themselves to their potential and as only very few make it through to the senior ranks every season, I think it is a huge waste to basically discard them at this point.

Until the horror show that is youth football in Ireland is sorted out in some way, we'll continue to have this problem.

[redobit]

I know it's not quite the same but the u-19 Regional Divisions are 2 divisions of 5 teams.

I think there may be a few reserve teams involved - I don't really have much problem with this - if Shamrock Rovers, Sligo and St Pat's for example wanted to enter teams I don't really see the problem. What would the difference be between them and Salthill Devon who have virtually no support?

Id be shocked if we entered a team, We haven't the finances or the number of players to have a Reserve team. We didn't even enter the Ulster Senior League at the start of the season (rightly so) when we were offered it.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

I wouldn't agree with that... imo many footballers that make it to LOI u19 level haven't had the opportunity to develop themselves to their potential and as only very few make it through to the senior ranks every season, I think it is a huge waste to basically discard them at this point.

Until the horror show that is youth football in Ireland is sorted out in some way, we'll continue to have this problem.

They can go and develop at another club then. It's not like its only LOI or nothing. I can only base it on us but entering a reserve team would be pure and utter madness from a financial point of view. It's a struggle enough to keep one team afloat.

[JC_GUFC]

I wouldn't agree with that... imo many footballers that make it to LOI u19 level haven't had the opportunity to develop themselves to their potential and as only very few make it through to the senior ranks every season, I think it is a huge waste to basically discard them at this point.

Until the horror show that is youth football in Ireland is sorted out in some way, we'll continue to have this problem.

I didn't mean they wouldn't have a future in LoI but to me it wouldn't make much sense for a club to keep on a guy for their reserve squad if they didn't feel he was good enough for their 25-man first team squad.

[legendz]

I thought there were a few clubs interested in having a second team? I can understand some peoples apathy towards it but I'd be a supporter of it. The current structure has U19 level and then senior level. Premier clubs who wish to field a team for players out of U19's but not at Premier level should be accommodated. The first division is the only level in between for players not ready for the Premier division. I think there should be restrictions with it i.e. only 3 over the age of 23 players in a match-day squad of the B team. A team would have to be in the Premier for at least one year before they could enter a B team.
If Limerick for example had a B team in the First division next year, I'd take in games against the likes of Longford, Shels, Waterford, Galway and Harps. Objection from supporters of those clubs to B teams is understandable. Progressive clubs should be supported. It'd be a brave move for any club to enter a B team with costs etc. If a club is willing to do that, why stop them? At other levels of the game there are B and even C teams. Clubs should be allowed to develop players out of the U19's below Premier level. Long-term, I'd like to see the Premier division expanded.

[NeverFeltBetter]

No way Limerick will have a second team in FD next year.

[citybone]

Cork City had been looking to fielding a reserve team in the Munster Senior League but the Munster Senior League didn't want semi pro's playing against their clubs. but First Division would be a good idea for Cork City and travel costs would be difficult but players who play Reserve and not first team could be ametuer. The only thing is City could just loan players out too Cobh and save on cost.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The cost is just too much when travel and the like is worked in. I doubt any team will actually be that willing to give it a try.

Lessening the burden of entry is the only way to go here, if the FAI actually wants to keep the FD viable.

[nigel-harps1954]

When you take into account the travel costs alone, any club would be mad to want to join. I know that it's absolutely crippling Harps, even with a low playing budget, because our shortest journey last season was Longford - 161km. People wonder why we're lobbying so much for a one tier league.

Next season, we'll be looking at;

Cobh - 425km
Galway - 230km
Longford - 161km
Shelbourne - 225km
Waterford - 390km
Wexford - 360km

Absolutely insane amount of travel. All this has to be budgeted for, which leaves very little left for a first team squad budget. The loss of a Galway trip and Athlone make it that little bit more difficult, considering each of the away trips have to be done twice. A southern team like Cork reserves would have a lot less travelling to do, as each of those trips are roughly within a two and a half hour drive.

[Macy]

Players too old for the U19's but not good enough for the first team of a premier division team, just join a first division club. So not only will be the first division be made a mockery by having reserve teams, the "positive" aspect of it will actually deny the proper clubs players too. Sounds great, looking forward to next season already...

[Bray Head]

I think a Regionalised First Division is the only answer by bringing in the top non league teams - A First Div North & First Div South with the winners of each playing off for title.
How can Finn harps keep going when they face having to go to Wexford, Waterford & Cobh 3 or 4 times to each place next year.

[bluewhitearmy]

When you take into account the travel costs alone, any club would be mad to want to join. I know that it's absolutely crippling Harps, even with a low playing budget, because our shortest journey last season was Longford - 161km. People wonder why we're lobbying so much for a one tier league.

Next season, we'll be looking at;

Cobh - 425km
Galway - 230km
Longford - 161km
Shelbourne - 225km
Waterford - 390km
Wexford - 360km

Absolutely insane amount of travel. All this has to be budgeted for, which leaves very little left for a first team squad budget. The loss of a Galway trip and Athlone make it that little bit more difficult, considering each of the away trips have to be done twice. A southern team like Cork reserves would have a lot less travelling to do, as each of those trips are roughly within a two and a half hour drive.


Wouldnt ye still have to go to all those places if it was one tier?

[peadar1987]

Wouldnt ye still have to go to all those places if it was one tier?

Yes, but they'd have to go there fewer times.

I think we need a single-tier league, and a commitment to it from the FAI for 5 seasons while they try and put together a decent, workable plan for stopping the steady stream of clubs going to the wall. Release it in good time (after 4 seasons at the very latest) so everyone knows what they're playing for.

[bluewhitearmy]

Yes, but they'd have to go there fewer times.

I think we need a single-tier league, and a commitment to it from the FAI for 5 seasons while they try and put together a decent, workable plan for stopping the steady stream of clubs going to the wall. Release it in good time (after 4 seasons at the very latest) so everyone knows what they're playing for.

They would still have Limerick,Cork and the Dublin clubs. The only ones that would be much closer then Longford are Derry and Sligo so the travel expenses wouldnt exactly be coming down a huge amount.

[legendz]

I think a Regionalised First Division is the only answer by bringing in the top non league teams - A First Div North & First Div South with the winners of each playing off for title.
How can Finn harps keep going when they face having to go to Wexford, Waterford & Cobh 3 or 4 times to each place next year.
I'd have agreed with you but I think that boat was missed around the time the A Championship ended. That format of regionalised second tier was taken with the U19 league. Fanad, Castlebar, Carlow, Tralee and Tullamore have all drifted away back to where they were, enthusiasm to join the league has faded. The option are single tier or brave reserve teams considering the costs outlined.

[gael353]

stick with the seven and dont leave any juniior teams or county teams in as we had running with the A division a few years ago. Non league teams finishing 4/5/6/7 getting automatic promotion to the first division was nuts. Hence the problem there are now trying to solve in Galway

[gufcfan]

In fairness, neither Galway club would have been promoted if licencing was applied properly.

[Macy]

They would still have Limerick,Cork and the Dublin clubs. The only ones that would be much closer then Longford are Derry and Sligo so the travel expenses wouldnt exactly be coming down a huge amount.
They'd have more income though. Some bigger gates, more exposure etc.

I don't have a problem with a regionalised first, but there would have to be proper promotion opportunities. Top of each regional division going up, and then the 2 in second into a play off for either promotion or a promotion/ relegation playoff. BUT I still don't believe there's any/ enough clubs wanting to step up though. As things stand, we can't get one club to step up for the first, so it's pie in the sky to talk about the 9 - 11 new clubs needed to have two regional divisions.

I don't see a way forward except one division. The ever reducing first is just killing clubs slowly, and it'll get to the point that there's one division anyway (although at this stage I think the FAI would try and run a 4 team first). Bite the bullet now, and there's a base to add to and go back to two divisions in a pretty short time frame. It'll be hard to resurrect clubs that bail out.

[Sam_Heggy]

A regionalised League would be brilliant.

Northern Division:

Finn Harps
Longford
Shels

Southern Division:

Wexford
Galway
Cobh
Waterford

Job done, that's the perfect solution....... Play each other 10/12 times a season.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Obviously the expectation is that a regionalised league would be more attractive to other clubs, who would flesh out the numbers.

[Macy]

Obviously the expectation is that a regionalised league would be more attractive to other clubs, who would flesh out the numbers.
It's the expectation, but is there any real evidence?

[Mr A]

Is there any real evidence that decisions related to Irish football have been based on any real evidence?

[peadar1987]

It's the expectation, but is there any real evidence?

Sort of thing the FAI need to study properly, so as I said, 5 year commitment to a limited-size single-tier league, and in the intervening time, canvas clubs, leagues and supporters' associations with the intention of coming up with a structure that would allow for a regionalised first division.

[A face]

A regionalised League would be brilliant.

Northern Division:

Finn Harps
Longford
Shels

Southern Division:

Wexford
Galway
Cobh
Waterford

Job done, that's the perfect solution....... Play each other 10/12 times a season.

Have one series of games with everyone initially, then split regionally as suggested but with more teams and then the last series of games have everyone play each other again. Would that work?

[Mr A]

No way. Especially as the two groups may be of very different strengths

[nigel-harps1954]

Wouldnt ye still have to go to all those places if it was one tier?

But only once, with local derbies in the middle of them breaking up the journeys. Very simple really.


They would still have Limerick,Cork and the Dublin clubs. The only ones that would be much closer then Longford are Derry and Sligo so the travel expenses wouldnt exactly be coming down a huge amount.

Dublin is grand. That's only 3 hours and a good road. If we only had to go to Dublin every second week there'd be no complaints at all.



Have one series of games with everyone initially, then split regionally as suggested but with more teams and then the last series of games have everyone play each other again. Would that work?

This would be a solution in an ideal world, except for the regionalised part. Find one more club. Have all teams play each other once, split it halfway into a 10 team Premier/First. Halfway through the season you have your relegation solution, with all the mid table teams fighting it out..and you have the same scenario all over again at the end of the season.
Everyone gets the big teams at least once in the season, bigger gates, more revenue, a fighting chance of survival.

[citybone]

No way. Especially as the two groups may be of very different strengths

Thats the problem in the MLS and why they need a playoff system at the end. I find playoff for league champions odd.

[Longfordian]

Is there any real evidence that decisions related to Irish football have been based on any real evidence?

If a LOI game is played and there's nobody there to see it does the league actually exist? Discuss.

[gufcfan]

If a LOI game is played and there's nobody there to see it does the league actually exist? Discuss.

[Insert Drom joke here]

[Longfordian]

[Insert Drom joke here]

Drom..shyeah as if that's a real place.

[Terry]

[Insert Drom joke here]

Second best club in Galway for the past 2 years

[sadloserkid]

If a LOI game is played and there's nobody there to see it does the league actually exist? Discuss.

A friend of mine claimed to be at a Monaghan-Kildare game a few years back...

[Schumi]

Second best club in Galway for the past 2 years
Last three years.

[bluemovie]

Tralee Dynamos must be the most likely eighth club in the division. I can't see anyone else coming in or back in (Monaghan, Fanad, etc) and, while an eight team league is brutal and is killing clubs, it's the absolute last threshold for a viable league - seven is unworkable. With seven teams, playing each other four times each would mean just 24 games. 12 home gates isn't enough to sustain a club. Playing each other five times (making 30 games) seems just as bad as there could be three trips up to Harps and you'd be trying to drag fans out for three home games against some teams.

I reckon all clubs apart from Mervue/Salthill will make it through to next season. Shels and Bohs might be in trouble, but they'll survive. Maybe I'm being over-optimistic, but I'd like to think the FAI aren't kicking two clubs out and only bringing one (Galway) in. Given that Mervue, Salthill and to a lesser extent Cobh have been allowed to ignore minimum licensing standards in recent years, then surely Tralee can be dragged into the First Division????

[bluemovie]

No way Limerick will have a second team in FD next year.

Ye spent long enough in the First Division the last time without volunteering to get back involved in it!

[gufc2000]

FAI had the chance to bring in Tralee along with Cobh at the beginning of 2012, and said they didn't meet licencing criteria. Hard to see how Tralee have met that criteria and sustained their interest in joining in the meantime

[NeverFeltBetter]

I thought Tralee had abandoned any hopes of being an LOI club after being rejected last year? Didn't that basically sour them on the prospect? And there was trouble with the Kerry league afterwards wasn't there?

[bluemovie]

They might fudge them in. Sure Salthill and Mervue couldn't be said to have met licensing criteria and wasn't Cobh's debt fudged to get them in? I think Tralee would have had the momentum and interest to come in two seasons ago, but weren't allowed. You're right that the interest may have waned since then, but the FAI might have to have a rethink and provide them with motivation.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I would wager that the FAI has burned their bridges with Tralee, rightly or wrongly.

[Cuyahoga]

How about a Polish L.O.I team wearing the Polish colours targeting the large Polish community in Ireland. The bulk of the team would be polish nationals. They could play out of Tolka park and call themselves Polska FC... Just an idea.

[bluewhitearmy]

How about a Polish L.O.I team wearing the Polish colours targeting the large Polish community in Ireland. The bulk of the team would be polish nationals. They could play out of Tolka park and call themselves Polska FC... Just an idea.


This was actually talked about when Danny Drew was involved with Limerick if im not mistaken. It was while we were in Hogan Park. The plan was supposedly to takeoever Limerick and change it to that if i remember correctly. Im sure the likes of LTID and Gael would remember.

[Sam_Heggy]

There was talk a while back of Carlow IT entering the LOI. Not heard much about it in the past year or so.

[nigel-harps1954]

I recall, when Athlone IT built the new pitch and running track alongside the full size astro pitch, there was talk around the college they were planning to eventually break into League of Ireland football. Crazy talk at the time and it never materialised. Obviously the link with Athlone Town ended it anyway.

I think the idea behind a Polish, or an eastern European team playing in the league is actually a fantastic idea and could well attract a large following right across the country if it was based in the right area and marketed properly. Can't see it happening though.

[atfconline]

It was simply going to be their team playing in the A League, under the Athlone Town name.